Asheron

So dislike of corruption and bad road manners is "hatred"?

Are you saying there is no corruption or bad road manners in the west? Are you stupid?

No but you are as it seems as you seem to think the thai level of corruption is the same in the west. Take off your rose-tinted glasses and smell the shit in Thailand, your delusions of Thailand is at an alarming level.

As I said, the West ( in my case the UK) are just better at hiding the corruption than the Thais, so it looks like the Thais are more corrupt, which I think is nonsense.

Of course there is corruption in "the west", no one is denying it. But try bribing a cop at a random stop in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, Denmark or any other civilized western nation and see what happens.

So dislike of corruption and bad road manners is "hatred"?

No, it's the incessant kvetch about it in ways that suggest that these things are uniquely Thai and implicitly or explicitly suggesting "this sort of thing" doesn't go on in Farang Land.

The problem is that the complainers seem to "see" everything here as being wrong or bad, while at the same time remaining totally blind to the very same problems that exist everywhere else in the world, including the country from which they fled.

This is a thai forum with talk about Thailand... are you saying that we should talk about the shitty traffic in Morocco? Because i have experienced it and i as an atheist thank Buddha, God, Thor, Odin and Vishnu that i live to tell about it.

So dislike of corruption and bad road manners is "hatred"?

Are you saying there is no corruption or bad road manners in the west? Are you stupid?

No but you are as it seems as you seem to think the thai level of corruption is the same in the west. Take off your rose-tinted glasses and smell the shit in Thailand, your delusions of Thailand is at an alarming level.

You think expats are bad? Sheesh, you should meet my wife.

Her favorite term is "MOMS" = Monkeys on Motorbikes.

Hates the Junta.

Hates yellow shirts.

Thinks Thaksin is a lying crook.

Thinks all silver mini van drivers are high on yabba and M-150, and should all be banned from driving for life.

Thinks all big bus drivers have the IQ of a buffalo.

Thinks "emotional maturity" of Thai men stops at the age of 10 (except for her son, of course).

Thinks the majority of falang men just come here for sex (except for me, of course)

Thinks someone should drop about 50 bombs each on Phuket and Pattaya.

Thinks every Thai with the rank of General (or equivalent), both Police and Military, should be rounded up, have all their assets seized, and then put in prison for life.

Hates Chinese with a passion (despite the fact that she's half Chinese herself.)

Thinks most Thai in Bangkok live in a fantasy world and don't have a clue as to what life is all about.

And those are just SOME of her "pet peeves".

I think your wife is one of the few thai people that has actually thought about things for a second or two

So dislike of corruption and bad road manners is "hatred"?

Answered that as well.

You don't use imagery to teach adjectives such as this in any language. You use synonyms or antonyms to explain it in a mother tongue and use that understanding to teach it in a second language. Any educator would know that.

You don't use bigoted judgements based on racist attitudes to skin colour.

Any colour.

It's nothing but intolerance if you judge an individual by colour, faith, nationality, life style choices or gender.

But what if it wasn't meant as a racist thing? Because we all know (right?) that thai people view dark skin as highly undesirable and to them it is ugly. And in the west many think that a sun tan is very nice looking and desirable and subconsciously many think that it's a sign of wealth and prosperity.

Deliberate or not it was racist.

Deliberate or not it reinforces prejudices based on colour.

Deliberate or not it was crass, stupid and ignorant.

Also utterly useless as a teaching tool. Perfect for teaching bigotry but not accurate and intelligent use of language.

But then prejudice rarely is intelligent.

Surely "something" can only be racist if it was deliberate? Because if not... that's a quick-stepped march into the "thought crime" area of 1984.

@Asheron

You asked me exactly the same question earlier in this thread and I made very clear to you what I think about those who spread hatred through their use of bigotry and intolerance.

You want to see it again then read all the posts on this thread.

Didn't realize it was you but i rather not go through 23 pages to find your answer...

But lets assume you said it was bigotry to have a "white face" as ugly... the question, atleast for me, rises "which kind of color should the face then had?".

Answered that as well.

You don't use imagery to teach adjectives such as this in any language. You use synonyms or antonyms to explain it in a mother tongue and use that understanding to teach it in a second language. Any educator would know that.

You don't use bigoted judgements based on racist attitudes to skin colour.

Any colour.

It's nothing but intolerance if you judge an individual by colour, faith, nationality, life style choices or gender.

But what if it wasn't meant as a racist thing? Because we all know (right?) that thai people view dark skin as highly undesirable and to them it is ugly. And in the west many think that a sun tan is very nice looking and desirable and subconsciously many think that it's a sign of wealth and prosperity.

@Asheron

You asked me exactly the same question earlier in this thread and I made very clear to you what I think about those who spread hatred through their use of bigotry and intolerance.

You want to see it again then read all the posts on this thread.

Didn't realize it was you but i rather not go through 23 pages to find your answer...

But lets assume you said it was bigotry to have a "white face" as ugly... the question, atleast for me, rises "which kind of color should the face then had?".

Many of these replies are what I would expect from those coming from ridiculously politically correct countries, where you cant call a spade a spade. One reason I like Thailand is because I can say exactly what my opinion of a certain race is. Thai people speak with their hearts and say dark skin in ugly. Get over it with all the PC crap. Has anyone ever been to Papua New Guinea? I think the people there are ugly. Has anyone ever been to Ukraine? I think the people there are beautiful. Am I a racist? Maybe I have been in Thailand to long or not long enough in a brain-washing European society.

Opposing racism isn't a PC concept, it's the right thing to do.

You are correct but it's the zealousness with which the banner is carried forwards that gets under the skin. I would class racism as acting out the dislike, ie. refusing to employ someone purely because of their ethnicity but not a personal dislike of a race or colour however illogical. I wouldn't want my daughter to marry a black man but i wouldn't ostracize him if the unlikely event took place, i would expect my Thai/British son to marry a Thai woman because he lives here and i would be happy with that. We don't need a PC Gestapo telling us what we SHOULD or MUST feel. I dislike the Muslim culture and i wouldn't mix with Muslims given the choice, that's racist, who cares, not me it's MY CHOICE.

I judge people on who they are and not what they are.

That's not PC, it's the only way to break down the barriers of hate and mistrust that prejudicial, knee jerk stereotypes build up.

I try not to judge people.

However, I treat all people the same however ugly they are.

I've never met a beautiful Aborigine but knew some beautiful Red Indians. This is fact, not racial.

The person who created the vocab chart chose a dark skin colour to represent ugly. That is bigotry.

Would it have been bigotry if it was a face of a white person?

As I have pointed out in an earlier comment the chart or poster can be regarded as racist depending on which side of the fence one sits. But that is based on a personal view and not on facts. To make that poster a racist tool one has to prove that it was done intentionally and that the designer intended to discriminate against African people. Yes, the poster or chart is offensive and it shouldn’t have seen the light of the day; however that doesn’t qualify it to become the benchmark to prove that Thai people are racists in their majority as many of the commentators here suggest.

"To make that poster a racist tool one has to prove that it was done intentionally and that the designer intended to discriminate"

Is it not possible for someone to be a racist or a bigot and be so thoroughly indoctrinated and culturally from birth accepting of it as to not be aware of it or think of their behavior as racist?

And another question: how can you possibly suggest that someone who designs a poster on which a white face is labeled "handsome" and a black face labeled "ugly" isn't depicting discrimination based on color? It would be hard to imagine anything more overtly discriminatory! Clearly, in attempting to explain the English words "handsome" and "ugly", the designer used skin color as the discriminator.

In my experience most racists end up spending a lot of time denying they are racist.

Racism is a product of ignorance and fear........intention to discriminate is often subliminal - only a racist could look at that chart an argue it isn't racist.

I'm sure you are denying that you're a paedophile right? Well, with your logic... well..

Maybe it's time for you to go take that high school diploma (that you admitted not having) and then take a few courses at university. Preferably in the west.

In my experience they do differentiate, when i was fat i was called uan, when i got muscular and dropped the fat i never heard uan again.

But I don't really care what they call me as long as i never become a fat bastard again.

But to think that people like pro bodybuilders is crazy almost nobody (me included) likes those. I admire how far they got.. but not how they look.

From experience I know plenty of Thai girls like muscular and an other group does not. Fact of life we all like different things, same goes for girls.

You do know that muscle weighs more than fat, so you will probably be overweight, I heard my wife refer to one of my fat friends as 'heavy', not 'uan'.

Of course I am overweight.. but that is not bad as long as its muscle.. if your overweight and fat it could be bad to your health. That is why BMI is such a stupid thing for people with some muscles.

I agree with that Robblok, but in my opinion, being overweight whether it's fat or muscle is very unsightly.

What is "overweight" in muscles? Something like 24-25 FFMI?

Well done sticking to your guns mate. I get sick and tired of the abuse foreigners face here. To those that say don't upset Thai people, lose of face etc.... Sometimes Thai people actually respect it when you' re upfront. All this pussy footing around only leads to one thing, getting taken advantage of.

It's because vast majority of men on this planet are beta men.

Showing elite bodybuilders Like Heath, Greene, Coleman or Cutler to thai women and asking if they are fat will give you a "yes" most of the time because they look like they are 8th month pregnant on stage

Now, take a picture of someone like Jon Brownell and they most like will so "no" regarding fat or not. But how can thai women possible know anything about muscles or fitness when about 99,35% of all thai men look like they were just rescued out of Auschwitz and that is the looks of men most thai women like.

I think the OP is trolling or was drunk when posting.

If by the smallest of chances the story is true, then the OP is fortunate that his aggressive act of screaming in The woman's face and at her child didn't turn out really bad for him, if her husband had been nearby he may have had a real problem worthy of starting a new thread about, If I had witnessed him shouting in my wife and child's face ( Which if true would have been a very traumatic experience for both ), he would have had a serious problem, and I'm a Farang, if I wasn't there and she had told me later, I'd have gone to the school the next day and he'd have had a serious problem, with an enraged Thai man/Family, it could have been the last time he would ever shout at anybody again.

Then again, I don't believe a word of the OP.

"oh look Steve how cute that half-negro child is and there his negro father stands watching him play, go ask that negro if you can play with that half-negro child..."

Yeah, i'm sure you would be alright with that your wife used that kind of talk about other people and their kids... right? And would be just as upset if she got a yelling for talking like that... right? Because hey, you are a man of principle... right?!

If you witnessed a Farang shouting in your wife's face then shouting in your child's face you would have done nothing ?

I'm not getting into a pissing contest with an anonymous poster BTW, I will just reaffirm, I don't believe the OP, he's either Trolling or Drunk whilst posting.

Have fun kids.

So it is, according to you, ok to call children for half-negros/luuk-krung?

I think the OP is trolling or was drunk when posting.

If by the smallest of chances the story is true, then the OP is fortunate that his aggressive act of screaming in The woman's face and at her child didn't turn out really bad for him, if her husband had been nearby he may have had a real problem worthy of starting a new thread about, If I had witnessed him shouting in my wife and child's face ( Which if true would have been a very traumatic experience for both ), he would have had a serious problem, and I'm a Farang, if I wasn't there and she had told me later, I'd have gone to the school the next day and he'd have had a serious problem, with an enraged Thai man/Family, it could have been the last time he would ever shout at anybody again.

Then again, I don't believe a word of the OP.

"oh look Steve how cute that half-negro child is and there his negro father stands watching him play, go ask that negro if you can play with that half-negro child..."

Yeah, i'm sure you would be alright with that your wife used that kind of talk about other people and their kids... right? And would be just as upset if she got a yelling for talking like that... right? Because hey, you are a man of principle... right?!

I bet that most (all?) here defending the use of the word farang go apeshit if someone uses the word negro.

If you switched the faces of handsome and ugly around is it racism?

If the thinking is to use of colour to highlight undesirable/ugly characteristics then………….yes.

"Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does the hating. It's just plain wrong.”

― Muhammad Ali

So if you got two white guys, other one is quite tan and the other one is so white that he looks like he has never seen the sun and you think the guy that has never seen the sun is ugly... it's racism? If so, racism against who or what? Because surely you would agree that a tanned buy and non-tanned guy differs quite a lot when it comes to "color" of their skin even though they are both what is generally viewed as "white"?

If you are going to resort to ridiculous arguments and nonsense scenarios them carry on, I won't bother reading them.

Judging someone because they are of a different ethnicity and as such have a different skin colour is racism.

It is bigotry.

It is hatred.

It is wrong.

It is the type of thinking that has led to some of the most horrific actions of the 20th and this century.

Hatred allows people to dehumanise others who may be different in some way [faith/colour/political view/nationality/whatever} and carry out the most appalling atrocities in the name of that hatred.

I was just pointing (kind of) out that using the word "color" for skin as basis what's racism or not is ridiculous.

For some reason it's very common for people, especially in the west, to think that's impossible for black people to be racist against white people. It just doesn't compute in their brain.

But your "ethnicity and different skin color" doesn't explain nations such as Thailand. I know enough thais with almost as white skin as i have and the other way around and they make comments about their darker skinned "sisters and brothers" that many would say is racist but how can it possibly be racism if they both are thai?

I would dare to say that western nations (northern Europe and North America) are way WAY less racist and more tolerant than the rest of the world against "strangers".

If you switched the faces of handsome and ugly around is it racism?

If the thinking is to use of colour to highlight undesirable/ugly characteristics then………….yes.

"Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does the hating. It's just plain wrong.”

― Muhammad Ali

So if you got two white guys, other one is quite tan and the other one is so white that he looks like he has never seen the sun and you think the guy that has never seen the sun is ugly... it's racism? If so, racism against who or what? Because surely you would agree that a tanned buy and non-tanned guy differs quite a lot when it comes to "color" of their skin even though they are both what is generally viewed as "white"?

If you switched the faces of handsome and ugly around is it racism?

That's an interesting question.

Some theorize that racism is prejudice plus power.

So if Thailand's elite is more light skinned and it is, then not based on that theory.

I would say that it's not racist regardless of which face is on ugly.

I agree with you but ponder what kind of comments that would have produced on the forum page.

As one member put it so rightly: But nothing complicated about the message in that chart.

The message is the personal perception and not an official statement permitting anybody to read into the chart whatever they want.

The issue IMO is that "everyone" sees "racism" everywhere all the time nowadays. Just half an hour i read in a "respected" swedish news paper about "tooth racism" in the USA. As in if you don't have perfectly white and straight teeth then you are targetted by racisms... yes... it has gone that far.

If you switched the faces of handsome and ugly around is it racism?

That's an interesting question.

Some theorize that racism is prejudice plus power.

So if Thailand's elite is more light skinned and it is, then not based on that theory.

I would say that it's not racist regardless of which face is on ugly.

If you switched the faces of handsome and ugly around is it racism?

Haven't seen a potato in Ubon Tesco for atleast a month. I don't go everyday but about every other day so i hardly think that the potatoes they had would sell out in a day.

Well, "kiddo"...

If you can't put one and one together without a calculator then i guess you have been living for too long in Thailand.

I'm sure you are a great example to your child.

Numpty.

Atleast i show to my children to stand up for themself. I would be surprised if you even had children and if you have.. well.. maybe the non-existing God(s) have mercy on them.

I agree, many replies here are probably from people without children here. Wish I could be more active here - this holiday is quite fun.

Surely you are not arrogant enough to say that all the billions of people in the world who have faith in God are wrong?

No, i don't care what people believe in. Up to them

My "have mercy" thing was only written like that as i personally don't believe in anything.

Well, "kiddo"...

If you can't put one and one together without a calculator then i guess you have been living for too long in Thailand.

I'm sure you are a great example to your child.

Numpty.

Atleast i show to my children to stand up for themself. I would be surprised if you even had children and if you have.. well.. maybe the non-existing God(s) have mercy on them.

That's pretty funny.

If you think this situation the OP has been jumped all over and treated like a soi dog, then you do not possess the skills to last very long in Thailand.

But you keep telling yourself you the Alpha male and tell us how you would have "sorted it out" big guy.

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Just like i treated the corrupt thai cops who thought they had some kind of right to chat with my minor (9 years) old daughter about where we were going and where we came from etc when they stopped me for a made up traffic violation.

I said to them clearly to f- off, not to talk with my daughter and take this 200 baht and put it where sun does not shine. Guess, what.. they stopped talking with my daughter and that was it.

So.. err... "ha ha ha ha".

That's your best story? Kid, I hate to tell you this, but that story is not worthy. Please try harder.

...you still haven't told us how you would deal with this "carp park guy" that jumped all over the OP and treated him like a soi dog...

Well, "kiddo"...

If you can't put one and one together without a calculator then i guess you have been living for too long in Thailand.