Asheron

I assume that your next trip will be to Yemen and you'll preach on the largest square about them not having intercourse with 9 year old girls... because hey, you are consistent right? Surely there are bigger issues in the world, especially in Thailand, than which adult is having sex with another adult regardless of age.

But i want to point out that you are in fact preaching how people should live their lives (not haing sex with someone under 22). And because you realize how bizarre your preaching is you're also demanding a law against such behaviour.

So if I might summarize your particularly feeble argument, you're basically saying, "Girls are being abused in Yemen, why are you looking at what depraved old men are doing in Thailand? At least we're paying!"

Ok well, I live in Thailand. The topic is about Thailand and the few baht you might pay won't fade the scars on the young mind of a 17-22 year old Thai girl who's had to indulge your fantasies.

If you're one of the elderly men exploiting these young girls, then I don't really expect you to agree with my point of view but at least try and back your argument with more than childish suggestions I look at exploitation elsewhere.

I'm sure i'm younger than you and i live in Thailand as well. But it still doesn't change the fact that it's not your business what, how, when or why adults do the things they do. Any view other than that and you doing exactly what you are saying you aren't: preaching.

Maybe you are one of those people that see a 19 year old thai WOMAN and automatically in your head she turns into a 15 year old GIRL.

When someone is 18 they can have seuxal relationships with whom they want. Get off your wannabe high horse and realize that you have no business telling anyone how to live their lives, not even under 18 year olds as that is the business of their parents.

But saying that it's very obvious you are a troll, a very sofisticated one, but a troll nontheless.

And yes, i love feeding trolls. It's my Internet hobby.

I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives. As long as it doesn't affect the lives of others.

An elderly man having sexual relations with a local girl under 22 is subjecting her to trauma that will almost certainly leave a mental scar.

I think our lives would go on perfectly normally if a law that protects vulnerable Thai girls from aged sexpats/tourists was introduced. What difference would it make to you?

That men of an age that ought to know better can stand against something that aims to reduce/alleviate suffering - even if it's only in a small corner of what is a huge national industry - is sickening.

I suppose the imposition of such a law would end the dream for many of you who feel being in/visiting Thailand is akin to some kind of sexual Disneyland where anything goes as long as it stays hush-hush

I assume that your next trip will be to Yemen and you'll preach on the largest square about them not having intercourse with 9 year old girls... because hey, you are consistent right? Surely there are bigger issues in the world, especially in Thailand, than which adult is having sex with another adult regardless of age.

But i want to point out that you are in fact preaching how people should live their lives (not haing sex with someone under 22). And because you realize how bizarre your preaching is you're also demanding a law against such behaviour.

Or alternatively, he's not even in Thailand, but in some damp, depressing bedsit, or still living with his mum, and is just eaten up with jealousy and resentment.

No sorry you're wrong but at least you're consistent with the other elderly men on the thread with not-so-fertile-anymore imaginations who automatically assume that anyone holding a morally-decent POV must be jaded and disappointed with his own life.

I would wager any amount that if any of you had 17 year old daughters, you'd be mortified if an elderly sexpat/tourist proposed handing her a modest wad of notes in return for spreading her legs.

For those who asked if the same rules would apply to younger sexpats/tourists, in my experience, the younger men aren't engaged in active pursuit of barely legal girls.

To be fair, neither are the majority of older men but, of those who seem to discuss it with increasing regularity, the lion's share appear to be older (50-60 up).

The suggestion that men are somehow hardwired to desire 17-18 year old girls is drivel. Men are hardwired to impregnate as many women as they possibly can but, lo and behold, most of us manage to conduct monogamous relationships without too much difficulty. I think paying a 17 year old, poorly-educated Thai girl is the worst kind of exploitation of her situation that should arouse in us compassion and a desire to protect, not have us unzipping our fly.

Trying to justify it by saying, "Oh these girls know what they're doing and would bleed us dry given half the chance" makes it even more reprehensible. Classic language of the sex tourist willing to excuse exploitation as long as he can satisfy himself with a girl of an age that most societies would deem highly-inexperienced and vulnerable.

Justifying it by saying "Ah they've been abused by family or village Thai boys already" is egregious. If you discover a woman who's been raped lying by the side of the road, does that mean that it shouldn't be a problem to screw her too because the damage is already done by someone else?

Some of you really need to look in the mirror and ask yourselves what living in/visiting Thailand for sex has de-sensitized you to because it seems that some elderly men are titillated by the warped sense of achievement they get from sexually defiling someone they'd be expected to protect in any decent society.

When someone is 18 they can have seuxal relationships with whom they want. Get off your wannabe high horse and realize that you have no business telling anyone how to live their lives, not even under 18 year olds as that is the business of their parents.

But saying that it's very obvious you are a troll, a very sofisticated one, but a troll nontheless.

And yes, i love feeding trolls. It's my Internet hobby.

http://www.mol.go.th/en/content/page/6347 Now it is looking much more professional. It is as of yet not clear what the reason was for the funny translation. For all we know they might have been hacked by someone wanting to make them lose face... Stranger things have happened.

Yes certainly much better, but I still don't understand why civil engineers are included in the list that's mainly manual work. Although number 33 makes me laugh, rolling your own cigs is not allowed !!!!!!!

Is it really forbidden? To my knowledge it is quite common that foreigners help thai companies with these kind of things.

Predictable cries of ageism when someone suggests that 50+ year old men actively pursuing 18 year old Thai girls for sexual relationships is morally repugnant.

Can't really expect anything else given the sheer numbers of sexpats and sex tourists on the forum but I think most right-thinking people in our home countries would fully support the imposition of a law that criminalised it.

Serious question OP: How do you feel about 25-26 yr old foreigners coming to Thailand to take advantage of 17-18 yr old Thai girls? Would that not be equally repugnant?

After seeing some of the specimens that arrive here on holiday in Pattaya, I'd have to say yes. Don't forget, these are young guys who are repugnant to women in their own country, that's why they came to Thailand in the first place.

I see plenty of younger guys arriving in Thailand that wouldn't have any issues getting women in their own country and that even without paying for the pleasure. But yes, many men like asian women more for many reasons.

Probably the same way anyone with a 17 year old daughter who has a 26 year old tourist show up at the front door to take her out.

Said foreign tourist covered in tattoos with facial hair and poorly dressed.

Unable likely to make or maintain a relationship in his own country due to unattractiveness, lack of social skills, poor education, or criminality.

Hey, it's not the thais fault they can't grow a beard.

Maybe OP should be more concerned about protecting underage girls from getting pregnant from their Thai boyfriends than about imposing his self-righteous, intolerant, paternalist and puritan worldview on others.

This isn't a topic about underage Thai girls and their Thai boyfriends, is it?

It's a topic about barely legal Thai girls and the elderly foreign men who travel halfway around the world to indulge in activities with them that would see them heavily derided if they did the same in their home countries.

Anyone who doesn't give two F's about what people think of them, even in their home country, are the real people everyone should look up to, not some archaic wannabe Bible/Quran-thumping moralist.

The OP has raised a

valid issue. It's easy to

say the girls are

consenting adults but

everyone knows that 17

or 18 year old Thai girls

have the mentality of 13

-15 year olds back home

- they're not really adults

so they can't consent.

It's not at all a valid point. If they haven't been "certified" then they can consent at 18.

Why not make it world-wide, you can't just discriminate. So it would be illegal for some 60 year old, mega-rich rock star in America or the UK to marry or have sex with any girl under 20. Good luck with that. Why do you think all those 16 year old groupies are down at the stage at rock concerts?

Nice one!

@OP

Age of consent in Spain is 13, why not have a go there first?

Seems it's 16 now: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/spain-raises-age-of-consent-for-marriage-and-sex-to-16-1.2295109

I personally think it's good they raised it from 13.

In Sweden anyone who is 15 or older can have sex with anyone who is 15 or older UNLESS you are under 18 and have sexual realtionship with someone you have a "dependency" for... like stepdad/mom then it's a crime.

Often referred to as a "love hate relationship"..........she loves the Money, he Hates being alone, and look what the money can get.

This topic and subject matter just keeps on revolving. same old arguments, same old regurgitated but slightly re-worded responses.

I disagree.

I'm not suggesting that big age gaps in relationships are wrong because I don't believe they are. If a 55 year old wants to date or marry a 25 year old, all well and good. If that's based on money or whatever, who cares?

I'm suggesting that Thai girls under the age of 22 - unlike similarly aged girls in the USA or Europe - don't really have the emotional maturity to consider the implications and ramifications of having a physical relationship with a man three times their age and, therefore, should be protected from predatory foreigners who are far more likely to seek them out purely for sex.

I'd like to see it extended to Thai men too but there are some cultural aspects that might cause stiff resistance.

Most of us are from countries where the sight of a 60 year old man clearly in a physical relationship with a 17 or 18 year old girl would be considered highly objectionable so most of us wouldn't have a problem with the passing of such a law.

So you are really a racist?

You are saying that because thai girls with their brownish skin and black hear are too stupid (you know, genetically according to you) they can't "handle" these kind of things and need "protection".

And only prejudice people would care what kind of age gap a couple has. It's basicly non of your <deleted> business.

Either a Troll or a self righteous prat

Oh I get it.

I'm a troll because I dare to question what you perceive is your God-given right to pay to push your senile penile into a girl a third of your age?

Well alright then

@ "senile penile"

Who's going to draw the line, you?

No, the law

Really dumb question

Once upon a time it was legal to own humans, segregation was legal, apartheid was legal and even gassing humans was legal. Your point with that "law" comment?

Its not about protecting young Thai girls , it should be dont abuse any women, what ever Nationality,Many Do not understand or want to understand Thai culture, many men think All these bar girls and older women sell there bodys because they are nymphomaniacs. Most sex tourist come to Thailand because they can get away with things they would not dare to do at home.

You just hit jackpot with "not many right statements".

It's 600 baht, c'mon now. I can so easily imagine the opposite of this post, where someone would complain they were handed medicine without the doctor even telling them what they were given. The consultation with the doctor, no matter how short, is important because he's personally looking at what you're being prescribed and giving the OK for you to take it.

You mean the same doctors that give antibiotics against common cold? My experience with swwdish doctors are that the they triple check that the medicine they are about to give to you are really the correct medicine by reading online AND book in their office. My experience with thai doctors "ohh you hab sick? heee theek touuu everli dhay" and hands me a bad of antibiotics.

The last thing Thailand need are more laws that restriction freedom of speech.

Just wanted to give another "immigrant murders 3 people with knife" less than two years ago in Norway: http://www.svd.se/bussmorden-vacker-fragor

The circumstances to IKEA are quite like. The guy in the link i give had gotten an extradition order to Spain (because of Dublin treaty) which would have been executed "next day".

What i am asking myself (and many others): why is anyone even allowed to freely walk around in any country if they are to be extradited?

Some info from Bra, Sweden's official crime statistics site, relating to hate crimes in 2014…

Afrophobia 1,075 – 17%

Anti-Roma 287 – 5%

Islamophobia 492 – 8%

Anti-Semitism 267 – 4%

Christianphobia 321 – 6%

More info:

https://www.bra.se/download/18.3f29640714dde2233b1d670a/1439277572809/2015_Hatecrime_2014.pdf

You know that they count stuff like "i don't like hijabs" as "islamophobia" right? An estimate is that there are about 20 000 jews left in Sweden (less than buddhist, mind you) and a very low estimate of 500 000 muslims. In other words there are ~25 times more muslims than jews in Sweden yet there are only double the amount of "islamophobia" than "anti-semitism"... quite clear who has it the toughtest in Sweden when it comes to hate crime.

And there is no category for hate crimes against ethnic swedes as the former JK[1] clearly ruled that swedes can't be target of hate crime in Sweden regardless of what the perpetrator said or did.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chancellor_of_Justice_(Sweden)

There is something called "förundersökningssekretess" in Sweden which basicly means everything the police is doing around this case is classified. That classified "stamp" is usually entirely lifted when something goes to trial BUT they (government) can if they want classify some of what is in the reports.

Regarding the "beheaded or not"... there has been quite a fuzz/buzz in social media why the police are neither confirming NOR denying such a thing. The reason for the fuzz/buzz is because swedish police are generally very quick on either confirming or denying something spread on social media regarding "high attention crimes". One such case was the "arson" (which wasn't an arson, it was an accident) against the mosque in Uppsala when police very quickly denied (same day) that a deep fryer had been the reason for the fire in the mosque.

Aside from normal police practice for disseminating information there is some information that it is illegal to collate (correct me if I'm wrong), such as prison population broken down by either religion or ethnicity. Some things are deemed completely out of bounds for discussion even. You may find the following of interest, it is a blog created by a Swede who emigrated to the U.S, he backs up all his opinions and assertions to articles in the Swedish media. A little more difficult for some of our esteemed members to dismiss based on a one sentence summary written in Wikipedia. Thus when he talks about Swedish no go Zones he is translating directly from a Swedish police spokesman. The main focus is of cause the out of control immigration which is threatening to change Sweden into something unrecognizable from the third wealthiest Country in the world which it once was.

http://swedenreport.org

When I was a child, Sweden was a dull yet very safe place to live. Yes, there was a heavy blanket of socialism and collectivist values covering everything, but there was a core of pragmatism beneath the redness. The intention and goal was always to benefit the citizens, even though they went about things in a backwards manner.

Today, it’s as if the inmates are running the asylum. The politicians are participating in a chicken race of “goodness” where everybody tries to one-up each other in caring for the citizens of OTHER countries while Swedish retirees, school children, handicapped and other vulnerable categories of people are thorougly ignored. Violence is exploding. Jihadist Trojan horses are flowing through the porous border along with the tens of thousands ID-less refugees.

I have before read some of that link you posted and what i read is accurate for the normal Swede. It's of course not accurate for all the politicians and journalists that live in basicly homogenous swedish areas and if they happen to have an immigrant as neighbour he is then filthy rich IT-entreprenour or something like that. The Sweden just 15-20 years ago is gone and will never ever coming back... and that has made me dislike Sweden and it's population for doing that to the degree that i wish i could somehow get a crap load of money and never ever have to put my foot there again.

You just can't explain to someone not living in Sweden* how it is now. You just can't. And if you actually try your hardest to explain they either call you a racist, fascist, nazi or islamophobe (even though nothing was said about muslims nor islam) or a combination of those.

*and by living in Sweden i mean areas such as Haninge, Botkyrka, Kista, Tensta, Akalla, Alby etc.

For the same reason the hi-fi equipment is on loudest... they are all semi or completely deaf. This is also the reason why you never get the correct food you order, always get the wrong direction when you ask and they yell to each other even though they stand 2 meters from each other.

<snip>

Swedish security agencies have not made the link to Islamic extremism

Like any government department, their official spokesmen have the government's hand up their bottom moving their lips.

I fail to see why the Swedish government would deliberately misinform the Swedish public of an attack by Islamic extremists, for sure the facts will be disclosed in Court. However, Asheron, posted above that a Swedish media outlet, Aftonbladet “did something as rare as unicorns, they printed very early on that they both were Christians”. There have been other claims that the attacker who committed the murders has an Eritrean Christian surname. We will soon be informed whether these claims are factual or not.

Various political parties had made errors of judgement on 'illegal migrants', but to then turn around and support far right political ideology is, IMO, also an error of judgement for the future of Western nations' societies.

There is something called "förundersökningssekretess" in Sweden which basicly means everything the police is doing around this case is classified. That classified "stamp" is usually entirely lifted when something goes to trial BUT they (government) can if they want classify some of what is in the reports.

Regarding the "beheaded or not"... there has been quite a fuzz/buzz in social media why the police are neither confirming NOR denying such a thing. The reason for the fuzz/buzz is because swedish police are generally very quick on either confirming or denying something spread on social media regarding "high attention crimes". One such case was the "arson" (which wasn't an arson, it was an accident) against the mosque in Uppsala when police very quickly denied (same day) that a deep fryer had been the reason for the fire in the mosque.

Magazines like Front Page and Dispatch International have stated anti immigration in general and anti Islam in particular agendas.

To claim they are independent, objective sources is the act of the desperate.

Do you that kind of view against people who are anti-nazism and communism? Or is it only because of islam? Because surely you know that islam is an ideology that in detail says how a society should be and shouldn't be.

As ever, this topic has degenerated into the usual "Islam is evil and all Muslims want to kill us or force us to live under strict Sharia law' rants from the usual suspects.

Even though the authorities have not, as far as I am aware, stated their religion.

Even though, statistically, they are as, if not more, likely to be Christian.

Even though the authorities have categorically stated that there is absolutely no evidence that this attack was politically or religiously motivated.

Of course, the usual suspects simply dismiss all this as 'lies' and 'covering up the truth!'

They would rather believe the people who, among other obvious rubbish, published as true the absurd claim from an idiot American that Birmingham had been completely taken over and was now 100% Muslim!

Why do these refugees come to Europe rather than Saudi Arabia? Maybe it's because many of them are Christian!

A little bit of research will show that there are many refugees in Saudi, but as most of them are there illegally the Saudi government does not count them as refugees.

Maybe you should take a while and read the Cairo declaration[1]. If you don't feel like reading everything i can help you by telling that you can entirely skip articles 1-23 and only read articles 24 and 25 and then you might have a good idea why Saudi Arabia is such a shithole for christians (refugee or not).

[1] http://www.oic-oci.org/english/article/human.htm

I bet most here saying "what's the big deal if you get the wrong food in Thailand" wouldn't accept that kind of service in their native country.

<snip>

The only thing that is moronic and disgusting is defending the disgusting and indefensible.

I challenge you, or anyone else, to show where I, or anyone else, has done that anywhere in this, or any other, topic.

No one is making any attempt to defend what these men have done.

What I, and others, have tried to do is show that innocent people should not be labelled as murderers and terrorists because of this horrific attack.

No doubt the ignorant and prejudiced find that 'disgusting and indefensible,' but no rational person does.

I have skimmed the thread and a few of the links, so I may have missed something here...... The alleged killer is an Eritrean migrant who was just refused residency. Looking at the facts given, if one was to speculate, the most reasonable conjecture would be that the perp is a disgruntled Christian migrant, since Eritrean Christians outnumber Eritrean Muslims.Eritrea, with a GDP less than what Donald Trump has in cash, and with one of the worst human rights records in the world, is certainly a country that one would expect a person would be glad to never set foot in again.

To assume he is Muslim, even before his nationality was known, and especially after it was revealed he is Eritrean (since statistically he's more likely to be Christian), just shows what the beying hounds are like. They need to find a Muslim to blame.

Aftonbladet did something as rare as unicorns, they printed very early on that they both were christians.

But i'm curious if you are actually saying that the Dublin treaty is something that EU members should adhere to. If not, why not?

Asheron, how long have you lived in Sweden for?

Are you recounting the experiences of yourself, your family, your friends? If so, upsetting though it must have been, not a statistically viable sample; unless you have a very large number of family and friends living in Sweden.

Do you have any reputable, independent sources to substantiate your claims?

I don't doubt that some Muslims in Sweden do use the insults you mention; there are ignorant gits everywhere.

Being dark skinned my wife has been called a 'Paki' by white morons many times over the 15 years she has lived in the UK. At first she replied that she was Thai, only to be called a whore instead! Now she just ignores them.

I was born and lived almost all my life in Sweden. I'm not just recounting what has happened to me/family but what i have read from what others, strangers to me, have said openly.

I would say that Sveriges Radio are pretty "reputable" sources even though they are so far left that they only see red when they look around. Of course, if you don't speak swedish, norwegian or danish you wont understand a word they are saying besides "svennehora" and "rasism". And to show how far left Sveriges radio really are they interview in the end Tobias Hubinette... a VERY well known leftist extremist.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=1650&artikel=5898944

And "Dagens Nyheter" is the largest "liberal" (not the definition of liberal in USA) news paper in Sweden, and "reputable", where they published a very rare debate article from two FP (Folkpartiet, basicly "The liberal party") politicians actually taking up the issue of "svennehora" etc.

http://www.dn.se/debatt/aven-rasism-mot-etniska-svenskar-maste-bekampas/

Just one account from someone i don't know.

http://www.familjeliv.se/forum/thread/59239037-blir-kallad-svennehora-odyl-varenda-dag

*edit*

I'm sorry to hear how your wife is treated, maybe an UK thing? But i can say that generally Sweden is an extremely tolerant nation to live in regardless your skin color. So extreme that it is borderline retarded when it comes to tolerance.... because they are actually tolerating intolerance.

Perhaps as a balance you can provide the stats on anti Muslim attacks / abuse in Sweden with the rise of the right wing and neo Nazi organisations in Sweden. A sample is provided below, I'm sure with your focus on the asylum seeker issue in Sweden you can provide detailed statistical info.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/03/world/in-sweden-the-land-of-the-open-door-anti-muslim-sentiment-finds-a-foothold.html?_r=0

There are a handful semi-active nazis in Sweden. In the third largest city in Sweden jews can't walk outside without being harassed and no it's not the nazis doing the harassment. Jews are fleeing Sweden and jewish children can't play outside on the school ground out of fear from those you so adamantly defend. Your profil says "Australia"... you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Sweden. I wouldn't argue about things in Australia because i know it would be retarded for me to say that things are this and that in Australia without having ever even visited Australia.

And as you have comprehension issues i'll try to explain... just because person X says "group A does this more than group B" doesn't mean that person X is saying all in group A are this or that. But inside your head you think like this which is very obvious from your posting history.

*edit*

And get your facts straigth... that NY times article about an "arson" against a mosque in Eskilstuna was by police ruled out as an accident/not a crime.[1]. And to my knowledge no one has been arrested and charged for the arsons against the mosques in Eslöv and Uppsala... so how do you know that it was nazis?

[1] http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=87&artikel=6116068

Asheron, how long have you lived in Sweden for?

Are you recounting the experiences of yourself, your family, your friends? If so, upsetting though it must have been, not a statistically viable sample; unless you have a very large number of family and friends living in Sweden.

Do you have any reputable, independent sources to substantiate your claims?

I don't doubt that some Muslims in Sweden do use the insults you mention; there are ignorant gits everywhere.

Being dark skinned my wife has been called a 'Paki' by white morons many times over the 15 years she has lived in the UK. At first she replied that she was Thai, only to be called a whore instead! Now she just ignores them.

I was born and lived almost all my life in Sweden. I'm not just recounting what has happened to me/family but what i have read from what others, strangers to me, have said openly.

I would say that Sveriges Radio are pretty "reputable" sources even though they are so far left that they only see red when they look around. Of course, if you don't speak swedish, norwegian or danish you wont understand a word they are saying besides "svennehora" and "rasism". And to show how far left Sveriges radio really are they interview in the end Tobias Hubinette... a VERY well known leftist extremist.

http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=1650&artikel=5898944

And "Dagens Nyheter" is the largest "liberal" (not the definition of liberal in USA) news paper in Sweden, and "reputable", where they published a very rare debate article from two FP (Folkpartiet, basicly "The liberal party") politicians actually taking up the issue of "svennehora" etc.

http://www.dn.se/debatt/aven-rasism-mot-etniska-svenskar-maste-bekampas/

Just one account from someone i don't know.

http://www.familjeliv.se/forum/thread/59239037-blir-kallad-svennehora-odyl-varenda-dag

*edit*

I'm sorry to hear how your wife is treated, maybe an UK thing? But i can say that generally Sweden is an extremely tolerant nation to live in regardless your skin color. So extreme that it is borderline retarded when it comes to tolerance.... because they are actually tolerating intolerance.