Arkady

19 hours ago, Michael Hare said:

I did mine in 2002 and got it in 2004. I agree that now the process is unrecognisable. I did everything myself living here in Ubon. Took four one day trips down to Bangkok to Soi Suan Plu. I got my home country police check through my Embassy in Bangkok. Didn't bother them again. All my documents (from passport, birth certificate, university diplomas etc) were officially translated at Ubon University and stamped. All the people I dealt with at Soi Suan Plu were very helpful. If some document was not quite right, they would ring me up from Bangkok to get me to correct it. 

So the home country police checks must have been started between 1997 when I applied and 2002 when you applied. I didn't need anything from my embassy at all. Also the requirement to translate English language documents into Thai must have come in at that time. The price went up in the early 2000s too when the Thaksin regime decided to make things more difficult and more expensive.  I paid a B2,000 application fee and B50,000 on success which was picked up by my company.  No tea money was requested or hinted at any stage and it took 12 months which was normal.  In fact there were three batches approved after meetings of the Immigration Commission that year - 6 months, 9 months and 12 months after application which seemed like an age. There was no discount for those with Thai spouses.  Arguably it was cheap enough but I remember the naysayers arguing that it was a ridiculous hassle and expense and they were quite happy with their NON-B visas until they lost their jobs in the financial crisis and suddenly became non-persons as far as Thailand was concerned, unable to even own a mobile phone or motor bike in their own names.

Home country police checks. Another thing I was never asked to do for PR or citizenship. It's as if they are given a quota to add X number of burdensome requirements to the procedures per year. Since I did it in 1997 the process is almost unrecognisable, not that it was a piece of cake then.  lt started in the late 20s as a simple application without quota at the docks where mainly Chinese arrivals had to convince the IO they had a trade or profession (or baksheesh) whereby they would be able to support themselves in the Kingdom.  They introduced the nationality quotas in the early 50s and substantially increased the fees to stem the flow of Chinese immigrants when they feared a communist fifth column after the communist revolution in China. To date the quotas have only really applied to the Chinese which include Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens in the regulations. Before 1997 Hong Kong people were under the British quota.

Taking a leaf out of the citizenship application book where it is a requirement, I would think someone preparing to apply for PR should consider making regular donations to Thai registered charities and show the receipts as partial evidence of contribution to Thai society. It is best to steer clear of including volunteer work in your portfolio as the Labour Ministry representative on the Immigration Committee might seize on the opportunity to show their worth by nailing you for working without a WP. Avoid saccharine statements about loving all Thai people and HMK.  Even if it is true, it is not really a contribution to society and sounds patronising to them.  

50 minutes ago, philba said:

They have to have some local staff, as Brits would never truly understand the Thai way to talk to authoities in the correct manner, however about half the consular staff ARE British.

Of course all embassies in all countries need to have some local staff.  I think he was mainly saying the embassy guards should be trusted nationals of the home country or trusted nationals of a third country and I tend to agree with him. Even the Gurkha guards were no spring chickens at the end and they were not provided with firearms at the end, I am quite sure that they would have put up as solid a defence as they could with the weapons at their disposal.  Any malefactor unwise enough to get within range of their kukris would have suddenly found himself missing a body part.  I recall my very first meeting with a British ambassador in Thailand in the early 80s when he attended a function I arranged as a visiting export manager still based in London. I noticed that the ambassador came into the hotel tailed by a uniformed Gurkha bodyguard with a pistol on his belt in a polished old fashioned holster with a flap covering the whole gun (although it might have been filled with tissue paper for all I knew).  I have never seen a British ambassador with a Gurkha bodyguard since then or any Gurkha in Thailand armed with a firearm. The Gurkha guards at the embassy told they were not issued with any firearms. The Thai government issues firearms licenses for foreign embassy guards but I don't know there are any in the British embassy.  However, they certainly request permission for British detectives to bring pistols and ammunition when they come to protect British VIPs.  They are usually assigned armed Thai VIP protection officers to work with them. However, the Americans refuse to allow armed Thai VIP protection officers to get anywhere near their own visiting VIPs.

I wonder what's in their draft.

So perhaps they will require medical certificates to be sent in after a certain age like in the UK.  I am glad they are not planning to revoke the all of life licenses as I got one 20 years back not long before they amended the law that resulted in 5 years being the maximum validity of a license.  I didn't need to take a driving test for the lifetime driving license. I just showed my UK driving license in the first instance and got a 1 year license, then a 3 year license and then was eligible for the lifetime one but it was only given to foreigners with PR. There weren't any 5 year licenses in those days.

Since they stopped issuing lifetime licenses in about 2003 all the holders of lifetime car licenses must be over 39 years old as you needed to be 18 to get your first license and then needed to hold licenses for at least 4 years to apply. But many people didn't apply for the lifetime license because the fee was a lot higher than for the 3 year ones.

I am not sure if proper medical checks are required for renewal of the 5 year licenses.  That might be a good place for them to start.

3 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Got a phone call from BKK telling me that my citizenship paperwork has been sent to my local police station. Expecting a call to come over and do some Thai conversations, I am guessing. Fingers crossed. Married with Thai wife and have a Thai son.

I wonder why they would send it to your local police station. Generally only special branch police handle citizenship applications, as stipulated in the Nationality Act - either the special branch head office in Bangkok or the provincial special branch offices in the provincial capitals.   Are the local police expected to handle some part of it on behalf of special branch these days?

Probably better to continue this in the citizenship thread.

5 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

No Thai maid would ever do such a thing ????

In the days when Thai maids were still readily available I heard many stories of thefts from employers by Thai maids. They would usually just go and hang out in their villages, safe in the knowledge that there was no cooperation between police forces on crimes like that and that Bangkok cops had no budget to travel, unless the victims paid them.

I remember a Malaysian friend was told by the local police colonel that under Thai law he couldn't investigate the case of theft of some of her family heirlooms by her maid because foreigners would cause problems by being back in their own country and not showing up in court.  A few days later she found herself at a dinner with Anand Panyarachun who was prime minister at the time. She asked Khun Anand if it was true that the theft could not be legally investigated. The police colonel soon found he had a new posting to the Northeast and the maid was surprised to be arrested in her own village.  But that was a very rare case.

You would think the maids would just take off to the border with the money and jewellery before the theft was discovered. If undocumented, no one would know who they were anyway. If documented, they could go back to Burma, change their names and come back again.

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

Just a load of BS, did he kill the policeman?

The Attorney general is an absolute disgrace, should hang his head in shame.

The Attorney General apparently claimed he had no knowledge of this and was waiting to read details of the case.

Very strange poll.  Pre-COVID 12-15% of Thai GDP was generated by foreign tourism.  If you include suppliers to the tourism industry, probably well over 10% of Thai people were dependent on tourist dollars. So, if the poll claims to have reached a representative sample, some of the respondents are in favour of unemployment and desperate financial conditions for them and their families.

3 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Perhaps I should mention my Thai son is 36 years old not a little boy and understands all the documents. He's well educated and very capable of polite/focused discussion with the RED book policeman.

555.  Good that you mentioned that.  I had images of a little boy in shorts going along and peering over the desk in the cop shop.

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

CM has one policeman handling this at a main station, he mentioned before there are 12 PR holders in CM province.

 

When I got the PR approval letter my agent, who was aware that those approved had to get everything documented quickly, went into instant 'high speed' mode to:

 

- Get me to the old Imm. office at Soi suan Phlu for the dark blue PR book, and the next day...

- to the local major police station to get the police RED book.

 

I recall my agent mentioned 'PR and RED book must be issued within 7 days of the date on the approval letter and the days in the postal delivery process and week-ends/public holidays are counted in the 7 days'.

After taking another look at the Immigration Act I realise there is nothing there about red books but you can lose your PR, if you fail to apply for the blue residence book within 30 days of your approval. 

It is required to apply for the red book within 7 days of getting your residence book but under a police regulation I guess or another law. The penalty for being late is apparently a fine not cancellation of PR.  I had either not been told about this or hadn't listened and applied for mine on the last day as I got my residence book just before ew Year holidays. I was no. 1 registered in the new year in my police station and the cops told me I was just in time to avoid having my PR cancelled.  Now I think this was probably a bit of an exaggeration. 

20 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

The policeman on duty in Ubon today said that many of the 400 PRs had retired and don't always come along. Maybe they are too old and send a relative along. I think Ubon police station does the whole province. Why don't you send your red book up to your son by DHL or FedEx? I agree that the police in the police station are more relaxed and flexible than those at immigration. 

Also, as far as I know, the only big issue with the red book is if you don't apply for it in time after your PR is first approved which can result in cancellation of your PR under the Immigration Act. I think that is the requirement to do with the red book that is written in concrete in the law. The rest is just police regulations with small fines as penalties. 

It makes sense that red books in the provinces are handled by the main provincial police station as most police stations would have no PRs in their precincts.  Most of the farangs living in villages don't have PR as they came to retire and had never worked in the Kingdom.  I suspect there are some police precincts in Bangkok with very few too.  I don't know what happens in the surrounding provinces like Nonthaburi and Patum Thani or the other provinces with a lot of foreigners like Phuket, Chonburi, Surat and Chiang Mai.

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I need to get the 5 year police RED book renewal on 12 August this year. However I'm caught in Australia with difficulties to return to Thailand because of Covid 19:

 

- Cannot, at the moment, get permission to leave Australia.

- Thai PR book re-entry stamp expires 17 November 2020, already spoke to Thai embassy in Sydney they advised I might be allowed to join a Thai repat. flight but dates of the flights unknown and next one not for at least 60 days. Plus Sydney embassy said I need to apply for repat flight much closer to 17 November, not now. (There is of a course an extension of 12 months on the re-entry date.)

- I mentioned to the Sydney embassy that my Thai police RED book needs the 5 year renewal on 12 August. Officer at embassy had no idea what I was talking about, neither did his boss, but was keen to listen and build his understanding. Boss did suggest that I get a family member in Chiang Mai to take copies of every document to the CM police station which handles this and seek advice. He also said that PR books etc., are immigration matters and must always be totally correct, whereas the police requirements probably have some flexibility because of the current situation.

 

Luckily the policeman who handles the RED books at CM police station is very pleasant and welcoming. Last time my Thai son came with me and the policeman privately said to my son, your father is getting old if he has health problems next time and difficult to get to the station they no need for him to come, just bring all the documents and new photo and the RED book and it can be renewed without difficulty.

 

The difficulty this year is that I will in Aust. because of Covid issues so my son will go to CM police station about 4 weeks before renewal date with copies of all the documents (but of course not the original RED book). The plan is for my son to ask the policeman to accept the copies of all the documents and new photo and also pay the fee (last time 800Baht) with a promise I will bring the original book to the station very quickly after I do return to Thailand.

 

Hopefully the policeman will agree. 

 

 

If you are sure your son can manage the renewal of the red book without you, you could courier the book to him.  Courier services to Thailand are working normally as they have their own planes (I am expecting a DHL delivery from the US this afternoon). There doesn't seem much point in getting him to try to renew your red book without the book.  On the other hand, not endorsing your red book on time is not very serious as far as I know. I believe there would just be small fine to pay.  Why not get your son to ask them.  If they confirm it is not to serious, you can save all the trouble and wait till you get back and pay the fine.

Hopefully travel to Thailand will be easier by November but no guarantee of that. 

49 minutes ago, Michael Hare said:

Just extended my PR in the Ubon Ratchathani police station for another 5 years. Took 20 minutes. I always forget what documents they need and of course they do not require any documents at all. Just the old brown-red book. The policeman doing the paperwork asked me if I had moved house during the last 5 years. I said, yes, and showed him my new address. As usual, I asked how many foreigners did PR through the Ubon office. He said they had about 400 on their books. 

I was once fined the sum of B100 for late reporting that I had changed my address but this was because I had moved from one police precinct to another.  Perhaps this is not an issue if you move within the same police precinct. I once asked the some question of the officer who had an important looking sign on his desk saying "Registration of Aliens" implying this was all he did.  He told me there were about 100 PR aliens in my police precinct in Bangkok.  I guess these are highly sort after jobs and a good reason why the police and Immigration will always resist change to a more modern system of smart ID cards issued by district offices.

I don't know if Ubon Ratchathani police station handles all the red books in the whole province.  In Bangkok every single police station has this aliens registration desk, as far as I know.

SCB is a real pain. After I got Thai nationality they refused to change my account from farang passport to Thai ID card. They don't seem to have any rules or procedures for things like this. They just phone up someone at head office who gives an opinion off the top of his head - usually "no", if it is something he has no clue about and is to lazy to find out.

It was not my main account and I only used to pay off my SCB credit card. So I just waited. After two years I went back into the same branch and the guy said, no problem sir, it will just take a few minutes and we'll issue you a new book with your name in Thai as a Thai customer.  He was as good as his word and didn't call anyone in head office.

KBANK I find the easiest. Changing to Thai ID number took less than 3 minutes with the girl just putting my ID card into her smart card read which recorded the changes automatically. No need to change the book because you didn't change your name. The next book will have a Thai name.  I was astonished after torture sessions I had been subjected to at KBANK and BBL.  Thai banks are very different from each other.

5 hours ago, rupert the bear said:

are these the guys that closed the airport down using violence yrs ago?ohhh same same but different.

No. Those were yellows.  These are reds.

Sounds like the Supreme Court's role is now to the review the sentences only, since they changed their pleas to guilty after the appeal court confirmed their convictions. I don't know if they can expect any lenience for changing pleas at that point. It would have been different, if they had pleaded guilty in the court of first instance.

If they don't sort out what was causing the economy to slump before the pandemic, it's hard to imagine that it is going to rise from the ashes like a phoenix.

On 6/9/2020 at 9:00 AM, Badb0y said:

Sorry, I mix matched 2 topics with my question ???? This is the question that I wanted to put here:

Next month I'm going to have the 3yr non immigrant visa with the same company, monthly salary was more then 80k and due to my company was hit hard due to Covid-19 I don't think if a mentioned 2nd wave will come my company will survive (or me) so I need to action fast.

Based on this article couple of questions came to my mind.

 

1.

Do I need to have a work permit at the time of the application or is it enough to have historical tax receipts?

 

2.

Is it possible to go with the wife and she can help with the Thai or they need conversational Thai?

 

3.

Such a shame after 3 years my Thai still terrible, if I fail the Thai test but I can reach the 50 points can I get the visa?

 

4.

If I calculate the points, I have 38 points with Age, Education and profession Criteria so I need additional 12 at least. Personality let's say they can give 5 point, if I'm lucky I can get these questions, I might get 5-8 points, and I heard some donation before, but I'm not sure about how many point and what is the steps to get point of it? When I have to donate and where, how much?

 

5.

I can learn to introduce myself, talk about my history a bit and why I want to apply for a citizenship, would that be enough?

Is there any special panel questions that I might get from the officer during the Thai interview so I can prepare.

 

6.

Can I apply if I married less than 1 year ago, however we live together more than 2 years? Also if I adopt a baby, does it count as my child in the application?

 

7. Tabien baan I assume is out of scope from my point of view because I just rented in the last 3 years.

 

Hope guys you can help.

 

Thanks in advance.

If you can't speak much Thai, you will probably get very few points for knowledge of the Thai language and maybe zero. However, you can still score some points for the Knowledge of Thailand test, as you are allowed to have your Thai wife help you with the multiple choice answers. 

The donations are required but you don't get any points for them.

You can get on a yellow tabien baan using a friend or relative's address but will get no points for it, unless it is the blue tabien baan you get for being a PR.  Actually you must submit a yellow tabien baan in order to apply.

You need to have a WP at least until the NIA interview a few months after your application.  You are supposed to maintain one thoughout the process though and could get caught out, if you don't have one in some circumstances.  See separate post.