richard_smith237

Agreed.... But, in more 'backward' area's of Thailand its still the norm. I've walked into loads of shops with my shoes on then... - I've either noticed and apologised and taken off my shoes and left them by the door. - I've either noticed and apologised and been told not to worry about it. - Its been pointed out and I've apologised and taken off my shoes (no biggie). BUT... IF I walk into any shop and the shop assistant starts getting rude with me and yelling... I'm going to tall them to flook awf and walk out. In area's of high tourist footfall there is a 'familiarity breeds contempt' situation whereby many Thai's are fed up and perpetually angry at 'rude foreigners' so their skin is very thin and they get unjustly upset very quickly... This 'thin skinned' reaction is not uncommon in area's of very high tourist footfall. ----------- I recall looking at an item in a Thai shop (in Samui) and asking how much it was. Thank you... was my response. Then the shop assistant got angry and started telling me I'm a bad farang if I don't want to buy... she got agitated so I ignored her and walked out... no negotiation, no conversation - Just an agitated rude person nothing good at all was going to come of any further interaction.

Are we getting to the stage where any altercation or negative interaction between a foreigner and a Thai is going to lead to an exaggerated accusation and subsequent social media which-hunt ??? There is clearly CCTV photographs... So why is there no video with the story ? Whenever there is 'hard unequivocal proof' of an incident (video) we usually see it..... ... So... is this 'kick made up' ?? where is the proof ?? ---- What really happened. - Russian walks into shop - Thai woman rudely shouts at her to get out she's not welcome - Russian woman yells abuse back - Thai woman doesn't like this an escalates Thai woman's contacts the police and social media playing the victim. Again - where is the video ??

Thailand is not one of those countries. Agreed... and 125cc is not a limit either... the limits on two wheeled endorsements is usually more specific but related to mopeds and scooters that have very low power (equivalent to a 50cc moped etc). Whether the NZ had a license or not is irrelevant, they didn't stop when the police told them to... Either because... a) they ignored the request to pull over. b) they didn't see the request to pull over.

Why on earth would they think that? IMO they are just stupid thugs that thought they could do what they liked, and thought wrong. If the NZ Guys have burned through a Police Check point and a policeman gives chase... If that Policeman becomes crazed and angry and fires at them (twice), then they are going to believe their life is in grave danger. Running was the stupid thing to do. Grabbing for the gun may have saved their lives. The video would appear to show that their (NZ Guys) sole intention is 'securing the gun'... They are not hitting or beating the Police officer, the NZ guy has him a hold and is grappling for the gun which is then handed to the 2nd NZ Guy who then appears to make the gun safe (and doesn't point it at anyone). IMO: The video shows two NZ Guys subduing a police officer who may well have shot them.... Clearly thats a very wrong thing do to in the eyes of the law, but have the NZ guys just saved their own lives ? Sometimes a sitation may require extreme action, was this one of those situations ? Yes, they should have stopped... the actions of the NZ guys at that point was stupid. But, once the situation had escalated was securing the gun the right course of action ? it may well have been.

Yes... the message was very clear... The message is that Thai's will not tolerate racism and bigotry from other Thai's... Its strange that your take away from this even was to cement the idea that Thailand has always been Foreigner, when you present an example of Thai's standing up against a single racist Thai.

The NZ license must specify that it is good for motorcycles and be accompanied by the IDP Sec 42 Motor Vehicle Act In case of a driver who is an alien temporarily permitted to reside in the Kingdom under the law on immigration may possess a driving license under section 42 bis while driving in the Kingdom. In this case there shall be accompanied such driving license with the document prescribed in the existing Convention or Agreement between Thai Government and the Government of such country for producing immediately to the competent official45. Does the NZ drivers license have an enforcement for Motorcycles ???... ... If not, then the guys did not have the correct license and would have been fined for that... Which is very common in Thailand and probably the very reason the BiB wanted to stop the tourists ? (as they know most tourists wont have the correct license and thus, its a money spinner). Thats no excuse for the NZ guys to flee of course... But.. did they flee ??? Did they know the Policemen wanted to pull them over ? How clear were the instructions from the BiB to pull over / stop ? Or... Did the NZ Guys see the instruction to stop and just thought eff that, I'm not stopping for this shakedown ?

You seem to conveniently believe anything written in the media as fact. Did the NZ Guys steel the police officers phone then try to delete photos ? OR... Did NZ Guy2 pick up the phone which had dropped to the floor during the 'tussle for the gun' and then held on to it to later return ? What IF the NZ Guys thought their life is in danger ???.. Better to be in serious trouble than dead, no ?

Which is a typical and stupid generalised knee-jerk reaction IMO. What exactly is enhanced screening ???... The phrase means nothing... How are Immigration officers going to Screen us in any 'enhanced manner' more than they do so already ? What more can immigration officers check for when we enter ? Fair enough... I hope the BiB target all criminals, not just those committed by foreigners. I hope this doesn't mean a free-for-all for a freshly empowered police force... Are we are going to be subject to pi$$ing on the side of the street when taking a walk down Sukhumvit road ?

What part of disoberying a cop you do not get? What part of dumbed down over simplification of an issue to the point of naïve ignorance are you trying to prove ??? - seemingly all of it. Question for you: Do you believe 100% of every part of a Coconuts or Thaiger article ??... other articles ? Do you believe the more the same story is perpetuated the greater the probability of it being correct ? We only have the BiB's story that the two blew through the Police stop... there is plenty of scope for altenative possibiliites. i.e. The Two NZ guys rode past the police and did not see or identify a signal to stop. The Policeman gives chase The Two NZ riding quickly didn't realise the were being chased. The Policeman catches the NZ guys, heightened adrenaline, angry, pulls his gun and accidentally fires (or deliberately). The NZ guys have no idea why this Policeman is flipping out but they know they are in danger. The NZ guys stop and the Policeman is furious, the one of the NZ guys suspects he is in grave danger as the BiB has gun in hand. The NZ makes a grab for gun and subdues the Policeman. Immediate threat to wellbeing over, the NZ guys allow further police at the scene to take over when they arrive. It is later found the NZ guys have no license. NZ guys knowing how much trouble they are in attempt to bribe their way out of it. BiB don't care, massive loss of face for disarming a police officer.. People will of course say this is a made up story and it is made up... BUT after decades of being here and seeing how the Police behave (and Thai men in General) it is perfectly believable that dumb mistakes led to grave escalation but the story we see in the media is whitewashed and heavily bias.

All hypothetical situation of which there is zero proof that happened in this case but still you keep pushing the agenda that something like this happened. Your silly also unfounded remark that I don't have the balls to stand up to a cop, proofs you live in a phantasy world. A close friend has been in an extremely difficult situation: He was picking his Wife up from an Bangkok Hotel (5*), she is a business lady (with a very well known international brand, I assume her salary is somewhere in the region of 300,000 baht per month... (I write this to point out her position in the Thai pecking order which may be relevant to events). Mate met his wife at the hotel, valet parked the car, they decided to walk 200m to a neighbouring hotel for a coffee (or lunch). While walking a (lone) Thai Policemen stopped the couple and was quite rude in his tone, demanded to know what they were doing where they were going. My Friend's Wife didn't hold back and told him it was none of his business. The Policeman slapped my mates wife across the face (a full on slap). My Friend (quite a large lad) was a split second from knocking out the Police officer but managed to control himself. I'm not sure many of us would have that level of self control after our wife is attacked like that. The point of this story is to highlight that the BiB are far from the consummate professionals that the media is painting them to be in this story and the Policeman may be responsible for the trigger which led to an escalation of events (to the gun tussle).

These facts are enough to convict them for assaulting a police man, stealing his weapon and illegal firearm possession. All the made-up stories to try to shift blame won't change that. To me all these feeble excuses are quite pathetic. IMO - they are not 'facts' the video is evidence not fact as it is still open to interpretation as the video does not show the whole event. The only fact we have is that one male NZ Guy1 subdued and disarmed a Thai Policeman, while another NZ Guy2 stood by and took the disarmed gun from NZ Guy1. These are not feeble excuses to exonerate the NZ guys - the comments made by myself (and a few others) are to highlight that the story we are getting through Thai and social media may be very one sided and there may well be more to this story than some are blindly and naïvely buying into just because its in print somewhere.

While I disagree with this possibility, its still a possibility - the photo shows numerous possibilities. As you mention - the 2nd NZ guy could be ensuring the weapon was 'ready' rather than ensuring it was 'safe'.... The picture speaks a thousand words is incorrect - the saying should be, a picture can be highlighy misleading. IMO: The picture and video shows the NZ Guy 1 subdue and disarm the BiB them hand NZ Guy 2 the gun. At no point does NZ Guy 2 point the gun at the Policeman. At no point do any of the NZ guys hit or strike the policeman. - IMO this implies the Immediate goal of the NZ guys was to subdue the Policeman rather than attack him.

Would he ?? He wouldn't have been able to if the NZ guys were quick enough to react. It was reported that shot was fired in the tussle for the gun... But... - Was the shot fired by the Policeman in anger which triggered the tussle for the gun, and the story is whitewashing those actions ?.... OR - Are the reports true and the NZ guys attacked the Policeman and tried to steel his gun at which time it went off ? Who knows.... the Policeman was clearly poorly trained. It is obvious if we are going to take the media reports as 100% fact..... You have failed to comprehend my point - I don't think the reports we are reading are factually correct (reports such as this rarely are). Your position and opinion is quite clear though: You don't want to think any more deeply about this issue, its easier to take the media reports as fact and 'hang em high'.... ... Do you really believe the story in the media is factually correct ? We have a long history of police lies and corruption in Thailand - it would not surprise me at all that spin has been applied to make the NZ actions of the NZ to appear a lot more severe and paint the BiB as a victim, its quite possible the NZ guys have just saved there own lives, unfortunately potentially at great expense to their freedom. There is still no public statement from them: Additionally so, I'd only believe a statement from them once they were outside of Thailand.

More significant than farangs evading a traffic stop? Since when does a farang, evading a traffic stop and participating in the assault of a Thai cop have the right to make the cop's weapon "safe"? There's a lot of jumping around there NanLeaw... Firstly, no action of another gives anyone any rights... What I and a couple of others are suggesting is that there is more to the story than we are being fed... This issue is clearly multifaceted: - There is no right for anyone to evade the stop. - There is no right for the NZ guys to exacerbate any potential issues by fleeing. BUT there are a lot of unanswered questions as to how the situation escalated.... we're not sure of events, the reports are contradictory and in parts somewhat questionable. - Did the NZ guys attack the Police officer to an attempt to avoid arrest after fleeing ??... Or - Were the NZ guys fighting for their lives (or they thought they were) after the Policeman drew his weapon in anger ??

Gaslighting again - I'm not segregating humans.... Examples from other areas where the police have from a different policing culture, different training, different degree of accountability etc means the hypothetical parallel you draw with US police is rather daft.

Or are they privileged, according to me ???...... You're gaslighting, but I'll play... The two NZ guys are clearly pi!!ocks for not stopping - that much is obvious As far as the photo is connected - that only shows one NZ Guy subduing the police officer and the other making the weapon safe, as to why he felt the need to do that is the part of this issue which IMO is of greatest significance... - was he (NZ guy) defending himself and subdued an angry officer he thought was going to kill him ? (better to be in trouble than dead).... Or, - is the NZ guy a complete nut-case and attacked the Police Officer ?

Where do you conceal the cameras in bathrooms ???

My understanding (which could be wrong) is that the law is still on the books. However considering how many new cars have this as a standard feature you would be very unlucky to fall foul of it if still the case. I don't think it was ever a law... it was just one of those things the corrupt BiB used to pull people up on... Its the same as motorcycles only being allowed in the left lane... BiB realised it could be a money spinner... Stop ppl and if they don't argue enough they'll get a fine. Junior BiB learned from their seniors, some probably believed this 'passed down' law was actually a real law such is the low standard of training in the Police force here. Luckily - a lot of this stupidity has disappeared in the last 20 years.

Yep.. I agree with you... which is why I suspect we're not getting the true story... ... The BiB have fed the media their line and the media are going with that story... Do I believe the story the media are giving us is accurate ? Nope.. I don't.... there is some saving face going on along with bias reporting IMO. I could be wrong of course and events are as reported - but there still seems too much oddity with scenario as it has currently been painted.

You don't know that... (some one shot - that was reported). You only know what you have read in the media which has been fed information from one side of this only. Have you read anywhere of any statement made by the NZ men ?... we have on side of the story. Erm... we're not in the US - pointless comment. I expect nothing.. But I am cynical that the information provided to the media paints the Policeman as the victim... maybe he was, or maybe we are not getting the full story and people like you are lapping up exactly what the media feeds you because you are naive and gullible. I doubt its going to happen, but I'd like to see a statement from the NZ guys - see what their input is to all this.

There are plenty of news reports of rogue police officers and military officers pulling guns on people... Here's one example from todays news.... Military officers pulls a gun during a road rage incident. https://aseannow.com/topic/1322594-thai-military-officer’s-road-rage-prompts-armed-forces-investigation/ The reality is those in positions to carry weapons also carry the same degree of emotional maturity as many other Thai men we criticise on a daily basis on this forum - its not at all unrealistic to picture the Police Officer pulling the gun on the two NZ guys because he was so angry they didn't stop. IF you think the Police here are a measure of professional responsibility then the only comment left for you is.. when are you planning your first visit.

I think thats a 'familiarity breeds contempt' type of thing... But that only seems to exist in the area's of very high tourist footfall, specifically Patong. Tourist's who can be rude and impolite. Thai's who can be rude and impolite....

Patong is not Phuket - its a bit of a cesspit but serves its purpose as a 'hedonistic party are'. Phuket town itself is quite pleasant. Rawai has a nice little buzz. Nai Harn is fantastic beach. Laguana area and Bang Tao are nice residential area's. Mai Khao has some excellent resorts for a weekend R&R getaway. Kata / Karen - very touristy and not unpleasant Kamala - an ok area, plenty or residential expats there but not the same vibe as Rawai IMO. Phuket has a lot going for it - its not my favourite place, but the island is 50km long and it takes 1.5 hours to drive from north to south, So tarring the whole Island and all communities on it is perhaps not the greatest show of critical thought.

Erm.... no offence intended to your significant other, however, I don't think Mrs Bob Smith is a reliable measure of the character of a place, it would appear that she tends not to make the best of choices.

A lot of it is your misunderstanding of Phuket. Phuket attracts Thai's from all over Thailand who'll work in various facets of industry related to tourism... They are there for the money, not because they are part of the community. It is true (IMO) that in the area's of high tourist footfall the Thai's on Phuket seem to be less polite and perhaps more surly than Thai's elsewhere. IMO - this is due to them not being in their own community. Also, they are expose to tourists all year round. Sometimes the tourists are not polite, and when the Thai's are less polite the tourists are also less polite, and vice versa. A stigma develops. Thai's themselves will go to Phuket and identify that the Thai's there are not as 'friendly' as Thai's in other area's of Thailand. I think its just the facet of being in an area of such highly concentrated tourist footfall in combination with the issue that familiarity breeds contempt.