Thakkar

Vacuum, or Broom?

I put this vexing query to Mrs T who declared with a finality verging on the Word of God:

"Vacuum cleaners are for wimps; REAL women use brooms. Now get away from that computer and go sweep the bedrooms."

Curse you, OP (waves fist in air); why couldn't you have left me alone?

(Trudges upstairs, broom in hand)

Hope that the project brings some jobs, that's always welcome, maybe even a few roles for farang extras ?

The som-tam lady says, they plan a remake called 'The Bridge on the River Ping', or possibly 'Air Lanna' about a CIA-owned airline, can any TV-members suggest some other locally-based films which they might wish to make ?

ThaiVisa: The Movie

Synopsis: In historical and, ahem, foggy Chiangmai, there lived a mysterious, irascible yet Yoda-like senior citizen. He was an expat of good standing who persuaded others by the sheer power of his grouchiness and the fact that he's 'been around' longer than the "Happy New Year" sign at Somchai's bear and pool hall.

One day, a precocious young man gets off the bus at Arcade (cue music from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly), lights a cigarette and looks around.

"Wet behind the ears, he is," declares Yoda. No one dares challenge this premature assessment.

Over the next week the young man adapts to his new surroundings, even eating sticky rice dipped in namprik and an assortment of fried bugs with unmitigated relish. Yoda is not impressed and brushes off this display of localization with the brilliant argument: "humph!"

Meanwhile, the Burger Brigade with their cheerful leader, UG did their bit to promote Western civilization in this fair city by highlighting the availability of English Books by Grisham and greasy food by Mike. Their efforts were well appreciated by the long-suffering and self-deprived expat community.

The young man however was aghast.

"I did not fly six thousand miles to eat at McDonald's," he stated.

"With that I agree," said Yoda. Thus began an unlikely friendship full of humor and adventure.

(The studio is mulling a sequel to be called "Thaivisa: The Movie, The Sequel")

Today, at Carfour seating area, I was reading a chapter on meteorology from Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything, where he describes how our carbon emissions could soon reach a tipping point leading to the destruction of much plant life. But not to worry, Bryson said cheerily, our earth is resilient and would recover — in a mere sixty thousand years. As I read this, I heard the following blurb from the store PA system:

Chripy female voice with an American international school accent:

"Regardless of global warming, you can stay cool with our special price on air conditioners! Come visit the cool air fair".

Want to do something constructive? Lots of different sorts of things can be done. Here are a few ideas and contacts to get you started:

1. Report fires when you see them. (This will usually require learning enough Thai to do it and knowing how to read a map or describe a location, but English speakers are normally available during office hours). The numbers are: 199 or 053409345.

2. Talk to neighbors about the problem, expressing concern for good health and showing alternatives. Excellent leaflets are available available from the Urban Studies Section of the Social Research Institute, Chiang Mai University.

3. Follow recycling techniques. Promote regular garbage pickup, which is not yet consistently available outside of Chiang Mai City. Contact scavengers regarding recyclable material which is profitable. (Quite a lot is.) There is also promotional material at the Social Research Institute with contact information for entrepreneurial firms who are manufacturing products from recycled materials:

Urban Studies Section

Social Research Instititute

Chiang Mai University

053.94.2564

www.sri.cmu.ac.th

Email: [email protected]

This office is located on the right-hand side of the road which is the first major left-hand turn through the CMU entrance on the Canal Road. There is a sign about 150M down the road on the right. Park and go to the 2d floor office.

4. Be persistent in writing letters to officials at province level, especially the governor and the deputy governor, and contacting national as well as local news media. Don't forget to contact TAT where some tourism officials seem to be in denial about pollution. There is a TAT official in Chiang Mai. Persistently ask municipal and police officials why they don't enforce existing pollution laws. Join and support the efforts of the UDIF (Urban Development Institute Foundation). The web site is www.udif.or.th. Email is [email protected]. Phone: 053.27.4817. Visit UDIF most any Saturday. It is located in the very large building directly west of and across the road of the Governor's residence on the SW corner of Taepae Bridge. Lots of parking off Taepae Road.

Thanks, Mapguy, for giving everyone something to do besides moan on TV — at least some of us can now go moan to the right people. It's nice to not feel completely useless.

I too get upset when dogs bark, but only if they're mine as I don't wish to disturb my neighbors. When other people's dogs bark (and they do), I'm not bothered at all.

If the Television is on and the National Anthem is playing, one of my dogs unfailingly lets out a nails-on-blackboard howl for the duration. I hastily mute the TV... unless, on occasion, some neighbors drop by at the designated time and request to behold this patriotic display.

Fortunately this display is prompted only by the Anthem; as soon as I mute the TV, she clams up and looks around to see where the band went.

I think Thakkar has a very valid point about acceptance... If you are minority and wish to fit in with the majority you need to adapt.. This doesn't mean that you stop being what you are just that you need to compromise to establish a relationship.. Often once this relationship is established you can reveal more of 'yourself' without fear of a backlash..

Thakkar's example of being an Indian man in a majority Chinese city/state is the perfect example of this..

Predudice is often a product of fear of ignorance.. By highlighting your differance you are more likely to be alienated.. But by playing down your differances and and highlighting your similarities you are far more likely to be accepted..

We have all seen people of immigrant ( of whatever colour/race) stock who have amalgamated into their adopted culture do well.. Witness the black/Asian/Indian news readers on the BBC or the black sporting stars.. Not to mention the new President.. There are Muslims in the House of Lords and People of African origin representing the UK in the Olympics... Why because they did their best to adopt the moors and morals of their new home.... They didn't sell out or relinquish their own culture but just adapted to their new situation.. For their benefit.. The rest who wish to behave exactly as they did before often fall by the wayside or excluded because their way of life seems alien or even objectionable to their 'hosts'

This to me is similar to the 'Gay' situation... If I met a bloke in a pub or was introduced by friends I'd interact as normal and providing we had similar interests we'd probably become friends.. If then I happened to discover he was gay I doubt there would be a problem.. as I had already decided he was a good person... However when I first me the guy he was overtly camp, acted in an overly feminine way, wore make-up or 'made eyes' at other men I doubt any relationship would have gone any further than ''Hello'' ...

Many straight men find overtly gay guys threatening, weird or just un-settling.. They aren't gonna give them a chance .. No matter how much of a decent human they are... So overtly gay parades and overtly gay actions are your own worst enemy.. If you want to be accepted as 'normal' act 'normally' or at least within what most of society would consider acceptable..

Gay parades aren't helping in your acceptance and I'm sure there are many many gay people working away and leading happy lives who don't feel they have to broardcast their sexuality to the World..

Same as with other minorities who have managed to amalgamate into society.. Do you think that they believe that extreamist Muslims, Militant Blacks or even Fundementalist Christians do their image and acceptance into society any favours.. Of course not...

''When in Rome... Do as the Romans do..''

NO, that wasn't my point at all. Perhaps I wasn't clear. My penultimate and final sentences were meant to convey the notion that *had* there been Indian Pride parades, I would likely have been more myself more often (seeing—in hindsight— as myself is something I prefer to be) because such parades would have helped me be not ashamed of being Indian.

People shouldn't have to smother who they are or behave deceitfully in order to assimilate. Personally, I found that I became happier, had more fulfilling relationships (business, personal and wider social relationships) and slept sounder when, in my twenties, I ceased my pathetic attempts to camouflage who I was.

Granted, I didn't go out of my way to assert my Indianess. Through a series of fortunate events I gained the courage to be myself without needing to be offensive towards anyone else. Not everyone is so lucky and they need help. Besides, Gayness is quite a different kettle of fish and I fear I may be stretching the comparisons.

Perhaps like the Thais UG and I have spoken to, you may have misconstrued the point of a gay pride parade. That's understandable because most of our notions of gay parades come from viewing 50 second news clips of such events where the camera focuses on the most outrageous displays. Pointing a TV camera at the most flamboyant, attention-seeking person in the parade is a sure-fire way to make them behave even more outrageously. The less curious will simply assume that that is what a gay parade is and file that away permanently as their definition. As I understand it, this particular parade was meant to be respectful and well-behaved and from what I've seen of Chiangmai, respectfulness (both in attire and behavior) in public is de reguire here.

Funny you should mention Rome, btw. Homosexuals in ancient Rome were quite unabashed and well accepted. Let's hope modern Chiangmai, or more particularly the Red Shirt Brigade, catches up.

I was initially in favor of the Gay Pride Parade, but when I questioned my Thai staff how they felt about it and the red shirt’s interference, they told me that most local Thais feel like this is coming from foreign influence and intervention in their affairs and that it is "against Thai culture". They feel that there is little bigotry towards Gays in Thailand and that having a parade is way over the top as there is no parade for heterosexuals.

They also said that if people want to celebrate that day, there are plenty of gay bars and clubs where they can do what they wish in privacy, but having a parade about it is just not the Thai way.

Having a Gay Pride parade in Sydney or San Francisco makes a lot of sense, but if this is really how most Thais feel, perhaps we need to consider their feelings.

I too have spoken to some Thais who say similar things to what your staff said. However I get the feeling they're not saying quite exactly what they're feeling, which is, that heterosexual Thais are simply embarrassed by gayness. This embarrassment may not be linked to prejudice of any sort (or, for some of them, it could be) but by an inclination to keep private things private.

This in turn stems perhaps from a misunderstanding of what a gay parade is about, which is (as I understand it): a chance for tentative gays (tentative in the sense of not being completely 'out' for fear of being ostracized) and closeted gays and other gays to feel that there are whole communities out there like them who can freely parade on Main Street and that society on the whole embraces gays as equal members (by virtue of the fact that such a parade can take place peacefully). It is also a chance to educate the public at large that there is nothing 'otherness' about gays apart from sexual orientation; that gays are everyday people with everyday concerns like everyone else.

This particular gay parade that's been forced to cancel had the added laudable goal of raising awareness of HIV/AIDS. The high incidence of the affliction in Northern Thailand should be of concern to us all. I also understand that this parade was organized by Thais. This should not be relevant, but I see that in this discussion, it seems to be.

My sense is that many heterosexual Thais do not 'mind' gays as long as the gayness is not too in-your-face. What some might call 'Asian subtlety' I guess. Subtlety however does not necessarily mean absence of prejudice. It is like asking a black man to play down his blackness. Is it possible for a black man to play down his blackness? Yes it is, and I say this out of experience.

As an Indian who speaks fluent Cantonese and who's spent many years in Hongkong, there's been many a time that I've played down (in ways too numerous and subtle to mention) my Indianess. It's a skill one learns almost imperceptibly, growing up in a city where subtle prejudice *was* (not so much now) rampant. I suspect gays have similar coping skills in a society that may not fully allow them to be themselves.

How I wish there had been Indian Pride Parades in Hongkong!

Went to Mac shop - Airport Express out of stock Chaing Mai (what's new there). Have ordered, but might take a week or more.

Apple Thailand online store is open for biz: http://store.apple.com/th

Sponsor or not, if they're good they deserve praise and deserve to succeed. I've used MOW once and was very pleased with the service. Fast, efficient, friendly, hassle-free. And the delivery charge? No more than what it would cost to drive to the restaurant and back, so it's not even a consideration.

to keep the story short , i met a wonderful girl . about 18 days ago . and we are getting married soon

.

Go for it. I got married after dating for eight days, and I wasn't even in love! We've had sixteen years to fall in love, and are still falling.

There's a million reasons not to do it. Since you're in love, even if there are any red flags, you won't see them. Just be sure that you're not the type that, if things don't work out, will think it's the end of the world.

Good luck.

--with it urinolicious aroma--

Wordolicious!

I would be grateful if someone here could point me to an accountant who speaks Lao and has worked in Laos.

Thank you

I met a Chinese student at Payap U who speaks good English and is a part time Potunghua teacher. He teahces at NIS (Nakorn Payap International School) as well as other venues.

Don't have his number but you could check at NIS.

There's also a large facility in Huay Keaw Rd near the large Export Garment outlet just before the Phuchome Intersection.

T

www.ChildsDream.org

Seeker said:

"When I get back, I will probably be closer in to town, using aircon, and spending at least double what I was before, but at least the option to live comfortably on a tight budget is there."

Indeed, it's good to know the option's there, gives a certain peace of mind.

And Seeker said:

"I have thus far found TV filled with useful information and very kind and helpful posters. "

I second that. I've been lurking at the CM forums for a few weeks now and Ive yet to see anythig off-putting like the quote Matt mentioned. I'm sorry his first impressions were formed at that particular forum where that message appeared.

Matt, look aroun the CM forum a bit more before passing judgement, I think you'll change your mind.

I was asked this question a couple of months ago by a friend who wanted to move here. My response to him was similar to Steve2UK's (i.e., 55k plus be conservative with the exchange rate and that he'll need private transport).

He decided to move to Malaysia instead. Do I get a pat on the back for being a bad salesman for CM?

Anyway, my consultant's gene  kicked in and I made him a quick and dirty spreadsheet that took into account exchange rates, incomes and inflation, stretching out to 40 years (we should all live so long). If anyone's interested, I could upload the spreadsheet here.

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Good to know that my figures and approach seem to be about right.

Thakkar, I'd be very interested to see that spreadsheet. I have to admit that I effectively take for granted that my future finances will take care of themselves (rental income from UK property + return on investments + eventual disposal of both) - but "forewarned is fore-armed"..........

Just in passing - did your friend conclude that Malayasia is significantly cheaper or did he have other reasons for choosing there rather than LOS?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My friend has some distant relatives in Malaysia, so maybe that was the clincher, though for me, that fact alone would've been a deal breaker :-). He mumbled something about Malasyia being 'multi-cultural'. I told him I'd never met anyone who'd felt unwelcome in Thailand. He's muslim, so maybe the troubles in the South put him off and he didn't want to say so.

Anyway, can't upload the spreadsheet to this site, but you can get it

here. The file is called 40years, it's the only file in my public folder today.

Notes to the spreadsheet are on sheet 2.

Knock yourself out with scenarios and do let me know if you spot ommissions or mistakes, thanks.

I was asked this question a couple of months ago by a friend who wanted to move here. My response to him was similar to Steve2UK's (i.e., 55k plus be conservative with the exchange rate and that he'll need private transport).

He decided to move to Malaysia instead. Do I get a pat on the back for being a bad salesman for CM?

Anyway, my consultant's gene kicked in and I made him a quick and dirty spreadsheet that took into account exchange rates, incomes and inflation, stretching out to 40 years (we should all live so long). If anyone's interested, I could upload the spreadsheet here.

Jia Jia Sports Club 053 262286 in Thanawan Housing estate

A Swiming Pool, shower facilities, some basic gym equipment and weights

500 Bt a year + 20 to 30bt per visit

Thakkar

In Sirimangkalajarn, opposit soi 5, there's a place called Suandok appartments. 4k to 8k a month, depending on room.

Clean, comfortable restaurant downstairs opens at 7:30 am and serves decent, low-priced food. Bakery and Laundromat.

Plenty of Parking. Easy to catch transport at entrance

Within walking distance of Kad Suen Kaew (Lotus Hotel).

Thakkar

Okey, the spelling I think is Varee

Thakkar

Warri (sp?), a Thai school has a respectable international section with internationally accredited teachers.

The school is somewhere in Tamboon Pa Dad, perhaps others her can proide more detail.

Compared to Nakorn Payap, class sizes are double at about 30+, but the fees are about half.

Thakkar