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Krenjai
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Posts posted by Krenjai
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Maybe this has been posted here already but here is a very good read of what DNA is all about from 007cableguy
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Anonymous hacks away 1 GB.......(download link available in the twitter post)
The RTP must be getting under huge pressure but the Koh Tao verdict will stil stand up in the Appeals & Supreme Courts so they better prepare for a long battle with the Hacker Anonymous Group, which is a battle I wouldn't wish to have.......!
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Here is a summary of her take on the court proceedings and was there to witness your all powering DNA greendoor
This is a very short summary, in lay men's terms, of exactly WHY the DNA evidence and it's alleged conclusions (by the Royal Thai Police) are scientifically, and legally, completely and utterly flawed.
1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.
2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!
3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)
4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!!!
5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!
For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!
"Below is my own (heidi anna) personal recollection of events, as recalled from all court sessions, to the best of my recollection. I hereby make no claims that it is 100% accurate:
The defense team requested that the DNA be retested independently and the court finally, after much time and the trial was already well underway, agreed. The police first stated that the DNA sample was "all used up", which is-in actuality-scientifically impossible!
Then the police later (one or two days time) stated, "no, it was not all used up. we have some of the solution left." The defense team was granted permission in court to independently retest the sample and so technicians from Dr. Porntip's lab took cheek swabs from both accused boys, in court under close observation, during the court session during which Dr. Porntip testified.
BUT, what actually remained of the police's alleged DNA "evidence" to be retested was, in fact, merely the midway solution required in the actual DNA testing process itself. This midpoint solution will give an accurate profile, however, it CANNOT determine the actual ORIGINAL SOURCE of the DNA! Therefore, it will NOT show if original alleged DNA from the female decedent at the crime scene came from "semen" as the Royal Thai Police claim, or if it in fact came from oral mucosa, skin, hair, blood, saliva, cigarette butts, etc.
Also, the court demanded that the DNA evidence from Dr. Porntip's lab be returned to the COURT itself and NOT to the defense team!!! Thus, the results and factual information would be completely out of the defense teams hands and thereby highly susceptible to contamination / falsification. For those two reasons, the defense team then; very wisely, declined retesting.
Independent verification (and independent receipt) is another "inalienable human right", as well as a legal right, agreed upon per international standards, so, once again; the accused boys rights were severely violated.
As a licensed and board certified medical professional, very familiar with and highly experienced with legalities as well as the strict scientifically necessary procedures which MUST be adhered to during the collection of (and rigid documentation of) forensic evidence acquired from rape victims in the Emergency Room intended to be used in a legal court of law in the United States of America, I'm shocked and appalled by the disgracefully unprofessional and non-scientifically qualifying (accurate) collection and so called documentation methods utilized by members of the Royal Thai Police whilst on the crime scene, as well as every action and process of documentation of the alleged DNA evidence utilized and displayed by the Royal Thai police de facto crime scene location. It is my educated and highly experienced professional, and personal, opinion that no one can even be at all certain-in any way-that there ever actually was semen present at the crime scene.
Excellent post and refreshing to read. I am sure that Hannah her clothes would have revealed the "real' DNA of the perpetrators, but......as we know.....her clothes got lost by the RTP. How in the hell do you lose those clothes, unless you want to lose them, right?
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""What I would like to know is : could or did the Norfolk coroner manage to obtain sample of semen inside Hannah that could be tested for DNA?""
No not very likely because that would be the key to prove the B2 are innocent, and even if such a sample exists it would not be accepted by the Thai courts! Even if you would read a headline like: "Norfolk Coroner, on behalf of the families and request of Andy Hall, did test samples against the DNA of the B2 and did not find a match", it would still be dismissed by the Thai courts.They decided who did this long time ago!
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The DNA found on Hannah which apparently matched the DNA of the B2 according to the RTP was not available for verification because it was either lost or used up, what more is there to know? Not one civilized court in any civilized country would have allowed a conviction based on that.
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The verdict was not based on the RTP's word. It was based on the DNA evidence!!
A handwritten form by the in-house RTP forensics department claiming a DNA match with alterations and dated after the announcement of the Burmese kids confessions. What would normally be provided in the form of a chain of custody was not provided. The only documented DNA evidence presented in court was that the accuseds' DNA was not on the alleged murder weapon. Other relevant DNA samples were lost, used up or not tested. In my book, it still comes down to the RTP's word.
Lack of chain of custody doesn't invalidate the DNA evidence, it may make it disputable but that's all.
I recall posts in the other Koh Tao threads that OJ Simpson was acquitted because of lack of chain of custody, well it was not, he was acquitted because the forensic team was unable to explain the forensic evidence in an to the jury understandable language.
With OJ it was a bit different, despite overwhelming evidence he was guilty he was acquitted, here we have the complete opposite, despite overwhelming evidence (or should we say non-exiting evidence) the B2 are not guilty they got convicted!
The DNA presented was "RTP hearsay" DNA which could not be verified anymore, we all know why....it wouldn't have matched!
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This is going to cost Thailand Billions and Billions of dollars before the real killers are brought to justice , not baht but dollars! These killers are not worth it !!! Why bring down an entire country for a few bad apples... I have never in my 20+ years here seen anything like this ......
Loss of Face is more powerful and KT will be business as usual
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The Millers either:
1) really believe that, which completely blows my mind if that would be the case. I wonder what the Witheridges think about them and if they are on speaking terms
2) took money to read that statement which was obviously well prepared and typed up before the verdict came out.
3) can never admit to point 2 and don't know how to get out of this hole, so they back paddle on the death penalty
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As pointed out on the Luke Miller threat an interesting post was made by Islandlover:
""The family of David Miller are still sticking to their guns and saying they believe the B2 are guilty. However, they are now back-pedaling on the death penalty aspect of the verdict, according to an article published in the Jersey Evening Post, coincidentally the same day that Laura Witheridge made her facebook statement.""
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This is an extremely difficult and sensitive case and has drawn widespread interest in Thailand and Worldwide. I do not doubt that the Facebook post by Laura was accurate. As I mentioned before- I honestly believe something was lost in translation regarding the statements. Unless one is very skilled in both the Thai language and the cultural meaning- poor translations can make an intended well meaning statement into a very cold and coarse statement. Without hearing the Thai and how it was translated it is impossible to judge the intent. Communication issues are one of the biggest problems in cross cultural situations in Thailand. Just ask any long term expat. As far as threats against life and liberty- widespread publicity brings out the worst type of person to make crass and crude comments for whatever reason. Many of these hanger-ons are mentally ill in the same manner an arsonist must view the fires they set.
The Anonymous clip summarizes the case quite well and points out areas that need investigation. I would hope the defense team has their own investigators working on these inconsistencies and can point them out during the appeal phase.Also, remember the prosecution will not sit by idly and will have a response whether we agree or not, I could point out other cases in Thailand that are similar but then I can also point out other cases in America that are also similar. No matter what country these type of cases occur it appears once the police are 'satisfied' with their investigation the wagons become circled and the police, prosecutors and others become more adamant they are right. This case will eventually go to the Supreme Court for the final conclusion. My heart goes ou to the families. They are in for a lengthy ordeal,
""I would hope the defense team has their own investigators working on these inconsistencies and can point them out during the appeal phase"""
As far as I know NO new evidence will be allowed in, they will only consider the judgement of the judge based on the evidence presented. It will not be reversed The loss of face for the PM, the RTP & Courts will be to grave. You are right it will end up in the Supreme Court (with the same result). The B2 will spend years waiting for a non guilty verdict they will never get. Welcome to Thailand! The land of smiles!
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Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry
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http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-35285866
Luke Miller Thai pool death: Family 'concern' over inquiry -
............but expats here have a great concern about how the authorities handled the case, and wether they are safe from a similar fate
Nobody is safe from a similar fate, nobody! It could be you next time or anybody else!
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Here is the comment from Laura, next time read the thread properly before you out yourself again; "I reported them. Like I reported the crime scene photos being sent to me. UK police logged into my Facebook and made them disappear but no one was ever punished or held accountable for any of it... as with all of it, it was swept under the rug. "
Okay I'll give you that one. Indeed a reply to a comment on her post.
In the meantime can someone give me an answer as to why that whole part about those insensitive comments from the RTP has been deleted from her original facebook posting?
Why don't you ask her instead of asking strangers to speculate over and over?
Indeed she did delete from her FB page........
- * “Many of the thai people have no regard for human life. My evidence for this statement: firstly, some quotes of the things said to my bereaved, heart broken family by the judges and court officials at the trial of the two Burmese migrants-
- *“why are you here? Why do you care? She is dead already”
- * “why are you so bothered? Just go home and make another one”
- * “why are you making such a fuss, she will be back in 30 days as something else, she may have better luck next time”
I am sure there is a reason (legalities?). The fact she deleted them does not mean these things were not said. I am sure they were, but hard to prove exactly when and by whom I guess. I think it is clear however where she stands: the B2 are innocent!
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Lets not forget Luke Miller........the world should demand to see the CCTV footage between 05.30-07.30 of the Sunset Bar. if those hours are not recorded (or lost) we know the score.......
1) At 05.30 security searched the pool for lost valuables as they do after every big pool party, no sign of Luke
2( At 07.30 he was found by cleaners.
Lets not forget Luke!
I agree , but what if there was no CCTV footage in that time period? Would you still believe it was an accident or just accept it as another brutal murder?
If you have read my posts on the Luke Miller thread you'd know the answer. But ok, one more time I believe this was a murder!
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Lets not forget Luke Miller........the world should demand to see the CCTV footage between 05.30-07.30 of the Sunset Bar. if those hours are not recorded (or lost) we know the score.......
1) At 05.30 security searched the pool for lost valuables as they do after every big pool party, no sign of Luke
2( At 07.30 he was found by cleaners.
Lets not forget Luke!
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I think it is possible to get (criminal) IT experts trace where the emails originated from, probably from some Internet cafe in KT, maybe Mon & Co. were even so dumb to send it from their private IP address.... wishful thinking I know.
The more I think about the (well prepared & typed up) statement of the Millers directly after the verdict the more I am convinced they did accept money to read that statement...... if that comes out to be true............wow.....wishful thinking again I know.
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I am convinced we will hear from Laura again, possibly even from her parents. This will all depend on the reaction, if at all, from the RTP. If their response is to harsh towards Laura her accusations I hope she will fight back with everything she got. This is the dilemma the RTP is faced with right now as we speak. Of course they can never admit these things were said, money was offered for their silence etc, so they will probably blame it on some sicko's that live in every part of the world. So Laura, I suggest to start preparing a draft with the names, dates & times.
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Something I've never seen mentioned in the KT threads is the popularity of Ketamine on the islands - a young lad that I spoke to recently said it was being sold in a lot of bars in Ko Phangan over Xmas, so I'm sure it's the same in KT. I don't know much about it, but I know it can put people in a semi-comatose state, just in case that's useful to uncovering the real story here. RIP Luke.
I have no idea about these drugs but Ketamine so i looked it up
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/prescription/ketamine.html
Ketamine, categorized as a “dissociative anesthetic,”1 is used in powdered or liquid form as an anesthetic, usually on animals. It can be injected, consumed in drinks, snorted, or added to joints or cigarettes. Ketamine was placed on the list of controlled substances in the US in 1999.
Short- and long-term effects include increased heart rate and blood pressure, nausea, vomiting, numbness, depression, amnesia, hallucinations and potentially fatal respiratory problems. Ketamine users can also develop cravings for the drug. At high doses, users experience an effect referred to as “K-Hole,” an “out of body” or “near-death” experience.
Due to the detached, dreamlike state it creates, where the user finds it difficult to move, ketamine has been used as a “date-rape” drug.
Fits KT! Maybe one of the unknown side effects is destroying CCTV equipment before climbing on booths in the middle of the night, cut yourself and dive face down in a pool with 4 ft of water?
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A pretty damning criticism of the RTP (and indeed Thailand) has just been posted by Laura Witheridge on her facebook page. It refers to this incident.
Reading that post from Hannah's sister plus the fact she links to the "Anonymous Video" (which you should look at) I believe it is very likely the Witheridge family also believes the B2 are scapegoats. I wonder when they will go public with this view!
mmmmmm
so why do DM's family disagree?
More exposure to RTP BS?
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A pretty damning criticism of the RTP (and indeed Thailand) has just been posted by Laura Witheridge on her facebook page. It refers to this incident.
Reading that post from Hannah's sister plus the fact she links to the "Anonymous Video" (which you should look at) I believe it is very likely the Witheridge family also believes the B2 are scapegoats. I wonder when they will go public with this view!
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She has made a post from her facebook page to the Sunset facebook page, so is that been done by a sicko hacker or maybe it's for real, certainly suspicious BK post did not run a story as yet and security guards never saw Luke in the pool or on the premises at 5.30. Considering he did not stay there and its a pool bar then he must have just slipped back in, in cloaking mode somewhere between 5.30 and 7.30 , Hallucinating of course that the party was still raging and climbed up onto the roof and dived head first int a 4 foot deep pool.
Where is the rest of the CCTV footage showing the scurity guards check and the subsequent 2 hours in which the invisable man dived. Im afraid I go with the murder camp here.Yes, where is the rest of the CCTV footage? Did they close the CCTV down after 05.30? Not very likely yes? So where is that CCTV footage of that place AFTER 05.30 considering the fact that 05.30 (according to the RTP) was the time when the last search of that pool was done. If there was a body floating in that pool at 05.30 it is impossible to overlook, the pool is too small and there is enough floodlight thus your theory is correct, he slipped back in, hallucinating the party was still ongoing climbed onto the roof of the DJ boot and dived head first into that pool. Pretty amazing stuff....!
I bet the CCTV footage 05.30 -07.30 will not be found/shown, it has been erased, the tapes cannot be found or whatever .....same same as the CCTV of the AC bar claiming Hannah & David left together. These places are dangerous, so if you still go there, well you could have known.
We have to send Peter Falk!
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Speculation speculation speculation, yes true but don't expect any news from the RTP, Scotland Yard nor the British Embassy. Besides that the RTP news after the B2 debacle cannot be trusted, period!
Fact remains we have another person dying in Koh Tao who apparently dived of a booth after 05.30am, hit bottom first with his head, in a packed hard core party beach-bar where security regularly searches the pool for lost belongings with no witnesses at all. On top of that he has some scratches in his face from barbed wire located on the top a DJ booth.
Sorry, but I continue to speculate on this sequence of events!
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1. Body found floating in water
2. Head injuries
3. Scratches to face
4. Happened during the night
5. Koh Tao
6. Surname - Miller
7. No witnesses
So nothing at all suspicious then!
8 the iron on the roof was bent down, It was bent down before the death I downloaed a pic from b4 this happened and was like that long time.
9 the pace was packed one hour b4 sunset, but the owners of the bar saw nothing and failed to see him still there b4 they locked up.10 Police kept the release of any information quiet and still quiet.Why would you climb up and jump into a pool when everyone has gone, who do you impress? yourself.Maris Miller has posted from facebook onto the Sunset bars face book page, read it yesterday saying things don't add up and suspects he was murdered, it's pretty hard to do that if she isn,t Maria Miller.I don't know if the place was packed 1 hour b4 sunset but looking at their hard core party animal club facebook page (check "The Sunset"), one can assume it was. On top of that they have security who regularly search the pool for lost belongings and the last search they did was conducted at 05.30 am.
THIS DOES NOT ADD UP, period!
Police consider prosecuting Koh Tao victim's sister over Thailand criticism
in Thailand News
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Anonymous hacks away 1 GB.......(download link available in the twitter post)
http://news.softpedia.com/news/anonymous-releases-1gb-of-data-from-supreme-court-of-thailand-498941.shtml?utm_content=bufferdd5fc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
The RTP must be getting under huge pressure but the Koh Tao verdict will stil stand up in the Appeals & Supreme Courts so they better prepare for a long battle with the Hacker Anonymous Group, which is a battle I wouldn't wish to have.......!