nellyp

The latest twist in this long running saga is a great one. After taking advice and applying to change my son's name in the UkKby deed poll, I received the deed poll and sent the consent latter to my wife to sign only discover a little caveat on the instructions on how to use the deed poll. Apparently, as my son is applying for the new passport outside the UK, the deed poll needs to be signed by myself and witnessed in Thailand. Meaning i will need to fly to Thailand to sort this out.

It is increasingly looking like I am going to have to get my son home with his Thai passport and a tourist visa, then try to sort this out in the UK.

This really is becoming the most complicated thing I have ever had to do

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You have to do it in persson. They have to witness your signature and notarize it.

Yeah. I have already looked into where to stay tube journey etc...nightmare, but has to be done

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They will not be able to leave the country without new passports. 

You could  do a letter of consent at the embassy in London. Then send it so they could apply for the passports.

I will ca ll the Thai embassy in London later today about the consent letter. I am really hoping they can send me one rather than having to travel all the way to London. Surely they could email me the letter of consent as I would need to get it to my wife in Thailand anyway.

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Why not get them Thai passports whilst in Thailand and then use those to leave?

They have Thai passports, but they have expired

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I assume the Thai Embassy issued the ETD's.

If they were stamped into the country on the ETD they would show it along with their Thai passports on departure.

Yes. The Thai Embassy in London issued the ETD's, but their current Thai passports have expired. I assume I will need to get them new Thai passports to leave the country. Unfortunately I am not in Thailand at the moment and I have to sign to say they can have new passports apparently

When my sons first arrived in Thailand we were given emergency travel documents to fly over from the UK (They didn't have Thai passports only British).

Now they are leaving, will they be required to show the original documents shown when entering (they have not been out of the country since) i.e. emergency travel documents, or should they show their latest Thai passport (with no stamps in) or both? They will have/never have had a visa in their passports, though I believe immigration want to see when and how they arrived in Thailand as they have dual nationality.

Any help would be appreciated

Ceers

Out of interest i thought I would show you this email from the passport office too. As you can see there is no mention of changing the UK name by deed poll, though it does mention proof from th eother country. This is why I have asked the British Embassy to supply me with information about where this evidence is available as they seem to know it. The bottom part about "own merit" is frightening in the extreme. Too many variables that could go again'st you

Thank you for your enquiry regarding your son's passport.
 

Customers who hold a foreign passport in a name which differs to the British Passport application must align this before applying for their UK passport.

HMPO is aware that this may not be possible for citizens of some countries due to laws prohibiting changes of name.

You should submit evidence from the authorities of the relevant country to confirm the name on the foreign passport cannot be changed.

If no such letter can be provided, you should set this out in writing and HM Passport office will consider each case on its own merits.
 

Thank you,
 

Customer Service E-Mail Team

Here is a reply I have had off the British Embassy in BKK. I have asked them where I can find the rule that states this about the middle names as I was asked to supply this for the passport office, and have not been able to get anybody to point me to this rule/law

Dear Mr Neil,

Thank you for contacting consular section at British embassy Bangkok dating 3 March 2018.

Further to your email, for Thai people you are only allow to have one middle name. since the name on UK birth certificate have two middle names. It would cause him the difficulty in confirm his identity. You may consider change the name by deed poll. This is because one person supposed to have the same name no matter wherever they live. If your son going to travel to the UK he will also need to Thai passport in order to leave the country. And if the name not match he won’t be able to leave the country.

I’m really sorry but the only solution that you have at the moment is to change your son name.

Yours Sincerely,

Vee

here is an update. i am going to have to change his name in the UK by deed poll. Luckily this is not as complicated as I first thought as it does not have to be an enrolled deed poll for a passport.

However. It now transpires that as my son's Thai passport has run out, they will not give him a new passport unless I am there to sign. There is (apparently) a consent form I can send (there is mention of it on the TMFO website with a clickable link that does nothing), but I am having no luck tracking that down, and I am unsure if it can be notorized (as requested) in the UK or whether that has to be done in Thailand. This I will need to do for both of my sons, so I am hoping the one form will suffice.

If anybody has experience of this I would be grateful for any pointers

Just looking at the deed poll application. This also becomes complex as I am in the Uk and the wife is in Thailand, but we both need to have documents signed by a solicitor and have witnesses for the forms. This could take me months to organise

Nightmare

On 3/1/2018 at 4:01 AM, OJAS said:

In that case, I would strongly suggest that you set out the issues with which you are faced by completing the HMPO enquiry form referred to in the link which I posted in #47 above. Far better, I think, to get a definitive view from HMPO on this point in writing, rather than relying on what they tell you over a crackly phone line from the UK.

 

However, if HMPO, for their inscrutable reasons, stand their ground on this issue, then the only course of action which would appear to be open to you would be to seek a formal renouncement of your son's middle name(s) in the UK by following the procedure set out at https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-poll/change-a-childs-name. I quite accept that you and your son's mother would almost certainly view such a course of action as unpalatable in principle - quite apart from the considerable effort and expense to which you would be put in achieving it - but I fear that this might prove to be the only way of meeting but one of a number of pointlessly stupid bureaucratic requirements which HMPO have chosen to inflict on those renewing their UK passports from Thailand in recent times.

Thank you very much for this. I have sent off the enquiery form and I am looking into the deep poll suggestion. It real;y is beyond belief that I may need to change his name to simply get him back into the country, when his British passport has his full name. We are already supplying proof of ID through a counter signature, and can supply photos of him growing up and changing appearance etc. It is even further beyond belief that the Thai authorities will not simply give us a letter stating the rules that will not allow us to change his name on the Thai documents. Do they even have such a thing as deed poll in Thailand? After all people seem to change their names in Thailand and even my wife does not have the name she was born with

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

I therefore find it puzzling as to how you managed to get your son's middle name included in his British passport, bearing in mind that the certified English translation of his birth certificate which you presumably had to provide in support of the application you made on his behalf didn't include it either, I take it!

This was because we had a British birth certificate as my son was born in the UK. Therefore no translation was necessary. The complication has arisen (I believe) because they refused to put 2 middle names on the Thai certificate. They have now refused to alter his tabien baan at the Ampur so I have to write a letter to the passport office explaining all this with no confirmation from the Ampur or the Thai passport office as they will not write letters stating that they have refused to amend anything or even confirm that the Thai rules are not letting them alter his passport or tabian baan

2 hours ago, samran said:

My Thai passport has my two middle names on it. It reflects what is written on my Thai birth certificate and Thai ID card. 

When we did the birth certificate for my son they would not let me put 2 middle names on the certificate. They made me choose 1. As we used the birth certificate for his Thai passport, perhaps that was where things got messed up 

13 hours ago, nellyp said:

I rang them up yesterday. they said I would need a letter from the Thai Embassy or Passport office stating that it is the truth that the passport office would not put 2 middle names on the passport. Looks like this is going to get complicated

 

Embassy will not give me a letter and said passport office won' to either. I have to change the name on the tabian ban and get a new passport. No idea how British passport office will look at all this. I have to show all passports. Now he will have 2 Thai passports with different names 

57 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Might be worth your while seeking clarification from HMPO in the UK on this point.

Contact info is here: https://www.gov.uk/passport-advice-line

I rang them up yesterday. they said I would need a letter from the Thai Embassy or Passport office stating that it is the truth that the passport office would not put 2 middle names on the passport. Looks like this is going to get complicated

My son's name on his Uk passport has 2 middle names, but the Thai passport only allows for 1. Do you think this will be a problem? As his British birth certificate shows 2 middle names I do not see how I can alter that, and it seems impossible to get his Thai passport altered as they do not allow the 2 middle names.

Sorry if I am hijacking this topic, but I am also trying to work out my approach to affordability.

I have returned to the UK to work while I build up 6 months of income to show immigration for my wife's settlement visa, but would like my family to come over and stay for as long as possible before my wife returns to Thailand to complete the application.

Though I can show enough money in our joint account in Thailand for travel and some spending money and have a few thousand in the bank for over here, I want my wife to be here for around 4 months. Is it possible to show that I have enough extra income to support my family (we will stay with my nephew) from my actual wages? I earn more than the minimum income required to pass affordability for immigration, but I have only recently started this job.

My wife will be bringing my sons with her (they have UK passports and were born in the UK), so do we also need to declare them on the application or is it only my wife that I need to show I can support?

We will not be treating this as a holiday, but as a family visit to spend time together. Therefore I would simply be declaring expenditure on food and day to day living (though I have no idea how I am going to figure out what that amount should be.

Thanks in advance for any help

34 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Not if their parents had done the business, or received the credits 555555 because parents MUST OBVIOUSLY pay in lieu of their children attaining such age and employment status

Simple really

Unless you are advocating child labour, only joking honest

Yes I am on the hard side no doubt with ten years but the pot is empty

I agree...the pot is empty. Is it not equally true that i may have been paying in Lieu of my wife if I didn't have children thoug?. A pretty circular argument I suppose. If I have to pay more for my wife ( who has already paid 6 years worth) then so be it. I have no problem paying the contribution necessary as I believe we all should. Though it does make finance more difficult

On 2/5/2018 at 12:00 PM, oldlakey said:

My reasons are my justification, everything needs to be paid for

They are not  paying TWICE for anything where do you get the idea that the NI payment or tax is for the NHS only

The NHS is under a fair amount of pressure

Build up a reservoir of money then draw out of the pot, until such time insurance is the way to go as far as the NHS is concerned

Tax you get the use of the same benefits immediately as all other tax payers, security etc etc 

NI contributions will get you a pension if you make enough of them the minimum amount per year is not a tremendous amount of money even now

Everything has to be paid for even the local council services, which you will either pay via rent or direct to the local council

Move to a first world Nanny State and you can reap the benefits but at a price

 

Does this mean that British citizens who have just started work should also have private medical insurance for 10 years as they have not contributed. Their parents may have paid, but they will have paid for themselves. I agree there must be some payment, but I think your reasoning is slightly off

10 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said:

See my above posts.

Thanks. It will be interesting when people can see how long the process takes. It should help people like me make a decision. I can't help but feel that the most imortantthing is to make sure all the paperwork is presented and in the correct format. Something I have been wondering about is the request for A4 paperwork. Do they mean completely filling an A4 sheet or just printed in original size on A4 paper?

I apologise for any confusion I may have caused. The service I am asking about is, in fact, called the priority service. My wife is applying for a settlement (spouse) visa.

I have attached a letter from UK Visa and Immigration to show you what I am considering

I am planning my wife's visa application and I am considering the premium service

Has anybody used this and is it actually faster? What are the time frame differences?

My wife will apply in BKK and has been told she simply pays for the service when she goes for her biometrics scan. Will she get a number or receipt to prove she has paid? I understand that if she does this I will need to mark on the documents I send that the service has been paid for (which is no problem), but I am a bit confused how they would not know that from putting in her reference number for the application.

If anybody could give me their experience of any premium srevice applications they have made or any advise I would be most grateful.

Cheers

You are right... she thinks too much. Though to be honest that thinking has saved some problems in the past. My only concern now is the amount of time the passport will take to process as it is a non-uk signature

Cheers

Thanks for the replies. I read the government link last night, but my wife is concerned that my teacher friend (from U.S. is not qualified to teach in his country but is a legit teacher in Thailand. My worry now is that she may be correct. I am also worried that the Gov site says that it will make the process longer.

Any thoughts?

After some research it looks like I have to use a citizen of the UK, EU or The States who is a responsible person. Do you think I can use a teacher (please no puns about responsibility) who has a work permit but no certification from their home country?