mudcat

Your description describes Roth IRA qualified distributions. Roth IRAs were established contemporaneously with the Thailand-U.S. tax convention so their special character was not addressed in the convention or the the technical explanation. In the model convention from 2006 (https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/131/Treaty-US-Model-TE-2006.pdf) Roth IRA (Section 408A) plans were noted on page 11 and treatment of them was discussed under the technical explanation of Article 17 paragraph 1 on pages 54-55: " However, the State of residence, under subparagraph (b), must exempt from tax any amount of such pensions or other similar remuneration that would be exempt from tax in the Contracting State in which the pension fund is established if the recipient were a resident of that State. Thus, for example, a distribution from a U.S. "Roth IRA" to a resident of the other Contracting State would be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State to the same extent the distribution would be exempt from tax in the United States if it were distributed to a U.S. resident. The same is true with respect to distributions from a traditional IRA to the extent that the distribution represents a return of non-deductible contributions. Similarly, if the distribution were not subject to tax when it was “rolled over” into another U.S. IRA (but not, for example, to a pension fund in the other Contracting State), then the distribution would be exempt from tax in the other Contracting State." I recognize that this treatment of a Roth IRA is not binding, but it would provide support for argument that Roth distributions are not assessible income but rather savings to the extent of their valuation as of December 31, 2023.

Since I received my LTR-WP visa my solution is to leave almost nothing in my single Thai bank account and rely on my direct deposit of Social Security benefit for living expenses. I do make sure that I maintain my balance a bit over my ordinary benefit amount so Social Security can claw back their ounce of flesh (see https://www.usa.gov/social-security-report-a-death). Real assets stay in the U.S. where they are in our joint checking account and my TOD brokerage account with my wife as named as beneficiary (inheritances pass tax free to my dual U.S. Thai national wife - see below). My Roth IRA (or any IRA) requires a spouse to sign paperwork designating how she wishes to inherit - in our case it will be lump sum distribution. Note that a non-U.S. national beneficiary will have a more difficult process including 30% U.S. tax withholding. I direct my pension income into my U.S. checking account where it gets used to pay Visa bills and regular monthly contributions to my brokerage account of which I am sole owner so it can pass to her without taxes. Any inheritance is documented by the brokerage account's beneficiary statement (controlling) and U.S. will (supporting). Transfers to my wife after my death to my wire go by wire and include a 'succinct' memo such as ours Inheritance from Spouse, ***. Tax Exempt under Inheritance Tax Act Section 3.2 and Thai Revenue Code Section 42.10. Inheritances from a spouse are exempt from taxes under the INHERITANCE TAX ACT, B.E. 2558 (2015): Section 3: This Act shall not apply to: (2) an inheritance received from a deceased person by the spouse of the deceased person. Transfer of your inheritances to a Thai bank account. The Roth IRA and Brokerage account you inherit from me and transfer to either of your Bangkok Bank account(s) is also exempt from income tax: Thai Revenue Code Chapter 3, Section 42: The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: (10) Income derived from an inheritance

When I do my FBAR reporting, I report the highest balance in each account during the year. I use the US Treasury exchange rates which are published in January to convert to USD. When I report my Thai bank interest on my tax return, I use the spot exchange rates on the day the interest posts. Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) | Internal Revenue Service For each account you must report on an FBAR, you must keep records with this information: Name on the account, Account number, Name and address of the foreign bank, Type of account, and Maximum value during the year. It is easy to get crossways with the different U.S. government reporting of foreign assets. FATCA dates back to 2014 - FBAR is reported on FinCEN 114 which is filed with the Treasury and not with your taxes (blank atta. As JohnnyBD posted, the threshold is pretty low aggregate balance >$10,000 at any point during the year, so many if not most of us will need to file at some point during our stay here. I have filled out templates for my wife and myself that we complete and file at the same time as we file our taxes. There is a program to 'get right with the IRS' called streamlined filing which requires filing back FinCEN 114 forms and amended f1040s. I went through that process and it was not fun, but doable on your own if you have good records. The other requirement is to disclose on overseas assets anywhere on f8938 which is filed along with your taxes. The thresholds are complicated but most of us will not be required to file. https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/do-i-need-to-file-form-8938-statement-of-specified-foreign-financial-assets If your overseas financial assets are getting up into the 100s of thousand USD I suggest that you also take a look at the instructions https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8938.pdf. NOTE "If you do not have to file an income tax return for the tax year, you do not need to file Form 8938, even if the value of your specified foreign assets is more than the appropriate reporting threshold." We will not need to file a f8938 as most of our assets remain in the U.S., and my U.S. citizen wife will not need to file after I die when she is living on SSA survivor benefits and Thai bank account interest, but the transition year after she inherits will included in the final tax return.

U.S. citizens still have representation should they choose to vote. I continue to vote from my last U.S. voter roll district and will continue to do so. I do understand that U.S. permanent residents also are subject to U.S. taxation without any voting rights, so they are in the same position as most expats here.

This can be an issue if the 'brokerage' account is actually a retirement account (401K, IRA 403B), and maybe even Roth IRA. https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-distributions-to-foreign-persons-require-withholding

Two years with our Veloz next month. The jump seats (6th and 7th passengers get used once a month or so). Appreciate the isofix latching for up to two child car seats and the side airbags for rear seat passengers. Dislike the aerodynamics that collect dust on the rear window up here in the northeast, may not be an issue where you live. The Veloz replaced a Chevrolet Spin which was orphaned by Chevrolet leaving the SE Asia markets. When I received my LTR visa my ThB 800k retirement visa account We looked at other alternatives and settled on the Veloz. Did not consider any Chinese EVs, but if we were looking today we would consider a Yaris Cross HEV.

We will visit with the same manager we spoke with and worked through our plan with last summer using the same statements and TRD documents in Thai and English.

Both my wife and myself needed to close out our JPMorgan 'AutoInvest' accounts at the end of 2023 as JPMorgan was not continuing the product. Everything went into our joint checking accounts at Chase and on to our individual brokerage accounts so we have a clear pre-2024 savings trail. We will be each wiring the exact pre-2024 balances (>$25,000) to Thailand once our T-Bills matures in early December. On the wire form's 'Message to Recipient Line' we will add: "Pre-2024 Savings Remittance Exempt per TRD No. P.162/2023" Once the wires are in and dealt with we will visit our local TRD provincial office with all of our documentation to close the loop we started when we visited them late last summer. This will clear up some remittance and inheritance complications for my wife as we will consolidate the balances in the two brokerage accounts into a single account under my name where she is the primary beneficiary.

As far as I know Thailand does not recognize trusts but there is a provision called "controller of property" in our wills my wife have used to protect what we would leave to our grand daughter. As we do not trust her parents or our in-laws with a chunk of money we named a cousin who successfully got his child through university and launched

Actually it it is a ten-year visa and it is stamped as such. The first permission to stay stamped for five-years and is what gets extended and then stamped to match the visa. No cost but a visit to BOI One Stop Service Center to have it stamped.

I have not had any contact with BOI about accepting a Roth IRA balance for the $100,000 substitute for a "Bank" balance in lieu of a foreign or Thai health insurance policy and do not plan on raising the issue with them until my recertification in three-years. I continue to maintain a Thai health insurance policy as fallback, but given the nature of Thai insurance companies, the 25% discount for a 40K ThB deductible and a 3-year no claim discount keep the policy affordable (to me) so it can serve as a major medical policy. As mentioned before, my Roth statements have a three-year look back chart on the first page and every December statement shows there have been no distributions or contributions in that calendar year under "Retirement Contribution and Distribution Summary" or something similar demonstrating that increases and decreases in the balance are the result of market movement and not me drawing down my balance, and as a retiree, I cannot contribute to it, so it is a lump of money that earns returns (or absorbs losses) under my brokerages 'private client' advisor scheme. I am fortunate in that between my Social Security benefit (direct deposited here) and my government pension paid into my U.S. checking account, I have not needed to withdraw from my Roth IRA The Roth serves as the principal asset I will be leaving to my wife if I pre-decease her or split between two educational institutions (a daycare center I taught at in the 1970s and the graduate school I attended in the 1990s) should she pre-decease me.

My plan if things go south with my too big to fail bank because I live here is move everything over to the State Department Federal Credit Union https://www.sdfcu.org/. One needs to become a member of an affiliate organization but it seems a better option than cashing out retirement accounts.

If you have an air conditioner try the fan only at lowest setting.

I would like to add some clarification to the discussion about Social Security benefits for Thai spouses who are US citizens or who lived in the US for a minimum of five years as a permanet resident. Thai (and all) spouses collect spousal benefits first based on their US work (if any) and can collect an additional beneft as a spouse only if their spouse has already filed for benefits. Spousal benefis are a maximum of 50% of your Full Retirement Age benefit and can be applied for beginning at 62 years old that subject to a reduction of as much as 30% for claiming before your spouse's full retirement age (for most today 67 years old). It is important to apply for this benefit as soon as eligible as it establishes your spouses eligibilty and payment details while you are around to assist her in the application, as the spouse benefit converts to the higher survivor benefit automaticaaly when you die. The survivor benefit is a much more important, as it is designed to replace the portion of the family income that came from your Social Security benefit. Your spouse can claim beginning at 60 years old, again taking a reduction for claiming prior to their full retirement age, and is capped at your benefit as reduced by your early rerirement if you took it (RIB-Lim or widow's limit) Your children can claim a smaller but still significant benefit up until 16 years old so long as you filed with embassy or their US citizenship. Both your spouse's spousal benefit and her (but not your children'' benetits) are compromised if your spouse re-marries before she turns sixty - the spouse benefit disappears but her survivor beneft can be re-established if tha marriag ends. I have cautioned my wife that even a village my put her benefits at risk. To ease the way forward for my wife I have pre-filled out the spouse, survivor, and death benefit forms so she has the required information and documents at hand during the telephone application with the Federal Benefits Unit attached the embassy in Manila. I update and we review these forms fogether every year and have draft emails to the Bangkok embassy and the Manila FBU to send after I die.

Downoad the form SSA-1199-OP107 using a google search to get a current form.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section42 Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: 13) Compensation against wrongful acts, amount derived from insurance or from funeral assistance scheme.

https://www.ssa.gov/international/AlienTax.html This applies only to non-resident aliens, not dual nationals. Makes me glad I insisted that wife get her U.S. citizenship before moving here. Similar 30% withholding applies to retirement account distributions as taxes are generally due on withdrawals: https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/plan-distributions-to-foreign-persons-require-withholding

I am not sure and my browsing history does not real a source. I was looking for tm61 not locked to Bangkok at the time.

Note the URL - https://tm47.immigration.go.th/tm95/#/login Of course it is down for system maintenance. The ordinary tm.47 website for reporting is up and running: https://tm47.immigration.go.th/tm47/#/login

Doing the extra step of a bank draft for return postage was a bother but understand the separation of passport fee and mailing fees that differ country to country. I have given up on Thai experts and professionals, so I just use https://epassportphoto.com/ The one issue I had is finding the immigration photo sizes - look under Greece and Japan. My wife and I applied for our new US passports at the same time (me to get my full LTR 10-years and hers to coordinate with her first ten-year Thai passport) What we got back were passport numbers separated by one e.g. mine ending in 16 and hers in 18, nut fortunately the same issue and expire dates.

Or your tax transcript which truncates your name, address, and Social Security number along with a key where your SSA benefit and pension are shown as the PDF is locked.

After the immediately above back and forth I reached out to the BOI to see if I could get some clarification - you situation may be different so I would recommend that you address BOI directly and copy their response to you here for everyone's benefit. ส่ง: 8 พฤษภาคม 2567 9:39:07 ถึง: ltr(at)boi.go.th ชื่อเรื่อง: Clarification on Royal Decree's Section 5 treatment of Pension and Social Security Good morning. I hold LTR-WP Visa xxx/65. There is a discussion in the LTR topic on AseanNow forum about the treatment of current year 'income' under the Royal Decree that could use a clarifying statement from the BOI rather than the speculations from some of the more excitable participants in the discussion. Section 5 Income tax under Part 2 of Chapter 3 in Title 2 of the Revenue Code shall be exempted for a foreigner categorised as Wealthy Global Citizen, Wealthy Pensioner, or Work-from-Thailand Professional who is granted a Long-Term Resident Visa under immigration law for assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad, and brought into Thailand. A plain reading of Section 5 leaves current year income from employment, business, or property situated abroad subject to Thailand's Personal Income Tax when remitted. However, it is difficult to understand whether the term 'property' in this section includes savings and investments (particularly private retirement plans or IRAs), Social Security, or government private pensions as these were 'earned' in prior years (in many cases, many years prior) but are 'paid' in the current year. Can you work with the Revenue Department to provide further guidance beyond their Notification No. 427 of August 2022 on the tax status of prior year earnings remitted in the current year. -- Their response re savings and investments (particularly private retirement plans or IRAs), Social Security, or government private pensions as these were 'earned' in prior years (in many cases, many years prior) but are 'paid' in the current year Dear Stephen, Greetings from the LTR Visa Unit. To clarify the overseas tax exemption under the three mentioned categories, you will begin to benefit the moment you hold the LTR Visa. For instance, if you obtain the LTR Visa on January 1, 2024, and transfer income on January 5, 2024, that income will be exempt from tax. However, income transferred into Thailand before January 1, 2024, or before officially obtaining the LTR Visa will still be subject to regular taxation. This tax exemption only applies to income transferred into Thailand. Savings that are already in Thailand and properties are not included, nor are personal effects transferred into Thailand, as these are considered properties rather than income or cash transferred from overseas banks into Thai banks. Kind regards, LTR Visa Unit

I need to do nothing as I have a LTR-WP visa and my income comes from a government pension and Social Security. My investment assets are mostly in my Roth IRA which I do not touch. The reason Roth IRAs aren't discussed in the US-Thai tax convention is they coincidentally both took affect in January 1998. While not applicable for qualified withdrawals (>59 1/2), the 'ordering' the IRS uses for non-qualified withdrawals are contributions, conversions, and only lastly earnings, with contributions always exempt and conversions <5 years taking a 10% penalty and earnings fully taxable should you choose to draw it down or close the account

I have always maintained that the reading material that Thai people are most interested in are menus.

As we all know, Thai Personal Income Tax is self-reporting, so it is up to you and your tax advisor to determine where pensions are taxed. My reading is that dual-nationals pay taxes on pensions received in the country of residence, you believe that sub-paragraph b stating that dual-nationals pay tax in state of residence does not apply to dual-nationals. For me this is academic as my wife is not be eligible for part of my government pension, so I defer to your interpretation for your spouse's tax liability.