northernjohn

It never ceases to amaze me how many people can take The Nation serious.

They have a record of taking things out of context and printing them in big type headlines and then ignoring them in the article. For all we know he was going to seize them and take them out for a cup of tea. Well four of them any how.

It doesn't even make sense to say those five were advising Yingluck. All they could do is back up her brothers orders.

These are serious times and other than sell news papers what is to be gained with allegations such as these? The proof that they are false is in the failure to report the whole article.

But some people are desperate to defend their position and will grab ojn to any thing. Fact or fiction makes no difference to them they are desperate to defend their preconceived ideas.

Let me remind all you farang posters. Some of us are here for several reasons. We all came from a country far away. We also have an option to go back as well. So what ever may happen to Thailand, we all still have a home elsewhere.

But for most Thais, do not have that option. Nor do they wish to go to another country. They want to make this home a home. Everyone here sees the corruption that this government has done and the blatant abuse that is going on. They see that the country is borrowing at an alarming rate. They see corruption as coming worst and worst. I am not saying it only happens with this government, but others as well. I think corruption has reached a point where corrupt people are stealing from corrupt people. And this will hurt future generations. The younger generations who are innocent and have no voice in the matter. Corruption has gotten so bad, that the govt. need a budget for corruption. Because if we allow the government to keep borrowing and not try to keep budget under control, we have just doomed the next generation. We are the caretaker of the next generation. No one in their right mind, knowing what this government has done can just stand idle so that the future generation will suffer because of our uncaring stance about protecting democracy for them. We enjoy today because others have protected us, now it's our turn to protect the future.

Corruption is a pyramide. It does not matter who is on the top of the pyramide Taksin, Suthep or anybody else. You can not destroy this pyramide by sitting at the Victory monument and waving flags. Poor people see it and that is why they vote for Taksin. If you want to change it, you have to educate them and give them economic freedom and wealth. It is a very hard task which may take several generations. Perhaps Suthep is one small step to that but he has to come to his senses and start talking to the opposite side. You can not just ignore the North. Imagine that Suthep wins and Reds send another 30,000 to Bangkok and shut it down. What is he going to do? He just did the same thing himself, right ?

I agree that Suthep must talk to the opposition.

What every one who says that is conveniently overlooking the fact that he is willing to and in fact has. He has how ever set a condition that must be met before he will talk with them again. If the opposition had a counter proposal other than let us win an election first I would love to hear it. I am quite sure well maybe a medium amount of sure that Suthep would agree to talk with them if they would allow for a election reform to be put in place before the next election.

I could be wrong on that but it would make a lot of sense to me. Then the commission or council putting the reforming propositions together would have a more clear idea of what the people want. Not that the people always want what is best for them. But it would be some guidelines that the people would have a voice in.

"....... but if there is an election then he will be in charge again undemocratically.

Why? Any decent political campaign manager would be wetting his pants at the thought of running a campaign against PTP with all the ammunition they'd given him. Why is the DP so cowardly and lazy that it prefers to throw its weight behind a thinly disguised coup rather than fight a winnable democratic election against a corrupt and incompetent administration?

In effectively spitting in the faces of the people whose votes they would need to win an any future election, the DP are basically signaling that they have no interest in winning fairly at the ballot box - ever. They're doing far more harm to the development of an adult democracy in Thailand than Thaksin ever has.

A good point but I don't think it's that simple.

In any country where voting takes place the majority of people will vote the same every time. It's the floating that make the difference. I get the feeling that in Thailand the number of floating voters is very small so you tend to get the same result with slightly differing numbers. Thailand is very polarised politically and there are accusations going around on both sides and with little chance of substantiating them. Those who dislike Thaksin seem to believe that he's running the country. There's no proof of this but it comes from so many sources including in the government and then there's visits by PTP members to him that there would seem to be some truth in it. I'm guessing that most pro government supporters either don't believe it and think its all lies from the Dems or don't care so they won't change their vote. They may well believe that Abhisit and Suthep ordered the army to go and kill protesters. That isn't the case but given that many posters on here don't seem aware of the ROE at the time a and continue to say they ordered the killings I'm assuming that many PTP voters are either not aware of what the rules were or even know what ROE are.

I was wondering whether here as in the UK members of the main parties sometimes vote against their own party either in government or in opposition. If they don't then it looks like they are just being controlled. I get the impression that it's very different here. My wife was very confused when I asked her if she could go to see her MP if she had a problem regardless of whether she voted for them. The impression I got was it was only possible if she were important and/or well connected.

I think you need to separate the apparent views of Suthep from those of many of the protesters. They want elections to vote for who represents them and not to have someone who wasn't elected running the country with an obsession with an amnesty.

Suthep seems to me to be good at getting people on the street. He can fire them up but don't think his plans from what I've seen will do achieve what's needed. I don't think anyone can do this in one go but hopefully these protest might start something moving amongst the more moderate people in parliament and the country.

As for the coup, Suthep may or may not want one and the same goes for the Democrats in general but I know Abhisit spoke out against the last one.

Over all I tend to agree with you. I am a little less sure on the polarization as the red shirts have not done so well in by elections. I think there are more loose votes out there than in previous elections. Also take into account that out of the last 10 years Thaksin has run the government and the people who support him are still dirt poor no change in their living conditions. Well the house hold debt is higher. I believe that is a direct result of making credit available who did not have the ability to pay it back. that is not a good thing to do. plus the cost of living is getting much higher.

I have spent a little time in a village in Issan two years ago. There was no Satellite dishes as the people could not afford them. The rice scheme is crumbling around them with rice farmers not receiving the money owed them. The family operated rice farms have been quiet about the price as with a raise in their payment for the rice every thing else went up and they are facing a time when there will be no place to store the rice they grow as the government can not sell it for the price they paid for it much less even break even on the cost per ton.

I for one would like to hear from the little farmers how they are doing. I hear the government loud and clear but I don't believe them.

If they can not make public the price they are getting for the rice I for one believe it is because of the loss they are taking on it.

Suthep seems to me to be good at getting people on the street. He can fire them up but don't think his plans from what I've seen will do achieve what's needed. I don't think anyone can do this in one go but hopefully these protest might start something moving amongst the more moderate people in parliament and the country.

I agree Suthep is getting the people out and firing them up. I also agree that it is not all going to happen in just one attempt. But it is a start that was very badly needed. It may take years but it will come about as a direct result of Suthep taking the first step where no one else dared speak out. It is not my belief that he will be a part of the final step. But for sure when all is over and done with Thailand will owe him a great deal of honor. My guess is one generation.

His past like every one on Thai Visa has parts that we will never talk about. He is no different than us for the past. It is what he is doing today against the conditions that prevail in Thailand today that counts.

I often wonder what is achieved my a large group group of people ,all with the same ideology, going to a stadium to hold a protest.

Seems to be a very Thai thing and probably good as if they were to descend on Thepae Gate for example, or heaven forbid, one of our shopping malls it would be total chaos.

There were 14 VIP buses packed with anti-government protestors (along with police escorts) that descended upon Central Festival yesterday afternoon. Fortunately, just as I was leaving. However, the police stopped anyone from exiting the mall for close to 20 minutes and traffic was backed up in the multi-level parking lot as far as they eye could see. I don't know why nobody could exit but it would have been a terrible time to have a fire.

Seems like a well organized, well funded affair. I wonder who's behind it.

Better still what do they think they are gaining by it.

As I see it they are grouping around each other to reassure them selves that they are right.

With out the constant group backing they are a very insecure individual.

Once again they point out the desperate need for education in Thailand. They gain absolutely nothing from others just derision. Yet they continue to interfere with the flow of life in others.

If they believe in what they say they stand for why do they not go to Bangkok where their support would mean some thing.

They remind me of several years ago when I was just visiting for the first time in Chiang Mai. I was staying at the Royal Lanna and there was a group of them gathered together in the parking lot no signs no speeches. Just standing there in the hot sun for several hours. There were police there to keep the peace. They were all inside the air conditioned lobby drinking free coffee and chatting with each other and other people.

It made no sense so I asked a friend what was going on. He informed me that the owner of the hotel was the son of a powerful politician who had stopped supporting Thaksin. Made no sense to me as they had no signs or speakers just a bunch of dumb people standing in the hot sun with red shirts on.

No surrender you can't negotiate withl a scorpion or snake

Well done Suphet. Notice difference between red shirt thugs in 2010 and this protest. So fat totally peaceful no burnings no guns with protestors just a very large group of determined people who are totally sick and tired of Taksin and his lot just doing whatever they want.

I never thought Suphet it stood a chance but whatever Taksin supporters here say just going by crowds he obviously has massive support. And before we get a barrage of BS about elected government democracy elections and rest it is obvious to anyone not blind that Taksin and his vile government are not wanted by a very large section of Thais of all walks of life.

To hold an election on 2^nd feb is pointless and will achieve nothing. It would not even result in a government even if Taksin got 100% of vote since os many wont vote and their cant be enough MPs anyway. Even if Taksin managed to disregard rules again and try ot form a parliament it simply would not be accepted by so many it oculd not function and Army will not intervene.

So only way pout is for Yingluk to resign and a interim new caretaker government not linked to Taksin take over for a few months while reforms are put in place. Then have an election without Taksin (or it simply wont work) and most would accept a voted government even one most red shirts would want provided Taksin was not involved.

The only other way out is an army coup or Taksin pays enough to start a real civil war which in his desperation he could well try however I dont think that will work and I cant see cowardly reds supporting in enough numbers and so hell have to rely on paid mercenaries.

Before Taksin tries to turn Thailand into a sort of Syria he should but wont do decent thing for sake of Thailand. Being vile coward he is and fact all he cares for is his own then that is not going to happen.

The only real solution to this is a coup. suthep does not want that either as he could not then start his dictatorship. suthep has lied too many times to all of you and you can not see it. When he was in the government he was just as corrupted as them all. You all need to wake up. If you want a dictatorship stay with him. If you want a democracy go else where.

In order for him to become a dictator he would need the backing of the army. He hasn't got that. In order for him to be Democratically elected he would need to be heading a party there is no such party.

He is just one man followed by millions of other single individuals with as is to be expected a number of them physically being able to support him. The cause he is leading is a desire to take a corrupt Democratically elected government out of power [if you can call a corrupt government democratic] and replace it with a democratically led government that is for the people not just one family.

In a Democracy is not the governments job to serve the people? Not one family.

What Thailand has now is a Democratic dictatorship. That is not what the constitution calls for. Granted there needs to be some changes in the constitution but changes to allow a democratically elected dictator are not one of them. Thailand is not some backward banana operated country. It is a country with a tremendous future provided it deals with the corruption that is its present guidelines. The changes must start with a completely non political review of the election laws. Only then will the people have a chance for an honest Democratically elected government.

I see no honest reason to oppose that idea. To oppose it means to continue to allow vote buying access to many votes in order to replace them with other votes. Also to continue to allow promises that are unattainable. Why would any one oppose these goals.

Corrupt or not,

more corrupt or less,

the fact is, she is the democratically elected PM,

what's wrong with that, if she'd "chair" a talk with all sides?

The fact that this clown rejects her offer tells you ANY and EVERYTHING how far backwards this country will go if he or any of his circus clowns and animals would reign.

I never was a friend of any sides, but now it's sure, this dried up dwarf - promoting something he himself is dismantling it.

How sick can Hippocratic get?

The Dems aren't contesting this election but then neither is Thaksin but if there is an election then he will be in charge again undemocratically.

So what's the solution?

Condemn democratic ways because we assume, something, or

we go rogue like this souptrap clown, or

we put all efforts in to do the best to have fair elections to allow the people, who really earn it - to decide who should lead them for the net term?

I'd say and agree/support, always - the latter.

Hence, the more the opposition now rejects, I'd say, in then end, the ore THEY pave the way themselves so nothing changes but only gets worse.

Didn't we all learn that "Dialogue", the competences to talk to each other, reduced risk s going to war. no?

I can't see any reason why the Thai shouldn't be able to learn the same. Given, however, that crazy loudspeakers get turned off and brains, on, instead.

Didn't we all learn that "Dialogue", the competences to talk to each other, reduced risk s going to war. no?

No we learned that telling the Japanese we surrender reduced the chance of going to war.

No dialogue needed.

How soon we forget.

No surrender you can't negotiate withl a scorpion or snake

Well done Suphet. Notice difference between red shirt thugs in 2010 and this protest. So fat totally peaceful no burnings no guns with protestors just a very large group of determined people who are totally sick and tired of Taksin and his lot just doing whatever they want.

I never thought Suphet it stood a chance but whatever Taksin supporters here say just going by crowds he obviously has massive support. And before we get a barrage of BS about elected government democracy elections and rest it is obvious to anyone not blind that Taksin and his vile government are not wanted by a very large section of Thais of all walks of life.

To hold an election on 2^nd feb is pointless and will achieve nothing. It would not even result in a government even if Taksin got 100% of vote since os many wont vote and their cant be enough MPs anyway. Even if Taksin managed to disregard rules again and try ot form a parliament it simply would not be accepted by so many it oculd not function and Army will not intervene.

So only way pout is for Yingluk to resign and a interim new caretaker government not linked to Taksin take over for a few months while reforms are put in place. Then have an election without Taksin (or it simply wont work) and most would accept a voted government even one most red shirts would want provided Taksin was not involved.

The only other way out is an army coup or Taksin pays enough to start a real civil war which in his desperation he could well try however I dont think that will work and I cant see cowardly reds supporting in enough numbers and so hell have to rely on paid mercenaries.

Before Taksin tries to turn Thailand into a sort of Syria he should but wont do decent thing for sake of Thailand. Being vile coward he is and fact all he cares for is his own then that is not going to happen.

Negotiation is the ONLY way forward, like it or not nothing will change until all sides are considered and included in how to move forward.

Suthep can sound like a broken record all he wants and the few thousand people with him, the truth is it dosnt represent more than a few % of the people however much youd like it to.

Respect the vote and go work on a real opposition party, if things are to be changed you do it only by respecting all sides and the right to vote.

Dems go away and get some decent policies and pitch it to the people like any other decent party, until then they are just unelectable and politically youll get what Thailand deserves.

Sutheps demands of instilling a peoples China bureau has absolutely no international support and hardly any from the people, they are so out of touch with what people want its laughable.

People want fair and fully represented reforms, that means it has to include ALL including the reds and yellows around a table and all working towards a positive change. Suthep has missed the wave of support in the beginning to drive this support into a brick wall by making demands that border on the insane. In short the dems have totally blown any credibility by hitching its coat to the madman.

Internationally this whole attempt to be undemocratic is seen as a massive step backwards and Thailand's image has suffered more in the last decade simply because it has deviated from the democratic process. This is the fault of the elite making demands when they dont win in elections and has set a bad example how to gain control. This time it has totally missed the opportunity and sympathy of the people by continuing to demonstrate the lack of willingness to negotiate and being the healing process.

Im not a red supporter but image wise this government have not reacted the way the dems did and that is what is important, they are also asking for talks, only an imbecile refuses to take part and Suthep is playing his part perfectly being one. He had the time he had the chance and threw it away with excessive demands and claims, just like now by refusing to talk.

In short he is now

You are correct negotiation is the only way forward.

your claim that

Suthep can sound like a broken record all he wants and the few thousand people with him, the truth is it dosnt represent more than a few % of the people however much youd like it to.

is ridicules. Are you honestly asking us to believe that with such a small backing he can peacefully bring Yingluck to her knees. first she wouldn't resign then she would then she would not delay the election now she wants to talk about it. All because of a few citizens who are not involved in politics other than as voters. Give us a break.

You are very sadly mistaken it is far more people opposing her than you are aware of. The point is you can stay unaware and nothing will change but as she becomes more and more aware of the number of people against her the whole government starts to back peddle.

Yes discussion is necessary but Suthep is correct in insisting it be done before the election. It makes no sense to expect a government to campaign on the basses that they will take part in reforming the government only if you have an election first. They do not want to run for office on a level field. Agree to reforming the government first with out giving the advantage of being in power to any of the parties and you will come up with a much better government.

Is that not what we all want?

Sounds to be about the same numbers as those who have gone to BKK from each place.

Wait for another couple of days when the rice farmers have still not been paid then see how many love PT.

Actually you will find its the reverse now.

Most rice farmers I am informed are now really upset, even more than normal, with the Democrats and Suthep and blame the late payments on them in full.

The late payment and the blame put on Suthep and the Democrats for causing all these problems is actually making people more determined than ever to vote and vote PTP, I am quite well informed.

Obviously you reside in a different area of Isaan to me. The information I am hearing indicates the farmers are disinclined to join the anti government demonstrations in BKK because they do not want to use their own money. It would therefore not appear credible to say the late payment is due to the demonstrations and the Democrats, more like the opposite and by definition the voting intentions. It has also been in the public domain that PTP have admitted the loss of 1 million of their voter base.

When you said

The information I am hearing indicates the farmers are disinclined to join the anti government demonstrations in BKK because they do not want to use their own money

I took it to mean that they do not want to spend there own money as it is a rare commodity. I was wondering are they also waiting for their rice payments. I believe the government says they have the money to pay them so it would mean that if the government has it the rice farmers don't. That is just common sense.

I got the impression from your post that they are not happy with the PTP.

Level head's post points out perfectly the need for a better education. Defiantly some are lacking in it. You on the other hand come from a more intelligent area.

Can some one explain why the Democrats are getting blamed they stand no chance of gaining power as they have not entered any Candidates. Yet certain people continue to blame them. What have they to gain? When I say What have they to gain? I mean both the Democrats and the posters claiming they have some thing to gain.

Some of them it is obvious are new to Thailand and the scene and have not had time to investigate both sides or check on the history of this protest. I am sure given time they will have a better base of knowledge to work from.

The minority acting in the deeds of the so called majority. Oh how intellectual you are all acting. Can't see anyone but yourselves and Suthep. How much is he paying you guys. Take everything guys, in fact your possibly playing further into the hands of the PTP... Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are confusing things. This was all brought about by watching Thaksin and his followers. It had nothing to do with Suthep he was a Johnny come lately. Yes we are looking at are selves. We are unhappy with watching are money flow to places that are not even in this country and in no way benefit the country.

Nope, the ones in Toys R Us are kiddie ones, also have microscopes there around 1,500 baht.

Digital Photo Studio in Airport Plaza 3rd floor has/had telescopes. If it's a budget one, though, I'd be inclined to get a good pair of binoculars instead, which can also sit on a tripod.

How good of a pair that are tripod mountable can you acquire here in Chiang Mai?

Have you any idea of the price or where they would be available here in Chiang Mai?

total lunacy. abhisit and suthep are only interested in anarchy.

Just a question. Would anarchy allow me as much power as Yingluck?

Any attempt to shut down air travel will be met with military intervention.

That's the line that was drawn by the military some time ago.

Lets hope they stick to that.

Wouldn't want to have to have to divert Thaksin arrival to Cambodia.

Gomer Pyle was rumored to have been seen there also.

Goooooley imagine that

well, the aeon bank at Central Festival has a notice on it that says maximum withdrawal is 20K... so even if you have 1000 USD limit set by your bank, the most that the

ATM is gonna give you is 20K baht... maybe you can do consecutive pulls?

I believe the maximum draw from the same account in one day is 40,000 baht. How ever you can only get 20,000 at a time you must make two withdrawals. I have done it at both Festival and the airport.

Asia Society is a leading educational organization dedicated to promoting mutual understanding and strengthening partnerships among peoples, leaders and institutions of Asia and the United States in a global context.

promoting mutual understanding and strengthening partnerships. Definitely describes the man and his cause, good work.

you are joking or on drugs right didn't some of his boys threaten to march on the us embassy a few weeks ago?

That alone, would get him my vote, lol.

All joking aside, it shows, that enough people like him. They probably announced the upcoming vote on ASTV or Blueskytv and asked people to vote for him, but they still had to vote for him, to achieve great results like that. I'm sure other candidates, probably did the same, with their friends, and/or followers.

With all due respect to Aung San Suu Kyi. I believe he deserves it. He is the most powerful force to come out for political change in Asia since Mao. Many may not like his ideas but if they would take the time to read them all he is doing is asking for time to take a look at the government and what can be changed in it to make it a better Government no matter who wins the election. A formidable task but far better than who cares.

Thankfully his intentions are good. The results time will tell.

There is not an election delay scenario, which does not equate to a coup........No matter how a delay is spun by the unelectable coup-mongers, it is effectively a coup....Trying to sugar-coat or otherwise make a coup not appear to be a coup, doesn't fool anyone...One needs to simply conclude who would benefit from a delay and who is instigating one, to see it is not Democratic pro-electoral forces....it is coup-intentioned ones who are the cause....Feb. 2nd Election or Coup....Not complicated.

The 2006 election didn't produce a result, and new elections were planned for about 6 months later. This election can not produce a result, so new elections will need to be organised within 6 months.

Sent from my phone ...

It can't produce a result which meets necessary quorum in the first round, no, but that will result in further by-elections. They have 180 days to fill the seats. I think they need 490. But of course, Suthep will probably always be able to disrupt those constituencies in the South and make sure seats aren't filled. Only way that I can see the seats being filled is if soldiers are ordered to protect registration and polling stations.

I think it would benefit the government if they could delay the election for two months or so, because there's only so long Suthep can maintain his head of steam in Bangkok. For Feb 2nd these protesters might still be there, fully committed to preventing it from going ahead. April the 2nd though, would be a different prospect. Can Suthep keep people out on the streets for another two or three months? Does he need to?

Personally though, I think the election should go ahead for symbolic purposes, despite the fact that it won't solve any real problems. Also because, as has been pointed out, there's no legal basis for delaying it. And because there's no guarantee that delaying it will solve anything either.

I agree with your first two paragraphs. But I do not see any improvement in Thailand coming out of them. Just a get me out of this scrape with out me having to change anything. As for the last paragraph. It reads more like a don't even try to change any thing. Speaking only for my self I believe that there should be changes made in the government no matter what party is in power. I am against throwing up my hands and saying o well with out even trying.

As for legal basis. Who knows I was under the assumption and it was backed up by most posters that they had to have the election with in 90 days now I see in this opening post that it is 180 days. Who really knows? I wish I could figure out a way to have a poll on who wants to see changes in the government and who doesn't want to see them. Probably have to have some different levels percentage wise. It defiantly is not a black and white question for most people. It would not mention what changes just the percentage of people who agree it needs changing and how much of it needs changing.

I also wish I was rich.

“Laws must be amended through the government and parliamentary system in solving these issues. I’m pleased to offer full cooperation.” - Yingluck telling more lies.

Winning an election allows the winning party(s) to form a government and pass laws. If the government attempts to pass a self-serving law or one that goes against the constitution there has to be a mechanism to ckeck and, if necessary, reject the bad law. YL's government attempted to pass a self-serving amnesty law (the original version was quite acceptable to the opposition and others), furtively amended to include the PM's brother and many other potential lawbreakers which only the protests stopped, however temporarily.

They also attempted to amend the constitution which was voted down by one of the few bodies (the CC) left to check their illegality. PTP rejected that verdict which is an illegal act according to the constitution.

In most countries a convicted criminal living abroad would never be allow to install a sister to carry out his instructions. The closest I can recall is Marcos & Imelda - a fine example.

As for rigging an election - that happens in every general election here. It's called vote buying and has been accompanied by intimidation which has been increasing.

Yes, using non-democratic means has been a feature of YL's and her brother's governments. The only difference is that large protests have prevented one non-democratic law this time but didn't manage to stop her brother (the 49% law) when he was directly in power.

A self-serving law need not be illegitimate. In this case, giving amnesty to Thaksin is both self-serving and what a large constituency among the redshirts (a core part of the government coalition) want.

It is certainly true that the setup with Yingluck as an instrument of her brother is highly irregular, but that arrangement is on the other hand hard to separate from the also highly irregular use of military and judicial power on the part of the opponents of Thaksin et al. For most outside observers, the latter approach appears to be a far more illegitimate approach to governing than the former, especially as the source of democratic legitimacy for the current institutional setup is highly doubtful.

There is a special irony in a constitutional court declaring an amendment to the constitution unconstitutional. If this state of affairs would become regularly accepted then the CC has essentialy declared themselves absolute rulers of Thailand, as they become an unchallangeable authority. They have both the power to interpret the implementation of the constitution as the highest law of the land, as well as the power to control the contents of the constitution itself.

Adding to the irony of pointing to the reluctance of the PTP to accept the authority of the CC on matters of constitutional amendment as a violation of "Democracy" is the fact that the defeated amendment was intended to form a fully elected senate, as opposed to today´s system of partially using administrative appointments based on unclear democratic legitimacy. A system, that to top it off, was implemented by a junta following a military coup.

Perhaps it is not terribly strange that the rest of the world has a hard time swallowing the party line about Suthep et al "standing up for Democracy"...

PS.

My favorite aspect of the "Vote buying" line of attack is the way in which the oppostion (and their allies in the system) have managed to both leverage their supposed aversion to vote buying as an argument against... well, holding elections (in favor of "reform") while at the same time fighting efforts to make elections cleaner. Suthep et al. have needless to say dismissed PTP suggestions for international election monitors, but that irony still pales compared to the effort of the Constitutional Court following the 2006 elections. When the Electoral Commission decided to attempt to thwart vote-buying by turning voting booths around (to make fotographing your ballot in return for payment impossible), the CC invalidated the elections... for reasons of voter´s privacy being violated. It´s all deliciously, but perversly ironic. I almost admire the sheer Chutzpah of the whole thing.

"

It is certainly true that the setup with Yingluck as an instrument of her brother is highly irregular, but that arrangement is on the other hand hard to separate from the also highly irregular use of military and judicial power on the part of the opponents of Thaksin et al. For most outside observers, the latter approach appears to be a far more illegitimate approach to governing than the former, especially as the source of democratic legitimacy for the current institutional setup is highly doubtful."

"highly irregular use of military and judicial power on the part of the opponents of Thaksin et al."

Care to give us some examples of how the protestors have used those two points to their benefit. The last I heard the Military did not want to talk to them they just tried to get the two sides together.

Please don't tell me you are a red shirt trying to justify your illegal seizure of public property and defense of the territory with armed men. That has nothing to do with that. The situation we are facing here today. We have on one hand a group of protestors trying to reform the government and put an end to the corruption and irregularities in the voting system and On the other hand we have a government who has come to power using the current t system and while there immensely enriched their own fortunes.

As far as I know they have not used the judicial system yet but they have pointed out where there are places that allow for the delay of the voting. I am getting the feeling that you do not realize the opposition was formed by private citizens and grew to become a real thing at which point a Democrat resigned his position in the house so that he could lead them. After they were one unit composed of several others with one leader a political party joined them. This is not the PTP against another party. This is the PTP against a group of citizens tired of the corruption.

Or were you talking about the use of the Judaical system to charge opponents for crimes which they did not commit and sue people who say things that no matter how true they are if you don't like them you can sue them. Yes there has been quite a bit of that. but it is not happening here in the current situation.

Personally I would love to see the constitutional court rule on if it is legal or not to delay the elections .

“Laws must be amended through the government and parliamentary system in solving these issues. I’m pleased to offer full cooperation.” - Yingluck telling more lies.

Winning an election allows the winning party(s) to form a government and pass laws. If the government attempts to pass a self-serving law or one that goes against the constitution there has to be a mechanism to ckeck and, if necessary, reject the bad law. YL's government attempted to pass a self-serving amnesty law (the original version was quite acceptable to the opposition and others), furtively amended to include the PM's brother and many other potential lawbreakers which only the protests stopped, however temporarily.

They also attempted to amend the constitution which was voted down by one of the few bodies (the CC) left to check their illegality. PTP rejected that verdict which is an illegal act according to the constitution.

In most countries a convicted criminal living abroad would never be allow to install a sister to carry out his instructions. The closest I can recall is Marcos & Imelda - a fine example.

As for rigging an election - that happens in every general election here. It's called vote buying and has been accompanied by intimidation which has been increasing.

Yes, using non-democratic means has been a feature of YL's and her brother's governments. The only difference is that large protests have prevented one non-democratic law this time but didn't manage to stop her brother (the 49% law) when he was directly in power.

A self-serving law need not be illegitimate. In this case, giving amnesty to Thaksin is both self-serving and what a large constituency among the redshirts (a core part of the government coalition) want.

It is certainly true that the setup with Yingluck as an instrument of her brother is highly irregular, but that arrangement is on the other hand hard to separate from the also highly irregular use of military and judicial power on the part of the opponents of Thaksin et al. For most outside observers, the latter approach appears to be a far more illegitimate approach to governing than the former, especially as the source of democratic legitimacy for the current institutional setup is highly doubtful.

There is a special irony in a constitutional court declaring an amendment to the constitution unconstitutional. If this state of affairs would become regularly accepted then the CC has essentialy declared themselves absolute rulers of Thailand, as they become an unchallangeable authority. They have both the power to interpret the implementation of the constitution as the highest law of the land, as well as the power to control the contents of the constitution itself.

Adding to the irony of pointing to the reluctance of the PTP to accept the authority of the CC on matters of constitutional amendment as a violation of "Democracy" is the fact that the defeated amendment was intended to form a fully elected senate, as opposed to today´s system of partially using administrative appointments based on unclear democratic legitimacy. A system, that to top it off, was implemented by a junta following a military coup.

Perhaps it is not terribly strange that the rest of the world has a hard time swallowing the party line about Suthep et al "standing up for Democracy"...

PS.

My favorite aspect of the "Vote buying" line of attack is the way in which the oppostion (and their allies in the system) have managed to both leverage their supposed aversion to vote buying as an argument against... well, holding elections (in favor of "reform") while at the same time fighting efforts to make elections cleaner. Suthep et al. have needless to say dismissed PTP suggestions for international election monitors, but that irony still pales compared to the effort of the Constitutional Court following the 2006 elections. When the Electoral Commission decided to attempt to thwart vote-buying by turning voting booths around (to make fotographing your ballot in return for payment impossible), the CC invalidated the elections... for reasons of voter´s privacy being violated. It´s all deliciously, but perversly ironic. I almost admire the sheer Chutzpah of the whole thing.

"There is a special irony in a constitutional court declaring an amendment to the constitution unconstitutional. If this state of affairs would become regularly accepted then the CC has essentialy declared themselves absolute rulers of Thailand, as they become an unchallangeable authority. They have both the power to interpret the implementation of the constitution as the highest law of the land, as well as the power to control the contents of the constitution itself."

Reminds me of the Supreme courts in the States and Canada.

You are definatly wrong in your assertion that the protestors are against elections. You have been reading to many Yingluck fans.

All they want to do is postpone them so that they can make them more fair for all parties. As they are now it is the party with the most money who wins. The issues don't count.

I know several people who attend those classes.

They learn nothing, and repeat the same levels again and again.

But they do seem to enjoy the classes, despite their failure to learn anything.

The reading/writing starts way beyond any level they managed this past year.

But they are happy with their Ed Visas.

I'm not interested in an Ed Visa - I simply want to learn to speak and read Thai.

Sent from my GT-I8552 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Go to the AUA school, the courses there are excellent, I went a couple of years ago and it was really good, intense but you will be speaking Thai if you put in the effort.

I went there when I had been in Thailand about a week. I took the beginners course. What a waste of time. I was in a class with about ten others half of them had all ready taken the class and they had all been here for at least a year. What it turned out to be was more about grammar than learning to speak the words. Try it grammar in a language you can't speak.

I had heard that some of the teachers were good but then again some of my class mates thought are's was. Of course it was there second time through the course.

I got more out of one on one where I was allowed to develop at my pace. Before we even started I had to learn to pronounce the vowels and use the aspirated words. Also she insisted I learn the tones. We then began with the grammar each lesson had a list of words that I was to learn and then how to speak them and the order to put them in.

To each their own Grammar was my weakest subject in high school and that was in a language I could speak. Some people pick it up very easily and others don't if you are in a group that struggles and you also have a hard time with it you will do much better than being in with some who pick it up real fast.

I agree with 52 about some of them just being there for the Visa thereby dragging the whole class down. You will find those kind of people in any school that can be used for an education visa.

You might do better to look around Pattaya for a bus to Chiang Mai if you are coming here from Pattaya. Just a suggestion.

Is there much in the way of 3D offered In Chiang Mai for the TV?

I'm not!

+1

I wonder if I can get away with being a bit risque?

Sensibly of course.

Well it has been traditional to make New Year resolutions that we seldom manage to follow. This year I am going to put my energy into weight reduction with a sensible diet and some exercise. I am not going to take one of these fad diets or listen to the people who only eat food that is as chemical free as the fruit in the garden of Eden. I will of course cut out some of the obvious such as sugar products and cut back on the rest.

I believe this is a sensible plan. As with out really working at it I have managed in the last two years to lose 15 Kilos.

I am not going to beat my self up if I go off it. In fact I might reward myself with some thing I shouldn't have every so often.

Wishing you all a happy and prosperous New Year.

I've recently started drinking goat milk and find it to be more easily digestible than any of the others mentioned here. I buy canned condensed goat milk and drink it in the evening before bed. I have a hyatal hernia and quite bad GERD and the goat milk really puts my stomach at ease!

Interesting - never gave goat's milk (or cheese) much thought before.

My body doesn't like neither soy nor cow's milk. Ideally we'd all be drinking human milk, but that seems to be in very short supply.

Related:

The dangers of dairy products

The dangers of soy

Harvard researchers launch Healthy Eating Plate:

Looked good until it said avoid bacon.