Lancashireman

Nope. The photo I provided is of the front AND back (hint: look at where the camera is on the two images). Re: internal wiring. You're imagining things.

BS, this is the photo of an iPhone 4s that you posted:

post-246493-0-70035300-1456058875.jpeg

On the left side it shows the inside of the rear panel and on the right the back of the phone with the battery in place.

If you are going to be dishonest at least try to do it in less blatant way.

AleG, look closely: on the left image (the front of the phone), the phone's camera is top right; on the right image (the back of the phone), the phone's camera is top left. Undertand now?

iphone-4s-half-thumb.JPG

AleG...schoolboy error. A little climb down apology might be in order?

Putting a hair, or semen sample in a lab work order is certainly possible- and chain of custody can be simply forged- easy as pie.

So why do that AND mess up the lab work ( which would require some cooperation among staffers, too )

In fact the more I think about this case, the more I think the boys were involved in some way- or one of them specifically, maybe not the murder, but the initial stages of the rape.
Just seems like maybe the boys will be boys- rape the farang party thing got out of hand. A third party. The locals weren't killing victims before- this case is different from some factor not yet even touched upon.

Moonsterk, yes I too believe one if not both of the young men were in some way involved, now carrying the can for the whole crime...
They have everything loaded against them, short of additional parties admitting guilt, they might have a commuted sentence at appeal.

< snip >

I honestly wish the police had done a stellar job but unfortunately they didn't, I have for many months kept an open mind to this case and to an extent I am neither in the guilty or innocent camp - but I need to see certain things that would apply in a modern evolved justice system and it just isn't happening with this case, a catalog of errors (and they are errors) leaves me unconvinced, I come from a background of knowing about these things and sometimes I wish I didn't, are B2 guilty ? well by any standards I am aware of or in fact common sense - then for me it is impossible to conclude that B2 are guilty, that conclusion could be from a purely lawful point of view but it is not just purely about that - there is just something that stinks really bad about this whole thing

good night

All a bit melodramatic, this isn't about you and your burden. Try the victims families, they have to cry forever.

But I agree the two lads are picking up the tab for a catalogue of disastrous errors, so I guess their burden is even greater? But they were probably in the vicinity of the crime, so by association, they're in the frame...

claim and counter claim over the phone , likewise the DNA , and yet Nomsod and his family remain in the frame for the majority of ppl here . Go figure . Must be quite frustrating

Quite possibly, but without incriminating evidence...yes, quite frustrating.

I think the 'entente' on the beach was witnessed by the two young convicted men, possibly including themselves to free deserts....the rest was easy. Probables exempted, possibles inserted, cash for secrets sorted, job done...

The court, at the moment, holds all the aces...

...go figure!

In one sentence you say,

Yes, it is highly probable they were there.

It is also probable that they took part in the "activities ".

Then make a smart remark as if the court was not doing its job in some way.

On the contrary, greenchair, the court did process what it was offered. It's all the other external influences that directed where this case was to go.

The court hasn't finished yet...by a long way.

claim and counter claim over the phone , likewise the DNA , and yet Nomsod and his family remain in the frame for the majority of ppl here . Go figure . Must be quite frustrating

Quite possibly, but without incriminating evidence...yes, quite frustrating.

I think the 'entente' on the beach was witnessed by the two young convicted men, possibly including themselves to free deserts....the rest was easy. Probables exempted, possibles inserted, cash for secrets sorted, job done...

The court, at the moment, holds all the aces...

...go figure!

why did they smash the phone?

if it didn't work why not just throw it in the sea

why the back of your abode?

they had weeks to dispose of it

Yes!! Why?

Quite probably a planted piece of evidence to shore up the argument. I still maintain the two young men are involved, but are carrying the can for all.

How did the defense "waste the whole trial going on about gait analysis"? I don't think gait analysis was even mentioned at the trial. Or if so, just fleetingly. I would gladly welcome in-depth & professional gait analysis of the 3 Running Man videos. I think it would show, without a doubt, that RM is Nomsod. For obvious reasons, gait analysis was not done in relation to NS. RM's gait may have been compared to one of the B3, but if there was a match, RTP and prosecution would be crowing about it from the rooftops. Instead: not a peep. Oh, and there persists the recollection of that lovely honest man MON saying it was himself. Anyone who believes that, will want to buy some anti-baldness cream from me - only Bt.39,000 per 1 oz. bottle.

The reason the B2 have stuck with their not guilty plea is because they're not guilty. They knew, before during and after they made that plea that it would carry the death penalty, and a plea of guilty would spare their lives, .....yet they have the strength of character to maintain what's right and speak the truth, even though it could cause them to be killed by Thai authorities before they reach their 25th birthdays. I don't know if I would have such courage. Would you?

the video footage of running man was submitted by the family of the guy who you are trying to say is the running man!!

you may not be aware due to having no knowledge of koh tao whatsoever that that entire end of the beach is owned by the same family....do you think they would have given video footage to the police of 1 of their own??

at the end of the day all off your information comes from csi la, and his came from 3/4/5 hand gossip and hearsay from a frenzy of stories and press itching for the latest headline!

just because you guys think they don't look like butter wouldn't melt doesn't mean they didn't! why wouldn't they at point of death penalty say..enoughs enough and grass up the actual murderers??..they are looking at death either way, why not make it known to the international media and go out in a blaze of glory???

not correct, that video was from an independent shop and published by a senior police officer who was actually doing his job, he was removed from the investigation because he was doing some honest police work, cctv in bars was a legal requirement form a few years now and yet the place (AC Bar) where the two victims were last seen alive was withheld - we cannot show you, I'm pretty sure it was all deleted, you have to ask why, surely such video footage would have helped in solving the two murders and yet someone thought it was best to hide it..........including the police who could have legally demanded it as evidence - maybe they just didn't like what it was showing, evidence like that is either going to support your case or maybe best to hide it - in the west that would put investigators in jail

So anyway how many phones are we up to now, was it 6 or 7 smashed up or otherwise and still only 1 IMEI number and only the Thai police (in whom we trust) know which phone it belonged too..............................prove it, along with the original samples of DNA .......produce them, show the finger prints and dna from the phone.....or better not as that can be challenged, it is quite interesting that not one fingerprint was submitted as evidence - the holy grail of evidence to this day as it cannot be faked or copied and can very easily and 100% be verified............not one fingerprint from a phone that was supposed to have been handled by the accused.......for me just something else that adds to the - stitch up camp, if you handle a phone you leave fingerprints and dna......simple as that

and what about David, where are his clothes, mainly his teeshirt , it would have puncture holes similar to his arms face and neck if he had been wearing it at the time of the assault - which would blow the theory that he took it off if he was in some sort of romantic situation with Hannah (which I doubt) - I believe he heard screams from the beach on his way home and went to investigate -

did his clothes show signs of puncture wounds or dna - oh yeh that's right they seemed to have disappeared, the prosecution/police lost the clothes...........seriously they lost the victims clothes ????????

I honestly wish everything the prosecution presented was authentic and could be backed up.....but it isn't, the prosecution/police case has massive holes that just would never stand up in any western justice system, and before anyone says "this is Thailand - Thai justice system" it comes down to common sense, anyone with an ounce of collective thought would know that you cannot just stand up in court and make a claim without producing evidence to support it........... yes he did it because I say so....prove me wrong - which just about sums up this whole thing, it is antiquated simplistic and a few hundreds years out of date - back in the dark ages but trying to mix in modern tech (like dna) without the standards, it is almost childish to think that sensible people are going to be fooled - although I must admit there are a few posting on TVF that are .........well and truly fooled beyond belief

good night all (I didn't proof read my post - too tired lol)

Glad to learn that you are in possession of all the evidence and have the skills, knowledge and expertise to evaluate its worth.

What qualification(s) do you have exactly? ------------Are you a lawyer trained in Thai jurisprudence , a trained and qualified investigator or a forensic scientist ?

Maybe you are some other kind of "expert" if so please tell us.

You don't need to be in receipt of any qualifications or to be an expert in anything other than common sense, as Smedly puts it. Fortunately the majority of humans are blessed with this most basic of human attributes. Animals have it too but it is better described as survival instinct in their case.

Taken...ode to those who really know the truth...

I don't know who are and I don't know what you want...

If you're trying to talk common sense, in my opinion you haven't got any.

But what you do have is a particular set of skills, skills you have acquired over your long careers.

For skills needed in La-la land, yours might be adequate?

But your village wants its idiot back.

Hopefully your village will look for you, it will find you...

And it will welcome you back.

Night night...

Yes, he was unconscious.

He drowned as we have been informed, possibly further assaulted as he did so. This act was probably simultaneous to the assault on the girl, so therefore, (repeating what I have said before)...

'In my humble opinion, I think the two lads were at the very least, witnesses to the crime, or the build up to it.

The bar, the alcohol, the drugs, the girls, the locals, the thrill of the hunt, the chase, the testosterone, the conquest, the prize...then the realisation that someone knew something was wrong!

Easy to cloud ones memory, just need to erase the potentials, insert the possibles, and pack them off to a plausible injustice...

The courts have the last word, as we know...'

Interesting to read though, the rather skewed accounts from amateur sleuths...

On the phone 'ID', so what? Doesn't prove any one or more persons were the guilty party, notwithstanding confessions or retractions, both of which have been examined expertly by TV/CSI.

In my humble opinion, I think the two lads were at the very least, witnesses to the crime, or the build up to it.

The bar, the alcohol, the drugs, the girls, the locals, the thrill of the hunt, the chase, the testosterone, the conquest, the prize...then the realisation that someone knew something was wrong!

Easy to cloud ones memory, just need to erase the potentials, insert the possibles, and pack them off to a plausible injustice...

The courts have the last word, as we know...

I have the immigration police, visiting me today, to check my visa, first time in 10 years

so they take the overstay seriously.

one would think that if they knew your name and address they could find your visa on the computer and would know if it was valid or not

One would think, but then we are rational? Not sure the authorities here are 'wired' the same.

As an example, last year I had reason to visit immigration in Chonburi. A query about 'original' status arose, and despite my suggestion it is 'computerised' (yes I'm English), and they could find the detail on Bangkok based system...it was phone calls and time consuming 'intelligence' which saved the day.

Enjoyed the visit, nonetheless.

Some of these pedos choose isolated places, like Fang, to do their dirty work. I imagine he felt nobody would search for him there. Uploading photos is what got him nailed, but he would of been caught eventually anyways. Probably by some mom and dad wondering why their kids were hanging out at this guy's home. Sounds like he had several "hobbies" that kept him close to kids. Photography, english lessons, etc. Masquerading as a monk..lol. I knew an older man who was pimping ladies in the Philippines who claimed he used to be a Mormon "Bishop". Means absolutely nothing, as hiding behind robes is a classic technique for these guys.

Hope none of these kids were further violated, other than the shower photos.

" Means absolutely nothing, as hiding behind robes is a classic technique for these guys. "

same as so many Catholic priests in USA and Australia and the biggest issue in the end was fighting tooth and nail to avoid the Catholic Church from paying out too much compensation instead of properly addressing the criminality and moral issues

Slightly off thread, but yes the RC church has much to be ashamed of. But when it's protected by the Pope, what chance do victims present and past have.

Some of these pedos choose isolated places, like Fang, to do their dirty work. I imagine he felt nobody would search for him there. Uploading photos is what got him nailed, but he would of been caught eventually anyways. Probably by some mom and dad wondering why their kids were hanging out at this guy's home. Sounds like he had several "hobbies" that kept him close to kids. Photography, english lessons, etc. Masquerading as a monk..lol. I knew an older man who was pimping ladies in the Philippines who claimed he used to be a Mormon "Bishop". Means absolutely nothing, as hiding behind robes is a classic technique for these guys.

Hope none of these kids were further violated, other than the shower photos.

" Means absolutely nothing, as hiding behind robes is a classic technique for these guys. "

same as so many Catholic priests in USA and Australia and the biggest issue in the end was fighting tooth and nail to avoid the Catholic Church from paying out too much compensation instead of properly addressing the criminality and moral issues

This old chestnut again...

I have worked in and around the Dive Industry in LOS for more than 20 years - the solution to preventing the problems in the OP are easy.

only work in accordance with the conditions stated in you work permit.

In other words:-

1. Only carry out the work designated in your work permit.

1.1 Have Dive Instructor listed as your main job description

1.2 Have teaching water sports added as another job description in the same work permit

The general rule for not falling foul of the your job description designation is:-

If you need to carry out other duties that are not obviously covered by your existing job description - then have them added to you work permit - your lawyer can do this for you.

2. Only work at the specific location listed in your work permit.

2.2 List the Dive Center as one location for Academics

2.3 List the swimming pool as another location. List Swimming pools at hotels as a more general location description.

2.4 List Andaman Sea, Koh Phi Phi, Gulf of Siam etc (as necessary) as additional work locations

If you need to work at locations not precisely listed in your work permit - then get your lawyer to add these additional locations

My own work permit is annotated above plus other duties have been added such as the repairing of scuba gear, compressors, engineering work that I often get called out to - It took a long time to slowly get my work and locations properly described in the WP and now results in zero hassles at all when inspected by the WP police.

As an example of how nit-picking the WP police can get - I was caught up in a raid of dive shop employees in a large dive shop spread over several shop units. It was a big operation with 153 Intern Instructors and 7 big dive boats out at the weekend. The WP police obviously sniffed the cash flow and sprung a serious raid with a mini-bus of peaked hats going over everyone and everything. Interestingly, they even wanted to check that each individual townhouse that made up the dive shop was listed in my WP - else 'big problems for me' They were. No issues.

Other obvious no-no's

Do not get involved in carrying boxes of dive gear or any other obvious manual labor in the public view - since manual labor by foreigners either paid or unpaid is general forbidden under Thai labor law, even with a work permit.

Ensure the Dive Co understands the rules (They will get fined a fortune too if you get caught) - convince them to pay a 3rd world laborer or the boat boy(whoever) hanging around on the peer 100 Baht to load the fkin boat, while you sit and drink a coffee with the customers. This is small money for peace of mind and allows you to give better service.

Now, from experience, I know the comments here will get poo-poo'd by the usual knuckle dragging tattoo faced scum bags who run many of the Dive Centers in this dear country - who know better - but gents(unless you have friends in the sky) you (as well as your instructors) will get fined or gouged for a huge amount of cash under the Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281) so sort your sh#t out or pay the piper.

To close - Cheers - and have a great day diving.

SteveB2 Well said. Clearly somebody 'in the office' too lazy to do a proper job.

This old chestnut again...

I have worked in and around the Dive Industry in LOS for more than 20 years - the solution to preventing the problems in the OP are easy.

only work in accordance with the conditions stated in you work permit.

In other words:-

1. Only carry out the work designated in your work permit.

1.1 Have Dive Instructor listed as your main job description

1.2 Have teaching water sports added as another job description in the same work permit

The general rule for not falling foul of the your job description designation is:-

If you need to carry out other duties that are not obviously covered by your existing job description - then have them added to you work permit - your lawyer can do this for you.

2. Only work at the specific location listed in your work permit.

2.2 List the Dive Center as one location for Academics

2.3 List the swimming pool as another location. List Swimming pools at hotels as a more general location description.

2.4 List Andaman Sea, Koh Phi Phi, Gulf of Siam etc (as necessary) as additional work locations

If you need to work at locations not precisely listed in your work permit - then get your lawyer to add these additional locations

My own work permit is annotated above plus other duties have been added such as the repairing of scuba gear, compressors, engineering work that I often get called out to - It took a long time to slowly get my work and locations properly described in the WP and now results in zero hassles at all when inspected by the WP police.

As an example of how nit-picking the WP police can get - I was caught up in a raid of dive shop employees in a large dive shop spread over several shop units. It was a big operation with 153 Intern Instructors and 7 big dive boats out at the weekend. The WP police obviously sniffed the cash flow and sprung a serious raid with a mini-bus of peaked hats going over everyone and everything. Interestingly, they even wanted to check that each individual townhouse that made up the dive shop was listed in my WP - else 'big problems for me' They were. No issues.

Other obvious no-no's

Do not get involved in carrying boxes of dive gear or any other obvious manual labor in the public view - since manual labor by foreigners either paid or unpaid is general forbidden under Thai labor law, even with a work permit.

Ensure the Dive Co understands the rules (They will get fined a fortune too if you get caught) - convince them to pay a 3rd world laborer or the boat boy(whoever) hanging around on the peer 100 Baht to load the fkin boat, while you sit and drink a coffee with the customers. This is small money for peace of mind and allows you to give better service.

Now, from experience, I know the comments here will get poo-poo'd by the usual knuckle dragging tattoo faced scum bags who run many of the Dive Centers in this dear country - who know better - but gents(unless you have friends in the sky) you (as well as your instructors) will get fined or gouged for a huge amount of cash under the Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281) so sort your sh#t out or pay the piper.

To close - Cheers - and have a great day diving.

This old chestnut again...

I have worked in and around the Dive Industry in LOS for more than 20 years - the solution to preventing the problems in the OP are easy.

only work in accordance with the conditions stated in you work permit.

In other words:-

1. Only carry out the work designated in your work permit.

1.1 Have Dive Instructor listed as your main job description

1.2 Have teaching water sports added as another job description in the same work permit

The general rule for not falling foul of the your job description designation is:-

If you need to carry out other duties that are not obviously covered by your existing job description - then have them added to you work permit - your lawyer can do this for you.

2. Only work at the specific location listed in your work permit.

2.2 List the Dive Center as one location for Academics

2.3 List the swimming pool as another location. List Swimming pools at hotels as a more general location description.

2.4 List Andaman Sea, Koh Phi Phi, Gulf of Siam etc (as necessary) as additional work locations

If you need to work at locations not precisely listed in your work permit - then get your lawyer to add these additional locations

My own work permit is annotated above plus other duties have been added such as the repairing of scuba gear, compressors, engineering work that I often get called out to - It took a long time to slowly get my work and locations properly described in the WP and now results in zero hassles at all when inspected by the WP police.

As an example of how nit-picking the WP police can get - I was caught up in a raid of dive shop employees in a large dive shop spread over several shop units. It was a big operation with 153 Intern Instructors and 7 big dive boats out at the weekend. The WP police obviously sniffed the cash flow and sprung a serious raid with a mini-bus of peaked hats going over everyone and everything. Interestingly, they even wanted to check that each individual townhouse that made up the dive shop was listed in my WP - else 'big problems for me' They were. No issues.

Other obvious no-no's

Do not get involved in carrying boxes of dive gear or any other obvious manual labor in the public view - since manual labor by foreigners either paid or unpaid is general forbidden under Thai labor law, even with a work permit.

Ensure the Dive Co understands the rules (They will get fined a fortune too if you get caught) - convince them to pay a 3rd world laborer or the boat boy(whoever) hanging around on the peer 100 Baht to load the fkin boat, while you sit and drink a coffee with the customers. This is small money for peace of mind and allows you to give better service.

Now, from experience, I know the comments here will get poo-poo'd by the usual knuckle dragging tattoo faced scum bags who run many of the Dive Centers in this dear country - who know better - but gents(unless you have friends in the sky) you (as well as your instructors) will get fined or gouged for a huge amount of cash under the Alien Business Law (N.E.C. Announcement 281) so sort your sh#t out or pay the piper.

To close - Cheers - and have a great day diving.

So, RTP- fanboys: you suggest, that there is evidence, that we haven't seen or heard about?!

Evidence, only some inner circle members (and the Miller- family) know about?!

Why exactly, would that be so?

Even the judge, who handed down the judgement said, that the case is flawed, but the DNA- evidence was the most compelling part (which means, in my reading: even that was flawed!).

So we have seen all the failures and fumbles, all the mistakes, all the "I don't know" and "it is used up".

We have seen the case been sent back a total of 3 times and we all have heard all the questions and all the doubts!

All that has been made public...but the ONE "evidence", that links the B2 to the crime without any doubt and so clear, that a death -sentence has been spoken...THAT part of evidence, is the only thing, that has been kept a secret?!

On what planet does that make ANY sense?

If the semen found inside Hannah's body was that of the B2 then that trumps EVERYTHING else. Nothing else matters, unless you think that they raped Hannah and then somebody else murdered them, which wouldn't actually make that much sense!!

Despite the argument put forth by some defenders of the Burmese that the presence of their semen on the victim's body does not prove murder, I tend to believe that it would go a long way towards convincing most reasonable folks of their guilt. The problem is that, as many have already pointed out, there has been no CREDIBLE presentation by the prosecutors of ANY evidence,

other than what amounts to a weaker version of "the dog ate my homework" by the RTP.

It was hardly what any self respecting court anywhere in the world could call "rock-solid DNA evidence."

Apparently, rock solid enough!!

Ok Lucky

Tell you what... Give me a sample of the semen from the body and I can do a DNA test on it...

Then give me a sample of your sperm, and I will match that with the DNA from the body flawlessly...

How you ask?

Why my good man, its very simple... I switch the labels and tell everyone who is involved and that may have a conscience to shut their mouths 'or else' because its 'just some person called Lucky' and not a rich and powerful gangsters son...

DJVillain. You watch too much telly...have a break, think a little more about what you just said. Samples are always separated and one, at least, can be independently tested. Otherwise, don't give up your day job...

"Those reports are groundless. Doctors have examined the defendants' physical health and there is no sign of torture," Prachum said.

Water boarding and rubber hoses don't leave any physical signs. That might be the only "professional law enforcement procedure" the police carried out skillfully.

Did the B2 provide any details of how they were tortured?

They did. In court. You can search Thai Visa

Ignore him Sweat, he's a pure troll with no agenda other than stirring the shiite.

Late to the forum and clearly hasn't even bothered to familiarise himself with the case at all. Another troll, just not a very smart or bright one.

Late to the forum? I was already on the forum months ago regarding this case. I have followed everything - even CSI LA and the previous cases this armchair detective has been working on.

And speaking about bright: you didn't even get why I was asking that question.... if the B2 were waterboarded they would have said that in court. Zin said he was struck in the chest and both said that they were punched by the "translator" - no mention of water and rubber hoses.

Please spare time and space for families on both sides.

Some of us talk too much...

Some of us read too much...

Some of believe too much...

The truth...nobody actually knows...

15 months of willy waggling guys...thank you for your opinion, of course.

Enjoy your 'bird' tomorrow, some will not!

French police made arrests in Rayong?????, Voila! Thees ees ow real poleeece doo do there job Monsieur Somchai.

...good moaning, Reneé

but the terrorists entered 16-30.10, not before that.

most probably those 10 suspects already left, on any other passport, but syrian. Only after 15.12, when their tourist visa expires, emmigration will know, who they were.

16-30.10?

Is that code? It's certainly not a date on this planet.

Yes. 'Half four in October....

My thai GF got bag ripped from shoulder when we were walking back to hotel in BK after eating, 2 on Bike went past down the soi then turned around came back towards us I stepped back and within a split second they had passed with no lights on and ripped the bag from her shoulder.

She fortunate enough to have money in her jeans and phone but they got cards which we cancelled straight away.

Why take a handbag when cycleing?

Just a few BHT in pocket is enough, girls seem to be uncomfortoble without one, they are walking targets especially when walking down a dark soi with falang.

Look what happened in BK with the I pad murder, Thai and Falang not safe--- a bad sign of the times, Poverty, unemployment ect ect.

...ect...etc...even...but I agree...

He won't have to worry about renewing his tourist visa I can see a 50 year extension stamp in his passport already !

had to laugh at that comment, good one but I still feel a bit bad for him, yeah he knew what he was doing and he knew the consequences, but he s going to either be dead soon or wish he was. I do not wish that kind of suffering upon anybody who does something as trivia as trafficking cocaine. Punishment yes, 50 years in utter hell, no

Trafficking cocaine is trivia, eh? Are you imprisoned by your own standards, I ask?

David was killed by one blow ? Despite photos proving otherwise this is the sort of evidence the RTP claim to be water tight.

In leaked transcripts, the fatal blow is construed as 'one' blow. The photographs, those we seem to be reliant upon, aren't very clear. The submitted evidence may well be better quality.

The Deputy must have cut a deal with the Malaysian cops. We set up 30M THB reward. You deliver them to the Thai border and hand them to the RTP. The RTP announces that, through their steller police work they have finally arrested the yellow shirt bomber. The RTP then gives a cut of the reward to the Malaysian Chief.

Stellar spelling, eh!