NativeSon360

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

I think you are referring to the story of Mexican Fisherman and CEO of a big company. 
http://bemorewithless.com/the-story-of-the-mexican-fisherman/

I have been stopped to think that question myself while traveling through SAE. Is there a real reason to go beyond the home village? I don't really know. 
 

However I do remember the urge to make computer code, while I was traveling and working as a divemaster in the paradise (Honduras 2001). The "what is here; is picture perfect" was just not enough to fill the need. 

We all have been altered by our cultures; and have been altered again by the new cultures we have encountered during our voyages. 

The curiosity to learn more is, in my opinion, the reason to go forward. For most of the people, who don't speak English as native language, learning English becomes the key to open doors; to open the doors to the wide world of other's knowledge. 

That's the reason, why English should be taught to the kids around the world, today. That's also the reason why French was taught some 100 years back and Mandarin is likely to be taught in the future. 

 

The ability to discernibly communicate in a second language is never actually taught. It is simply the acquisition of language skills, gained through the phenomenon of environmental exposure, and the development of language proficiency, by means of a process known as "automaticity".  Automaticity is metaphorically akin to gradual step-by-step process of moving oneself from the shallowest, to the deepest end of the swimming pool, during the learning "how to swim" process.

On a per capita basis, Thailand has more educational TV channels, more available (low-cost) general education facilities and institutions, per square kilometer, that all the other SE Asia nations combined. Now, ignorance ( generally) may well be considered as a blissful state of being, but in the Kingdom of Thailand, it is certainly not an excusable state of being.

Thai people, who sincerely want to learn, manage to get an excellent "Global Citizen" level education, regardless the size of their bank account. I have middle-income Thai neighbors, of whom are testimonial proofs of those facts.. 

Thus the designated title English language "teacher, rather than English language "facilitator" is a misnomer. indeed!

22 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Let's break this education discussion to different parts.

 

1) How important is English and how much students should spend to learn it?

- English is currently the facto Esperanto. Spoken widely around the world and it acts as the language of sciences. Very important.

- Kinds have many things to learn. Spending 5% of the time learning English during the school years should be enough. There are many other languages to learn as well. 

2) What qualifies an teacher?

- IMHO, one with masters degree of pedagogy + advanced studies of the specific subjects the person is going to teach.

- This means 4+ years of University studies, after 12 year basic education

- TELF etc. certifications allows native speakers to talk to the kids, it doesn't make them teachers

 

3) What kids should study during their primary and secondary stages?
- Kids should have basic knowledge of the world. How societies work, how biology, physics, chemistry works. Basic understanding of arts, maths and geometry. Knowledge of both local and world history. Not to forget the physical education - it should be mostly fun and games, to relax the mind.

 

4) How to get students to learn?

- Motivation is alway the key. One of the main objects for the teacher's is to get kids motivated. Kids are clever, but naturally lazy and they feel what is important for them and what is not. If the teacher fails to make the kids to feel, that his or hers subject is actually and in reality important for the kids future.. the teacher has failed the job. Kids will never really learn from such an teacher.

 

That's why the TELF teacher's should not be allowed to referred as 'foreign teachers', without proper pedagogic education. 

5) Is native speaker English teacher better than local teacher?
- I would say NO.  Local teacher, who really understands where the kids come from, their pattern of thinking and learning and what kind of challenges they are struggling with, as well as can quickly answer questions in Thai, is much better educator than a foreign teacher. Now go back to number 2 to see what I mean by local teacher. 

 

Your points are well-made, and I totally agree with all of them. However,  English is important only to those Thai people who's personal horizons extend beyond the flat-world of Thailand.

As previously stated, the average Thai does not need to speak one syllable of English, to successfully develop, and then maintain a "respectable" lifestyle, in The Kingdom of Thailand .

8 minutes ago, JIMJFOX said:

Lived in Norway, Holland, Turkey, Spain, Australia, New Zealand. Thailand is nowhere near the levels of the first four. 

Their English is taught in primary school & continued until fluency is universal. 

Thai written language is a disaster, a pile of paperclips. 38 vowel sounds? Another disaster. NO country needs English

more than Thailand. As for learning Thai, who else uses it? NOBODY!! 

Charming- yes; useful? NO! 

Again, please keep in mind, that the average Thai person does not need to speak English, in order to maintain a "respectable" lifestyle in Thailand. That's an non-disputable fact!

Everyone, please keep in mind, that the average Thai person does not need to speak English, in order to maintain a "respectable" lifestyle in Thailand. That's an non-disputable fact!

8 minutes ago, michaellee said:

yes, I'm Asian Canadian they say I'm not a native speakers, I've been in Canada almost 30 years and was speaking english way before I migrated.  I told them well, your teacher can't even compose a sentence and everyday common vocab, so don't tell me I'm not good enough. 

So why not just lie, and tell those idiots that you were "born in Canada", especially since your honestly is (apparently) "counter-productive", eh? Now, go get the job, and best wishes. Cheers!

6 minutes ago, michaellee said:

HAHAHAHA!!! This is very funny.  I did two classes and the Thai students are hopeless, they don't pay attention ,they think Thai language is the Master of all languages, they are not interested have no passion in learning another language, even basic english words I ask them what is "Breakfast"? seriously they replied MAI ROO for grade 4. 

No! It's not funny. And you are a poor excuse of an educator for having made that comment. Shame on you!

1 hour ago, petedk said:

 

 

You have hit the nail on the head.

You can give them 10 hours a week, but it won't help if they are not interested.

 

Thai students have every opportunity to learn English if they want. The internet is full of videos and webpages where they can learn English. It is true however that TV and radio lack English content. I am sure when I came here 20 years ago I heard much more English on the radio and I remember watching some films on TV in original soundtrack and with Thai subtitles. Most of that has disappeared now.

 

I met a taxi driver on Sunday and I was really surprised as to how much English he could speak and with a very good accent. He showed me a little notebook he had where he had written down all the words he needed to know. He knew many the American version of many British words. His sentences were long and (mostly) grammatically correct. I believe he spoke better English than a few English teachers at our university, but obviously he doesn't have a master's degree or PhD in English so he can't choose that profession.

 

It just goes to show that if the student wants to learn English they can if they make an effort.

 

 

50 years ago, the average Thai was far better educated, with only a P-6 level public school achievement, prior to being forced to work in the rice patty, to support their family.

Apparently, the Thai elite are (as usual) copying the American/British way of "governing" the masses.Many accolades are due to Pink Floyd, for brilliantly conveying the message, back in 1979. Way to go, chaps

On 8/29/2016 at 6:17 PM, petermik said:

Why why why do people do these things......

I believe that was more of a rhetorical question, on your part,  was it not?........

2 minutes ago, bubba1 said:

Wrong. 

No! You're wrong!

How can any intelligent human being possibly "like" those insane comments, made by such an ignorant restaurant owner?  Despite the reputed sophistication of the French, apparently they too, have their fair-share of morons, eh?

27 minutes ago, Lingba said:

 

Classic...and the truth

Excellent. Thanks for sharing.

2 minutes ago, Hawk said:

Thai students are not willing to learn so this will go nowhere as usual.

Thai students are not encouraged to learn, being that the system treats them like little automaton, goose-stepping soldiers, who are actually afraid to ask a question in class. I truly pity the children of Thailand, in that regard.

1 hour ago, lostinisaan said:

"We picked 350 teachers who are considered to be the cream of the crop for English boot camp training," said the official.

 

From there, the best 28 teachers will be chosen as master trainers and will be spread out around the country to 18 English-teaching facilities where school administrators and educators in the nearby area can receive training from the centers.

 

The millions of tourists who visit Thailand each year usually face little difficulty in communicating because they mostly interact with hotel staff, salespeople in malls and markets, and other tourism-related staff who would have learned the language on the job

 

It's not just the lack of good English speaking Thai teachers that makes the whole system to a big joke.

 

  So, 28 Super teachers will finally change the whole system and will be "spread around" the country? 

 

   These people do not seem to know how it is to walk into a Thai classroom, even the grade one kids know that they can't fail.

 

   The two classes of grade six I've got for an hour a week, can't even write their names in English, they don't understand the easiest questions after "studying English" for more than five years......

 

 If there's a meeting at our school it's always conducted in Thai, nobody wants to lose face and that's where the problem is.

 

  How can teachers teach kids English if they can't even speak a few words in a meeting? 

 

  I know quite a lot of teachers who've got a Master's in English, but can't even understand very easy English. Our grade six teacher's using 95 % of Thai in her English lessons.

 

  After the CEFR dilemma where it turned out that most, or at least too many of them were under A 2 level, it was all in a sudden changed into successful and satisfying results? 

 

To understand what a CEFR A 2 level English is, it's about the level of a 6, or 7 year old native English speaking kid.

 

   Here's an article from last year where they thought it would "boost" the peoples' ability in English, but....

 

      https://asiancorrespondent.com/2015/04/thai-schools-adopt-european-framework-to-boost-english-language-proficiency/

 

    Even the little kids know that they'll come to the next grade and nobody fails. Would a foreign teacher really submit the grades the students deserve, the foreigner would be jobless.

 

     All students receive a minimum of at least 60 %, nobody fails and even students at high schools who never attended class, pass the final test.

 

    A classic example at a well -known high school in lower north east, when it turned out that too many grade 12 students failed their tests made by their foreign teachers and the ones from Bangkok.

 

    A one weekend "immersion camp" and all students had the right grades. I could go on and on and on, but that's not changing anything.

 

  Let the guys who want to become English teachers study abroad, they do come back and speak good English and they don't lose face anymore.

 

 Allow all students from grade one to 12 to ask their teachers questions if they don't understand a lesson. A teacher can't lose face by not knowing the right answer. 

 

Even Einstein made the statement : "I know that I know nothing.". Do Thais understand the meaning of the sentence? 

 

Let the students fail who think they can do what they want and let them repeat the school year and they'll change their attitude. 

 

  If  English teachers, including foreigners aren't able to score at least C 1 in a CEFR test, then don't let them teach English.

 

   If a flight attendant who usually speaks more than two languages has to have at least B +, how can a guy with a TOEIC under 600 be able to teach English? 

 

   But it seems that nobody really wants to know what's going on. Blame others for it. 

 

   

 

      

 

      

 

     

 

 

 

   

 

   

Haven't you figure out the Thai style yet? Don't you know that Thais are a  perfectly evolved people, who are never wrong about anything?  How dare you criticize the Thai education system. After all The Rajabhat University system has been cranking-out Thai (English) teachers for nearly 40-years now.

6 minutes ago, JAG said:

 

The budget has probably been completely "managed".

Right on the money,

38 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

I felt the need to escape the twilight zone for the past few days so have been in Siem Reap and their knowledge of English is quite refreshing. Even the tuk tuk boys have a grasp. 

Indeed! Many Cambodians also learning to (un_officially) speak Mandarin, as well. Very, very smart

The British began teaching English in Thailand (Bangkok Christian School, 1852) , and that was 70 years prior to the British officially teaching English within their own colonies of Burma & Malaya. 

International travelers are hard-pressed to find an English-speaking Thai person, even with a university degree, @ either of Bangkok's International Airports, 164-years later.

The Thai Ministry of Education officials will probably spend the next 10-years, just talking about how to implement productive change, within the public education system. Don't hold your breaths, waiting for that active epiphany to blossom. 

11 hours ago, kannot said:

i hope they bought a maintenance package too

What a ridiculously unnecessary comment. Phew!

4 hours ago, FitnessHealthTravel said:

As an Australian I am embarrassed at how pathetic my Country has become. It will pay...one day and our kids will be studying Political Correctness in Schools as the downfall of Western Society.

The evolved pathetic nature of the Australian government, has absolutely nothing in common with the current topic thread. Take a few more steps backwards, then take another look @ what actually transpired. Perhaps it takes a non AU or NZ citizen to see it more "clearly", .........eh?

11 hours ago, MockingJay said:

All regular Marihuana user I know and/or ever have worked with were: 
1) Ineffective

2) Lots of talk, but no action

3) Unreliable

4) Slow (acting AND thinking)
5) Irresponsible

6) Always had an excuse for their own shortcomings, mostly others were to blame
7) Partial or complete disconnection from reality
8) Telling others what they "SHOULD" do, i.e. become vegetarian, vegan, etc. while themselves living an utterly unhealthy lifestyle (party all night sleep at work, drinking, Ganja, smoking, I don't need a helmet, etc.)
9) Complete overinflated self esteem (most were complete losers to be honest)
10) Changing jobs frequently, always someone else to be blamed for that
11) Unhappy and edgy whenever "sober"... (which basically means whenever they had to physically work)

Sure - legalize that stuff and make sure that the world tumbles even deeper into stupidity...

It is impossible for the human beings to stumble deeper into stupidity. The species definitely reached it's apex, in that regard, a very long-time ago,  just in case you haven't noticed......... 

Apparently, your peculiar exposure to marijuana (ahem, marihuana) smokers is quite limited, indeed.

6 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Australia - fast becoming one of the champions of Political Correctness.

 

The man shouts an Islamic slogan, in Arabic, that is often shouted by Islamic terrorists as they attack and kill non Muslims, whilst he attacks and murders non Muslims.

 

Yep, no sign of any extremism there. Aussie cops are either dumb or totally controlled by their political masters. 

Get real. Those maniacs kill approx. 90 times more Muslims (globally), while shouting that same Allahu Akbar slogan. So give it your non-Muslim  "cry-baby" rest, for a change. Eh?

I salute the courageous effort made by Mr. Jackson. Perhaps you might try to do the same, while mourning the loss of his life, instead, as a result of his humanitarian  effort. 

2 minutes ago, JayBeeee said:

I've done a fair amount of drinking in my time, mostly in my youth, and I hate what I bacame and what it did to me. I consider alcohol to be one of the most evil drugs in existsence. It causes horrible brain damage and, when mixed with an abundance of testosterone and little intellect, it's a killer and otherwise destroyer of lives, families and relationships; usually not only of the addict, but those of others around him or her.

I'm certainly a better person, more open minded, considerate, creative and free thinking since discovering ganja in my late teens. I'm not a blabbering, brain-dead basket case, as most in here who have had no experience of it seem to think I must be. I've been smoking ganja all my adult life and I'm highly unlikely to stop; though I do for long periods of time without the any craving or other side-effects. I'm certainly not going to ask anyone's permission or be told I'm 'allowed' to do whatever I choose to do with my own body and life.

But I think I've said all this already within the past week in another thread about the police speaking favourably about medicinal marijuana; or did I dream it?

Don't waste your time, or money. You do not need to speak, like a a native speaker, in order to speak clear, discernible English.

If fact, one of the best learning platforms is simply "practicing" your current level of English pronunciation with other people, who have also learned English as a second, or even a third language.

As an American, I actually built my own English vocabulary base by speaking with work colleagues, whom had learned English, as a second language, many years ago. So, don't be afraid to speak the English that you currently know, even to so-called native speakers. They could, in-turn, also learn some English from you, as well. Ok?

Coffee shop gatherings are really the best classroom venues available, and only for the price of a cup of coffee. Try it. You may like! Best wishes, and cheers!

6 hours ago, nisakiman said:

Since you seem to think that what you have read in 'The Daily Trash' is superior to Prof Molimard's assessment, perhaps a little further reading on your part is in order.

 

www.forces.org/evidence/download/nicotine_addiction.pdf

 

 

http://wings.buffalo.edu/aru/ARUreport03.html

 

You can adopt your smug and sarcastic attitude all you like, but I'm afraid it still doesn't make you right, whatever you may think.

Trying to act superior in the face of facts just makes you appear foolish.

All that I know to be factual, is what I have personally experienced, and witnessed first-person, in 75 years of living. Thus, I have no need to quote (w/links) Professor "this" person ,or Doctor "that" person, as a means of validating my knowledge-base, especially to total strangers.

I have absolutely nothing to prove to  anyone, on any debate platform, sir! Obviously, you do have something to prove! Rest assured, you have definitely succeeded, on the TVF, 100% guaranteed! Are you happy now, huh?

Finally, you have the audacity to label someone "else" with having a ""smug and sarcastic attitude", eh? Take a long look @ yourself, while becoming self-un-constipated in the process, blokey!

Now,..............adios!

13 hours ago, nisakiman said:

 

Sorry. Nicotine is not addictive at all. That's just propaganda, and you've swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

 

 

http://cagecanada.blogspot.gr/2010/12/beliefs-manipulation-and-lies-in.html

 

Pardon my ignorance,  If Professor Robert Molimard states that Queen Elizabeth I was totally misguided, about her chiding Sir Walter Raleigh for importing the "scourge" of the tobacco smoking addiction to Britain, back in1590, then whatever Professor Molimard has to say on the topic, is (of course) the "undisputed" gospel truth. Thanks for the education update! Cheers!    

11 minutes ago, Deepinthailand said:

 

Indeed, you are Deep, in Thailand