Arkady

My experience living in two different police precincts in Bangkok was that both had a cop dedicated to endorsing alien books sitting at a desk with sign saying alien registrations in Thai in front of him. Although not very lucrative, this must be a plum job for cops who have a sideline job or just enjoy playing LINE and Facebook and chatting up the female cops all day.  Once I was told to come back another day to pick up the endorsed book because the cop with authority to sign, who apparently came only rarely to the station, was not there.  When I told him it was urgent because I needed it to renew my WP he offered to sign himself for an extra 200 baht.  So there is some opportunity for extra income but very few customers.  I can understand why some upcountry cop shops may have problems figuring out what to do or might just deny that the books are needed in the hope the problem will simply go away. But if they were smarter, they would figure it out and see the opportunity to make a couple of hundred baht.

3 hours ago, mattkbv said:

Red Police Book Discontinued?

I've had Thai PR since 2011 or so, and have a red "police" book from Khlong Tan police station. I have just moved my house registration to Krabi.  I've been trying to do the same with my police book, since I heard it must be done within 30 days. No one will do it.  Khlong Tan police (by phone), Ao Nang police and another local police station (both in person) all said contact Krabi Immigration. Krabi Immigration rightly said, this is a police document, go to the police. I ended up at Muang Krabi police station where a kind policeman made a few calls to his mates. He the informed me this document is no longer in use.  Can anyone verify this?  Bangkok Immigration previously required this book to issue dependent visas for my family.  And who knows who else may ask for it in the future.  Please share your experiences regarding moving your police book to a new location. Or, if you have confirmed information that this book is no longer required, then please share the source.

 

The authority on this would be the PR section at Immigration CW. Even thought they obviously don't issue the Alien Books themselves, they have to send documents to police stations for the books to be issued or have details amended. So they would have know if there has been a change.  I would suggest you give them a call.

The Alien Books appear to date back to the original 1927 Immigration Act and look as if they were printed then too. There hasn't been real need for them for decades and they could easily be abolished.  Unlike the Residence books they are not referred to in the Immigration Act, so could be abolished without the need to amend the Act, possibly with a ministerial order.  Now that foreigners can get pink ID cards, the Alien Books could be replaced with those, or better still a decent smart card that is colour coded specifically for PRs and not shared with migrant workers and minorities.

13 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Really?  What processes?  Is this just some face-saving stuff to make it seem like Thailand isn't so reliant on foreign countries?  And will these "processes" add any additional risks?

Of course the vaccines cannot go through rigorous processes in Thailand without setting up their own trials.  All the Thai FDA can do is review the data submitted by producers to regulators in developed countries which they  probably don't bother to do.  Most likely they would just read summaries of decisions made by the other regulators.  But in the case of the Sinovac vaccine this isn't possible because the trials have not been completed and it may not even be approved in China where the government has selected another vaccine produced by Sinopharm in preference to the Sinovac product.

4 hours ago, beeper said:

Tabien baan is required at the end of the process as IO will prepare letter to police in the Amphoe where your future official residence will be, and where the red book will be issued after PR is officially approved).  Process with that letter is (valid 1week only) you need to go the local police to get red book issued and with that to the amphoe where they will include you into a blue tabien baan. amphoe can also issue the pink ID (not legally required but nevertheless somewhat useful in my view).

when I got later a local mortgage from  UOB, they updated my pre PR account using the pink ID number (from passport number previously) to identify my account. Other bank where I had account also pre PR (and does not offer local mortgage to PR holder) did not know what I was talking about when trying get them to use pink ID number also. They insist on keeping my passport copy as record of my account ID ignoring PR status. 

 

There is great variation between banks on this sort of policy.  Many people have had problems getting banks to change their nationality after getting citizenship. in my case it varied between KBANK which took about 2 minutes by simply scanning my ID to SCB which said they couldn't do it at all after speaking to some numbskull at HQ and told me to open a new account. I waited a year and went back to the same branch of SCB and found that new staff could do it easily without consulting HQ. BBL insisted that i bring in the original naturalisation certificate to photocopy themselves.

While still a PR I went to a new job and gave the HR dept all my PR docs, pointing out my ID/tax number which I had used for years on tax returns. What did they do?  They applied to the Revenue Dept for a new foreigner tax ID for me, as if I had just arrived in the Kingdom, which they insisted on not changing for the three years i was in that job.  In the meantime I continue filing my tax returns under my own number without any ill effects. Being a PR puts you into a sort of limbo as very few Thais understand what it is, so just try to ignore it and ask for your passport but it's still worth having in spite of the lack of recognition.

A former employee was planning to come to Bkk from Korat for some short term work this week but it was announced in her village that anyone returning from outside would have to quarantine in Korat city before returning to the village. Not sure of the legal basis for this or how it would work in practice but she is no longer coming to Bkk.  So it is effective in discouraging people from going on trips to earns some money.

It is all very confusing. They say these visas have been issued since 2018 and there is no need to have a work permit. Is that true?

It is hard to imagine digital nomads wanting to apply for this, if they are already doing fine without it.  The hook seems to be that they could work for Thai firms which is not an interesting idea for most as they are very difficult to deal with and pay very little.

15 hours ago, Flying Saucage said:

 

Then the question is: Why did they not preorder as well, as other countries did? 

 

Where they just waiting for a Chinese vaccine? Or are their priorities more to have arguments to keep the emergency law as long as possible active during the coming year? Or were they busy with their own money making and just forgot to preorder a vaccine? Or, are the Western vaccines simply too quickly available now, as the bankrupted Thai tourism industry is not yet cheap enough for investors from China and from their own clique?

 

Probably all these points play a role together.

 

 

Some countries just couldn't afford to order the Pfizer or Moderna vaccinces and the former is unsuitable for tropical 3rd world countries due to its storage requirements.  Thailand has done a deal to produce the Astra Zeneca virus.  They had hopes of the Chula vaccine which was never going to happen and we hear no more of it now.  I am sure you are right that they are also hoping for low cost Chinese vaccines.

Since there is very little COVID in Thailand at the moment letting human guinea pigs in other countries test the vaccines first might work in our favour and they may also come out with a single dose vaccine.

I expect private hospitals will be selling very high priced vaccines ahead of the government programme, depending on Thai FDA approvals.

No mention of vaccination certificate requirement for visa renewal but that will probably come.  

Something not really needed for the pandemic but might mysteriously continue on indefinitely.

3 hours ago, thedemon said:

 

I suspect Immigration is asking for a copy of the Tabien Baan (blue) that the applicant intends having their name registered in once PR has been granted. 

Bit of a mystery why Immigration asked for his tabien baan.  Perhaps you are right and they wanted a copy of the one he will be entered into (either a blank one, if you have bought a new condo, or an already activated one you plan to be entered into).  In my case that would have been impossible as I lived in an apartment for which no tabien baan had ever been issued.  After much entreaty and hassle the owner kindly got a tabien baan issued which I think was for the entire building with his brother as the householder and me as the sole other resident.

It's also possible they have got used to applicants showing up with a yellow book and asked for it in case he had one. As far as I know, it is a requirement for district offices to issue a yellow tabien baan to a foreigner who requests one and presents with the right visa and documents but it is not required for foreigners to apply for one and not required for PR applications.  However, if you have a yellow tabien baan (and a pink ID card) you should submit copies with your application for the sake of completeness.

On 6/29/2020 at 11:30 AM, Khun Tae said:

10kg of books from Singapore via FeD costs me incld tax = 4000 Baht 

Books sent to Thailand are  not subject to import duty or VAT. Couriers like to charge for everything though.  Avoid them. I was sent a catalogue unsolicited and the courier appeared at my house with a bill. So I told him to keep the catalogue.

"We've been told by the Foreign Office that unless he pays his medical bills the hospital can withhold his passport and he won't be able to leave the country."

I wouldn't have thought that hospitals can legally hold passports which are the property of the British government. But perhaps the FCO was just telling them what can actually happen in Thailand.

On 11/8/2020 at 10:02 AM, bobandyson said:

Any Brit who has lived outside of the UK for more than one year would have to wait 6 months before receiving benefits upon returning.

That's from what I've heard.

That is true bu they cannot withhold treatment.  They can present a bill but I don't think they sue, if you don't pay.  Many people go back and don't disclose they have been living overseas. I know a lot of Brits who maintain an address in the UK and visit the doctor on visits home to keep that option open.  I found an old NHS card in a draw from the early 80s but I am sure that would do the trick.

On 11/1/2020 at 2:17 PM, Ketyo said:

With 10M investment in a new property or a fixed interest account or a Thai government bond you can already get an investment non-B visa. It allows you to stay indefinitely. Just renew the visa every year and do the 90 day report. 

 

So what does this new concept give people that is different? Does it apply to any condo old or new...  or what?

Good point. It seems like this proposal has been made by property developers without much research into existing regulations. The government can just reply,  "That's a great idea which is why we introduced the investment visa over 20 years ago."  After the Tom Yam Kung crisis they actually reduced the threshhold to 2 million for several years.  The advantage of this type of visa is that you can work on it but it is not dependent on your employment status. So if you stop working it makes no difference to your visa. I knew several people who used it when it was 2 million which could be put on deposit at Krung Thai Bank instead of buying a condo. 

They will shoot their bolt by suggesting something which already exists.  Not much chance in the government offering PR for condo buyers anyway.  Most of the conditions for granting PR are set in concrete in the 1979 Immigration Act and can only be amended by act of parliament.  I don't think it has ever been amended as governments are free to change the terms of all other types of visa through police orders or ministerial regulations.  Amending the Immigration Act would be a big thing that a government would have to put on the parliamentary agenda and be prepared for a big tousle over.  I don't think they could be bothered for something like this. 

They are also going to point out that there is already an investment category for PR for those who invest in businesses, even though it is practically a sham as investment applicants still need to meet the same requirements for work history and salary tax payment as everyone else but their investments are placed under close scrutiny.  So an  easy way to do it would be to just amend the guidelines to this category to include 10m investment in new condos. That would mean the applicants would still need to meet all the other criteria of the investment category, i.e 3 years' continuous WP, salary over 80k per month etc which would entitle them to apply under the business category without investing anything. They have done this to the humanitarian category for those supporting Thai family which is just for show because they will not accept applications from anyone who doesn't meet the business category qualifications but they are subject to scrutiny of their Thai family.

The condo developers should have done their research and suggested lowering the threshhold to less than 10 million again, rather than waste everyone's time with an ill considered proposal like this.

Now Prayut has been PM for over six years, or  longer than anyone else since the end of absolute Deleted in 1932, except for Thanom's 10 year stint (mainly as military dictator without a constitution but he staged a coup against his own government at one point when he got fed up with parliament) from 1963 to 1973 when he was overthrown by a student uprising.  It remains to be seen whether Prayut has the staying power to beat Thanom's record in office.

2 hours ago, Misty said:

An update on the medical certificate. We ended up going to the Royal Thai Police General Hospital.  Overall, it was a fairly straight forward process and staff were good.  Total time was 3 hours, - this included the staff's lunch break.  Had to pick up completed certificates the following day, but this can be avoided if you go early.  Tests that were run included a blood test, chest X-ray, and urine test for drug use.  Last two tests were surprises - as far as I can remember, they aren't part of any work permit medical I've done in decades here.  Note: if you go here, bring your work permit.  Cost of the medical certificate would have been substantially lower had we brought ours (a fact not mentioned as needed when we called for information).

Well it was the police hospital. So the urine samples for drug tests are not surprising.  Every now and again they might catch someone by surprise who has been a little speeding or something and get a windfall bust. To be more thorough they should have taken hair samples too. As I recall they are supposed to certify no drug addiction or alcoholism but most doctors will not bother to do a urine test to certify this.  The fact that your urine is clear that day doesn't mean you are not an alcoholic or drug addict anyway.

For my very fist WP the lawyer took me to a small clinic for the medical certificate where the doctor asked me to roll up my sleeves and examined my arms closely.  I asked him what he was looking for and he said he was looking for needle track marks in case I was an intravenous drug user. I know he could argue that he was just doing his job but I was very peeved by this and refused to go anywhere near that clinic again. As far as I know, the government doesn't require any specific tests, except for syphilis.  It is up to the doctor's discretion how he determines whether the patient is free from the designated afflictions.

34 minutes ago, thedemon said:

I had my medical certificate issued (in 2006) at Vibhavadi Hospital which is private. I recall the only thing they actually tested for was blood pressure and it took about 5 minutes.

 

Is the government hospitals only requirement something new?

When I applied in 1997 it had to be a government hospital.

29 minutes ago, SteveB2 said:

It's good to hear that some PR applicants had a relatively smooth ride.

 

I was eventually successful on the 5th attempt - However, I found the entire mutli-year application process to be so uncertain, tedious and dreadfully drawn out, that in the end I didn't care anymore if PR was issued or if I was simply thrown out of the kingdom. It was that bad.

 

Thankfully, on my last attempt, the entire years PR aplication intake was processed in a relatively short period of about 18 months - previous successful PR applications were taking many years to run the mill of ministry aprovals prior to issuance of the PR book after a successful application.

 

What I found strange was that during the final meetings, I was advised to apply for citizenship as it was 'easier'  

 

Easier...  ????

It is easier. Most of the hurdles are lower and they are open for applications every working day of the year.  Immigration staff realised this several years ago and started advising people who were qualified to go straight for citizenship and not bother with PR.  It used to be the case that for males the only route to citizenship was through PR. But the big game changer was the 2008 amendment to the Nationality Act that allowed males with Thai wives to apply for citizenship without having PR first and without knowledge of the Thai language (no singing). It has always been relatively easy for women with Thai husbands to apply and the amendment was intended to level the playing field, although foreign men with Thai wives still need to be working in Thailand, which is not required for foreign women with Thai husbands.

42 minutes ago, Misty said:

Yes, definitely agree regarding Chula. One of our staff thought it would be "prestigious" but for this purpose I can't see waiting all day from 5am being worth the "prestige."   Will check out Lertsin (actually never heard of it before!).  Rimmae2's suggestion Police General Hospital also seems like a good alternative.

Lertsin is a tall, thin hospital at the far end of Silom towards the Oriental end.  It is not prominent. Most people have driven past it hundreds of times without realising it was there.

It is just a tick the box issue.  Any government hospital.

Re lawyers. This suits some busy applicants for whom time is money, if they can find one of the few law firms that can actually add value in this area. Most people, however, will find it better and cheaper to do it themselves or have a secretary or some other Thai helper to assist them. 

3 hours ago, rimmae2 said:

Re the following from SteveB2, thankfully I don't need the opinion as I have had PR for many years and I think what is stated it is an exaggeration, which could deter people who could meet the requirements. How does the OP consider that the factors in all areas are quantified and does the opinion apply to a country from which there are less than 100 applicants?

 

"PR application – actual requirements

From chats with other successful PR applicants at CW, it is apparent that that one should aim to beat the minimum published PR requirements by a factor of at least 2-3 in all areas. If you are struggling to meet most of the published requirements, then it is likely best to give up now and get on with your life."

The bar for PR is higher on many issues than it is citizenship.  I don't know if they routinely reject PR applicants for not being over 2-3 times the requirements but it is certainly not the case for citizenship which is handled by the same part of the Interior Ministry as PR.  One of Special Branch police captains in the citizenship section once told me that, at least at that time, they were frightened of being sued in the Administrative Court by applicants who met all the qualifications but were rejected out of hand.  So they were approving every one who met the qualifications, even though many untrue stories were put out ethat you wouldn't get approved, if you didn't have Thai children etc.  I know of a number of teachers who have got citizenship after only just making the 40k a month salary requirement.

The big difference is, of course, that the initial screening of PR applications is done by Immigration which assumes that all foreigners are guilty of something, unless irrefutably proved otherwise. Special Branch, which handles citizenship applications, takes a much more charitable view of its fellow (non-Thai) human beings.  When I applied for PR a police major general in Immigration told me they had been ordered to routinely reject all applicants working for a company with paid-up capital of under 5 million baht because they believed that were too many shell companies with 2 million baht capital set up by foreigners just to get a WP and rejecting them all saved a lot trouble investigating them.  Those rejected for this reason were not told the real reason and several kept on re-applying and being re-rejected. It didn't bother Immigration that this was both dishonest and inhumane 

11 hours ago, Misty said:

Anyone have suggestions of which government hospital to go to for the required medical certificate?  I've checked with Chula and apparently you have to queue from 5-5:30am in a general line and then wait until your number is called. There's no way to make an appointment.  I was told the process could take all day.

 

Any alternatives to Chula that might be less time consuming?  The requirement is for a Government hospital medical certificate within 90 days of application.  It looks like it is similar to medical certificates used for work permits, but can't come from a private hospital.

It is many years ago now but I went to Lertsin Hospital on Silom Road. I didn't have to wait at all but I think my secretary had made an appointment on the phone and organised a 500 baht express fee or something like that. The doctor didn't bother to do a proper medical or test for any of the diseases, except for syphilis.  He just asked, "You feeling OK today?" and immediately checked all the boxes to confirm I didn't have elephantiasis, TB, alcoholism etc.  I was out of there within about half an hour The result of he syphilis test was available later that day and I sent my driver to pick it up. He took great delight in announcing to the office that the boss didn't have syphilis. 

I wouldn't recommend going to a famous teaching hospital like Chula or Sirirat were there are long queues, since you don't need to see a renowned professor for this.  One of the lesser known government hospitals like Lertsin would be a better bet.

There was a scandal involving purchase of a new system for the electronic gates and Big Joke when he was still D-G of Immigration.  There was what must have been a related tender for production of new 10 year Thai passports that was originally supposed to be in full production in May 2019 but the bidding actually only took place then and nothing more has been heard of the new 10 year passports.

The electronic gates went down frequently in the past and more often than not couldn't read my fingerprints. An immigration officer told me that was quite normal and the scanners failed to read about 10% of people's fingerprints. It is unacceptable to me, since fingerprint readers on mobile phone can read prints 100% of the time.

I am still hopeful that a better system might be put in place one day but with all the corruption and efficiency involved in government procurement it will probably be a vain hope.

12 hours ago, onthemoon said:

It's just a guess, but I don't think they scanned any documents issued before the system went live. I do know that when they access the system now, all this data shows on the screen. I don't know when this started, though. 

You may be right but when I had to amend the details in residence book and alien book at CW, in 2010, they were able to dig out copies of the documents provided to apply for them 13 years earlier without about 20 minutes.  I can't say for sure they had been scanned but it is possible.  District offices have certainly scanned old documents.  When I had to get the details of my original tabien baan application from 1997, the officer showed me all the scanned documents relating to the application on the computer screen. However, I can see less reason for Immigration to want to maintain digital archives of old NON-B visa records, the vast majority of which will never be needed.