Lancashireman

was the blender on the ground floor ? was the blender in the socket ?

when i make a smoothie, all stuff goes in, than only will i put the plug and operate it...

commen sense, they don't teach that in schools ... sad for the girl, they cannot re-attach ?

It's common(*commen) sense...are you old enough to operate a machine? 4 year olds are inquisitive...parents are probably distraught...

Can common sense be taught, Professor?

Nothing is ever worth suicide. Learn to love adversity and always fight through.

Thank you Professor IamNoone...b****x prognosis...

Poor little girl...

Let's not judge anyone here...it's a tragic accident...

https://twitter.com/pakhead/status/642202002634743808'>

Now, run, run, run for your life, Dr. Porthip,... the mafia is gonna witch hunt you now....

She has done this many times before so I doubt she's easily scared. The RTP already hate her and have done so for many years for exposing their incompetence.

And as for those that said she wouldn't reveal the truth because she's on the side of the Pro Monarchy Yellows/Coup Makers and against the Reds, well what have you to say now?

My knowledge of Dr. Porntip is that she is a shining light amidst a dark world here.

If you get chance to read some of her books, you'll realise she is an uncompromising professional in an area of work which requires up such. Courageous lady under these circumstances...

My first idea was ... an article from Mrs. S. Palin

Palin isn't from USA...she lives near Russia...or Taiwan, or a place somewhere kinda' near to...her country...

Interesting photo to peruse?

Found it on Thai FB chat page...

The graphic edits are not mine.

loon,

Gambling is illegal in Thailand!

Cop out... Haha so is prostitution but it all goes on. Put your money where your mouth is!

You supporters of the headman and police are going backwards and forwards trying to confuse over quotes and such. You know what, I don't get involved when that goes on as there's enough people on here who are really up to speed to argue against you but I sure know what I've seen regarding pictures and proceedings and will say it again. After two court blocks where the Prosecution had the floor to prove there case they have managed absolutely nothing to even remotely suggest the B2 are involved never mind guilty of the crimes.

That is a fact, not opinions or speculation but what has been seen and said. You can confuse all you want but the facts are there to see. Zilch ! Must try harder if it was a school report. A disgrace if we are being honest !

You hit on something here that is telling, why has the prosecutions case been so abysmal? We know that the case was sent back several times by the prosecution and was declared by someone to be the perfect case. So far it's been far from that it's been weak. I really don't buy into the theory that the police are just stupid , far more likely they realize that they've been caught with their pants down and now it's a question of damage limitation. The Thai police are used to acting with impunity and usually what they say goes. This is new territory for them actually having to justify their work. It may be the case that they have realized that if they continue with their game plan they will be rumbled further down the road. The more we say now the more we will have to explain later, hence answers like " I don't know" " I didn't think it was relevant ". The prosecution have been on the back foot and their witnesses really haven't been forthcoming with evidence that would seem enough to convict. I have a hunch that we are in for some interesting surprises when the defense takes the stand.

Here is my take on the supposed admittance of guilt after the 'safe house'. It harkens to what happened at the 'safe house' It's likely they were tortured, perhaps both psychologically and physically. It's quite common for authorities, all over the world, to tell suspects something like, "Admit the crime, and you won't get the death penalty. Hang tough, and insist on your innocence, and we will find you guilty and you will die." So, having no inkling of the law or their rights, they signed a piece of paper they couldn't read, with no advocates within shouting distance. Next, they're sitting again with older stern-faced men. They're still spooked by the earlier scenario, and they still don't want to be executed, so they stick with their forced confession. At some point soon after, they're apprised of their basic legal rights for the first time, and quickly tell the truth: they were tortured and forced to confess to a crime they didn't do. they've been unwavering in declaring their innocence ever since. Indeed, they and their lawyers are clammoring for re-testing of crucial evidence. that's not the actions of guilty people.

Here's how guilty people act:

>>> they pay money to get people to convince others of their innocence, no matter how outlandish

>>> They avoid DNA tests

>>> They keep hiding from police

>>> They threaten anyone who may have evidence or witness accounts (I just heard today that the Burmese woman who first found the bodies of H and D has just been killed)

>>> They threaten defamation of character lawsuits

>>> They offer 1 million baht rewards for anyone who can prove their family member is guilty. What are the chances that reward will ever be paid? Zero.

>>> They disparage the reputation of others who they try to frame as scapegoats (Headman telling everyone Sean is a paedophile)

>>> They destroy evidence

>>> They stage a DNA comparison press event which doesn't do what it's purported to do.

>>> They obfuscate things, and lie like rugs.

>>> They pay people to lie about things.

How many of those things are being done by the B2? None. How many are being done by the Headman's people? All.

Nailed it.

What do police always use when determining suspects? Motive, Intent, Ability and odd behavior after the crime, Usually when trying to cover ones tracks.

B2 lack all of those things.

I personally think if the B2 were guilty they would have attempted some kind of escape, As we all know the Island was hardly "locked down". Great post Boomer.

If GB and AleG and JTJ were leading the investigation, it would be easy peazy. Top bananas in Bangkok (after conferring with Headman by phone) would tell inspectors what they want, and the 3 amigos would dutifully come up with those results, and not even bother looking at or pursuing any leads which point elsewhere. Indeed, they could just go to the beach and sip energy drinks and gauk at the pretty farang gals walking by in bikinis, and they'd get their jobs done. Check's in the mail, thanks guys.

Q from Bkk: "what did you do today?"

A from inspectors: "We didn't look at video from the beach, the pier and from the AC bar"

Q: "Good, keep up the good work. Oh, and what do you plan to do tomorrow?"

A: "We plan to make sure that 2/3 of the CCTV cameras don't have any footage. We decided we'll tell the court that they're all broken."

Q. "Very good plan. You each get a raise and a promotion for your exemplary work. And, when the Burmese are found guilty, there's a bonus prize for each of you, courtesy of a donor who will remain anonymous. ha ha, chuckle, chortle, ha ha. Sorry, I just spilled my Red Bull on my lap."

Why does someone who has a different opinion then yours have to have an agenda? Why can't we just have an opinion based on what we have learned by ourselves? An opinion that is based on what we have read about this case in the Media, which is our only source of information, and therefore not written in stone?

But you say "Us" and "Them" like some new Marshal in Town here to clean up this site and restore law and order here. Being a participating member here from the very start do you really want to know the difference between "Us" and "Them"?

"Us" (We) base our own opinion on what we read from a credible media report. We don't want to see anyone who is innocent be tried guilty, but at the same time we do not want to release 2 possible murders and rapist free to commit this crime someplace else, Until it is proven in a court of law, as enough evidence has been collected to accuse them. If the DNA is re-tested proven there is no DNA Match to the accused, then we would reconsider our opinion and would consider them being innocence.

"Them" (You) on the other hand base your opinions on pure speculations and theory. You do not have one shred of evidence to conclude their innocents. You base your evidence on what you call the Prosecutors lack thereof, but yet the trial in in it's infancy. Perhaps worst of all is that if this DNA Re-testing comes back and doesn't go your way, and still proves it matches the 2 accused, you will not accept this. You will say it should have been tested in the UK , or Singapore, and not in Thailand, even though this was the request of the Defense Lawyers, You will add more people to some grand conspiracy and claim they were all bought off to.

The real big difference between "Us" and "Them" is that we can still be rational and use our judgement and logic, and be opened minded, to form our own opinions. Where you are all Brain Washed, and are no longer able or capable to think for yourselves. You wouldn't care to know the truth or justice for the 2 Victims even if it crept up behind you and hit you on the back of the head with a Garden Hoe. ,

Goldbuggy, regarding your description of "Us" and "Them", I would just like to clarify why I would be considered a "Them" because it is not included as an option in your post.

A huge amount of weight in this whole case is being placed upon the DNA evidence. I think it's fair to say that if there was no DNA match the RTP would still be looking for the perpetrators today. Once there was a match the "investigation" effectively ceased.

From the outset the RTP decided that it would be best if collection of all the forensic evidence was kept "in house", and this is when I sensed that something may be amiss with the investigations.The Central Institute of Forensic Science, now headed by Khunying Pornthip, was set up for precisely the purpose of avoiding such a scenario as this by providing forensic services under the auspices of the Ministry of Justice, and so independent of the RTP "in house" forensics division and I cannot think of one valid reason for the RTP failing to involve the CIFS in this case that benefits anyone other than the RTP themselves. So many question marks over this case would have been removed if Khunying Pornthip and her team had been able to take responsibility for this role.

Here is an analogy I used once before and I think it still offers an easy to understand explanation as to why I am what you would consider a conspiracy theorist.

If you have ever seen a sporting event where a relatively crucial decision is made by the toss of a coin (which team will kick first, which end a team chooses to play from etc.) you will have noticed that the typical procedure goes something like this:

The referee and captain(s) from both teams will gather in the middle of the pitch.

The referee will show both sides of the coin to both team captains.

The referee then tosses the coin high into the air in full view of the team captains, the TV cameras and onlookers.

A pre-determined team captain will call either heads or tails whilst the coin is in the air.

All those involved (the team captains and the referees) will stand back to allow the coin to land on the ground in plain view of everyone so their can be no doubt as to whether it's a head or a tail.

The referee will look at the coin where it lays on the ground, without touching it, and will announce whether it is a head or a tail.

They stage the coin toss like this because it is deemed to be fair, transparent and because it removes almost all possibilities of foul play.

What they do not do, and for very good reasons, is allow the home team players (who have called heads for example) to crowd around the coin as it lands so that neither the referees, the TV cameras nor the opposing team can see it and accept the result as final and fair when the home team captain says "Yeah, it was a head...", picks up the coin and returns it to the referee whilst his teammates all nod their heads in agreement, and the opposing team scratches theirs, which is basically what happened with everything regarding the collection and analysis of the forensic evidence in this case.

In the above sporting event scenario, if the away team were seen walking away from the coin toss appearing unconvinced of the fairness of the outcome and were heard muttering things like: "I never saw it land..." or "It coulda been a tail you know..." then you and your fellow "Us" contingent would be labeling the away team as conspiracy theorists and calling their mutterings "wild and baseless speculation". Meanwhile an impartial observer (or anyone with half a brain for that matter) would have noticed that the problem lies with the the coin toss procedure and its obvious lack of transparency and would be aiming their criticism at this rather than at the away team players.

Now if the impartial observers were then advised that actually a more transparent coin toss system was widely available and had been brought into effect some 12 years earlier to prevent such suggestions of foul play and deception, and that the only reason this new system was not used for this particular coin toss was because the home team refused to implement it... Well, it should come as no surprise to find that no matter how loudly the home team players accuse the away team of being a bunch of conspiracy theorists, the finger of suspicion is now pointing squarely at the home team and their very deliberate decision to use the old "crowd round the coin" coin toss procedure, with everyone except for the home team players and their most loyal of fans having serious doubts about their intentions and their integrity.

In the world of sports it is expected and accepted that fans will blindly support their team simply because it is Their Team and because they are loyal fans. There is no expectation of a logical thought process being behind the reason they give their support to their team. However, in the scientific world of criminal investigation and forensics, and in the very real world of the murder trial we are discussing here, one would expect that the majority of impartial observers would use logic, probability and rational thinking as a basis for making a decision as to whether they throw their support behind a guilty verdict or an innocent verdict, perhaps combined with a certain amount of "gut feeling". However, what I find puzzling about the "Us" contingent is that despite Goldbuggy's assertions to the contrary, their support of a guilty verdict appears to be based almost exclusively on a sports team style blind loyalty, perhaps coupled with some gut feeling, because how can anyone using logic and rational thinking support results that were achieved as a direct result of the highly prejudicial "coin toss" their team insisted on using?

And so that is why I am a "Them". I thought there was something very fishy about the coin toss...

Well, let me ask you something since you compare this to, lets say a Football Game. You mention this coin toss and being able to see the truth. A Referee and 2 Captains see the coin being tossed and land on the ground, then the call is made. So here is my question to you.

How many times as a Fan or Spectator have you actually seen with your own eyes which way the coin has landed, and if it was Heads or Tails? Would Zero be close? So you put your faith in 2 Captains and the Referee to tell you the truth. Could not 3 people be bribed to lie about this?

In a Murder and Rape Investigation, Arrest, and Trial, and as a Spectator, you don't have any rights to know all the Evidence any more then you have the right as a Fan to walk out onto the field and see the coin toss in your own country. With the exception of attending the Trial, which in my country on big profile cases you would never find a seat in the Court Room. So it is up to the 2 Captains (Prosecution and Defense Lawyers) and the Referee (Judges) to tell you how it ends up.

As to all this other stuff about DNA Testing and who should do it, that could become endless trail (got it right this time) of Speculation. You say a different branch in Thailand, some with say Singapore, some FBI, some Scotland Yard, and so on. It is pretty obvious from knowing were the 2 accused are now, that this DNA Testing that took place, was good enough to keep them their until this Trial at least. .

Oh Dear!

It was no great leap to foresee that the meaning of Jimmy's excellent analogy would go right over your head. I suspect that to you, analogy is something you'd take anti histamines for.

End result the same, you, as usual, end up with a red face, a runny nose and are crying all the time.

The point of his post was to demonstrate, in a manner that even the simplest and blindest on this forum would understand, the principle of openness and transparency and why the lack of this has polarised this debate so badly!

That this was too much to grasp is no great surprise to most of us on here and more than demonstrates your inability to grasp simple, let alone slightly complex, issues.

I hear that there's still plenty of space left in the "Basic Playdough Shapes" forum! Go grab a space somewhere you can contribute in a meaningful fashion!

You guys arguing the toss, your filling the thread up with bullshit, its 80% of pointless toing and afroing, its repetative and making it nigh on impossible for people who just want to keep up with the case, quote after quote after quote.

Please give it a rest..

Hi I understand what your saying and for my part if my posts you consider bullshit I'm sorry you feel like that.

The problem so many of us have is if we left it to JLT ,GB and the like you wouldn't get a true reflection on what's actually happening. It's a difficult I know and for my part in it I apologise for it. But some on here feel quite strongly that people aren't getting a fair deal from authorities so hence the input. Sorry again

You're not going to change their mind, and its at a point where it seems as if its you're entire lifes goal to do as much.

You're as bad as JTJ and the gang and are trying to make this case about you as opposed to the actual victims ... like being one of those people who have to connect themselves in some way to tragedy.

I'm sorry you think that of me. I'm not trying to make this case about anything but for justice for Hannah and David. Also at the moment from what's become apparent there could be 2 more victims and that can't be right. I do accept that it easy to get caught up in the case but to say I'm as bad as JTJ etc is not fair. I've tried very hard to be objective and stay balanced and not speculate and I think I've done that. It is a forum however and invites opinion . However I understand what your saying. Thank you

Nigeone, agree you remain objective. Interesting point in psychology that human beings associate themselves with other people's tradgedies etc. There are certainly several members on this site who fall into this category, and are now so absorbed with the case they lose a sense of reality, and will not climb down from their position.

GB and nigeone

Quote>"Compromised" means to accept standards lower than is desirable, "Compromised" does not mean "Destroyed".

For example if you were investigating the Crime Scene you would expect to find the footprints in the sand of the 2 Victims, plus any others who could belong to the murders. But now that 6 others entered the Crime Scene, the Crime Scene has been compromised.

This doesn't mean these footprints of the victims and possible murders aren't there anymore. It just now means that you have to sift through everyone's footprints that were in there, and clear them all as suspects, which is not desired. Unless of course a herd of cattle went through and destroyed all the footprints, but judging from photos of the police measuring the footprints, I don't think this was the case.

Now if you think the sperm samples taken from Hannah at the Forensic Lab was compromised and planted, then I have no more to say to you on this subject as then we disagree, Your not for real are you?? Compromised means what it says and in your analogy it's clear that if many people are allowed unchecked and not in a sterile environment some of those said footprints could have been compromised or even destroyed. You do know what happens to sand when it's walked don't you?? What about all the pics downloaded onto Facebook before the it came out that a murders had been carried out. Then there's the pictures of clothes in one place then scattered all around and a police guy stating he moved the body. How many of the people walking on that beach would have been wearing flip flop type shoes! Not easy to differentiate on sand wouldn't you agree. There was umpteen people walking over that crime scene including I will say again a possible suspect. How can that possible suspect be elimated from the case. Well we know the answer to that don't we! You haven't thought your reply out have you!. And are you telling me it's not possible to plant samples? and again we have only the RTP word up to now that they have any samples and they haven't been to clever at being forthcoming with anything up to now. The perfect case!!

Yes we do disagree and quite honestly this argument of yours is a joke. And as you've obviously not read previous post of mine and understood DNA taken from Hannah does not in any shape or form confirm that the DNA belonged to a murderer. Just that it belonged to someone there. Is that so hard to understand!!

Check the Dictionary for the word "Compromise". That is where I got this meaning from. Not sure where you got yours though.<End quote

You are both right so why argue?

However when using a word one should look at the context in which it is used. One place crime scene investigators can look to make certain that evidence is of the highest quality is contamination Yes, a crime scene can be comprised but through the contamination of that scene. Contamination is the introduction of something to a scene that was not previously there. Investigators can even compromise and contaminate the scene with their own footprints.

If I was referring to this matter, as you two gentleman are, I would say that the crime scene has been contaminated thus compromising the investigation given what is now known to have occurred there. As such, one could reasonably state that any evidence collected there and possibly elsewhere, has been compromised. Careful appraisal is required so that a plan can be created so one knows what needs to be collected and the best way to do so but after looking at the evidence coming from the court, it appears this did not occur and the matter has been a monumental stuff up from the beginning.

Evaluating a scene before anyone enters can be the key to keeping contamination to a minimum. When doing a preliminary survey of the crime scene one needs to know what his/hers equipment and manpower needs are. Some scenes may require the presence of specialists, so maybe someone can answer this? When were the first specialist police called to the scene? I mean forensic and crime scene investigators, not the local BIB.

I have also read, with interest, that many people are criticising the DNA obtained. I do not know what procedures were followed by police but given what is coming out now then one would have to say that police failed to ensure the integrity of the DNA. Samples must be properly collected and care must be taken not to taint it, so given what has come to light regarding the DNA then it can reasonably assumed that it has been tainted therefore, compromised.

Looking at the overall situation, there has to be questions raised as to the credibility of police and why those who were first in attendance failed to carry out the very basics of policing, (securing the crime scene) thus giving rise to a flawed investigation. We can also do without all the outside influence and the irrational statements being made by some in authority. If this were back in my country it could result in mistrial or even those sprouting off being held in contempt of the Court.

I don't assume or presume as some have indicated, nor do I want to get involved in conspiracy theories, who thinks who is involved, the mafia, the headman, his sons or brothers, if the boys are innocent or guilty, how their confessions were obtained or whatever. I have in the past sided with police, as being an ex-copper one hopes that things are above board and that the investigation was carried out in a manner that would see justice prevail, one way or another. However, from what is now evident then the veracity of the police evidence must be called into question and their procedures closely scrutinised to ensure that from now and into the future this does not occur, there is transparency in all matters, fairness provided to all alleged offenders and that the families of the victims get closure.

Unfortunately, non of this has appears to have occurred in this case. I am not saying that all police have acted in a manner that would discredit them but certainly many have and they should be called to task for what they have done, many, at the very least, should be charged with neglect of duty or at the worst, a criminal offence. I know many will say this is Thailand, sure it is but unfortunately this is the way they operate. Hopefully, in time, the good cops will prevail and rid the system of inept and corrupt officers and the judicial system will get a long need overhaul. Sure, it will take time, many, many years, maybe not in my life time, but if and when this happens, then the hopefully people will find that Thailand is not so bad after all and the disgusting criticism now being displayed by some on this forum will cease.

In so far as the two alleged offenders, I do not know if they are guilty or innocent. No one on here does either. What everyone needs to understand that we were not there, we do not know what occurred, although many assume or say for certain they are guilty, some the opposite, they are innocent. I think emotions are playing a big role in this and should be put to one side. If they are convicted on the evidence obtained or not obtained, contaminated or concocted, then justice will have to be called into question. If they are found not guilty, then one needs to evaluate the overall situation and determine if they were innocent because they were, or if the decision was made because of a technicality or other undue outside influences. I really don't know in regards to the last two scenarios but one way or another this matter will come to it's conclusion and the whole process will start over, those on this side, those on that side, berating each because they believe they are right.

An excellent review of the circumstances. Fair,rational,logical and sensible. Sadly none of these traits has much place in a Thai court of law

Good words, sensible opinion. One or two posters might learn from this?

Cuts out the 'willy waggling',

Thank you

Ignoring facts, reality, debate, plausibility or anything you don't want to believe or questions it is a requirement when promoting unsubstantiated and often outrageous theories as fact.

Edit: Childish name calling, encouraging ganging up and staying on the band wagon is right up there with requirements too.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who has noticed these types of actions, I thought I was the Lone Ranger to start with. It does become tedious reading after a while but to be fair, both sides are guilty so we should be fair if taking others to task.

I know I can be a bit condescending to people and we all have our moments but I really am not seeing the kind of hatred, childish emotion, nastiness and unrelated personal attacks that seem to flow from one side. Could be wrong but also haven't seen many posting vacations given to those who believe the right folks are standing trial. Obviously I may have some bias but I also really believe it is not even close to measurable when you look at who is doing the name calling and unrelated personal attacks. Also, look at the likes these posts receive from one side. The more nasty, unrelated and harassing the post, the more likes. I don't watch posters on a personal level and have to assume many are not doing this but just the familiarity with names would indicate the most vocal people are. In further reality, there isn't even that many people still posting in this thread just us people who are either bored or have some other reason to be sitting in front of a computer for way too much time.

Another example and evidence that you've lost touch with reality more than any other poster on this site: As soon as you anxiety levels reach fever pitch you show your true colours;

The only way for justice, in this lifetime, is for a vigilante group to see that the liars and those covering up are taken care of. Perhaps donations can start on a facebook page?

Even if this was posted 'tongue in cheek', encouraging vigilantism is more than stupid.

Agree brewsterbudgen. I doubt it's tongue in cheek, sadly. The bravado shown from behind the keyboard is as astonishing as their ignorance. Mildly entertaining though it is...

In case you are not a troll - What bravado? What are you going on about? Do you know flaming is against forum rules?

If you think justice will be served like it is in your country then you are the naive newbie and the ignorant one.

The ironic thing is that YOU would probably never say such a thing face to face.

Are you saying they shared an after murder ciggy ?

I didn't say or speculate anything like that

Do tell us how her DNA could have been found on the ciggy if she didn't touch or smoke it.

You are kidding right? Are you one of the people criticizing DNA collections and talking about contamination and stuff but you don't know about transfer? If her DNA was in the cigarette, as widely reported early on, there are so many plausible and likely ways her DNA was on the cigarette beyond her smoking it. The DNA could have come from the suspects fingers or lips that had her DNA (blood, skin cells, saliva or cellular material found in sweat). If this was true, there would likely not be enough DNA to retest for her DNA on the butt but the DNA should still be available for testing because they should/would have used PCR testing to replicate the DNA on the butt being it would have been a small amount while also allowing to keep the replicated samples for further testing if needed .... which jives with what police said they have.

Were you one of the people that also was going on and on about DNA on the outside of the condemn but not the inside and it being proof of a setup? Yet, we find out through reported testimony that the DNA on the condom was a drop of blood that could have gotten on there a number of ways including from splatter to being dripped or touched to possibly others.

The problem with people making up theories and playing internet detective is when you don;t know all the facts is ... people don't know all the facts but draw conclusion based on theories that were based on a guess. Nothing wrong with speculating and having theories but what goes on online is mostly people drawing facts from stuff they don;t know and not seeing the difference between a plausible theory and one based on complete BS.

Yeah JTJ your theory make sense if they had had a cigarette after the murder. Yet you said you didn't say that.

So how does Hannah's DNA get on a ciggy they smoked before they killed her ?

berybert, good point. Don't encourage JTJ. For 10 months he has pontificated and got responses. He thrives on it, truly a legend in his own sleuth circles of expertly worded BS & b*****x.

The only way for justice, in this lifetime, is for a vigilante group to see that the liars and those covering up are taken care of. Perhaps donations can start on a facebook page?

Even if this was posted 'tongue in cheek', encouraging vigilantism is more than stupid.

Agree brewsterbudgen. I doubt it's tongue in cheek, sadly. The bravado shown from behind the keyboard is as astonishing as their ignorance. Mildly entertaining though it is...

Read and re-read quite a lot of this thread.

I agree with, amongst others, balo...

Further, it is my opinion that JTJ and Goldbuggy live in la-la land. It's a made up name strangely...

Of course they are entitled to an opinion, but as no one person on this 'thread' has the whole knowledge or indeed expertise outside of their comfort zone, we shall all need to wait and see.

But it makes fascinating reading...in a purely fictitious sense.

Justice will win the day I hope.

Sorry but I don't remember anyone claiming they had "whole knowledge" of this case. Even the Gang from the Hang-em High or Conspiracy Group. So perhaps it is only you in your own made up la-la land? So please go back to whatever you are smoking and enjoy the show.

Thank you Goldbuggy.

I haven't suggested one person had whole knowledge, quite the opposite in fact. But you as the pseudo chairperson of the 'conspirators' as I read it, seem to know enough to spin the drivel quite affectively. Wish I smoked whatever it is that clouds your thought processes...keep it real, La la land is proud of you.

Read and re-read quite a lot of this thread.

I agree with, amongst others, balo...

Further, it is my opinion that JTJ and Goldbuggy live in la-la land. It's a made up name strangely...

Of course they are entitled to an opinion, but as no one person on this 'thread' has the whole knowledge or indeed expertise outside of their comfort zone, we shall all need to wait and see.

But it makes fascinating reading...in a purely fictitious sense.

Justice will win the day I hope.

I can't see any booze in the pic....

It was a staged photograph...

New here, followed the case from day one and going through some of these 188 pages can't believe that there are people here in this forum who support the official story supplied by the police. Are you guys completely out of your mind? After all those cockups during what they called 'investigation'??? Are you for real?????

To this Johnthailandjohn and Goldbuggy: Do you know that the DNA (what seems to be your only tool in any argument) was stored in the village chief's fridge? The mafia dad of Nomsod???? Knowing this, how can any sane person believe that the samples weren't tempered with?

Do you, JohnThailandJohn and Goldbuggy, know that in a case many years ago in northern Thailand the police even tried to extract semen from an immigrant worker they used as scapegoat? How can you be so naive to believe that on an island like Koh Tao, that is run and owned by a mafia family any of the proceedings during the investigation would go by the book and uncorrupted? Do you even live in Thailand? Have you ever been here? Do you know how things run here? Do you have any idea about Thailand at all? Or are you a kind of sophisticated Super-Troll?

Could not have worded that better myself!....... Spot on!

What were the rumours on the island directly after the murders?

That would be telling.

Not related, but I remember in the first 3 days after the crime, sitting discussing it with Thai friends, one of whom has been in diving on Phi Phi and Lanta for the last 10 years and who knows people from over that side. He was the first to come out and declare his belief that it was local islanders wot did it, and he wouldn't be surprised if the Cops tried to fit up some Burmese workers. Now this proves nothing except that even for Thai folks with a little knowledge of island types, this scenario which so many of us believe to be, is far from being preposterous or "highly implausible", and it was his first opinion before anyone was named or fingered. It was at least a few more days before any info came out.

So? Interpret my post as you see fit.

Totally plausible I and agree. It does reconcile information I was given in the immediate aftermath. There is more to follow of course, but the armchair detectives are now out of their sebatical and we can look forward to that diatribe as we move forward.

Does Surat Thani airport even have immigration, i dont think it does, why would they be fined there anyway, they were departing Thailand BKK, either badly reported or some BS being written

And 7 × 500 doesnt equal THB10500 BTW if it was genuine fine they overstayed 21 days

1 If 7 days = THB 3500

2 overstayed 21 days

3 scammed by someone

4 someone is writing BS

A few factual things wrong with this story

Perhaps a modern lie detector should be used to determine the truth. I mean on the police offers involved in the case...........

Water boarding...

Start with the chef of police...

Where's Dick Cheney when you need him? Perhaps he can hop on a plane and bring his waterboard with him. Put hinges on it, fold it up, and perhaps he can take it as carry-on luggage.

"we're waxing down our surfboards, we can't wait for June." Beach Boys

No one needs Dick Cheney, or the beach boys for that matter...

why has this mans identity been withheld this is a very serious charge his name should be published so people can deal with him forcing a young boy of 13 to have sex with an 8 year old girl is abominable .

The animals identity is probably being withheld to protect the identity of the victims, who were both related to him!!

JOC. Yes it is.

jackanapes. It is being dealt with...

Amazing Thailand

Amazing alright. During songkran the banks were closed for five consecutive days.

Err? No they were not...!