nemrut

'Long-stay tourists' is just a euphemism for 'economic migrants.'

How many countries in the west are so accommodating to 'long-stay tourists' going so far as to publicly listen to them whine about lower living standards and lack of infrastructure...

12 minutes ago, tonray said:

That is absolutely true. In BKK (I live in an area not popular with foreigners) and many Thai vendors do not like to deal with me...I get the grunt and my change and then the inevitable chit chat about the 'farang' that I hear as I walk away. In Kohn Kaen, another city I have experience with, there is a much softer approach. While Thais in general do NOT want you in their neighborhoods, just try and walk down any small soi and the snarling dogs, the comments from the Thai men drinking on the side, and the stares you get from everyone else are a very unwelcoming sign. The most troubling is when faced with an aggressive dog where Thais are sitting right there, not one will say a word or raise a hand to help you, you are on your own. I can deal with that, we all want to keep what we are comfortable with and they do not want foreigners in their universe. But in many cities ,like Kohn Kaen there is a big difference in how they react to you in the common areas away from their domain, they are friendly and will actually help you. In BKK, there is the pretend patronizing in the farang tourist areas and then there is my experience in areas such as the Wongwian yai market, where you just get stares and glares and underhand comments when you try to shop there. That is why I limit myself to shopping with the few street vendors I know appreciate the business and the supermarkets where they are much more reasonable about dealing with you because it is their duty. 

 

It is an inward looking culture, not unlike many homogeneous neighborhoods in America however, you just have to accept it will never change.

 

Yet you're not subjected to verbal nor physical attacks the way many non-whites are in your home country and other western countries.

You should be grateful that youre even treated as well as you are and allowed to live in Thailand with little if any resistance from the govt unlike most countries.

Too many westerners come to Thailand and show little if any respect and even scorn for Thais and their culture.  This very evident in BKK and other cities w/a lot of expats (ie, western migrants), hence the unwelcoming treatment.

13 hours ago, hyperHowie said:

...SO WHAT AM I NOT SEEING? WHAT DO YOU THINK I NEED TO KNOW? WHAT UGLY SURPRISES AWAIT (good ones too)?

 

 

 

The main thing to consider with Thailand/Vietnam is that with the lower cost of living comes with lower standards (eg, poor water/air quality, pollution, lax enforcement, etc).  Sure, modern amenities are available but youre still in a developing country with poor infrastructure and lack of environmental awareness.

Vietnam is less developed than Thailand as you stated - but not much imo. Danang is probably the most liveable city in VN, but despite being a coastal tourist town, is plagued by the same problems in Thailand along with flagrant littering, urinating in public and untreated sewage and toxic runoff all along the coast.

That said, when i compare places like the US/UK/EU/AUS with Thailand and Vietnam, the main difference is a greater sense of civility and regard for others in the latter.  Despite being less developed, I have never worried about my safety, being harassed walking the streets at night, nor encountered the frequency of road rage and confrontational behavior that occurs so often in the west.

So imo, although the US and other western countries have a much higher standard of living, they also have lower quality of life(eg, less civility, more violent crime) while Thailand and other Asian countries have lower standards of living but higher quality of life(eg, more civility/regard for others, greater sense of well being).

8 hours ago, RawboneFunksta said:

Actually, violent crime has been falling for decades in Europe and the USA. Don't believe the hype.

Violent crime stats in US are only as good as the data the FBI is able to collect.  In fact, police stations in the US are not mandated to report any crime date and only voluntarily provide what they want.

And even with supposedly declining violent crime in western countries, it is still much worse than most Asian ones.  I personnally feel far safer walking alone at night in Bangkok, HCMC, Beijing or Shanghai than any large city in US/UK/AUS.

Many men have said some variation of what Trump claims as 'locker room talk.'  That said, many men would probably also be more discreet if they knew that they were being recorded for public viewing.

The fact that Trump showed little regard knowing his opinions would be aired, reveals a highly ego-centric sociopath.

No other country in the world makes it as easy to enter and stay to live as Thailand.  

In fact, farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai or non-white person would be in western countries.  

How many western countries would let people enter and live so easily?

This along with the poor water/air quality is the hidden costs to one's health that many, if not most, farang dont take into account when they crow about how cheap everything is and the low cost of living in Thailand.

3 hours ago, BlindMagician said:

Stop blaming the Thais? Open your eyes. The national attitude to littering is awful. Yesterday I saw a plastic water bottle thrown out of the car in front of me on a highway. Not only littering, but dangerous. Just one data point out of a many.

 

 

Saw this all the time traveling around the US.  It's a problem everywhere even in developed countries, but less so in smaller Euro countries like DK, CH, etc.

The main difference being, Thailand is still a developing country lacking sufficient infrastructure to deal with the increasing tourism and consumption.  That combined with lack of awareness and public education exacerbates the problem.  The Thai attitude toward garbage is similar to Americans during the 70s when openly littering was rampant and acceptable.

Also, the Thai litter problem pales in comparison to other countries like Vietnam where they not only openly litter in public, but frequently burn their garbage including plastic/styrofoam resulting in a haze of toxic fumes.

Bangkok and Tokyo are probably the two safest large cities in the world.

19 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

 

VF's point is honking your horn to avoid an accident is perfectly ok. 

 

Honking is considered offensive and an act of aggression in Thailand.  Whenever i hear someone honk and look to see who it is, almost always it's a farang.  Honking i is what starts many road rage incidents in places like the US.

Now in Vietnam, honk as much as you like and no one will take offense.

5 hours ago, amykat said:

 

Well that doesn't actually account for a "tiny" portion of the population.  Palo Alto is California's most educated city with 80% of over 25s having at least a bachelor's degree, for example. 

 

And you seem to be contradicting yourself ...so California is the richest state in the country with a per capita GDP of $63K so it is "easy to be magnanimous" you say ...yet you claim people are not.  Yet in Thailand where people are so poor, they are?

 

Then your description of people  ..."entitled, arrogant, self absorbed who only care about themselves" ... have you met many very rich people in BKK who don't fit this description?

 

And traffic and road rage ....you find this situation BETTER in Thailand?  How many machetes have you seen in the road in CA?  I've only had one person truly try to kill me in a road rage incident here because I honked the horn when they almost killed me, and then they really TRIED to kill me, repeatedly ...that never happened  in my many more years in CA and many more miles of driving.  That one is so ridiculous ... unless you just arrived here last week??

3

 

CA is a huge state, and by itself, is the 5-6th largest economy in the world.  Yes, it has more millionaires than any other state, but the wealthy are still tiny part of the total CA population.  

If youre from CA you would know $60k doesnt go very far especially in much of the Bay Area where rental/housing prices have skyrocketed.

Communities like Palo Alto, Atherton, Portola, Belvedere, etc are enclaves for the wealthy.   Palo Alto appears to be normal middleclass neighborhood but in reality houses start at $2-5m for 1-2bdrm run down fixer uppers.

In terms of rich in US vs Thailand, one has roots in Christian values vs Buddhist values..take your pick.

As for road rage, it is much more prevalent in the US along with UK/AUS/RUS than anywhere else in the world.  You only have read the news, google, youtube to see the evidence.  There are more shootings due to road rage in US by far than any in Thailand.
 

3 hours ago, onemorechang said:

 

To be honest mate,   Thais guys are much worse than the bikers

will ever be.  The bikers would know when to stop.

Thai guys dont.     Have a read round the internet and see what these

young Thai  guys do to old tourists for the smallest of imfringments

its truly disguising.   

4

I know of only one incident/video where older tourists were assaulted by Thais, and despite what many farang want to believe, the tourists brought it upon themselves, just look at the video.  

As for these knuckle draggers, all i see are 3 over fed grunts ganging up on someone half their size.  If they were real men as they try so hard to appear to be, it should only take one of them to deal with the Thai.

In the end, karma will mete out its own form of justice to these knuckleheads.

What a bunch of low-life thugs.  

It's no wonder Thais flip out on foreigners when so many of them think they're entitled to anything they want wherever they go.

If a bunch of Thais, or heaven forbid Chinese or other Asians, ganged up on an Aussie in Australia you can bet the entire media would be up in arms and there would be a massive witchhunt with many innocent victims.

11 hours ago, amykat said:

" People are generally very friendly, kind, relaxed, well-off, well-traveled, educated, etc. "

 

You're kidding right?  That accounts for tiny percentage of the population.  

It's easy to be magnanimous when one is well fed, has a roof over their head and are able to easily satisfy other material needs.

As for Californians, specifically northern ones in SF Bay area, there are far too many entitled, arrogant and self absorbed people there who care only about themselves and have little regard for others.  Traffic is a mess and road rage occurs quite often from the city to the eastbay, down both I-80 and I-5 corridors.

The difference with Zika today vs past strains is that it has resulted in very real mental/physical impairments of newborn babies, primarily in S America.  

Now  there is evidence that current strain of Zika is spread not only by mosquitos but can also be transmitted through sex and other bodily fluids.

Zika is now spreading through SE Asia and even highly developed Singapore.  The social implications are huge for increasing number of newborns afflicted with microcephaly.

8 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

Ryan Lochte :

Washington Post:

"There is a special category of obnoxious American 'bro' that Lochte represents, in his T-shirt and jeans and expensive suede footwear, which he showed off on Instagram that night at the party along with the price tag. 'We're 6k deep here,' he captioned it. Is there anything worse, in any country, than a bunch of entitled young drunks who break the furniture and pee on a wall?"

San Francisco Chronicle:

"It doesn't matter what else Lochte has done in his Olympic career. This cemented his legacy: most embarrassing Olympic athlete."

New York Post:

"He cried wolf and was called on it, and that will be his burden to bear for a good long while - but not his alone. The Ugly American is alive and well in 2016 thanks to this dope."

 

 

" Inherent in all of Lochte’s statements in this controversy is a lack of respect. "

A lack of respect while openly disparaging the locals is far too common among those like Lochte and the many farang visiting/residing in Thailand and much of SE Asia.

Such behavior in a foreign country often invites retaliation -- usually against farang.

Brits/Yanks/Aussies -  seems it's often these farang that create the most drama and often stir up trouble.

Farang should not be rewarded for drunk, disrespectful, belligerent behavior...least of all when theyre in a foreign country.

Farangs, especially those from US/UK/AUS  seem to come from cultures that place an emphasis on dominance, ego and self-interest above all else.  

That is why so many can't grasp the importance of 'face' in Asian cultures because they often have little regard for others and live only for themselves.

Even the dining habits of farang using fork/knife speaks to being guarded and threatening to others as if protecting themselves and their food.

Many Asians often wonder why farang get offended and create drama so easily.  As evidenced by the OP, it seems a lot has to do with their own inflated sense of self-importance.

Amazing...barely out of puberty, hormones/testosterone on overdrive, feelings of invincibility, what coul go wrong?

Awareness that there are substantial numbers of Thai people, and particularly angry young Thai men, who hate farangs (and likely all foreigners) is something people should be aware of when coming to Thailand.

Just as there are likely many young men in your home country who feel the same about non-whites and arent afraid to act on it.

The difference is that most farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai/non-white person would be in your home country and other predominantly white/euro countries.

This is an international forum, but you're making the assumption that all members here come from "white countries" and should understand what is going on in your country. Africans, Asians etc all read and post on here.

Having said that, non-white, indigenous people are treated very well in my home countries. Thais are also treated better than they treat us here and have more rights, especially if they're being scammed, AND the police are not corrupt and take complaints of tourists being mistreated very seriously. If my home countrymen beat a tourist this badly they most certainly would do time. It wouldn't make much difference who started it. A gang bashing of a 62 year old man is a very serious offense. The prosecutors would be going for attempted murder, and that's not far fetched at all.

Awareness that there are substantial numbers of Thai people, and particularly angry young Thai men, who hate farangs (and likely all foreigners) is something people should be aware of when coming to Thailand.

Just as there are likely many young men in your home country who feel the same about non-whites and arent afraid to act on it.

The difference is that most farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai/non-white person would be in your home country and other predominantly white/euro countries.

Farangs questioning why such incidents happen need look no further than the disparaging, hateful things said by their fellow countrymen about Thais on TV and other forums daily.

It's no wonder Thais retaliate when they encounter one too many arrogant/belligerent farang who while living in their country, think theyre entitled to look down on them and treat them with disrespect.

As for this incident, one can only surmise that the Frenchman-who like his countrymen, are used to being confrontational and expressing themselves aggressively, exacerbated the situation resulting in the assault.

Seems to be a lot of imbeciles defending this farang couple.

The two were clearly in public view just off a heavily trafficked pedestrian street. Would they have done the same in the US or Ireland in similar surroundings...likely not.

Another couple of low-life farangs who think theyre entitled to behave like animals wherever they go.

Why do male farang often walk around public with no shirt on?

Why do female farang often walk around the street barefoot, especially on airplanes?

Both are often disgusting, especially the latter not to mention when entering the bathroom.

Why do farang often feel the need to walk around in public shirtless?