jbowman1993

Bowing to the mods stand on the issue, I will no longer refer to Thaksin's usual name characterization (a word starting with T and meaning - a poisonous substance), no matter how appropriate it might be. Instead I will give Mr. Thaksin the full measure of respect and honor he is due.

Former Prime Minister, Multiply Indicted and Convicted Felon, Fugitive from Justice, Murderer of Innocents, Thief of Country's Resources and Assets, Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra.

It is more clear in any event. Thank you to the mods for encouraging us to post clearly. It benefits all the members here.

So who would agree that Thaksins crimes justified a MILITARY COUPE?

A military coup can never be justified in a proper democracy.

Thaksin should have been removed from office by legitimate methods.

As nasty a man as Thaksin was the Thai military have a far worse record in Thai politics; dictatorships, coups, human rights abuses - the list goes on and on and on, throughout the last century.

But it is clear as ever that as Prem said a couple of years ago the Thai military only serve one master and it isn't the Government or the Thai people.

Same music, different tune.

Yes, lets rehash this some more...it hasn't been done enough yet.

how many TRT ministers ever resigned in all their years of office, despite the bird flu cover up, the human rights abuses and all the airport scandals?

Fair enough. Then how many Democrat MPs will we expect to honourably resign as a result of the human rights abuses of the Thai military towards the Rohigyna boat people conducted already, just a month in on their watch or how many will resign in responsibility of the airport protest and consequent shutdown which involved nothing less than a current minister in the Government and resulted in incalculable loss to the nation, in both financial terms and reputation?

Let's see ... MP's resigning over a screw up? The Demos already have had one resign over the fish ...

As i do not know anything about the GOVERNMENT ordering the murders of 2600+ people yet like we saw in Thaksin's reign of terror ... it looks as if you are comparing apples to ... sour grapes?

I would say that with the situation in the world economy deteriorating so rapidly, we all better pull together. So, lets get Charlerm in there as PM. He'll be the savior of Thailand, surely!

Yeah, I would drink to if I spent all my time complaining about a 4 year old coup lol

Will he return for Justice, Maybe he is a bit of a hard head. Guess it is wait and see. Mr Abhisit has BALLS to Challegen the Big Guy, Bring it ON Big BOSS>

I would say the days of referring to T as the big boss are long past. Thailand has only ever had one big boss.

how many TRT ministers ever resigned in all their years of office, despite the bird flu cover up, the human rights abuses and all the airport scandals?

Fair enough. Then how many Democrat MPs will we expect to honourably resign as a result of the human rights abuses of the Thai military towards the Rohigyna boat people conducted already, just a month in on their watch or how many will resign in responsibility of the airport protest and consequent shutdown which involved nothing less than a current minister in the Government and resulted in incalculable loss to the nation, in both financial terms and reputation?

Let's see ... MP's resigning over a screw up? The Demos already have had one resign over the fish ...

As i do not know anything about the GOVERNMENT ordering the murders of 2600+ people yet like we saw in Thaksin's reign of terror ... it looks as if you are comparing apples to ... sour grapes?

I would say that with the situation in the world economy deteriorating so rapidly, we all better pull together. So, lets get Charlerm in there as PM. He'll be the savior of Thailand, surely!

Abhisit has done more in 2 months than the PPP did in 12 months. Most good, some bad. Stimulus bill, ASEAN revival, securing the red line loan, renewing the confidence of the rest of the world. So nice to have a semi-competent person in charge.

Or perhaps you would rather have Charlerm guiding us through this rocky time.... Someone? Anyone? Yeah, I thought so.

So who would agree that Thaksins crimes justified a MILITARY COUPE?

A military coup can never be justified in a proper democracy.

Thaksin should have been removed from office by legitimate methods.

As nasty a man as Thaksin was the Thai military have a far worse record in Thai politics; dictatorships, coups, human rights abuses - the list goes on and on and on, throughout the last century.

But it is clear as ever that as Prem said a couple of years ago the Thai military only serve one master and it isn't the Government or the Thai people.

Same music, different tune.

Yes, lets rehash this some more...it hasn't been done enough yet.

Considering the inept source (an indicted and convicted felon), I would say this is actually a ringing endorsement of the new stimulus package. Anything that PTP and Thaksin don't like, is probably good for the country.

So you fully endorse Keynesian style pump priming and deficit budgets as a way to cure recessions? As you have planted your flag in this camp please expand citing successful examples where this has worked to illuminate the less economically literate of us. I appreciate many governments are now doing this, but is it for short term political or long term economic gain?

Don't you feel a bit silly asking an economic question to a musician? If I was any good at that, I would have chosen a profession that pays better. My camp is "anti-idiot". The TRT aka PPP aka PTP aka Thaksinistas are pretty much all idiots (if you disagree, please give us some examples of the quality people who we can rally around). Therefore I am against them. Give the other guys a chance is as good an answer as any, at this point.

...compare Thaksin (and Obama for that matter) to Abh(ph)isit. The first two were pumping out real policies that led to real differences from the moment they got into office. Admittedly Thaksin's policies always had a self-enriching aspect as well. But my point is they are real politicians. Anyone can see Abhisit is floundering. What real initiatives has he started working on? It's beginning to look like he is nothing but a pretty face. He's had years in opposition to formulate his policy ideas.

Exactly what I said weeks ago - just a pretty face, like Tony Blair in '97. (Except Blair actually won an election because of his pretty face.)

What? So because Abhisit hasn't personally ordered the shooting of thousands, transferred millions of dollars to his maids bank account or started transferring family members to key positions in his first month in office he's not a "real" politician like Thaksin was? Abhisit has been quietly getting on with business, talking to foreign leaders, passing the ASEAN bill. Already his government have done more than the PPP mob ever did. Yes, there was a rotten fish scandal, but the goverment accepted responsibility, despite it being the suppliers fault, and the minister resigned - how many TRT ministers ever resigned in all their years of office, despite the bird flu cover up, the human rights abuses and all the airport scandals?

Ballpoint - can't reason or use logic with this bunch of parrots. They just plug their ears and scream "LALALALLALALA" as loud as they can.

Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest (assh@le, corrupt traitor, etc) ?

Considering the inept source (an indicted and convicted felon), I would say this is actually a ringing endorsement of the new stimulus package. Anything that PTP and Thaksin don't like, is probably good for the country.

in this respect you do as its thai 'by birth'

Being Thai by birth does not mean you have to be born in Thailand. Two Thai nationals living abroad can secure citizenship for a newborn child, and they easily meet that qualification. Again, this thread is complete bs, because the OP's assertion is wrong. Lets let it die a peaceful death.

2 seconds of research revealed that "he who must not be named, but who we all love" is the Royal Patron of the Bangkok Rotary Club. I think that says it all.

I was reading my RSS and was surprised to see a story coming out of Taiwan

TAIPEI (Reuters) – An American-born caucasian is running for Taiwan's parliament next month, a first for the island, to fill a seat. Robin Winkler, a Taipei-based lawyer, environmental activist and Taiwan citizen since 2003, would be the first caucasian to run for parliament in Taiwan, which is 98 percent ethnic Chinese and 2 percent aboriginal. Any Taiwan citizen can run for parliament regardless of birthplace, an election official said. Winkler, a fluent Chinese speaker who has lived in Taiwan since 1977 and became a local citizen in 2003, renouncing his U.S. nationality, said he would run in the March 28 election either with Taiwan's Green Party or on his own.

Ok, that's something, but it shows that if one respects local laws and adapts, one can become part of the process. So I had a look and wondered if a farang that had integrated into Thailand, taking Thai citizenship, could ever aspire to be part of the country and to contribute to the government? After all, the definitive statement of acceptance is if an immigrant is allowed to run for public office. I had a look at the law in Thailand; age: at least 25 years old - Thai citizenship by birth

The law also makes a specific reference to "deaf and dumb persons". In the old days, that ignorant expression referred to the deaf and mute.

Well, isn't that special. One has to be Thai by birth to have a chance at running for the house of Representatives. A flagrant denial of human rights if ever there was one, as it discriminates on the basis of national origin. It also discriminates against those with a disability that can be adapted for. A quick comparison to other countries shows that Thailand is in the minority on this.

Philippines: age: 18 years - Philippine citizenship

Vietnam: age: 21 years - Vietnamese citizenship

Cambodia: age: 25 years - Cambodian citizenship

China: age: 18 years - Chinese citizenship

Laos: - age: 21 years - Lao citizenship

Burma: No representation

Malaysia: age: 21 years - Malaysian citizenship

Source: http://www.ipu.org/english/home.htm

That to me says it all. If you are not born in Thailand or that if you are hearing and voice impaired, you can not belong, nor will you ever be allowed to belong. Such a position then becomes ingrained in everything the government does in respect to foreigners that immigrate. It then trickles down into the attitudes extended to expats.

No matter how much the apologists want to joke it off or say who wants to run for office anyway (I'm also waiting for the deaf and dumb comments about the politicos), this really is an affront. The eligibility law is blatant discrimination. If a foreigner, no matter how fluent in Thai, no matter how long residing in Thailand, no matter how loyal and no matter how adapted, is denied this basic civil right, what does it say about the country? The message I take away, is that in the eyes of Thailand, no matter how good a citizen you are, you are not good enough. To say otherwise is to deny the reality.

I can't wait for someone to justify the Thai position, keeping in mind that if their home country tried to do that, there would be a human rights case before the homeland national courts.

This whole thread is bullsh*t, because the OP's premise is wrong. This is taken from the 2007 Thai Constitution - no deaf or dumb clause. Just a whole lot of hot air from the OP.

CHAPTER VI

The National Assembly

Part 1

General Provisions

Section 101. A person having the following qualifications has the right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(1) being of Thai nationality by birth;

(2) being not less than twenty five years of age on the election day;

(3) being a member of any and only one political party for a consecutive period of not less than ninety days up to the date of applying for candidacy in an election, or being a member of any and only one political party for a consecutive period of not less than thirty days up to the date of applying for candidacy in an election in the case where the general election is conducted on account of the dissolution of the House of Representatives;

(4) a candidate in an election on a constituency basis shall also possess any of the following qualifications:

(a) having his name appear in the house register in Changwat where he stands for election for a consecutive period of not less than five years up to the date of applying for candidacy;

( being born in Changwat where he stands for election;

© having studied in an education institution situated in Changwat where he stands for election for a consecutive period of not less than five academic years;

(d) having served in the official service or having had his name appear in the house register in Changwat where he stands for election for a consecutive period of not less than five years;

(5) a candidate in an election on a proportional basis shall also possess any of the qualifications under (4) but the reference to Changwat therein shall means a group of Changwat;

(6) other qualifications as prescribed in the organic law on election of members of the House of Representatives and acquisition of senators.

Section 102. A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(1) being addicted to narcotics;

(2) being bankrupt or having been dishonestly bankrupt;

(3) being disfranchised under section 100 (1), (2) or (4);

(4) having been sentenced by a judgement to imprisonment and being detained by a warrant of the Court;

(5) having been discharged for a period of less than five years on the election day after being sentenced by a judgement to imprisonment except for an offence committed through negligence;

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

(7) having been ordered by a judgement or an order of the Court that his assets shall vest in the State on the ground of unusual wealth or an unusual increase of his assets;

(8) being a government official holding a permanent position or receiving salary except a political official;

(9) being a member of a local assembly or a local administrator;

(10) being a senator or having been a senator who vacates office for a period of less than two years;

(11) being an official or employee of a government agency, State agency or State enterprise or other State official;

(12) being a judge of the Constitutional Court, an Election Commissioner, an Ombudsman, a member of the State Audit Commission or a member of the National Human Right Commission;

(13) being under the prohibition from holding a political position under section 263;

(14) having been removed from office by the resolution of the Senate under section 274.

Thread should be closed

One of the real KEY differences between the Democrats and everybody else. They show responsibility for their actions, and the actions of those under them. This is something that TRK aka PPP aka PTP could never understand, and it is the big reason that the Democrats will succeed will the former ultimately failed (over and over again).

I gave a lecture to my students today about being a professional, and we discussed three key areas: ethics, integrity, and responsibility. Very classy Witoon. Cheers to you!

Embattled Minister Witoon quits

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 3/02/2009 at 01:25 PM

Social Development and Human Security Minister Witoon Nambutr's resignation may set an example for another embattled minister, Deputy Interior Minister Boonjong Wongtrairat, to follow in his footstep.

Embattled Witoon Nambutr has resigned as social development and human security minister to show responsibility regarding the distribution of rotten tinned fish to flood victims in Phatthalung.

Mr Witoon announced his resignation after today’s cabinet meeting. He said the resignation is intended to make way for various committees to check transparency of the distribution of flood relief items and hope this would not affect the Democrat party and the government’s handling of the country’s administration.

He said he decided to resign on his own, not because of pressure from anyone.

His resignation will spare Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva the trouble of having to axe him from the cabinet. It will also set an example for Deputy Interior Minister Boonjong Wongtrairat who is facing a scandal for handing out cash with his name cards to 200 villagers in Khon Kaen. Boonjong however has refused to step aside whereas his Bhumjaithai party has vowed to shield him from getting axed.

Mr Witoon's vacant post is likely to be filled by Issara Somchai, another Democrat MP in Ubon Ratchathani, as the post is regarded as a quota of the Democrat's northeastern bloc.

Jatuporn Prompan, a Puea Thai MP, said earlier that even if Mr Witoon resigns the opposition would still seek a censure debate against the government.

In a related development, Deputy Transport Minister Prajak Klaewklahan, a Bhumjaithai MP and member of the Friends of Newin faction, said Deputy Interior Minister Boonjong Wongtrairat would comply with the law if the Election Commission and the National Anti-Corruption Commission rules that he was wrong in attaching his name card to the money handed out to 200 people under a welfare project of the Social Development and Human Security Ministry.

Mr Prajak said Mr Boonjong has insisted he had not done anything wrong and the party wants to give him a chance to clear himself.

However, the party would not make any political move if Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva decides to reshuffle the cabinet, he added.

A good tactical start by the Reds.

All they need is for folk to think they might do the same as the Yellows, and it can have the same effect.

Who will be booking flights to Bangkok for March/April while this is in play?

Last night the missus and I went to Khao San Road for dinner and drink. The place was packed with tourists, wall to wall. If the tourists are staying away, it certainly doesn't show.

We left at 10, running immediately into the Red shirt parade on Ratchadamnoen Road. While I can be considered to have pro-government sympathies, I have to say that the red shirts were well behaved, and quite polite. They had people directing traffic to less congested routes, and the majority looked to be older men, women and student types. No crazy behavior (except coming from the loudspeakers), and as I sat in my truck while the waves of red shirts walked by, I never felt the least bit afraid or uncomfortable (despite the fast that I think they are all wrong, lol).

Since Koo was providing blow by blow accounts of last nights activities, I can safely assume that she wasn't there. (And I was - oh the Irony!!!!)

Enter the - "he'll never serve a day" brigade...

"Lets work together to find a way through the darkness, and hopefully on to a brighter day tomorrow."

Thanks JFK !

JLB actually.

Some of the stuff in this thread is so far from reality. I spent a few months until late December interviewing the redshirts in CM, photographing them, accompanying them on various demos.

The vast majority are a bunch of normal peace-loving folk who feel hard done by, following all the political legal etc shenanigans. PAD stand and stood for a removal of a sizeable proportion of the right to vote from the 'unworthy uneducated peasants', and somewhat unsurprisingly, said peasants (who may well be in the majority should there ever be another election) could well be tempted to kick the present government out (again).

Of course the Democrats are doing their best to buy their way out of trouble with policies aimed at supporting the poorer echelons of Thai society, but should that be seen to fail, I reckon it'll be a loooooong wait before new elections are held - unless a new constitution is introduced before then, with elected members only retaining say 30% of decision-making powers, the remainder going to 'appointees'. That's PAD's wish, and you can be sure that it's the wish of a number of pressure groups behind the scenes too.

On the monastery thing, there was a lot of resentment a long time before Xmas in the red camp about the rather blatant political allegiances of a certain temple in CM.

With fair and balanced reporting like that, you must work for Fox News.

Reality is that most of the common folk associated with the red and yellow movements are just trying to correct what they see as excesses of the other side. Thaksin and his cronies unmasked corruption vrs the Royalists and the Thai "Elite". Unfortunately, movements such as this attract extreme elements and individuals, which is why violence is unavoidable. These idiots would be killing and beating each other for some other reason. The current one is just an excuse.

These threads have become almost unbearable in their polarity. If the threads keep getting out of hand, in a virtual, no consequences, no benefit environment like TV, imagine how hard the polarity will be to solve in the real world, where it affects real people with real problems.

For myself, despite the obvious imperfections of the current administration, I admire how they have tried to address many of the issues that have been delayed by the months of political uncertainty. I hope that they have the stability to govern for a time, so that Thailand may enjoy some peace and (relative in this current economic climate) prosperity.

Is there anyone here who can honestly say that they would rather have Charlerm in power, as the PM, at this point in time? Because that is your only other choice. With the exception of a few fanatics, i think most thoughtful caring people would reject that choice. Lets put aside these red vrs yellow debates. No one will ever win, and it just serves to make people more angry and frustrated. Lets work together to find a way through the darkness, and hopefully on to a brighter day tomorrow.

Red shirts threaten to blockade Government House on Saturday

BANGKOK: -- The red-shirt crowd on Tuesday filed two demands and threatened to lay seige on Government House by Saturday, coinciding with a mass rally at Sanam Luang.

One of the two demands is that the government takes prompt legal action against leaders of the People's Alliance for Democracy responsible for airports closure at Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi.

-- The Nation 2009-01-27

That is a reasonable demand. If the government is truly committed to the reconciliation process, swift justice against the PAD for their crimes needs to happen. what crimes ? things like this for a start http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbnFPhExOTw keep your eye out for the trigger happy padster in the beginning

Blockading government house was wrong when the yellow idiots did it, and it will be wrong if the red idiots do it. Aren't people tired of all this bullshi%t?

Lol, apparently you didn't hear that Mr. T is down to his last 5 million per year. To a guy like that, its comparable to being flat broke. You've noticed the sizes of the red shirt crowds shrinking all the time? No money, no honey!

I go back in my office.

good bye.

Fox

Believe all you want. Just do it quietly, for the sake of the country. Your red shirt friends have decided to start hitting monks with foot clappers. Care to defend that O?

i like people like you.

You read only a part of one post and then you said your funny ending of the story.

Or you like flame someone for fight . for lose time.....i think you have so much and you are bored...

Is the last time i try to show the "TRUTH" after that i never answer i live you in your World'

Ok Look 4 post before this and read what i write...i repeat for you:

"PS: im not interessed in politics, i never be friend whit Mr.t and i dont care about him for nothings"

I write that in the post that flame you agaist me or not?

Can you understand that?( if not i try to write in better english).

Now can be friends?

PS: if i dont understand why some people hate thaksin, and i ask why, dont mean I LIKE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I dont care about so I ASK WHY YOU HATE HIM SO MUCH! for understand!!!!!!!

Now please live quite i have a report from Cupertino about some strange fact....UFO or not UFO????

You will know in the next episode" Red is everywere around us".

I notice you didn't answer my question, lol.

jbowman/josky

I don't think MOST Thais are too well versed in the Santi Asoke movement but in many instances the government has not been too kind to them. (They are a strict vegetarian movement that ordains female monks and is led by a controversial leader .. they are not a part of the Thai sangha and their dogma is not strictly orthodox though they certainly present it as such.) They are an interesting group, I have studied at Pathom Asoke for a weekend retreat and found them very interesting!

Thanks for the info JD! I learned something new there as well. I agree that most Thais probably don't know much about the movment. All they'll hear and see is "redshirts are hitting monks with foot clappers", which is why its safe to say, the end is near for that movement.

I go back in my office.

good bye.

Fox

Believe all you want. Just do it quietly, for the sake of the country. Your red shirt friends have decided to start hitting monks with foot clappers. Care to defend that O?