Eric Loh

when you consider that there are no ballistics tests to link the weapons used to kill people directly to the army and that they have based it all on thew fact "high power" weapons as n the type the army uses you really have to wonder at the mentallity of those pressing the charges. A bullet needs to be linked(ballistics) to a weapon before you can claim that that was the gun used especially when thaksin had his paid killers the blackshirts simply shooting everyone to cause as much mayhem as possible. The blackshirts were in the areas the killing shots were fired from and the army was firing back at those people shooting at them, the fact that the red shirts were using others for cover should reflect on the reds. The govt issued orders to return fire, the reds started the shooting and all the appologists in here expect them to have no blame even though it was all their fault, what a bunch of sorry ars*d losers those defending the reds really are.

Pleases stop being naive and allow others to think for you. You really think that something as important as ballistic tests were not investigated? Inquest at the Bangkok South Criminal Court have sufficient evidences to link the 4 men and 1 woman in the temple were killed by high velocity bullets from the army. The inquest also dismissed these mysterious unidentified men firing at the soldiers.

Previous court ruling also stated that 5 people were killed by guns fired by military personnel and 1 Italian photographer killed by bullets fired from the direction of the soldiers.

These are court rulings not hearsay or information passed around by TVF AV and Sutherp fan club. Now the worst part of this is that all these evidences were passed to the criminal court for prosecution and the sad part is that the court threw this out due to technicality. No consideration of the seriousness of the charges. Simply pathetic.

The Bangkok Post known for their anti Yingluck stance aptly allowed a politically correct satire cartoon showing Ahbisit and Suterp backs against the Lady of Justice and pouring cold water on her. How appropriate to describe the disdain for justice and double standard pitifully displayed.

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

In 2010 Thaksin told his red shirts to fight the army and that he was very near to Thailand and would come back to help them if the army would open fire on them. Remember those famous words?

Red shirt leader Jatuporn, natthawut etc have also told their supporters numerous times to fight the army. Even told them to burn down the city.

You don't mention them in your propaganda piece. Why not?

Nickymaster did you even take a split second to think about what you typed?

I didn't see Thaksin in the protest, you don't mention that in your propaganda piece. Why not?

So some person from a distant land says attack and even though they don't attack just because it was said it justifies the slaughter? WOW talk about a weak gene pool.

If that is OK, then if you ever tell anyone to attack/fight back for what you/they feel is your/their freedom then in your home country shouldn't they then attack and kill, your friends and/or family because that's basically what you said as your response. I for one wouldn't raise any concern if it happen like that to you in return.

So Yingluck fires someone from their post and gets removed, with a COUP to follow, Abhisit murders people and even gets busted on video talking about it and nothing to see here move along. Sounds like that gene pool is expanding.

This country will never see a posative change until fairness is fully enfourced for all people. When a PM runs around murdering people in a protest and walks away from it you can bet the future holds even worst things to come.

Be careful. Do you have proof to your statement that Abhisit "murdered"people. Read what the court said.

That was a peaceful protest. which if you were here, you would know. It was armed rebellion being whipped into a frenzy by the fugitive video star for his own ends.

If anyone should be charge he should - for incitement and treason. But the AG said although there was plenty of video evidence he wasn't in the country at the time so there was no reason to charge him. That was when his sister was PM of course.

Does it matter whether there are evidence. The court dismiss the case due to technicality - wrong court. All the proof and evidence will go to the shredder. Court is a real joke. A serious case ruled out by technicality.

The Beat goes on.

I sure would like to see Suthep with his head shaved and wearing the saffron robes. Now that the heat's off he can go back to being a worm.

Must said that the shaven head and saffron robe have worked their charm in court. Expect him to disrobe quickly and get back to being a scoundrel and manipulator.

Still comes down to why ML Panadda not refer the corruption of this man to the NACC if he has the fortitude to mention to the media. Made this an example for all to see. Or he just full of hot air and made accusations without amble investigation and only based on hearsay, just like the load of accusation hurl at the rice scheme. He is a comic.

Court letting AV go due to technicality just like before. Coincidence or consistency.

Bad idea to have a monk be the moderator. Wrong job skill and he has already taken side. How on earth can he ever be moderate and facilitate dialogue. No wonder it ended in a stalemate.

Shouldn't the NACC be questioning the procurement manager rather then the house speakers? Strange.

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A rubber pledging scheme perhaps?

Rubber is a commodity in the international market and if your price are too high they go to your competitors . Additionally there has been a lot of studies to replace the rubber anyways, so if you want to dig your own grave then be my guest

At least rubber isn't quite as perishable as rice. So the dynamics aren't quite the same

Wrong. Rubber sheets in storage deteriorate too. Temperature, humidity, oxidation and even insects, rodent and mould affect quality of rubber in storage. That's also reason why the junta wants to sell the stockpile quickly.

Yes I can see it now.

Scenario 1. PTP government demolish buildings encroaching on beach and illegal taxi stands. Articles appear in The Nation decrying such actions as "populist" and heavyhanded. Owners, Local mafia and politicians exploit situation and organise demonstrations. Some violence is caused by hired armed "security personnel". Police are called in to break up demonstrations. Expat forums are filled with posts blaming "Takky". Courts rule demonstrations are peaceful and governments hands are tied.

Who is seen as the Bad Boy in this?

Scenario 2. Military Junta backed by Martial Law, ban on demonstrations and censorship, demolish buildings encroaching on beach and illegal taxi stands. Articles appear in The Nation praising return to "natural beauty" that they have not cared a fig about, much less write articles about, in the intervening years between coups. Owners, local mafia (there are no politicians to speak of) keep quiet, because they have to. Expat forums are filled with posts praising Prayuth.

Who is seen as the Good Boy in this?

Fab, expect this kind of scenario if the PT government confiscate all the illegal land owned by the Thaugsuban family in Samui. Organized protest and road blockages. Injunction by the courts and the Thausuban family will sue the government. Street protest escalate and move to Bangkok for wider escalation. Third parties involvement and violence. Of course for a balance view, the opposition will do the same if the Dem government demolished beach infrastructures in Pattaya.

On the other hand, current junta has martial law and no protest allowed. They can do all these because they can. Everyone keeps quiet and really an easy job to bring happiness. Wonder why the junta has yet to move to recover all state land from the Thausuban in Samui. Cherry picking.

Easy enough choice between sitting behind bars for 20 years than freedom oversea. Expect him to bolt. That cheap bag of bail money is for him to flee and not reveal too much about what the inside story of the PAD and their backers. He will obviously get another bag for fleeing and not telling.

The Democrats have made no secret of the fact that they'd like to disenfranchise those they don't think are qualified to vote, meaning a great many of the Thai voters. I don't think the election will be that blatantly fixed. I think it will probably be a reasonably fair election, but the elected offices will have little real power under the constitution that is being written.

... ...

Which reminds me

"Besides, continued Tully, as if he had not heard her last remark, I dont like Communism. I dont like to think that anyones my equal. Nobody is. Im superior to a great number of people and inferior to others, and for that reason Im not at all sure that Im in favour of democracy either. Its nonsense to have the vote of someone who only after enormous struggle achieves the ability to read, be the equal of the vote of another who can read in twenty-four languages, though reading is no criterion. I merely cite it as an example""

The Wrath of Grapes (aka The Mouse that Roared) - 1955 Leonard Wibberly

Is this an argument for only allowing the 'educated' to vote?

I have a Thai friend who is finishing her Masters Degree in Chemistry and is considering options for a PhD abroad, she is the daughter of a barely literate northern Thai woman who worked hard to put all three of her daughters through university. Do you think this woman should not be allowed to vote?

None of my grandparents finished high school, I have three university degrees and belong to two high IQ societies, and do not consider myself the equal of my grandparents who were denied opportunities they made available to me. Do you think my grandparents should have been denied the right to vote?

Are you presenting an argument for elitism that is both arrogant and ignorant?

The worst type of elitism is the one that is based on inheritance and descent.

Also one that based on education as that do not equates to intelligence. No one should be denied the right to vote if they are eligible, period.

I see this impeachment reform as the most important and urgent. It should not be decided by the NLA or Parliment as partisanship will skew the decision. A royal appointed impeachment tribunal consisting of neutral personalities would be better suited to preside and the verdict more acceptable to the people. If this reform is done right, we don't need protestors on the streets or a military coup to rid a corrupted Prime Minister.

To make me understand this, could you elaborate a bit, dear Eric?

Do you suggest that every time either NACC or Senate agrees on starting the impeachment process a Royally appointed Impeachment Tribunal should be setup?

If the PM is to be impeached will he/she make the Decree for H.M. the King to sign?

or are you suggesting that instead of NACC and Senate a new committee should be appointed every time someone likes to start an impeachment process?

Rubi, as you seen impeachment whether in Parliment or senate house is heavily influence by partisanship and the end result doesn't quell opposition and they go tithe streets.

Setting up a Royal Impeachment Tribunal is like a Royal Commission practiced in UK. An ad-hoc formal public process with considerable power greater than judge but restricted to the terms of reference of the commission. It can be created by the NLA and royally endorsed. This will provide legitimacy and most unlikely question the verdict.

This only for impeachment of important figures like the Prime Minister. I sincerely think if we have a better impeachment process, we don't need coup to rid corrupt PM. What you think?

I see this impeachment reform as the most important and urgent. It should not be decided by the NLA or Parliment as partisanship will skew the decision. A royal appointed impeachment tribunal consisting of neutral personalities would be better suited to preside and the verdict more acceptable to the people. If this reform is done right, we don't need protestors on the streets or a military coup to rid a corrupted Prime Minister.

Haven't seen any evidence of a scam. Bad policy, yes. Poorly managed, yes. Scam, no...I can;t see how Yingluck is implicated in this other than as the person running with a lousy policy.

When dishonest people, recruit coharts to develop poor programs, under the false promise for the betterment of the general public then, paid for using public funding and

and those funds end up missing, unaccouncted for, and/or in control of the dishonest group, etc, I believe scam, or even out right theft. could be construed as a true description.

Are you refering to the Thai Kheem Khaeg populist policy, the rice price guarantee scheme or the energy subsidies. All these fall under your description.

The way rubber prices are going, the poor would be better off selling the trees for the wood.. !!

Bad idea. Rubber wood prices are also going down and there are more supply than demand. Better the original idea to leave the trees alone and tap. At least this government provide some subsidy for latex but not the wood.

Come on reds . . . defend or excuse this . . . or will you finally accept that Thaksin/Yingluck/PT/UDD etc don't give a shit nor have they ever given a shit about "the poor" who they were allegedly "helping".

The only thing they were interested in was solidifying their power over "the poor" and enriching themselves obscenely whilst doing so. All in the guise of "democracy" . . . it's all one big <deleted> joke and so so many of you just can't see it still.

Oh, they can see it Tatsujin, they just can't admit it because they are either too stubborn and don't want to lose face, are too thick and just don't understand what is happening, are trolls and want to keep baiting and taunting people into arguments (eg. phipodon) or are paid to post crap.

The Shins have never cared about the poor, they were simply the cheapest and easiest way to buy their way into power/money ect. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Why all this innuedos unless you are baiting and taunting yourself. Why this off tangent posting when the subject is all about bad storage due to the extended storage period. If it is a storage problem, the owners of the warehouses will have to compensate the government. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

But, Eric, do you even have half a brain? You keep on denying that it was a PTP-organised scam, blaming everyone - eg warehouse owners - in a desperate bid to exonerate your beloved "Madame Yingluck". You are a pathetic and unconvincing psycophant.

Eric. This was the government warehouses!!!! Duh! Who is going to compensate whom, Eric?

Here is an extract of the NCPO statement on 13 August 2014 which may help you understand more about compensation - "NCPO will take legal action against warehouse owners and government officials in order to offset losses with some compensation".

PWO is a state owned enterprise like TA or PTT and is responsible for its own financial management. They will have to pay compensation back to the government. I hope they have insurance.

Also PWO has about 200 warehouses and could only store about 2 million tons. The bulk will be PWO contracted private warehouses which I think is in the region of 800 warehouses. They too will have to pay compensation for bad storage conditions which are part of the contract.

The Shins have never cared about the poor, they were simply the cheapest and easiest way to buy their way into power/money ect. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Agree, they use money to get into power to enrich themselves and their cronies while others use tanks and guns.

Neither cares much about the country as a whole or the poor.

Anyone with a quarter of a brain can see that.

Cheap stab at the military I see.

In a topic about the rice scam which the Yingluck government started and the military stopped and even tries to get corrected.

What was that about a 'quarter brain'?

You mean rice scheme not scam or fraud. I have never heard that from the NCPO audit team or any charges brought against Yingluck or her ex-ministers? Or are you holding back some information privy only to you.

You don't appear to be aware that 2 of the PT Commerce ministers were red carded, an action which will very likely lead to farther action against them.

Nor do you seem to have noticed that the NACC has recommended that charges be laid against Yingluck for negligence.

Once the audit of the inspections is complete and a report prepared at the end of next month and that is added to the evidence the NACC already has there can be little doubt farther charges will be laid from warehouse to (previous) cabinet level and probably beyond.

I have no problem agreeing with you on most points. As when the audit is completed and the inspectors found sufficient evidence of corruption or scam as most like to call, linking to anyone including Yingluck and cabinet ministers, throw the book at them. I detest corruption just like you whether which side there are from including the military. But as it is now, there are no charges or conviction and the charges as you correctly state should only be for negligence.

As for the red cards, those are from the EC and I can't see the connection with the rice scheme.

Come on reds . . . defend or excuse this . . . or will you finally accept that Thaksin/Yingluck/PT/UDD etc don't give a shit nor have they ever given a shit about "the poor" who they were allegedly "helping".

The only thing they were interested in was solidifying their power over "the poor" and enriching themselves obscenely whilst doing so. All in the guise of "democracy" . . . it's all one big <deleted> joke and so so many of you just can't see it still.

Oh, they can see it Tatsujin, they just can't admit it because they are either too stubborn and don't want to lose face, are too thick and just don't understand what is happening, are trolls and want to keep baiting and taunting people into arguments (eg. phipodon) or are paid to post crap.

The Shins have never cared about the poor, they were simply the cheapest and easiest way to buy their way into power/money ect. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

Why all this innuedos unless you are baiting and taunting yourself. Why this off tangent posting when the subject is all about bad storage due to the extended storage period. If it is a storage problem, the owners of the warehouses will have to compensate the government. Anyone with half a brain can see that.

But, Eric, do you even have half a brain? You keep on denying that it was a PTP-organised scam, blaming everyone - eg warehouse owners - in a desperate bid to exonerate your beloved "Madame Yingluck". You are a pathetic and unconvincing psycophant.

That's the kind of reply that really requires less than a quarter brain to come up. No rebuttal but just insults and completely devoid of substance. If you have evidence of scam, bring it up or qoute some references, not avoiding by giving an unintelligent reply.

And to add, we have 18 revised charters or constitutions. Each comes after a coup that abrogated existing constitution and promulgated new one. Only the 1997 constitution is the true reflection of a people charter because of its participative process involved in its drafting. Will the new charter involved broad participation and seek an referendum for endorsement? If not it will fail.

Are you saying it will fail because it might not be a good enough draft(?), or will fail to get approved? Whether or not there's 'broad participation' or a referendum, it can't fail to get approved - because if the NLA approve it (they will approve everything passed down to them from above), then it's a done deal.

Sorry if I confuse you. The new charter is not approved by the NLA but by the NRC after vetting by the Constituent Committee makeup of members from NCPO, NRC, cabinet and of course President NCPO. I am saying that it should also be vetted by the general public by a referendum to give the charter better legitimacy.

The impeachment is a NACC procedure that only need approval by the NLA. I sure it will go through a stringent shake-up. That's fine as it is apply to all parties and therefore a level playing field.

All very good. Especially this one:

He said NLA members who miss one-third of NLA meetings in 90 days would face impeachment.

Apply that to the real business/industrial world: would any company allow an employee to miss 90 days of work without being sacked? What if the NLA member misses only 89 days?

Thainess... No wonder this is a country that in spite of decades of massive foreign investment and know-how, continues in the tier of "nations in the process of developing."

And 19 coups had nothing to do with that? Since 1932, military governments have been in charge of Thailand longer than any civilian governments, the combined period approximates to 48 years worth of military rule.

And to add, we have 18 revised charters or constitutions. Each comes after a coup that abrogated existing constitution and promulgated new one. Only the 1997 constitution is the true reflection of a people charter because of its participative process involved in its drafting. Will the new charter involved broad participation and seek an referendum for endorsement? If not it will fail.

Correct, The Yingluck government said that and tried it.

Now to cut this back and forth short.

You wrote "disgust about the rice scheme only to come up with a rubber scheme, etc)."

and I replied

"It would seem both have something in common, the word "scheme".

So, will the 'rubber scheme" pay middle man, pay a price way above word price, no plans to limit volume and amounts, no plans for alternative crops, no plans for quality improvements? "

So, rice scam is not a subsidy, rice scam is not same as the rubber scheme.

Looks the same to me Rubi. Previous government pay a 10% over market price and subsidies 2,520B for every rai of rubber plantation. Total of 21B Baht was set aside to fund this scheme. Current government continue the funding with 6B Baht. And I wouldn't sue you for the misinformation.

Of course it looks the same ... to you.

A scam costing 700++ billion while having been presented as self-sufficient and a subsidy with limited costs.

Well, since you're so kind not sue me for telling the truth, I'll not sue you for half truths, not even for the typo's

Looks like the amount gets inflated every time it got mentioned by you. So now it's 700B +++ (for effect I suppose). You privy to the final NCPO audit or just guessing as always. Good to see no one got sued and no offensive word here. It should be in that spirit in TVF.

If it is a subsidy, which it is, the price will be, per definition, above the market price.

So please quantify "way above".

The scheme was presented as being self-sufficient. If it can be funded with a revolving fund it can hardly be seen as a subsidy, now can it?

It can only be self sufficient if you can corner the market resulting in higher world prices.

I heard that the thai government claimed that ability once before, and that was with rice.

Correct, The Yingluck government said that and tried it.

Now to cut this back and forth short.

You wrote "disgust about the rice scheme only to come up with a rubber scheme, etc)."

and I replied

"It would seem both have something in common, the word "scheme".

So, will the 'rubber scheme" pay middle man, pay a price way above word price, no plans to limit volume and amounts, no plans for alternative crops, no plans for quality improvements? "

So, rice scam is not a subsidy, rice scam is not same as the rubber scheme.

Looks the same to me Rubi. Previous government pay a 10% over market price and subsidies 2,520B for every rai of rubber plantation. Total of 21B Baht was set aside to fund this scheme. Current government continue the funding with 6B Baht. And I wouldn't sue you for the misinformation.