northernjohn

Still there is the chance of unifying the country. When the ptp loses it's voters due to the failed rice scheme there is room for another party to move in.

Whatever party that will be, it's leadership will have to treat all Thais equally and take them seriously. And not fall back into old elitarian behaviour as the people have experienced so often before.

Effectively fighting corruption will be the prime task for that new government.

If I may I would like to add the following from the article.

Waves of anti- and pro-government dissent, sometimes violent, form a rising tide of lawlessness centred in Bangkok regardless of ideology or principle. The many problems are almost certain to get worse before they get better.

Protesting is only lawless if the government passes laws to say it is. The lawful protests have been the cause of the lawlessness. It does not take much thinking to see where the lawlessness is coming from. Who has been talking about building up arms? Who has a record of using them against legal establishments. I won't name names so you people who were not here in 2010 will have to ask some one.

At the same time, sporadic violence in the southernmost provinces continues with no end in sight. While anybody in the wrong place at the wrong time can be attacked or killed, the cause of the violence remains largely unidentified.

It would be nice to see an honest attempt made at solving the deep south problem also. As it sits now people are dying on a regular base down there and there has been no attempt to solve the problem. the cause of the violence is well known. No matter how out of hand the violence in Bangkok can get it will not hold a candle to the death toll in the south.

It is almost as if the Nation and the Government have just excepted it and ignore it. Sending soldiers and holding peace talks with dissident groups who have nothing to do with the violence any more is not an answer. In fact sending more soldiers has just been supplying more people to be killed and a source of weapons for the extremist's.

Satit said joint operations between PDRC guards and police at road checkpoints seemed useless to him, as no ordinary vehicles going in or travelling near protest sites had been searched. Instead, only ambulances had been searched by police, he said.

What is the reasoning behind searching only ambulances? Are they expecting grenades to be brought in in bulk? Or are they suspecting it is medical personal behind it.

Or are they just as clueless as usual? Could they be acting on orders from above. They are under the control of a man in Dubai. Nepotism and Cronyism at it's best.

i would not at all be surprised if an explosive device or a sniper will take out suthep

.

I predicted this a few days ago. He's now more use to them as a martyr than as a nutter wandering around Bangkok.

Well you are half right. As a martyr he would have the Yingluck government in the street right quick.

As a nutter are you looking in a mirror?

This whole complicated protest situation isn't helped by some of the reporting.

In the other newspaper today the police are quoted as saying that grenades were thrown by someone mingling with the crowd and not from height.

However the BBC's Johnathan ' Dick ' Head quotes the police as saying the grenade thrower was one of the protesters ' own ' which completely changes the story.

Which of these reports is most accurate is beyond me and it's not the first time the authorities have made different statements to the media so did the other newspaper ignore a vital point or did Head add something in ? Just because someone is in a crowd doesn't have to mean they are a supporter as it's easy to mingle unless you are dressed completely in red and carrying a placard saying " I support the government ".

It suits Suthep to accuse the government and / or their supporters of responsibility whereas it suits others, many on this forum, to believe it's deliberate self-inflicted injury to increase sympathy and support.

Personally i would settle for the truth warts and all in order to get my head around what's really happening.

Jonathan Head is well known as a reporter who is not independently and impartially reporting the news, as he should. This guy is on Thaksin's side, he is not a reporter he is propagandist. He associates exclusively with Thaksin's supporters and mocks those who propose alternative views to the ruling Government's. We all saw how this creature behaved during 2010.

I have seen him on BBC reporting. It was obvious he is either unaware of the facts or intentionally withholding facts. In 2010 he was defiantly a red shirt Thaksin supporter.

I haven't been to the night bizarre in at least a year. A Japanese friend wanted a fake watch (Cartier) so I asked around at the night bizarre and we were then taken to a stall in the original night bizarre building. The door was padlocked but quickly opened by our vendor. The vendor started at 4000 baht & after 15 or 20 mins of haggling we settled on a price of 400 baht. Amazing how much the price comes down when one walks away and/or stands their ground. Keep in mind that the vendor really wants the sale, so just keep bargaining if you're serious about buying the item. A large number of the night bizarre vendors are Thai Yai or Burmese.

I normally stay away from all tourist areas in Thailand as the vendors are greedy s.o.b.'s and I'm tired of the aggressive haggling. Of course I have to negotiate prices at markets or just about anywhere else including pharmacies, but these are mostly regular people who are fun to bargain with. But the tourist areas attract aggressive vendors who often want to take home a months pay in one transaction.

I would guess that the space for their stalls is expensive to rent, so soaking the tourists is the name of the game. I find it odd that the Thai government advertises around the world to attract tourists and investors to come to Thailand, yet when these people come to Thailand they just get scammed and soaked of their money. Been like that since I started coming to Thailand 33 years ago.

I have had the hawkers follow me down the street in some countries. Nothing unique about it here in Thailand. I had two little kids 6 or 7 follow me for a quarter of a mile in Cambodia trying to sell me post cards and scarves.

You say the rent must be high. I had heard and take it with a spoon full of salt that they are charged 10,000 baht a month. Seemed awfully high to me.

prohibited in Thailand.

Is it the cylinders or the gun that is prohibited in Thailand? I know I as a foreigner can not buy a gun at least to the best of my knowledge but my wife could.

Welcome to the tourist zone in Thailand.

This in my opinion is the final straw. The red shirts and the PTP are so entwined that there is no way the government can claim innocence in this.

Stop and think about it for a moment. Violence is the last thing the government wants. They want elections to be held because they know they are certain to win again. The anti-government camp however, knows that violence is the one thing that will most likely force the military to stage another coup.

Two grenades in two crowded areas in two days and nobody has been caught. Rather fishy don't you think?

Stop and think about it. They do not have enough people registered to have a quorum so what has the PTP to gain by winning a costly pointless election. It is far more than two grenades in two days I don't even know how many there has been today. Maybe they were other type explosives. same same.

It would be to the advantage of the PTP to put the election off but to do that they would also have to back peddle more from Suthep. they reject his demands and then with out talking to him they take a step towards doing what he wants. They are drawing the line here. Like it or not the red shirts are a part of their political machine and have a proven record of violence.

When I say they back peddle from his demands I mean things like the senate not ratifying a bill to make Thaksin innocent. I for one think they had a lot to do with the senate not having a quorum. Refusing to disband the house then doing it. Refusing to step down as interim government and then setting up a committee to do what Suthep wanted. Except that they are going to control it. Little steps towards what Suthep wants. With another three months before the elections as a result of the failed one on the second of Feb. the protestors will be gone. The only ones left will be the retired people who have all the time in the world and do not need to make a living.

If the government did not want violence they would tell the red shirt leaders to rein in their troops.

Don't even bother to ask me why the red shirts would do it. violence is there strong point not logic. If logic was they would do all in their power to make sure the Feb2 farce comes off.

Assumption, assumption and more assumptions...

Aren't we so blessed to have all these assume-knowitall-smarties on this forum.

Actually, we don't need any news, just tell us WHO is doing WHAT next!

You are right How ever some of the assumptions are based on fact and others based on the pretty face of the Prime Minister thin air.

Some not many may also be based on a desire to keep the corruption at the present level for their personal gain. Personal gain is the reason for corruption.

I can tell you that Suthep will continue seeking to have the interim government step down and an interim unelected council made up of people from many different areas of expertise come together and try to reform a system that leads only to corruption and attempts to take over the government as a dictator.

I can not tell you what the violence will be but I can tell you that it will be by people who do not want to see the government change.

I feel bad for anyone here who thinks an UNELECTED council to choose the government is a good idea. Name another country besides dictatorships that does this .... Sent from my SM-N900 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

why not take a middle ground. An unelected council is not good. But by the same token, a leader, whether he/she be unelected or not, who has criminally violated conditions of office needs to be removed. Richard Nixon was democratically elected and then legally removed for abusing his power.

Remember what started these entire protests. Nobody was out doing anything whatsoever until the Thaksin clan tried to sneak in the amnesty (and at the time, the majority on both sides came out in force against it)...as the CNN reporter earlier asked Yingluck, "don't you think it would be a good thing for the country if the Shinawatras stepped away from politics?"

It amazes me that amidst all this, no moderate Red has stepped forward to say "we want elections but without the person who has abused power and is no longer fit to run the country," which just goes to show you who really is running the show. And no, you cant legally represent a country or be elected while living in Dubai.

I agree with what you have to say. By the same token an unelected council is not what they are suggesting as a permanent answer. Just long enough to put Thailand on a more democratic footing. It is not the end result just the beginning of a better democratic Thai government.

The last 4 years have been disgusting at the national level. 2010 we had an armed attempt to take over the government and burn down Bangkok. What did the PTP do to help stop this. nothing

2012 The PTP get elected and charge the people who did do something to stop it with murder. 2012 the elected PTP do nothing to find out who financed the 2010 armed attempted coup.

2014 grass roots citizens spring up in separate groups opposed to legalizing the crimes of the Prime Ministers brother and put an end to corruption.. They eventually join forces find a leader and the PTP seeks to find out who is paying there way despite the fact that it was many grass roots groups at their own expense who started a peaceful protest.

I take it for what it is a confession that this is indeed a red shirt action. And if it is true then it shows how much worse they are the anti government protesters. Not that many people doubt that I mean they are the ones that burned BKK.

At least in 2010 they had enough nerve to not run away.

This in my opinion is the final straw. The red shirts and the PTP are so entwined that there is no way the government can claim innocence in this.

Tipping is not a Thai custom (the country we are in).

Tipping is not an English custom (the country I am from).

You do what your culture tells you, and leave the rest of us alone.

I would agree with that .... in the distant past.

When i arrived in Thailand (a long time ago) all the travel books said that tipping was not necessary in Thailand. Even these days my Thai wife tells me to leave only 20 baht maximum no matter the price on the bill. But 'these' days I leave at least 10% of the bill value (assuming no service charge - then I leave nothing). If service and food quality exceptional then I up to 20%

Yes times change and cultures change. I am not as generous as you but I do agree with your wife. To not leave it I feel like I am in the wrong. People talk about how much money we add to the economy. Well it is really felt more by the tips we leave. The rest is just to support an existence economy. I can afford it so why not. I will on occasion leave more if the bill is large. It means a lot to the people who receive it and it really doesn't cost me enough money to make a difference in the way I live.

How ever as Nancy pointed out there are a lot of teachers here earning 20,000 to 30,000 per month plus expats living here on small pensions who it would make a difference to. Myself as an expat meeting the financial requirements can obviously afford it.

It is part of my culture that I have brought over with me and so far no Thai has got upset with me for using it and I have to admit that I have changed. 20 baht is cheap compared to what I paid at home.

Yesterday my 3BBB was great. Today back to normal slow speed and not always making connections.

Edit

The minute I post that it gets super fast again.

"As to whether she's fit to be PM - guess what, in a democracy the people get to decide that. That is the only thing that matters in a democratic system. You don't agree? Vote against the party. And if that party has ties to a person you don't like then vote against them. It's not a tricky concept but it seems to cause some confusion in these forums." Snig27

Yingluck is a party list MP which means she doesn't even represent a specific riding or territory. She was selected as leader by the PT party, or more likely her brother. She has had time to show if she if fit to be PM, I think she has been less than stellar. The idea in these forums that a democratic system is always fair and cannot be abused is very naive. North Korea has Democratic right in it's name, I guess that proves that it is a free country where people's votes choose the leader. If the people don't like their current despot they should just vote him out, right? People here in the forum have an understanding of what democracy is but they won't admit that things get murky when it is applied in the real world. Votes get bought, people get intimidated, propaganda is used. Nothing is as simple as you would like to pretend it is. And yes both sides do it.

You are trying to compare Thailand's political system to North Korea because of a word? Seriously? That's beyond ridiculous - do you have a grasp on how the two systems work? I guess not. Whether she's a list MP too is neither here nor there, she is the leader of the parliamentary majority party and thus PM. Forget about North Korea - your comparison is ludicrous - in a parliamentary democracy roughly equivalent to the Westminster system that's how a PM is selected.

And if we are talking qualifications, Yingluck's academic and business past would arguably make her the most qualified politician in the current parliament - at least from an admin POV - for the job.

He is correct both North Korea and Thailand have a democracy. It is a word that has many interpretations. Yet it is the word used in saying that Suthep doesn't want one. It is a word used through out the threads as some thing that Suthep doesn't want by his opponent's and some thing that he wants by his supporters. Only he wants an honest one.

What is her business past. A post in her brothers corporation that was done away with when he made her the head of the PTP. In other words her business past is comparable to her post as PM nepotism. that is the sum in one word of her business past.

What is her academic record she graduated from a collage hardly any one ever heard of. what was her grade point average. If Abhist was still in the parliament he would blow her away. by the way there is no current Parliament Yingluck disbanded it.

Anti democracy protesters go home. You were misled, misguided by people whose objectives include seizing power to install their dictatorship regime. Exercise your voting right before it is too late. You have seen the government have been tolerance, exercising restraint, patience in the midst of baseless and unsubstantiated accusations and daily threats from PDRC leaders. The safety and the livelihoods of the people are their main concerned not their power that was gained through democratic means. I am sure the government will be compassionate and appeal for leniency . Send from my Mobile

You have been misinformed.

Show me where Suthep has said he wants to take over the government.

He has repeatedly called for Yingluck to step down and a council be formed to reform the government. Some thing that after two and a half years Yingluck after having the people tell her that her actions are unacceptable has agreed on. The only thing is she wants to be the chair and pick who is on the council. Make no mistake about it. Prove it to yourself she wants people from all areas to participate. Go and try to join it. She wants the people from all areas that will do as they are instructed to do. She has the say so on who is on the council not the people.

I am not up on constitutional law but I believe if she steps down the Senate can appoint a caretaker government and they in turn would be able to set up a council with the purpose of setting up a honest democratic government that would be duty bound to serve the people of Thailand.

One that would not be responsible to some one who does not even live in the country. One that would be accountable for where they spend the peoples money. One that would not lie to you and say it was OK because it makes you feel good. When the truth is if they tell the truth they will be accused of mismanagement of the money.

Explain to me how Suthep is going to come out of all this with power. He may well be sidelined completely. Is Yingluck willing to take that chance? An election on Feb.2 is a guarantee that she will be returned to power and the ongoing corruption go on unchecked. She will justify it by saying she was elected so there fore people approve of what she has been doing.

That is of course if they can get enough seats filled to form a quorum. Which in it's self makes one wonder how accountable is she forcing an election that is meaningless.

it did not seem to be a problem for them back in 2010

I would even think that now that they are all rich, thanks to this great government, they could stand one week with a slightly reduced activity in some areas.

Back then Thailand was a dictatorship, today it's a democracy. But maybe you like fascism. Which wouldn't surprise me given your hateful attitude towards the working people.

A democracy? Try again with kleptocracy, and you will be closer to the truth.

Dictatorship in 2010? i must have missed that. The current state of this country looks way more like a dictatorship in disguised than in 2010.

Now, what do you know about who I hate or not? Me liking fascism? Are you accusing me? What does your comment has to do with this thread? You don't know me, and your judgement is worth nothing!

I stated a fact. In 2010, the very same people who complain today for a week of mere inconvenience in some areas of Bangkok did not seem to suffer too much, even after a 2 month blockade of the city center. Prove me wrong, please!

Have a good day

Well I for one think diceq is full of BS.

As I read his post if he really believes what he says if it is a dictatorship and people are making a living it is not OK.

But if it is Democracy and they are not making a living that is OK.

Strange attitude.

That cannot be true. Suthep said this would only affect the government.

Those people in Bangkok who say their lives and businesses are being drastically affected by the shutdown must be lying, mustn't they?

They should rejoice they have honest protestors who do not shut their business down and try to burn it down.

If the protesters are honest, they would not be causing all this inconvenience to innocent people for their own ends. What is the ballot box for?

Some how I don't think they are for people to put a piece of paper in with a name on it that they were given money to write. I don't think they are boxes to be stored where people can get at them and switch pieces of paper for other pieces with other names on them.

This is some of the practices Suthep is trying to put an end to. They will be for people to put a slip of paper in where there is a name that they believe to be the best man for the job and handled in such a way as no one can get to them until they are opened and the votes counted. These are things that will extend to all parties not just one. It is called a level playing field.

Do you have a problem with that? If you believe it is OK to continue using them as they are now can you explain to me why you think those things are OK. I will not except that is not happening or that they are trying to put an end to Democracy. When you and I both know reform is needed. At least I hope you know it.

If the election were to be delayed it would provide the Democrat party time to consider how its anti-democracy stance has repelled voters of its own support base. If the Democrats care, they would decide to participate in the electoral, democratic process. If the Democrats have abandoned democracy altogether, then that would be clear also. Presently, it looks that the Democrat party has abandoned democracy based on one person one vote, which is a long term negative for Thailand or for any country.

You're implying things once again. That's your personal opinion and could not be further from truth. I'll quote Abhisit. He is on record.

The leader of Thailand's main opposition party is trying to differentiate its positions from the demands of street demonstrations led by his one-time deputy, saying it isn't seeking to suspend the country's democracy.

"The Democrat Party stands nothing to gain from the coup d'etat. (It) stands to gain nothing even if the protestors win. We will not be assuming power. We will not accept any position in power. We do not have anything to gain from violence," Abhisit Vejjajiva, the leader of the Democrat Party told CNBC in an exclusive interview.

"We do not actually mind if we lose fair elections. And we've always accepted election results," he said.

Abhisit wanted to be clear his party's decision to boycott the election, set for February 2 in an unsuccessful effort by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to defuse the street protests, was not due to widely held expectations she and her party will be swept back into power.

"Even their private polling showed they were slipping. In fact, one poll that was released before dissolution (of parliament) had us ahead. But that's not the point," he said. "The problem occurred because the government betrayed the trust of the people," he said, citing the amnesty bill.

Representatives of the government did not immediately return emails requesting comment.

It couldn't be clearer. We will not be assuming power. We will not accept any position in power. We do not have anything to gain from violence. The amnesty bill.

We??? Do you got a rat in your pocket?

I take it that is your way of admitting you have been wrong all along.

The anti government people are respecting your right to vote. All they are asking is that you respect Thailand and make an informed vote. Not one based on payments of money or promises that can not be fulfilled. Make a vote for a government that has a sustainable budget. Do not sell your grandchildren's tax money away to a proven mishandling of finical affairs government. Know what the issues are. Vote for a transparent government. One that can sell rice and tell you how much they sell it for.

I mean really folks they can make much todo about what they pay for it but have to keep it a secret what they sell it for.

Is that asking to much.

Particularly not one for a convicted criminal on the run in Dubai. This is a convicted criminal who was tried and convicted by his own party.

But if you don't make what they regard { rightly or wrongly} as an informed vote, then they will disregard it.

If you have some thing to say man up and say it. Leave the mysterious they alone. I wonder how many posts would disappear if the ones referring only to they were to be pulled. Who know s maybe some of my own. But I do try to let people know who I am talking about. Kind of like making meaningful statement right or wrong as compared to just babbling on about they. Or some fictitious group with out names called the Amara or some such silly name.

Defiantly something going on. My 3BBB is not disconnecting on me and my download of BBC is fine. So is my CNN. It is operating really fast for a change.

Before any investigation has taken place she up and says 'we didn't do it'

As if she knows anything about it at all.

How many times has she ordered investigations to be carried out without result ?

Anyway why should she have to order an investigation, isn't it the police job to do that without her orders ?

I didn't do it. But if I was the Prime Minister and I had done it myself that is exactly the speech I would have given.

I wasn't paying to close attention at the start when the red shirts got together and said they would back her. But did she not talk to them and ask for their backing.

Makes sense to me tell the police and the army no violence and assemble a group of proven violent people. Then claim the government had nothing to do with it.

This article from the New York Times demonstrates that international coverage is beginning to sift what is really happening here, simply by laying it out in a balanced way. And it is becoming clearer here too. Thirty minutes after the bomb attack that shocked the nation, injured dozens, and killed one - the administration released a statement that didn't mention the bomb attack once. Not once. No outrage. No mentioning of it at all. Not one solitary sentence. Instead, the administration focused their continued rage towards the protest movement, threatening action against all those who attend, or don't attend but still sympathize, all those who donate to it, all state officials who declare their support for the protests. The administration's threat also included extended members of their families.

Again, this was 30 minutes after this terrorist attack on the Thai men and women on the streets, walking peacefully, cheering, hand in hand. What monstrous administration is it ? Simple - it's the one the people want to replace.

You are seriously beginning to sound like a broke record.

Do you have evidence, that the attack has any connection to the "monstrous administration"?

And, please: I said evidence!

Voices in ones head do not count as evidence!

I have no evidence other than it was a military weapon used not a pipe bomb or home made one such as the red shirts hid around Bangkok after they got their ass kicked in 2010.

Is not a military weapon a government item?

Just pointing it out. Make what excuses ever you may out of it.

Day old news already. Now three murdered and 33 injured. Both Police and Military, were there to investigate, right after the incident,as seen on live Television, so I don't know, why people keep saying that police wasn't allowed to investigate

as far as dwindling numbers go, look on Bluesky.tv, where you can see things, as they happen, not hear about it later, altered, through various propaganda machines

Because the protestors don't trust the police is why. And that is a quote from the PDRC guard in the post today... And one hasn't thought of this already? Gee synapses are firing pretty quickly the last couple of days, you already know this so why ask the question. PDRC don't like the police.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well that was a brilliant post. The protestors don't trust the police.

Wake up the protestors don't trust the Shinawatra clan and want them out of power. That would mean the power in the police force would have to go. The protestors are calling for an end to the nepotism. Of course they don't trust the police. Do you?

I hope this isn't seen as off topic but i would like to ask fellow posters who do not live in the Bkk area if there's any indication of stepped up security in their home area.

I ask because today, for the first time in a long time, I went into Udon Thani and at Central Plaza Shopping Complex only one of the two entrances to the car park was in use and the security guards were checking the underside of vehicles with a extension mirror as well as opening boots. I should say that the staff and motorcycle park on the other side of the complex had a guard on duty and he was doing nothing.

Udon is roughly 500 Kms away from Bkk and is a VERY red area.

Well given the history of the red shirts you might want to be grateful that they do have security checks in the heart of the red country.

Crazy, wont let poluce investigate. Makes me wonder who set the explosives??? Suthep is getting to be desperate

If they did investigate and found no clues as to who did it you would be one of the first to call them inept.