halloween

On 11/11/2017 at 6:55 PM, JaiLai said:

Nice report from OP, what day of the week did you go, was it busy?

 

Thanks.

Always check your calendar for Thai public holidays. thought I was being clever going on a Tuesday until I found out it was another long weekend.

9 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I would think that at government level and the top latex producing country in the world and with Malaysia and Indonesia control well over 90% of global production, Thailand can be a pivot to better control of supply and demand. He can also plan to attract natural rubber producers for health and scientific and mechanical parts to set up plants in Thailand with a good package of tax breaks and export incentives. 

Producers control supply, not demand. If attracting added value manufacturing would be so beneficial, can you suggest any reason this hasn't happened in the past (except for the fact most latex production is in the south)?

I have a small problem with their basic concept - that the Agriculture Minister is responsible for low commodity prices on the world market.

I can suggest the method most likely to succeed in raising farmers income to Bt390,000 a year each by 2036. Massive inflation.

Suggestion, check for a pulse before commencing CPR.

So now asking a potential sexual partner if she fancies it is variously described as sexual misconduct or harassment? How long before an application in writing, with witnessed signature, is required?

3 hours ago, wakeupplease said:

A ten minute MOT test done by those who do not know the back or front end of a vehicle from what I saw on my last visit to an office.

 

You will not stop this carnage until you get the police out on the roads policing traffic, not a chance in hell things will change until they do the job, its been proved in other countries, look at the UK and its death rate on the roads then ask why its so high here.

Don't you know that if you have a quiet word with the inspector, and pay the extra fee, your MOT test could be extended to take up to a week?

7 hours ago, greenchair said:

Extensive studies have shown that most people don't turn into addicts, they are made into addicts. They do not choose to be addicts, but are compelled to be addicts. I have several friends and 2 brothers that were addicts. With a lot of assistance and proper care they can get clean around 30 to 40 years old. After that they often contribute much much more to society than most people. She is very young, with a little assistance, a small apartment, a part time job and some education classes she would be a great mum. 

You are quite ignorant to the reality of the world. 

I somehow doubt that addicts contribute more to society than those with a 10-20 year start on them. Addicts start with a deficit caused by their years of addiction.

A basic misunderstanding of the purpose of a dam, which is to store water and mitigate flooding.

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Interesting.Thanks for the background on which I was hazy.Incidentally is there a distinction between fiducial and fiduciary?

My main comment would to be suggest that the discussion ignores the fact that this was a policy campaigned upon in a democratic election and implemented by a legitimate government.

Are heads of government bound in a trustee like arrangement with the electors so they can be punished for incompetence/carelessness?

Even so, I’m not very sure that the criminal courts in England would ultimately take the purist line you suggest - not least because it would place both Blair and Cameron behind bars.




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Do you have have proof that both Cameron and Blair failed to carry out their fiduciary responsibilities, or is this your unsupported opinion?

Failing to stop G2G deals proven to be fraudulent was never part of the PTP election policy, it was never accepted by the voters, and I strongly suspect the legitimacy of a government whose members carry out such actions and a leader who refuses to act to stop the deals.

9 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Power cliques are forming in the junta government. It's not performance but conformance. Article 44 abrupt sacking robbed that individual from the due diligence process. It's an embarrassment and a loss of face. Not good for the morale of that ministry. Resignation of the Labour minister and his team is indirect telling junta PM that he is wrong. He has loss control and allow some to influence him. It will only get worse. 

Which individual was sacked?

1 hour ago, stephen tracy said:

So incompetence in your opinion. And I would agree that the junta are the epitome of incompetence but Prayut (or do you prefer: Prayuth?) wanted her gone one way or the other because he knows full well he is despised and despite the Shins venality, he knows they'd win any election hands down and throwing her in jail would have caused a riot among her deluded supporters.  The supporters of the Junta and the Shins are exactly alike in that they both think the people they support care one iota about them.  And no, the simplest is not always "more correct" 

A perfect example of why I don't bother to reply to your posts.

2 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

How else does the most high-profile "criminal" in the country simply leave the country.  It was either case of breath-taking incompetence or complicity. 

Yes, we've heard that theory before. How about rich criminal bribes a few bent cops? Not quite so conspiratorial is it, but the simplest answer is usually the more correct.

4 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Vote buying populism ? Ain't typical Thai either. Vastly perferable above governing without a mandate and suspending basic human rights in the process. 

 

You seem to have a beef for criminals, but I hope you know that the current lot are ... criminals. Pure and simple. Yet you just have a beef for some criminals not all. No use discussing this with you, when you are capable of some rational thoughts, come back.

Do you understand the word discernment? That some criminals are worse than others? I support the improvement of Thai democracy to prevent its abuse, IMO those improvements have gone nowhere near far enough, and the prosecution of those who abused their position - the subject of this thread.

20 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

I did consider it. The democracy in Thailand was fine, especially the version under the 1997 constitution. The only problem is the inability of very few but powerfull citizens to accept the results. 

 

These very same citizens are not improving the democracy, they are ensuring they have continued influence without having to seek a mandate. Read the approved constitution to understand what I am referring to. Even your buddy Abhisit called it "a retreat from democracy. Even he could not approve, that says it all.

It was fine? Worthless vote-buying populism, government by proxy from a criminal, MPs paid to vote to order, criminals appointed by party list, police suborned - how is that fine?

3 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

The highest price. As already pointed out to you, the costs of the coup is quite a bit higher and no end in sight.

 

And that only touches on the financial/economical aspects. 

 

And make no illusions, this isn't typical Thai either, happens all around the world. Politicians that only do what is in their country's best interest tend to not gain all that many votes anywhere on the planet.

But you won't consider the cost of allowing PTP to govern, right? Because that doesn't fit your agenda.

Thai democracy was a demonstrable failure that required modification, a process now under way. You would have it that the coup is too expensive, but the cost of improving democracy is not considered.

24 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

The scam was actually a policy that PT used in their campaign and that resulted in a landslide election victory. That policy was carried out by a 300/500 mandate in the lower house. Action could and should have been taken by the Thai electorate, not by a few nutty generals without a mandate and without any relevant knowledge to run this country, as the post you responded too underlines once more.

And there you have the problem. A majority of the Thai voters would have very likely accepted the bribe, even though it was ruinous for their nation, and again voted for PTP, allowing the losses and theft to continue. What price do we pay for democracy?

2 hours ago, candide said:

There are figures showing well the cost of the coup.

 

According to different sources (BOT, IMF, World Bank, Thai Chamber of Commerce...), the intial forecast for 2014's GDP was between 4.0 and 5.2%, (made at the end of 2013). (After 7.2% growth rate in 2012)

http://www.mfa.go.th/business/contents/files/eco-factsheet-20131220-100445-235435.pdf

 

The GDP growth in 2014 was only .08%, so depending of the initial forecast chosen, it's a loss of between 3.2% and 4.4% of GDP.

That is a loss of GDP between 419 billion baht and 576 billion baht. So it's in the same range as the loss from the rice scheme.

 

The difference is that the rice scheme money went into the Thai economy (even if it was not the best way to do it), while the evaporated GDP growth is completely lost for everyone.

 

If you cumukate the GDP losses in following years, the coup cost far more than the rice scheme.

So it would have been better to allow PTP to borrow their proposed B2.2 trillion to allow their scam to continue? Just how big a loss/theft is necessary before taking action?

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

 

There were plenty of opportunities to charge Thaksin before his exile which were ignored.Still if you have evidence that under the new legislation Thaksin is to be charged with the Drugs War please provide it.If this is not yet known we can but wait and see.If he is charged with it I will issue a groveling apology.If he is not then we can take it you reciprocate and acknowledge your blinkered prejudice and refusal to face facts.


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I made no mention of the drugs war. I do expect him to be charged with the KTB scam and promoting terrorism, far more serious charges than he has faced so far.

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Slim pickings nowadays for junta supporters and have to resort on flogging a dead horse and trying to instigate something out of nothing. Pitiful attempt. 

Yeah, right, B500 billion worth of nothing.

4 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

You repeat the lie the Shinawatras benefited.The state prosecution didn’t even make this claim.If you have any details which can be verified please provide them.Otherwise don’t make up stuff.

Incidentally your excuse of other cases being irrelevant doesn’t make sense.You made a general proposition about what should happen to criminal politicians.When presented with examples that dont fit in with your case, you dismiss them as irrelevant.


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The topic is the 'hounding' of the Shinawatras, and I see no reason to discuss other politicians because you would like to. My opinion that blatantly corrupt politicians enriched themselves by favouring criminal cronies is far closer to the truth than your blanket denial, backed only by that they have not been prosecuted, yet.

32 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Quite so.But why didn't it happen? There were plenty of opportunities to pin him down but the elites remained silent - even now - while pursuing him on relatively trivial charges.Why do you think that is? Is it ignorance or dishonesty that keeps you silent on this critical point?

But who is displaying it? Thaksin's absence has prevented him being charged with most of his serious crimes, a situation now being remedied by new legislation. Were you not aware of that vfacet of Thai law which prevented criminals being charged in absentia?

5 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I agree your first sentence but you are silent on whether it applies just to those you disapprove of.There are several politicians who have presided over the murder of civilians, who have treasonably seized power by force of arms, who have refused to give details of huge fortunes earned on miniscule  salaries.Do these gert a pass?

 

Whether the rice subsidy cost the country a lot is very unfortunate but it is not a crime - and nobody has been charged with it.The military coup has cost the country untold billions but I don't think the offenders are to be charged.

 

I see you slipped in a lie.Nobody serious has ever suggested the Shinawatras benefited personally.

No they don't get a pass, they are simply irrelevant to the criminals being discussed. If you choose to believe that the coup cost the country more than the rice scam, or that the Shinawatras didn't profit from that scam, up to you. Many others believe things that defy logic.

Any study of the rise and fall of Apichart, a favoured criminal given enormous levels of preferential treatment, involved in every level of the rice scam and G2G scam and now serving a very long sentence, would indicate otherwise.

10 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

This is precisely the stupidity that drags Thailand down.

 

If there is a desire to go after the Shinawatras, fine.

 

But, if there is not an equal desire to go after all the other criminals, both in civilian and military life, then it is merely the petulant and meaningless "justice" of the powerful.

 

Either there is justice for all or there is justice for none. 

 

TYVM for your flame. I won't point out how puerile the "Little Johnny did it too!" argument is, because it is blatantly obvious. Some prosecution is a far larger deterrent than none, and there are few more blatantly corrupt than the Shinawatras, or more deserving of it. Their blatant corruption and wasteful vote-buying policies have cost my family dearly in infrastructure and improvement of this country.

While in office they avoid prosecution by buying bent police, appointing family members to high BIB positions and attempted bribery of judges. When they are finally booted, sycophants moan about unfair treatment.

The reasons for prosecution are completely irrelevant when the case is proven.

There is a lot to be gained by letting politicians know that criminal abuse of their position will lead to lengthy incarceration or self-exile to escape it.  Let us agree that Yingluck’s rice-subsidy scheme cost the country billions of baht, let us agree that quite a lot of that ended up in the pockets of the Shinawatras and their cronies, should we just forget about it until the next crooked politician does the same or something similar?