RuamRudy

Should all Holocaust deniers be imprisoned for their belief?

Just because something is written in law does not make it right. The Indian Salt Laws are a good example of that. I am not suggesting that there is an equivalence in the inherent unfairness of the laws, merely stating that simply being in the statute book doesn't automatically confer 'right'. Indoctrination goes on every day around the world, whether it's religious teaching or the dissemination of conspiracy theories and repugnant ideas. If she was inciting people to commit violence then I would agree that she deserves punishment but if it's simply the propagation of a belief then, no matter how unconscionable that belief is, I struggle to accept that this is a crime.

Yes that's what the article says. I read it. But that's not what she is being prosecuted for now. Do you really want to live in a world where we lock up people indefinitely because we don't agree with their beliefs? That sounds very totalitarian to me.

Not so much, but from what I have read she sounds like an odious individual. But being offensive and having repugnant opinions should not lead to prison per se. If she uses those views to incite criminal behaviour in others then that's a different issue but I am not sure that, in this case, she did that.

Fair enough that she has to face the music, but would you agree that, in this case, the law is unreasonable?

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. Voltaire

Yet London isn't even the worst affected area in England. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/knife-crime-up-7-per-cent-map-b2534853.html

Edinburgh is not really reflective of the rest of Scotland in many ways.

I haven't seen flares like that since, hmmm, the 1980s? We've been successful in mostly eliminating the scourge of football Violence, at least internationally.

Scottish 'yobbos' sing disrespectful songs. Real English yobbos smash up bars and riot in the streets with other football fans.

Nonsense. There were more Scottish landlords than not involved, all executed by Scottish Factors. There are many excellent reasons to abolish the monarchy but the clearances are not relevant to that debate.

Who is in charge of the prison service in England? The SNP routinely gets criticised (justifiably so) on the matter of the trans rapist who was held in a female prison in Scotland; James105 suggested that Starmer would inflict the same mistake on England - but he is ignorant of the fact that this has already occured in England under a Tory government.

This farcical situation (I am in full agreement with you in that respect) already exists in England. Take that up with your local Tory party, as it's the Tories who are responsible for this. "last year, when Karen White was sent to jail pending trial for rape, Karen White “identified” as a woman. So the Prison Service allowed Karen White to be housed in the female prison estate. And in HMP New Hall, Karen White sexually assaulted women. " https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-was-a-transgender-rapist-put-in-a-women-s-prison/ Scotland is (unfortunately) still part of the UK.

Such stunts also give governments tacit justification and general public approval to clamp down on freedom of expression and freedom of speech. It's almost as if these are false flag events designed to get us all to willingly give up our freedoms without a fight.

You seen to be contradicting yourself in this thread, old pal. Is it the just the SNP supporters or all of Scotland who has a go at the English?

I don't believe that the defeat of the Nazis was a solely English accomplishment.

Do you know the political affiliation of the fans in question or are you making unfounded assumptions? Why would any dislike of England, if it actually exists outside your head, manifest itself in disrespect to the queen of the united kingdom? She doesn't represent England alone.

I am sorry if it appeared that there was any form of judgment on my part. I fully respect the democratic decision taken at the time, and it is not my intention to point fingers at individuals who voted contrary to what I believe is best for my country (in fact I would say that the subsequent years have been without any significant recrimination or rancour). But it is disingenuous to suggest that those Scots who voted for independence are in the minority, an odd band of wode-clad fantasist rather than people from every walk of life, as has been the narrative from the unionist side. Everyone comes from different experiences and those experiences shape their world views. The SNP and the Yes campaign failed to convince enough of those who were brought up in other countries that Scotland's interests were best served when decided by Scottish people. If anything, the fault lies with the Yes campaign.

No, it was not a vote for Scottish people, it was a vote for people living in Scotland whether they considered it to be home or not. Analysis has shown that most people who were born in the country voted to leave the union, whereas most people born elsewhere voted to remain, and it was the latter which tilted the vote in favour of remain.

Ah, sorry, I was just foolish enough to think that you had read the posts that seemed to rile Jonnyf so much. Here is the point in a quick, digestible form: in the 2014 Scottish Independence referendum, the majority of voters who were born in Scotland voted for independence. In other words, most Scots born in Scotland rejected the UK.

Which one was that?

You seem quite upset that me and the majority of my countrymen consider that being in a union with you and your country is toxic and damaging to Scotland. I would have thought that since 2014 your leaders would have learned from it and actually lived up to their promises of a better, fairer and more equitable UK but sadly it is increasingly unfair and an increasingly nasty little hole of a place. It is not that nothing has changed since then - what was then bad has got markedly worse since then. So there we have it - the SNP will continue to have the largest number of MPs and the largest number of MSPs and we will be able to show clearly that it is not the Tories that is the problem, it is the UK as a whole - and that Scotland would be massively better off walking away from it.

Of course, when we discuss the SNP's decline, it is important to put it in context - prior to the dissolution of parliament the SNP held 73% of the seats in Westminster. They are currently predicted to return with around 60% of the seats. The Tories started with 11% and are predicted to return just one Scottish MP - one too many in most Scots' books, to be honest.

I did explain this to you previously but maybe you forgot? Independence referendum figures revealed: Majority of Scots born here voted YES while voters from elsewhere in UK said NO

When you say Scottish Nationalists, you really mean Scottish people, because don't ever forget that the majority of us voted to leave this rancid union in 2014.