AussieBob18

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I'm no scientist, but that was my opinion since about 1 month, so it seems that by now, the world is ruled by the WHO.

Who put them in charge, i would really like to know.

Btw, just read an Italian article, where doctors working on the front line say that covid patients treated with ventilators have 80% mortality. Almost like a firing squad, just saying.

I agree. And I do not think that WHO will ever be allowed to take over ever again.

Italy has some very high numbers, but they have the same type of numbers as the rest of the world. The vast majority of deaths are people over 60 - with the median by far being those over 80.  Speculation of course but several reasons likely.  High rate of smokers and drinkers in that age group (it was the way of life back then), and high population density with a lot of older people sharing housing with many younger family members. Studies show Italy has a high rate of deaths from flu each year (24K in 2017) and that their mortality rate from the flu is much higher than in other European countries.  Same for Spain is speculated.

3 minutes ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Can you give an example of any virus where herd immunity has been successful without vaccination? Are you also assuming that immunity is permanent? And if so why? Or otherwise how long are you assuming immunity will be for those who have had mild cases?

Every year.  Influenza viruses (all of them) die down when enough of the herd has been infected and develops immunities.

Immunity is permanent until you get older or a sickness that weakens your immunity system itself (like HIV).

The swine flu in 2009 killed a lot more under 60s (percentage wise) than any other virus had ever done. They believe that this was because that virus was very similar to a pandemic virus from the 1950s and people that were infected back then had immunities that helped them attack and defeat the swine flu (they cant 'measure' immunities).

Once a virus has become latent/dormant it takes certain things for it to reappear - one of those is enough people who do not have the immunities so that it 'cvatches fire' so to speak - otherwise it burns out.  Sometimes they mutate and then they can resurface and start up again - and then again the herd develops immunities and stops it.

Think of it like this. Virus A is released into a room full of people who have previously been infected by it - it does out quickly. 

Virus B is released into a room full of people who have not previously been infected by it - it spreads very quickly. But if you keep everyone in the room, then 3 things will happen. 1. Some people get so sick they die (0.1%) 2. The rest deal with the infection and build up antibodies to it.  3. The virus dies out - becomes latent in some people (but unable to infect others).

TB is such a nasty thing because it remains latent for decades and it can then reappear and spread itself again.  Hep C seems to be the same too.  Herpes is the same but it doesn't make people sick enough to die (usually - about 0.000001%). And many others too.  One day hundreds of years from now they will have solved all this and cured cancer - maybe.

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3 minutes ago, chessman said:

It was not from WHO modelling. Many different organizations have done modelling. There is variation in the figures but almost all of them show the mortality rate is significantly higher than seasonal flu. To dispute that is to dispute the experts who have spent their whole lives studying this. It is disputing the kind of peer reviewed science and rational thinking that has built our civilization.

You proclaim loudly as often as you can that the numbers are clearly wrong. This is a red flag. Nobody can be sure about this, we are dealing with a very complex situation with things we don't fully understand. Just as some countries seem to be less affected (Australia, Thailand), some countries are worse affected (Spain, Italy). In such a situation it is natural and proper that governments are cautious.

 

I actually hope that you are correct. If this has been an over-reaction then we can get back to normal sooner. But any rational person looking at the figures could not be sure about this.

I am extremely confident that I am correct - my statements are based on what non-aligned experts are saying, and my own examination of the numbers - which I have been doing daily for months:  https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/situation-reports

Non-aligned experts are those who are 'allowed' to say they disagree - eg.  a CDC or WHO employee cannot.  Search for it using google. Avoid the conspiracy nutters of course - look for the gems - they are there and they are growing.

But you are wrong in assuming that if us skeptics are right then things can get back to normal quickly.  That will take the experts to admit they were wrong - unlikely mate - they will say social distancing was what stopped millions dying - despite the numbers in Sweden showing it makes no difference.  To get back to normal is going to take a fight - people will have to demand their Govt lets them go back to work/school.  Mate - they are arresting people who walk along the beaches in USA - in UK a couple were fined for being in their front yard.  

11 minutes ago, HashBrownHarry said:

You need to calm down.

Hope i don't catch what you have!

Your comparison was wrong, deal with it.

I am very calm - laughing as I type this. The wife thinks you are funny too.

The comparison was about causes of death - and why the panic.  Covid causes far less deaths than lung cancer, car accidents, suicides, heart attacks, strokes, dementia, diabetes, etc etc etc.  Lung cancer doesnt even make the WHO top 10.  Why the total panic and worldwide shutdwown for something that will not make WHO's top 10?? TB has - take a look.

And you cannot catch skepticism - stupidity and panic is contagious - but not skepticism.

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Still does not answer the very clear questions I put to you. 

Google it yourself mate.

As the other bloke said - it is all over the internet - and twitter and facebook. 

The Dems and their Dem Admin in places like NY and Cal opposed Trump's ban and called him racist for restricting travel from China.  But he couldn't stop all the exempts returning after the Chinese New Year in China and bringing it back with them.

2 minutes ago, chessman said:

The response to COVID has been about  the potential of the virus to do damage. A highly contagious virus with a mortality rate high enough to kill millions and millions.

Wrong and Right.  You are right in that word 'potential' numbers is true.  The potential numbers were from the WHO modelling - which was wrong.  The mortality rate is showing itself to be no higher than seasonal flu - unless you are over 80 - and even then that number is less than SARS.  Over 100K were supposed to die in Australia. It will not reach 1000 - now at 61 - flu kills between 1500 and 3000 people every year in Aus.  Will you think social distancing saved more than 99,000 people? 

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 What insights would Ivanka bring to this committee?

You shouldn't talk about a future POTUS like that mate. 

7 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

I asked a poster to back up claims in their now removed post, they have failed to do so. 

I did provide the evidence - <snip> - but here is another one:

In powerful show of defiance of #coronavirus scare, huge crowds gathering in NYC's Chinatown for ceremony ahead of annual #LunarNewYear parade. Chants of "be strong Wuhan!" If you are staying away, you are missing out!

 

 

 

 

 

4:00 AM · Feb 10, 2020

Wonder why it is so bad in NYC?  Maybe because it has the biggest and most popular Chinatown in the world and the Dem politicians did a lot of PR for the parades?  And now those same Dems blame Trump for everything wrong.

5 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Nomen est omen, as they say:

 

CCCP = dude without shirt riding tigers

CCP = the fluffy bear fella

CP = owns Chailand

P = uncle

 

It's like having general stars, the more C's you got, the higher up you are.

And when China is done (if allowed) it will be as what Julius said:  veni vidi vici

6 hours ago, HashBrownHarry said:

You're comparing apples to oranges, lung cancer is not contagious.

OK then how about Tuberculosis?  WHO states that 1.5 million die annually from TB - some sources say it is actually 1.8 million. But even at 1.5 million, that is 125,000 per month. That is 28,846 per week. That is 4,120 per day.  But here is the BIGGY - TB has been killing people for a long time.   Over the last decade TB has killed at least 15 million people - probably a lot more.

So please tell me - where has  the panic been?  Why has the world been shut down for something that has killed 100K people, when there are worse things out there that have not caused such a massive over-reaction.  I will answer that.  Because they got the numbers totally wrong and they panicked. 

You think that TB is not as bad as Covid?  Wrong (and right) it is worse.

"Tuberculosis (TB) is caused by bacteria (Mycobacterium tuberculosis) that most often affect the lungs. Tuberculosis is curable and preventable. TB is spread from person to person through the air. When people with lung TB cough, sneeze or spit, they propel the TB germs into the air. A person needs to inhale only a few of these germs to become infected."

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

"Tuberculosis (TB) is a global disease, found in every country in the world. It is the leading infectious cause of death worldwide."

https://www.tballiance.org/why-new-tb-drugs/global-pandemic

"Tuberculosis kills three people a minute as case numbers rise"

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/oct/13/tuberculosis-killing-more-people-than-thought-who-tb-cases-death

How's them apples buddy??  Do you now understand??

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I just showed two official statistics.

How do you know if they are facts or not?

And how do you know that lots of other statistics from around the world are correct?

If we see lots of body bags and mass graves that's a pretty clear sign that there are lots of dead people.

If we see overcrowded hospitals that's a clear sign that many people are sick.

Where are the pictures with the overcrowded hospitals and the body bags from Thailand? Or are they all censored?

I find it always amazing how many "experts" here seem to know what is going on - and obviously without any evidence.

I have no idea what you are talking about mate - to me it is about as much sense as a dollar note. But I think maybe that you are saying that you and I know nothing - but then you say when you have an opinion on something it is more valid than mine or other people who have a different opinion?  Is that right?

And in answer - lots of people in Thailand die at home. One blokes wrote about how 3 people he knows of went to the hospital and were given pills and told to go home - and they did and they died. Probably lots of others too. 

6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

Some even pretend that education is the same.

Never understood/understand why the right wing didn't/don't do nothing about this.

They give the impression of being powerless and, excepting whining about it, just accepting it.

Too busy working or running a business?  We are called the silent majority, because we dont have the spare time that lefties have to form social groups - so we complain online when we get the time.  

“We expect the Covid-19 situation to be at a manageable level in the next few months, and domestic consumption could then return to normal."  I think that is true.

"The export sector could take a lot longer to recover, as the situation overseas is worse than in Thailand,”  I also think that is true, but it will be for a lot longer than the association thinks - and that is the same for all exports from Thailand.  Not just because the demand is down from Covid, but because the Baht has been too high for too long. Importers from other countries are struggling now, and when thigns open up they are going to be looking for savings going forward and Thailand products aint cheap any more. And I think China is going to be a bit too busy with 'other issues' to buy a lot of Thailand products to make up for the sdemand shortfall.

12 hours ago, Ron jeremy said:

What a great life u have, was this your dream growing up? 

Masks , hepa filters, exercising indoors.  

Of course your happy in chang rai, no need to try to convince us.

were all sold. 

Me thinks it is more about convincing himself (re-inforcing).

I once knew a man that was as happy as anyone I ever met - he was a car park attendent. But he was happy and cheerful every single day - for years - always.  We often chatted briefly as I gave him $2 and then later $5 to park for the day, as I went to my miserable office full of miserable people. Eventually I 'escaped' that hell hole and got a job where I was travelling most days - I loved it.  One day I was talking to someone that was still in that office many years later (sad). Apparently that car park attendent was a scam - the carpark was free !!  He was there so long that it was just assumed he was working for the Council.  Then one day he dissapeared and people started asking questions - the Council never heard of him ????  He was probably on the Govt dole (unemplyment money) and he was also getting the carpark money for himself - they reckoned he must have 'retired' and taken off - maybe he is one of you in Thailand ??  They reckoned he probably tried it for one day and people just paid up - so he kept it going for years - he had a uniform and everything.  He never took a holiday except for public holidays.  5 days a week - $500+ dollars a day - over $2500 a week - over $100K a year when the average salary was about $25K. There was a few people who were still there from when the building was first built - about 15 years !!  He must have made almost $2 million from that scam - and that was in the 80s and 90s - plus of course the Govt dole money.  No wonder he was so happy.  Happiness is like the Universe - it is all relative.

(apologies to whoever first wrote that story)  

11 hours ago, chessman said:

It is pretty shameful that the rest of the world kowtows to China and thus Taiwan is excluded from the WHO and many other international organisations. 

This all happened under Clinton. Up until then the USA strongly supported a seperate State for Taiwan and called it Taiwan. Clinton did a lot of bad things, but just like the last Dem POTUS he was seen as charasmatic and 'nice' by the media, and he was not often criticised.  That was when the Dems learned how to manipulate the media and people - get a charasmatic leader.  If Trump was banging/whatever an intern their outrage would have no limits. 

But back to Clinton - he supported China into the WTA (World Trade Ageement) and with that came a lot of 'mutual benefits' - and to China that included more support of their geopolitical aspirations - especially getting Taiwan back.

Just take a look at what was happening under Obama - China built 'islands' in the Sth China Sea and then claimed they 'owned and controlled' the waters around them.  Obama did nothing. Trump said '<deleted> off' sailed the 7th fleet straight through it, and declared China's claims as 'fake territtory' and vetoed acceptance in the UN.  And you have to look hard to find any media coverage about it all - I wonder wjhy that is ????

Many good things are going to come out of Covid19 - the biggest one is that the people of the world are realising that China is really a Communist State and that it is bad - very bad. The people are learning that China has been lying and cheating - and that they have been corrupting their own politicians and leaders for decades. 

China has millions of 'dissidents' in gaol - and at least 2 million have been 'executeed' or disappeared over the decades since Clinton paved the way for their acceptance into the World.  At least with USSR we all knew how bad they were.  China has conned and tricked the people of the world into believeing they are OK - by cheating the rules and corrupting the politicians and leaders. China is USSR under Stalin - but with a modern PR system and with billions of dollars for bribery and influence. China is not all about making cheap khrap for us - they are all about taking over SEAsia and extending their dominance - using the money they make from building all that cheap khrap for us.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29560533

On 3/25/2020 at 11:24 PM, Logosone said:

Ohhh to think all this could have been avoided if our governments had not just watched Wuhan but taken isolation action then.

None of this would have happened.

It's so infurating.

 

And it could have easily happened if Taiwan was recognised by WHO as a seperate State.  Very early in the piece Taiwan heard about a new infection in Wuhan, and knowing the CCP as they do, they sent in their own team to check it out.  Their own team saw it as it truly was and did not believe the CCP or Wuhan authorities.  Taiwan immediately implemented steps to protect its own citizens, and was the first country to ban in/out travel from China.  But the big thing is that Taiwan tried to warn WHO that CCP was lying, and the WHO ignored them - but at least WHO has stated that they are 'learning' and will do better in future. 

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/taiwan-has-a-similar-sized-population-to-australia-so-why-does-it-only-have-400-covid-cases-c-971542

Getting back to the deathmeters information - it is very clear that the initial modelling of how many would die from Covid were greatly over-estimated.  That is because they based it upon the death rates of those infected with the previous coronavirus' being SARS and MERS - which were 15-30%, and they estimated that Covid had a contagious rate higher that the seasonal flu.

The contagious rate has been shown to be about correct, but the mortality rate is way down on the initial estimates.  Of course those in control will say the mortality rate was reduced because of the lock-downs, but the numbers coming out of places that have not shut everything down are about the same as elsewhere (Sweden and India). But even then the real issue is next time.  The places that didn't lock-down too much and built up the 'herd immunity' will benefit greatly from their built up immunities when the Covid virus comes back again - and it will. 

Those that have hidden everyone away to avoid exposure will be going through the same thing again every time it makes a comeback.  And those thinking a vaccine is coming are greatly mistaken - they have been trying to develop vaccines for MERS and SARS for years and are not succeeding - unlike for the various seasonal flus, including the H1N1 (Swine ) flu pandemic of 2009/10. Coronavirus' are proving to be very difficult to develop a vaccine - like many other virus' such as Hep C, HIV/AIDS, Dengue etc.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/seeing-the-invisible/india-has-only-one-choice-anders-tegnells-swedish-approach/