EnglishJohn

They are all the same the junta is or has corrupt elements , and always will. Prayut you started a war on corruption , What happened ?

Nobody else supported him. He also made noises about reforming the tomato police but gave up on that idea as well. They aren't called tomatoes for nothing.

Prayuth can't do any of it himself. He has to delegate. And if nobody else down the chain wants to change anything, you can be sure nothing will happen.

But anyone who thinks the best option for Thailand is another bunch of dirty cronies, they are either on the take or aren't quite altogether there. They are the 'dinosaurs' whose 3rd-world corrupt Asian politics belong in the history books as part of the record of the countries embarrassing past.

The only hope for the country is to reduce the most extreme corruption (the sort which leads to a 310: amnesty vote) and hope over time the people will pressure future politicians to act in a more honorable and civilised manner.

However going by the level of comments I see here, I'm not holding my breath.

Red-shirts going out to protest about corruption : you just couldn't make it up.

LMAO - clearly an attempt to shift attention from their terrorist plot to assasinate the PM and others. They are doing the exact thing they accuse the government of doing. What a pair of hypocrites.

Why would they not wait until tomorrow after the report is published to see what the official position is first ?. It makes no sense.

There's the Russian go again, sticking they grubby paws into SE Asia by offering help with this and that

and by that, gaining a foot hold in poor countries like Cambodia... this is how they got into Syria in the

first place and now they get their ass kicked...

Really ?. I got the impression they are the ones kicking ass. Where do you get your news ?.

Russians are hard nosed and ruthless. If they want to do it, they will and don't care what anybody says. That's what is needed against Muslim terrorists : you can be sure none of them will get taxpayers legal aid in Russia to pursue murder charges against soldiers.

But they are a danger to the rest of the world otherwise. They will build this reactor if they want no matter what anybody else says. And you can be sure all the materials will be substandard. It will be a disaster waiting to happen in 10 or 20 years.

Police and NCPO sued by 'plotter' still in jail

Re: khon kaen plots and the like, if there is anyone out there who still doesn't realize that this self-appointed "PM" and his "government" just makes this stuff up, then please step forward...

Which bit are you having trouble with ?. Let me help:

This guy is on a list as a member of the red-shirt terrorist group. Someone got caught and implicated the group. So they issued arrest warrants for all of the known members.

Whoever did it was obviously unaware that this particular scumbag was already in prison.

It's called a mistake. You should know what that is : I expect you make many every day.

Quite how anyone can sue for someone issuing an arrest warrant I don't know. Being arrested simply means you are taken in for questioning. If they don't charge you they will let you go.

But carry on with the usual denial right up until something is proven. Then ignore it completely and deny the next thing. And repeat. And repeat. Just like the terrorist murders of 30 protesters. Who did that again ?.

Whether elected, through a coup or whatever means, any incumbent government simply lines their own pockets, ignores laws when it suits them and have complete disregard for the electorate.

While Thailand is completely soaked in corruption, to claim that politicians have complete disregard for the people/electorate is likewise a completely inaccurate (but not uncommon around here) statement. It is yet another line of anti-democratic propaganda which is designed to support juntas and undermine electoral politics. It is, on the other hand, a rather accurate way to describe the attitude of military juntas - certainly this one...

LMAO. You mean like the amnesty bill which was to benefit all the red-shirt foot soldiers who were just naive, gullible pawns in Thaksins Game of Thrones ?.

That's right : I mean the ones he threw under a bus when he changed the amnesty bill at the eleventh hour purely for his own benefit.

And you must mean when deputy PM Chalerm said "We don't have to worry about minorities. If they don't like it, they can vote us out next time".

And you must mean the ubiquitous rice scheme where money meant for poor farmers who really needed it got shamelessly stolen by politicians and their rich cohort businessmen ?. How many suicides because the money ran out ?.

Or that Pheu-Thai politician who used his permission to take a share of the cake and put substandard football pitches in all those schools. He took the money and they have some useless rubber mess ?.

I suppose your definition of 'caring for the electorate' means taking taxpayers money and giving it to their own supporters. That is your red-shirt definition of democracy. It worked great until the money ran out and then they tried to saddle those same taxpayers with huge off-budget loans for decades to come. Loans with no specific spending plan or proper control which would certainly have been gradually siphoned away into more schemes like the rice disgrace.

Don't worry about it though. If you had the stuff between your ears to see the world for what it is, you wouldn't be here posting vague and baseless anti-Junta red-shirt rhetoric. The future belongs to those Thais with more about them.

I will be taking part, though I have to say, it's a lot of fuss over a 20k ride. I've been cycling in a yellow shirt for a couple of weeks now, though it is a Tour de France winners yellow jersey, it's 'Royal' colour gets some response and it even feels like I have a bit more respect on the road than usual. Maybe worth a try for the keen cyclists out there.

well aren't you the wonderful one

No , not really. But who knows? Maybe a little exercise might help YOU grow a more likable personality. It's funny how leading an active and healthy lifestyle seems to illicit such contempt and resentment among some types.

He would never be able to ride a bike with the huge chip on one shoulder.

So, how to manipulate election results in three easy steps:

Step one, introduce a lifetime ban for anyone jailed for a political offence under the junta's draconian laws.

Step two, start rounding up political aspirants and jail them on some pretext.

Step three, now that you've effectively banned most of your opposition, have the election.

And, if that's not enough, they've even allowed for the "no" votes winning!

On top of this, we are told that the ban would not apply for "minor" offences such as defamation. Yet, in a recent TV posting, we have two people facing up to 8 years jail on charges including libel (http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/facebookers-face-8-years-in-jail-for-criticizing-thai-cops/122205/).

Oh dear. I see what you did there : you thought the Junta were doing this so they could then jail all the opposition MP's before the next election so only the ones they want are left ?. Is that as far as your 'vision' goes ?.

Goodness - this politics stuff is all a bit too much for you to get your head around isn't it ?. Let me explain : it is part of reforms to keep proven criminals out of Parliament for future governments.

Lets see how many Pheu-Thai politicians get jailed before the election without good reason. I can tell you now the answer will be NONE. All of them deserve to be behind bars though for grossly abusing their power for personal benefit during the amnesty disgrace. Every one who voted 'yes' should be banned from politics for life IMHO.

The ones who will abuse this law the most are certainly Pheu-Thai. Thaksin is famous for using lawsuits and litigation to get rid of his political enemies. He even uses them to keep his cronies in line and let them know what will happen if they disobey. I remember a story where one of them got on his knees in public and begged Thaksin to withdraw it. That would have made the little goblin feel very good. Sure they will all try it (I said that to help you with this very simplistic view you have on the world) but he will use it as a standard tool in his box.

The best paid job is Thailand is going to be the appeals court. Any politician given jail-time at the first session is going to rush to put his ill-gotten gains into pastry boxes for the appeals court.

Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha said that at this point he did not think Udomdej should be held responsible for the wrongdoings of others, even his subordinates.

Is that precisely the opposite of the position on Yingluck.. No one is saying she stole or miss used any more from the rice scheme only that she was responsible for it oversight ??

Which bit of "Yingluck knew exactly what was going on and did nothing about it" don't you understand ?.

She was complicit in the corruption. That makes it criminal. It's called gross negligence.

It sounds like this guy is just incompetent and his subordinates ran rings round him. He should be held responsible for his misjudgement and sacked and they should be prosecuted for corruption just as the lower-life down from Yingluck should.

But if you think his situation is the same as Yingluck's, you don't really understand all this 'politics' stuff do you ?.

The junta is scared of democracy and anything that reminds people of it.

Their paranoia requires them to discredit this invitation. First it was a fake. When it was clearly not a fake, it became "private and personal" and not "official".

The text of the letter is here, and it is clearly official. The junta is in a bind - they let her go and then democracy and Yingluck get in the headlines or they don't let her go and the nature of a military regime is exposed.

About paranoia... It was never said it was clearly a fake, it is addressed to a private person, it is from two individual EMPs on EP paper, it is NOT official from the EP, it is nor EP nor EU issuing an official invite to Yingluck, twist it and turn it as you want, but NO, ...and even 'Thai at Heart' admitted it yesterday!

Admit what? In their capacity as MPs, it's an official invite.

All this hair splitting is pitiful.

You think making a differential between two EU MP's making a personal invite with no agreement or consultation with the rest of the Parliament and an official invite from the EU Parliament requesting Yingluck to go and address them all in an official capacity is splitting hairs ?.

IT'S A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

There. Maybe shouting can help it in any circumstance where it needs to penetrate 6 inches of bone protecting a walnut.

The whole of this Shins' PTP's PR campaign (IMO rather 'agit prop') was organised around, in a nutshell: Yingluck being (officially) invited by the EU (or the EP).

What it would indeed have been when on EP paper, one or the both EMP(s) would have addressed and undersigned the letter in his/their quality of respectively president, and/or secretary general and head of the foreign affairs committee.

It has clearly appeared though she was (informally, as no date set) invited (indeed) by 2 out of 751 EMPs, in their (personal, individual) quality of EMP, no less, no more.

Same-same? Not at all so! Be assured these two weathered politicians know very well what huge difference it makes, ...and why they did it this way. As for getting the EP, as an EU institution, to caution such an invite, it would have needed a long, difficult, controversial process of (political) agreement within the whole EP, to be absolved.

For the rest, each of us may, should, have an opinion (hopefully of its own), but, please, posters here, do show some respect for the undeniable truth of the facts!

The question remaining open is: why did these two EMPs do it?

Some could be 'inclined'(?) to think it were high ideals, deep democratic feelings or a vivid interest for Thailand these two were motivated by (may I sincerely put this in doubt).

Others though (like me) might think the whole thing was a set-up arranged by (a) lobbyist(s) working for some (unknown...?) client(s) (which would be in line with, alas, quite common practices inside the EP), for this client(s) to use it to start an PR offensive attempting to create a diversion to give some shelter (and an illusion of credibility) to a certain Ms called Yingluck for what's (deservedly IMO) hanging above her head (and 'the wallet' of her family).

Another significant thing about this story is how most of the Thai press joined in and claimed it was indeed the EU Parliament which invited her.

Either they did not give the story any due diligence about the facts before going to press or they were deliberately playing along with the game and the whole thing is one big PR stunt. Given how I have come to realize that almost every organisation which can affect a governments popularity has the tentacles of corruption in it here, I personally suspect the latter.

So... is he going home?

They tend not to

Usually the 'yankee go home' mantra needs to be augmented with a good few thousand dead US military

then, indeed they do

Yup! And what a memorial scene it was when the US went home from Vietnam...

Not correct. If you think the Army gave up in Vietnam because of casualties, you should read some history before attempting to make comments on it.

They usually go back home when the media concentrate on the stray bombs which killed some civilians and it gets plastered all over the news.

Then the people who they were fighting go back to slaughtering their political or religious enemies by the thousand in the most barbaric manner with nobody to stop them - but those same liberals don't feel any guilt about that for some reason and the media don't report it because they caused it.

If she can not leave the country, does that make her a prisoner ?

No.

LMAO. What a stupid question.

Yes, how shameful to take an infants DNA.

Meanwhile in other news, terrorists murdered more innocent buddhist teachers and rubber tappers in cold blood and burned their freshly slain corpses on the street where they fell. Neither The Nation or Bangkok Post saw fit to cover any of these stories other than a small article for a single day. The local Muslim population did not say a single word to condemn the attacks.

Now remind me, which one is shameful ?. These people make me sick.

"We were peaceful and unarmed in 2010 but the Army just started shooting us."

"Suthep is throwing grenades at his own protestors to get sympathy."

Every time something like this happens we get angry denials. But the result is always the same. Red-shirts using violence and terrorism them shamelessly denying it right up until it is proven.

All historical precedents and the semi-literate sputter some people here have been ranting on about for months indicate the UDD would attempt more terrorism. And now I see we are getting the standard denials and attempts to shift the blame.

Why should we think any different this time ?.

You all know this story is completely credible. And when it is proven, you will suddenly ignore it like all the others. Hypocrisy is not strong enough for what I see.

actually she was deposed by the courts not the military but dont let the truth get in the way of you whinge, the military took over after she had been removed by the courts when the ptp refused to stop their "red" terrorists from killing people indiscriminately. Strangely enough the military then rounded up all the killers/weapons that the ptp/their police lackies were unable to find/stop but then the truth is avoided by all the shin lovers/apologists

The key word being deposed. Show was deposed and later impeached by a military backed organ. Your as guilty in your hate as any Shin lover. Reconciliation is just not going to happen in Thailand.

She was not deposed. She was found guilty of abuse of power for illegally replacing the head of the NSC with a close family friend with the intention of railroading an amnesty bill through for her own brother.

Before you deny it, go listen to the Thaksin audio tape again. And forget calling it a fake : you tried that at the time and that little excuse has since been proven a lie by Thaksin's son no less.

If that is not abuse of power I don't know what is. Or do you think it's OK to do that ?. Or will you ignore it because it doesn't fit your agenda ?.

You finally got something right though. Reconciliation is never going to happen. Red shirts have been programmed that the 'Bangkok Elite' have stopped them getting all the taxpayers money which they seem to think is rightfully theirs because they won an election. Right or wrong (just like in the Yingluck case above) have nothing to do with it. Your bitter response to a comment which is basically correct is proof enough for me.

If everyone keeps going to the appeals court, why not just do-away with the lower courts all together (and save everybody time and money)?

The main court is there to scare them with a jail term then the resultant pastry boxes will be freely available during the panic of appeal.

It's quite astounding how many sentences get squashed on appeal. Either the main court Judges are truly incompetent to make so many bad decisions or something funny is going on.

They really just can't help themselves, can they? They have to blame anything and everything on Red Shirts and UDD, no matter what it is or who is involved.

Going on the fact that every single act of terror and intimidation I have seen in the last 10 years that was not Muslims has been red-shirts, I think it is a pretty safe bet. And there have been many.

But you always deny it just like you are trying to do now. Like when you tried to claim Suthep was throwing grenades at his own people. Another lie exposed.

If the cap fits, wear it.

military then rounded up all the killers/weapons that the ptp/their police lackies were unable to find/stop but then the truth is avoided by all the shin lovers/apologists

nice try but what nonsense - bet you believe it's 'All About Rice' right?

Nonsense ? - what's wrong with you ? - you seem to be unable to grasp any concept of truth.

Thailand was under a caretaker government and Yingluck was long gone already for abuse of power in illegally replacing the head of the NSC with Lt Paradorn - a close family friend of Thaksin and who the audio tape proved was placed there ready to railroad an amnesty law through.

Which bit is nonsense ?. Blatant lies might be OK on your red-shirt forums but when you do it here, you make yourself and all your ilk look like liars who will say anything that suits them. That's why we mostly disregard anything else you say as a probable lie as well.

Or do you think that they are just "white lies" and therefore acceptable ?.

I wonder what his definition of the word democracy is as it seems to be very different from mine.

Yes. My definition is very different from yours as well.

Mine is from being well educated whilst growing up in the UK which had one of the best and most successful democracies in the world (though I don't pretend for one minute is was anywhere near perfect).

It is my opinion that Prayuth is doing his best to try and put Thailand on the road to something similar. You obviously want something different because you oppose him every step of the way.

It is quite ridiculous to send a letter to demand a free box of whisky. Even the most basic corrupt official would never put a demand like that in writing and actually sign it.

But how many people do you think believe it ?.

This is the problem for Thailand. Those people don't care about what might or might not be true. They just believe what they want to believe. That's what Thaksin meant when he said you can easily win their hearts : just tell them the right lies.

Pretty obvious it is not an official UE invitation if it had no seals or stamps to indicate it as such. Given the world sees YL and even Thaksin as political targets it is easy to make the assumption that this invitation has nothing to do with the UE. At any rate, with YLs pending court hearing she should not be allowed to leave unless the current gov sees it as a way to be rid of her. In which case they should make her pay a surety bond of a few hundred billion baht.

Its on official paper. What do you want? Candlewax and a cygnet ring?

Believe it or not, unlike in Asia, not everything has to have a stamp to be official......If you think PTP is going around forging letterheads, then they really are playing with fire.Letters from Mps, Presidents and PMs all over the world are sent with no stamp.

A signature is sufficient....

Did you see the EU presidents signature on there ?.

The point you are missing is that it is not an official invitation from the EU Parliament. It is from two blokes who work there asking her informally.

I'm afraid you missed the point once again. Nobody is saying Pheu-Thai have forged the letterhead. They are saying these two guys have been put up to it. The most compelling evidence is that the language they use is more like Asians style rhetoric than anything I normally see in the West, but I wouldn't expect any Thai to realise that.

Is this about the fate of these two Chinese dissidents or the sudden U turn in allies? Thailand is warming to China much more, I think the U.S is regretting it's decision to not recognize the Leadership of PM Prayuth early on. With Ambassadors running up and down, Obama chatting to Prayuth, it's obvious that the U.S is desperate stop the China relationship with Thailand so that the U.S has a foothold in South East Asia. The recent South China Sea Sprately Island dispute between the U.S and China gives much thought to the fight over allies in this part of the world.

The USA don't give a stuff about these 2 people apart from the propaganda value. World politics knows no shame.

The USA want Thaksin back because then they know they can do anything they want over here as long as the goblin has a hand (and a cut) in the middle of it. But I think they are realising it isn't going to happen so they are dealing with what they have got for the reasons you stated. They don't give a dam about 'democracy' or how many Thais kill other Thais. They stand by and watch much worse in other countries.

An excellent example of their policy towards this region over the years is in the book 'Korean War' by Max Hastings which I just finished.

Pray tell how that book sheds light on American policy towards the region?

I've read the book, and while a pretty good account of the military action Hastings barely touches on the strategic aims of the war. In point of fact his main point was the total lack of strategy, and points more to the ineptitude of MacArthur and the Truman administrations overall discomfort with him being in charge, to which they attributed the mission creep. he also, i think rightly points out that many of the true thinkers in the administration understood the complexities of the post WW2 era, something a MacArthur & his middle American logic couldn't come to terms with

As usual, I don't know how you do it but you seem to be able string together totally unconnected facts, throw in a Thaksin or two and spew out something without any real factual basis.

Not sure if you thought actually quoting a real book somehow gave one of your 'rants' some added validity, but next time find something a bit more obscure that no-one will have read, or in your more usual style just make it up!

It seems you only read the bits about the war in that book. Did you skip the chapters on the politics as being a bit too deep for you ?. My comment has NOTHING to do with the war itself.

Go read up on what they did with Syngman Rhee, how they supported him to be elected as a democratic leader then turned a blind eye to what he did to his people. He simply murdered anyone who he thought might be communist and his corruption was outrageous. Yet they stood by him and defended him because they got what they wanted : free access to send troops and prevent it falling to the communists. While his country was at war, he only concerned himself with his own power and position at home regardless of how many died.

It also then touches how they failed to learn from this policy and did the same thing in Vietnam.

Did you even read the book ?. Maybe you missed a lot of the more subtle points because it doesn't have any pictures.

Any news on the shirt colours yet ?. No mention in any reports.

I don't like to make comments until I know the full facts.

Maybe this was the uprising ?. I expected more than three - was there a problem with the wire-transfer ?.

I bet there are thousands of Thais watching the rivers today to do that very same thing.

Where is the cutoff where it does not restore bad luck to their souls ?. Midnight ?.

Looking forward to the report where the local Muslims are so outraged at someone murdering others in their community that they hold protests on the streets and turn the murderers in.

Because people keep telling me it's not about religion.