loppylugs1

I could rent a modern, 2/3 bed terraced house for 350 euros in the pueblo I lived in. Three thousand baht gets you a cell in a Thai tenement style building. No way José.

As regards investment income, you'll have to pay income tax. Also,If the value of your shareholding(s) exceeds 50,000 euros you'll have to make an asset declaration.

If your net wealth (after deductions) exceeds 700,000 euros you'll have to pay wealth tax. Google wealth tax Spain and you'll find the details. For someone with a house in the SE of England, it wouldn't be difficult to exceed the 700K. Not all of the regions apply this tax, but most do, including the Canaries, Mallorca, Catalonia and Andalucia.

For clarity, the asset declaration and wealth tax are separate requirements.

This is great stuff,thanks.....but does the asset declaration in itself lead to tax? Maybe a Q too far ,but thanks for information

oops under 700,000

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

Not fortunate enough to have money piled into offshore,but if you could answer this, I hold shares ,quite a few too which obv pay dividends (know they will be taxed) but the whole amount of my holding would that be taxable?

Any answer Thanks

As a non-UK Resident for Tax purposes, you wouldn't have had to pay any tax on your UK Dividend over & above the withholding Tax (which is a notional Tax that you don't actually pay, hence can't claim back) irrespective of how much dividend you earn.

However, this is all changing from April 6th 2016 when you'll get a £5,000 pa Dividend allowance after which you'll pay 7.5%, 32.5% or 38.1% depending on your other UK income, but it's unclear how it affects non-UK Tax residents so I started a new thread earlier to see if anybody had more information (apologies for plugging it here, but I think it's relevant).

Im curious loppylugs1, if you do move to Spain, will you declare yourself as non-UK resident (don't necessarily need to become Spanish resident if you take frequent trips to other countries in the region), or maintain being UK domiciled?

Genuine question, I've never looked into the pros & cons either way in Europe & if this new Dividend rule means I pay the same either way, I'll be making myself UK Domiciled as I think you only have to visit for 31 days a year to qualify nowadays.

Cheers

JB

I got sidestepped here,I know the thread is Spain,but I'm looking at Portugal,(Algarve) and as one informed poster quoted the tax regime there is off its head,...worldwide assets all swept into one,and I intend living there permanently

I have got to live somewhere,just want out of Thailand,...and the thought of Nakon Nowhere gives me the shivers,dare not go to bed now,nightmares await

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

You would be right if the average expat rented for 21000 baht. Tell me about what 50 Euros buys in Spain for a living experience?

All i could answer with that is Big C v average Spanish supermarket pricing ..and that would be one hell of a lot more than Big C offers

You would be correct if food expenses were the major living expense. Housing is the major expense. If you can't win on housing you loose. I eat for free in Thailand so I guess that makes momma's farm and distillery the winner but that's not the point is it. It is housing expenses. You can compare rent or purchase (condos) but you have to start with housing.

Did I not cover housing? 350 euros for 2 bed nicely situated villa,and there are tons of them in certain areas to rent or buy..yes get daily reports of estate agents in Spain 87000 euros nice modern estates,and before negotiations begin ,so 10% off that price at least ..but if I had to live in Nakon Nowhere for my existence ,free food,booze etc Id top my bloody self I assure you on that point,just would be a nightmare existence for me anyway

Yes been to GFs farm,like the back end of mars distance wise gives me the creeps

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

You would be right if the average expat rented for 21000 baht. Tell me about what 50 Euros buys in Spain for a living experience?

All i could answer with that is Big C v average Spanish supermarket pricing ..and that would be one hell of a lot more than Big C offers

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

Not fortunate enough to have money piled into offshore,but if you could answer this, I hold shares ,quite a few too which obv pay dividends (know they will be taxed) but the whole amount of my holding would that be taxable?

Any answer Thanks

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

That is 17,000 baht vs 3,000 baht. That is not in the same ballpark. The difference is too great to compare the two and since rent/housing expenses are the largest part of most peoples budget I would submit the comparison is not valid.

I would suggest a topic like, "If money is not an object where would you live instead of Thailand."

No it is not. yes I did the tour of the costas 2 to 3 years ago,pound for pound better value Spain,for 350 Euros 2 bed villa nice area modern,pool ,furnished etc, look on a few ex pats sites at pricing.

Here I rent 4 bed detached furnished pool etc for 21000 OK £ gone up,but would be cheaper like for like Spain

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

Again,thanks.

Just looked up expatforum.com Portugal and seems many problems developing,rentals getting closed down because of stiff regulation/hefty fines.

you are sooooooo right 600 year built stuff,the sheer tranquility of it all,morning coffee ,smell of freshly baked bread,sounds naff I know but I miss it all so much

Believe it or not used to speak Spanish (long time ago) so all forgotten almost numo dos tres 'bout it excuse spelling.

Might have to be Spain as a starter,yes plenty of rentals there,then just take it slowly from there.

Thanks again

Just an edit. Lisbon is a expensive airport for destination,Barcelona far cheaper £414 return BKK to Barc via Oslo,booked few months ago. £25 single one way Barc >Lisbon,cheap train or bus down to Algarve

Why fly to Lisbon when you have to be in Algarve?

Faro is the airport of the Algarve.

Yes and am flying into there from LPL,after 2 day visit to UK next month. Pricing for one,two excellent train service Barc to Seville and onward. Is a cheaper than cheap airline starting off on that route ,perhaps next time

BKK>.Oslo>Barc..2 day stopover....Barc>Man2 day stopover> LPL >Faro,pick up hire car .look around Lagos PT and surrounding area> train Lisbon> Lisbon> Barc> Copenhagen>BKK

Loppylugs,

If you are heading to Spain, rent before you buy, or rent long-term. Rents are cheap. You can easily find somewhere for 400 euros per month outside the main centers/tourist spots.

Morning coffee on the terrace of my local bar, watching the world go by, is a really strong pull. Everyone says 'hi', the view of the 600-year-old church is beautiful and you can chat freely. The locals are not slow to express their disgust with those in power

Again,thanks.

Just looked up expatforum.com Portugal and seems many problems developing,rentals getting closed down because of stiff regulation/hefty fines.

you are sooooooo right 600 year built stuff,the sheer tranquility of it all,morning coffee ,smell of freshly baked bread,sounds naff I know but I miss it all so much

Believe it or not used to speak Spanish (long time ago) so all forgotten almost numo dos tres 'bout it excuse spelling.

Might have to be Spain as a starter,yes plenty of rentals there,then just take it slowly from there.

Thanks again

Just an edit. Lisbon is a expensive airport for destination,Barcelona far cheaper £414 return BKK to Barc via Oslo,booked few months ago. £25 single one way Barc >Lisbon,cheap train or bus down to Algarve

4 slice toaster 250 baht Big C bought over a year ago,still working

You don't have to be tax resident anywhere. If you are well organized and happy to move between countries, you can live a life free of income tax. Anyone for a caravan .

Re cars and Spain, just hopping over the border to France or Portugal might not work. The Spanish police are not to be messed with. However, my experience of Spanish life was in a small pueblo. If you are in a medium-sized/large town your presence will be more anonymous.

Thanks for information

Eventually ,if not sooner I want to leave Thailand and its a toss up between the two,Cyprus was an option but waned,so looks as if Portugal is the one warts and all.

Got a couple of mutts too that are tagging along,Thai GF will not stand the life IM sure so no marriage,but I just want to wake up every morning in a refreshing and stable country.

Will register,looks as no choice and as said before bite the bullet.

To purchase cars in Spain are cheap,Portugal more so , but those traffic fines are high

expatsforum.com seems a good starting point to asking the right Qs with people there in Portugal,or Spain,never know might pick up a casa with the expats fleeing a bad tax regime

Since a EU citizen doesn't need a visa for Spain, how they ever gonna proof how many days you were in Spain?

Lots of guys on this forum seem to like writing letters to their local authorities telling them where they are, how long they have been there, and what they are doing.

Take a look at the pensions thread if you don't believe me, it's incredible, the level of stupidity some old guys ......

"Dear Sir,

I am moving to Thailand forever next week, please freeze my pension and cancel my NHS entitlement forthwith ......."

They are off their rockers,truly off their rockers

......bout the car, above ,suppose you could drive it to France and return,start the clock again

Looking at the tax rates introduced in Portugal,was quoted as the perfect place for ex pats,but these rates will do damage...

...but I am getting seriously fed up with Thailand and need out,just have to see if I can bite the bullet. It sure will make expats leave there tho

Loppylugs1,

Your facts on Spain are wrong.

Income tax is considerably higher than in the UK. I know, because I've paid it. Also, they have a wealth tax.

Income tax is also much higher in Portugal. In addition Portugal has a 'solidarity tax' -in addition to income tax- of 3.5% on income over 6790 euros, and interest from accounts in the Channel Islands, Gibraltar and the Isle of Man is taxed at 35%. The fact that The Channel Islands and the IOM report your account to the Portuguese every year, doesn't stop the Portuguese revenue treating you like a criminal.

It's important to know the facts before taking up tax residency in another country, particularly the bankrupt ones of the Med. I guarantee you that the tax you pay will increase in Portugal and Spain after the elections later this year. I'd love to be wrong, but when you look at the debt profile of these countries, the politicos will do what they always do. They'll raid our pockets again. I think I'm correct in saying that private and public debt in Portugal is 350% of GDP. Makes Greece look like a good pupil

Spain is completely over-governed with layer upon layer of administration: central, regional, sub regional, sub-sub regional, and town halls. This is a monstrous waste of money. Taxpayer's money. It's also got a serious corruption problem. The PP is up to its ears in corruption, as is the Junta de Andalusia (PSOE). There are many other cases too. Mallorca has always been run like a family biz by the party in power.

These are wonderful places to live, but the sangria,sardines and sunshine comes at a price. For me, moving to Spain would more than double the percentage of gross income lost to tax ( 14.69% in the UK against 33% in España).

Que mierda, death and taxes

All I can do is quote figures that are published I do look at alternative web sites Britishexpat for one. Yes I know of all the bad tidings that flow ,

The problems with Thailand keep mounting,I think that weighs far more heavily than the news from home. However the US are almost certain to push interest rates up soon ,that would make Europe especially up their rates too

China Aussie NZ oh dear

For all the UK punters with exchange rates and increase in pensions its almost 20% spending increase over the dark days of last year.

Today's news for Thailand according to BP is looking for a total wipe out(almost)

£ hit the Baht quite hard this morning up over 55 mark,24 hours ago was around 54.4. Maybe 60 soon ?

The actual tax in Spain is not a million miles off that of the UK it is the first years demand,that of everything gross is taxed then set aside on the following years tax,seems a lottery if you are ever going to get it back,but Portugal seems a better bet as an alternative to Spain and ultimately Thailand...beam me up Scotty

About to do a survey Of Lagos Algarve for a move,yep 'plane tix booked. Trawled around the costas couple of years ago looking for alternative to life in Thailand and yes beats here by a mile,age and infirmity will dominate the thinking.

Is cheaper Spain,look at supermercado pricing,renting cheaper. just have to say goodbye to Thai long time GF was thinking of marrying,but would miss her family too much.

Here 7 years ,Goa 5 years ,just want to get nearer home

Any comments on Goa? and it's Spanish or Portuguese influence?

Only stay well away,was good ,now awful. Goans still think above common Indians,but all washed up now by Dehli

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Home » Moving to Portugal » Tax regime for non-habitual residents

Tax regime for non-habitual residents

Competitive advantages:

For a period of 10 years, taxation related to IRS (personal income tax) on labour income in Portugal is at a fixed rate of 20%

No double taxation for pensions or for employment and self-employment income obtained abroad

How can you acquire Non-Habitual Resident Status?

Having not been a resident in Portugal for the last 5 years;

Register at the local tax office as a tax resident in Portugal (to do so you must have remained in Portugal for more than 183 consecutive or non-consecutive days, or having remained for less time, having, at 31st December of that year, a home in such conditions that would lead to the assumption that it is intended to be kept and occupied as your habitual residence);

Request that the status of Non-Habitual Resident be attributed at the time of registering as a tax resident in Portugal, or by 31st March of the year following that in which you become a resident in Portugal.

Once Non-Habitual Resident Status has been obtained, what is the taxation rate and incidence applicable to domestic source income?

In the case of employment or self-employment, the applicable taxation rate is 20% (with an additional 3.5% surcharge in 2015).

Registration as a Non-Habitual Resident confers the right to be taxed as such for a period of 10 years as from the year of registering as a tax resident in Portuguese territory.

Once Non-Habitual Resident Status has been obtained, in which cases is foreign income obtained by Non-Habitual Residents in Portugal exempt from taxation?

In the case of pensioners and retired people when:

Income is taxed in the source State, in accordance with the convention to eliminate double taxation, signed by Portugal and that State; or

Income is not considered to have been obtained through a Portuguese source, according to the criteria provided for in the IRS Code (personal income tax).

In the case of income derived from employment, when:

Income is taxed in the State of origin, in accordance with the convention to eliminate double taxation, signed by Portugal and that State; or

That income is taxed in another State with which Portugal has not signed any convention to eliminate double taxation, as long as the income is not considered to have been obtained in Portuguese territory, in accordance with the criteria in article 18 of the IRS Code (personal income tax);

In the case of income from self-employment (through the provision of services of a high added value, of a scientific, artistic or technical nature, or through intellectual or industrial property, investment income, rental income, capital gains income or other increases in equity), when:

The income may be taxed in the source country, territory or region, in accordance with the convention to eliminate double taxation, or;

When no convention to eliminate double taxation has been signed, the OECD model convention may be applied (taking into consideration the observations and reservations made by Portugal) and as long as the source country, territory or region does not have a privileged tax regime, and as long as the income is not considered to have been obtained in Portuguese territory, in accordance with the criteria in article 18 of the IRS (personal income tax).

THIS INFORMATION IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CONSULTING THE APPLICABLE LEGISLATION

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Cannot copy and paste the file I wanted to show,but Portugal has 10 year tax free for foreign residents

money.htm

Spanish tax is quite high,looking at the figures about £ 9000 before tax kicks in then 19% tax up until £15000 then 24%, after that 30% this for pensions

About to do a survey Of Lagos Algarve for a move,yep 'plane tix booked. Trawled around the costas couple of years ago looking for alternative to life in Thailand and yes beats here by a mile,age and infirmity will dominate the thinking.

Is cheaper Spain,look at supermercado pricing,renting cheaper. just have to say goodbye to Thai long time GF was thinking of marrying,but would miss her family too much.

Here 7 years ,Goa 5 years ,just want to get nearer home

The worst tourists I encounter, without doubt, are the brain dead groups of single British males who arrive around Xmas time. Mostly they have shaven heads, are heavily tattooed, always loud, usually drunk and show no respect to anyone. Their behaviour in bars is abhorrent and anyone who objects to their behaviour is threatened with violence. They are an absolute disgrace to their country!

Why pick on the British?, I have seen many Europeans Aussies American just as obnoxious and also met many Brits tourists and ex pats who are quiet the opposite to your labeling of Brits.

Why pick on anyone.. because we want to feel better about ourselves.

Its ok to pick on Arabs, Indians, Chinese, Russians... but when you touch the Brits it suddenly is not ok.

Face it we all have our idiots, im pretty sure there are drunk bald violent high Dutch tourist too and I would dislike those as much as Brits who do the same thing.

However on this forum there are plenty of people thinking that people from their country are the best and their shit does not stink. Seen Brits on this forum gang up on other nationalities often and then cry foul when someone pics on them.

Face it we all have idiots, and I really don't see why people identify with the scum of their own nationality and defend them.

To be expected as we had the most recent and largest ever empire on the planet.

Bringing cricket to impoverished Indians and Pakistanis,educating colonial convicts down under and regaining the ashes in the process lol.

Not wishing to partake in the current crisis in Calais as we're not really part of Europe.

Remember the Americans who speak English in New England.

Singapore,Malaysia,Myanmar which incidentally is called Burma as well as Hong Kong and numerous other territories.

Oops forgot The Falklands,miles from Blighty but still driving Land Rovers.

Jamaica,West Indies and numerous other Caribbean islands.

The problem is Britain that tiny island in the North Sea has had such a dominating era in recent history that people and generations are still not over it.

It dominates world news and history.

And at the end of the day there are a few chavs.

Perhaps this is true,but I hate to see my flag,yes my flag the Union Jack embellish some tarts arse and tits in it

Enough bickering, lets move on please, believe there are other people who want to have a say

Thank You ,at last I can have a say.

Chicken carcasses are 18 baht a kilo in Makro,same -same Big C

Do the cook them free?

Nah,I buy 'em for the soi mutts. stick about 5 in a bucket,cheap rice ,boil it for an hour or so,and Mmmm delicious

Enough bickering, lets move on please, believe there are other people who want to have a say

Thank You ,at last I can have a say.

Chicken carcasses are 18 baht a kilo in Makro,same -same Big C

The Indians and Arabs have always been bad and mis treat all the Thai's, especially women. I can remember about 8 years ago there were bars that has signs posted as you entered stating that the Arabs and other Middle Easterners were not allowed in because of the way they mistreat the women. Unfortunately its part of their culture, So should we expect different when they come here? YES we should as when you visit a foreign place you must respect there culture wether you like it or not.

The Thai tourist industry is mostly responsible, Each year they go to a selected country and sale the trips and everything else about Thailand and then the following season we get those people. 6 years a go it was the Indians, you old timers might remember when they were here as much as the Russians. Then came the Russians, in such big numbers we were all astonished, the condo builders even started making smaller condos so they were affordable to the Russians and Indians. But once more we se the same pattern, Cultures which have no Background of basic manners, its not there fault its there culture. So should we expect different when they come here? YES we should as when you visit a foreign place you must respect there culture wether you like it or not.

Now the Chinese are coming and once more we see more of the Same, A culture with no manners.

Well now that the Ruble has diminished the Russians have all but gone, a few Indians still come but Just the men, and now we have to deal with the busses full of the rude Chinese.... so it seems to me in hindsight that the Thai Tourism Authority has it all wrong...they continue to bend over backwards to get the horribly wrong tourist to come here.......I guess we have to understand that its just part of living here.

You did a good job of not sounding racist there, well done.

When i try that, the namby-pamby PC brigade on here give me a right earbashing....10/10

Totally agree,just wonder where the PC brigade exist?under a rock maybe.,makes me laugh to be accused of being racist,wear the badge with pride

Never found the Russkies too bad,Indians are a problem,walking in the road,ploughed into one recently,but the Chinese stink ,they really do