dick dasterdly

17 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

That should be a vote winner. I can just see the headlines now: "Ex-armed forces unfit to stand for office."

Nah, the vote winner is you (on another thread) insulting leavers - as a result of two posts from a remainer - that you didn't realise was a remainer ????.

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

The post about Sunderland Brexiters went over most heads, sorry to say

 

I was trying to illustrate the point that the synaptically challenged STILL do not understand the issue!

 

We really need to revise the criteria for having the right to vote. Why should my vote count the same as people who know nothing. At all!! About anything!!

 

I know this sounds anti democratic but democracy assumes everyone has the same access to education and information.

 

These people are committing an act of self harm but they dont see it!

 

This is why we have representative democracy. Our MPs must decide.

 

Next time, be MUCH more careful in who you elect to be your MP.

I know you're just trying to wind people up, but try to keep it relatively reasonable....

"This is why we have representative democracy. Our MPs must decide." - when you have previously posted (possibly on another thread) that MPs are mostly unintelligent and also have little knowledge....

 

At the time the media was shouting 100 Billion, I saw a discussion programme with financial analysts including the EU, and what the media was reporting was the debt figure, when the refunds were calculated and taken into account the final figure was likely to fall between 25 and 50 billion.

I never saw TM answer any question on the refunds always sidestepped, obviously better to keep the people in the dark, looks good when you can say you got it down from 100 to 39.

But you said "She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest."

The UK owes the EU zero, particularly under her leave in name only 'deal' - so her agreeing to pay 39bn is yet another 'black mark' against her.

Which brings me back to why you said that "She had a very good reason for fending off any talk on refunds - self interest."

 

At the time the media was shouting 100 Billion, I saw a discussion programme with financial analysts including the EU, and what the media was reporting was the debt figure, when the refunds were calculated and taken into account the final figure was likely to fall between 25 and 50 billion.

I never saw TM answer any question on the refunds always sidestepped, obviously better to keep the people in the dark, looks good when you can say you got it down from 100 to 39.

It should be zero....  There is absolutely no reason for the UK to pay the EU 39 bn at all.

Even more ridiculous in view of her leave in name only 'agreement' with the EU!

6 minutes ago, tebee said:

it would appear TM's plan is to lose the vote in parliament the first time, they try again when using the threat of a no brexit to force it through. What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6451001/DAN-HODGES-Theresa-tell-MPs-Support-deal-quit.html

 

In other words, May is playing games trying to get her leave in name only 'deal' (......) accepted by MPs.

Of course most MPs are thinking along the same lines - but I doubt this ploy will work as well as she hopes amongst the electorate.

14 minutes ago, elliss said:

          Fantasy Farage ,  the pied piper leading  the fools. Remember the good old  days ,  Gbp, 45 baht . 

              Any one looked at the recent 5 year forecast for Gbp, not looking pretty.

????

Nobody is saying that it can't be voted on again in a few years time - just that it shouldn't be voted on again until after the referendum vote has been enacted!

Edit - For the sake of that insignificant 'thing' that we like to call democracy.....

Just now, Grouse said:

The Grouse season began on the glorious 13th of August because shooting on Sunday's is illegal as you will know. The season ends on 11 December so get your Purdey out now!

 

Nice to see you Brexiters still hurdles together for warmth ????

As do remainers.  But to be fair, even remainers aren't likely to 'like' a post that is devoid of any argument other than an insult or proclamation of self-perceived superiority.

2 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Oh come on. Don't tell me you still think Brexit is a sensible idea. You're joking right?

Compared to what is happening now?  Yes, undoubtedly.

Hind sight is a wonderful thing, but article 50 should have been invoked immediately after the vote.  I say this, as at the time I posted that there were good reasons for delaying a few months.

I freely admit that I was wrong.

May agreed with the EU's ridiculous 'negotiating agenda' - which was the first indication that she had no interest in genuinely leaving, despite her protestations otherwise....

She then said 'no deal is better than a bad deal' - and this is pretty much the worst deal possible!

If she was serious, she would have started preparations for 'no deal' - but she didn't....

Meanwhile, project fear continues unabated in the desperate hope that they can force another referendum in which voters will be cowed into voting 'their' way.

It didn't work last time, and I hope it doesn't work this time.

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Quote from the link.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/the-mistakes-that-led-to-brexit-a-1240126.html

 

""We have to live with this the longest time," says Matilda. "But nobody asked us." She was 15 years old when a narrow majority of her compatriots voted to try their luck outside of the European Union. Several members of Matilda's family voted for Brexit. But "not everybody understood what they were voting for," she says."

 

Without trying to be patronising, exactly the same could and was said about the referendum of 1975, and we older people have lived with that for 43 years so far. Many of us have waited until 2016 to correct that mistake.

 

We voted then for our families and our unborn children and for the UK but we too were lied to by politicians who did know the truth about the EU at that time.

 

At that time there were few computers, little or no internet, no social media, no smart phones, there was only the print media, BBC and ITV news and the radio. It was easy to fool the population back then and easier to fool them now.

""We have to live with this the longest time," says Matilda. "But nobody asked us." She was 15 years old when a narrow majority of her compatriots voted to try their luck outside of the European Union. Several members of Matilda's family voted for Brexit. But "not everybody understood what they were voting for," she says."

A 15 year old is sure she understands the issues involved better than those with a different opinion ????.

Edit - To be fair, all teenagers are convinced they know far better than the older generations - it's what being a teenager is all about ????.

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

and of course, the conclusion is that facts are seriously divisive,

better hide the facts and jointly focus on the glory tales, may unite the nation

 

What "facts"???

All I've read is opinion and 'forecasts' - and even those producing the 'forecasts' admit that it's just a 'forecast' (certainly not a fact!) based on assumptions!

Their 'forecasts' have never (?) been correct previously - and yet some take them as gospel now.....

45 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Canterbrigian ... I'm not going through all that, only Tolstoy is worth that effort.

 

The leave campaigners knew what they were after with Brexit ... no EU regulations, strip out laws that protect people, low taxes, trade deals, small government, privatise NHS eventually ... an extreme US model. But they mentioned only trade deals, immigration and money savings that could be funnelled into public services, perhaps. Their underlying agenda was not explicit. And many of the people from working class areas who where persuaded by their arguments did not understand their full agenda. The main issue in 2016 was immigration, and that is what got their vote over the line ... not sovereignty, trade deals or anything else. Without a perceived immigration problem they would have lost. 

 

The people who are happy to pay the economic price are not affected economically by it, or at least don't believe they will be. A bit like sending others to war and watching from home on your TV.

 

Baboon asked the question: what do you think will happen? The only answer that I was certain of is what will not happen ... and that is a no deal Brexit. You're going to be very disappointed.

 

 

 

 

I agree with the first part of your second para. re. some leave campaigners - but you're forgetting that that the vast majority of the media/politicians/'establishment' were telling them that a leave result would result in doomsday!

A large percentage of the  electorate finally recognised the pure propaganda, and preferred to rely on what they knew via their own lives. IMO of course.

Just now, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

*Ahem....We seem to outnumber your lot on here...and then there's the 52% - 48% figure that is continually overlooked, by some. ????

True, but better to ignore the poster's frequent little rants - and posts based on his self-perceived superiority over pretty much everyone else..... ????.

3 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers' aka: 'Democrats with a backbone', they simply need to be opposed to this rubbish deal. 90+ Tory MPs have publicly asserted this claim, who knows how many Lab, DUP and independents etc. will feel the same? Both major parties went into the last GE with the manifesto claims that we would leave the CU/SM and ECJ jurisdiction if they were elected. Those who vote FOR this deal in parliament, particularly Tory MPs, should be stripped of their seats.

 

'looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.' - This is the worry. One that I share.  

 

"To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers'"

Which is why I ignored SheungWan's 'hard brexiteers' comment re. MPs, and replaced it with 'genuine brexiteers' in my post.

Having said this, I agree with your post - except any MP that votes for this 'deal' (????) should be stripped of their seats IMO!

It's the worst of all possible worlds!

19 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Dead duck. Hard Brexiteers don't have the numbers.

I agree.

Genuine brexiteer MPs don't have the numbers, and the rest are just looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.