kwilco

You re obsessing with the so-called “Redfield question” which is often misunderstood. Dr. Redfield suggested COVID might have come from a lab — but he has never said vaccines are unsafe. In fact, he helped lead their rollout and has publicly supported them. Invoking him to discredit vaccines confuses virus origin with vaccine science — two very different issues. Science welcomes contradiction, but it also demands credible, peer-reviewed evidence. The overwhelming global data still shows vaccines have dramatically reduced hospitalizations and deaths. That’s not blind belief — that’s outcome-based science. If we’re going to apply scepticism, let’s apply it to all claims — including sweeping ones like “all vaccines will kill you.” You need to broaden you horizons and open up the discussion and realise that Redfield says more about the poor state of American healthcare than anything else

the topic of vaccines spans from the 14th century to prsent day and is a world wide science - you are fixating on one reference from the American press as said step back and take a deep breath.

One of the greatest things about being human is our capacity to observe, think, and create. We didn’t just survive—we adapted. By watching the stars, tracking the seasons, studying plants and animals, and decoding everything from atoms to galaxies, we transformed existence itself. - We became Homo sapiens—the "wise humans." It’s that wisdom that has taken us from near extinction to global civilisation. We’ve even developed the insight to recognise that we can be the threat to our own future—through climate change, war, and unchecked technologies. We didn’t get here without resistance. - At every stage of progress, there have been those who chose myth over method. Deniers, superstitious zealots, ritualists. Today, they show up as anti-vaxxers, climate deniers, and conspiracy theorists. These are not harmless cranks. They are a threat to themselves as much as anyone - the people who trade reason for paranoia, who abandon evidence for internet echo chambers. They waste the precious human gift of thought—and worse, they drag others down with them. History shows what happens when these voices gain power - witch hunts, dark ages, genocide. Not just backward steps, but brutal ones to boot. Yes, humanity often pulls through, but survival is never guaranteed, and the spread of conspiracy thinking is not just embarrassing—it’s dangerous. So….don’t be that person the gainsayer, the denier, the gullible, don’t tolerate it in others, because the future isn’t built on fantasy, it’s built on fact.

I think we've dealt with false claims to authority.

It's par for the course to hear exactly the same stuff and nonsense from Conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers all over the net and their comments are remarkably identical - they lack of undrstanding of evidence, cherrypicking and trying to disprove centuries of computation with one quote - it's so repetitive, but you have to admire their resilience.........Mark Twain, as ever has a suitable quote...

QED

you are so predictable and still don't understand reference - please look at the check list

So are you implying that the stuff you cut and pasted disproves vaccines and proves” “All Vaccines Will Kill You - The evidence is overwhelming” – yet you are unable to comment on this yourself – presumably because you don’t understand it. I think it’s is a crucial point in rational scepticism to dismantle bogus "appeals to authority" that conspiracy theorists like yourself love to misuse (e.g., “This scientist questions vaccines, so they must be right about everything”). Being brilliant in one theory or domain doesn't guarantee someone immune to bad ideas elsewhere. Here are some notable examples of scientists who made groundbreaking contributions, but also promoted fringe, pseudoscientific, or outright bizarre ideas… Isaac Newton – Father of modern physics… and obsessed with alchemy One of the most brilliant scientists in history, yet, he spent decades trying to turn lead into gold and searching for hidden messages in the Bible. Linus Pauling – Two-time Nobel laureate… and vitamin C fanatic - Revolutionized chemistry and won the Nobel Peace Prize and then later became obsessed with mega doses of vitamin C as a cure-all — including for cancer — despite lack of solid evidence. His claims have spawned decades of quack medicine. Francis Crick – Co-discoverer of DNA structure… and believer in “directed panspermia” Brilliant geneticist, later promoted the idea that life on Earth was seeded by aliens. Purely speculative and outside the bounds of conventional science. Do you sill eat octopus and squid? Kary Mullis – Invented PCR… and denied HIV causes AIDS - Nobel Prize-winning biochemist who invented a key method used in modern virology. Denied HIV's role in AIDS, backed astrology, and claimed to have encountered glowing raccoons while high on LSD. Nikola Tesla – Electrical genius… and believer in communication with extraterrestrials - Pioneered AC electricity and wireless transmission. Also believed he received signals from aliens and made outlandish claims about "death rays" and energy beams. The moral of this story is - Even the brightest minds can hold bizarre beliefs. What matters in science isn’t who says it, but whether it's backed by evidence, reproducibility, and peer review. So when someone says, “But this Nobel scientist supports my theory…” — remind them: even geniuses need data. There is an obvious irony here - The moment a respected scientist says something weird or fringe, conspiracy theorists don’t see a red flag — they see a golden ticket. Instead of asking, “Does this claim have evidence?”, they shout - “See? Even a Nobel Prize winner agrees with me!” They ignore the thousands of experts who disagree — and cling to the one outlier, even if that person has clearly veered off the rails. It's confirmation bias at its purest: the scientist is brilliant until they say something mainstream — then suddenly they’re “paid off by Big Pharma.” to sum it up Conspiracy Logic 101 – 1 expert saying something weird = "a brave truth-teller" 10,000 experts agreeing on facts = "a global cover-up" This isn’t about truth. It’s about validation. And that’s why they treat scientific outliers like messiahs — even when those same people are ranting about vitamin C curing cancer or aliens seeding life on Earth.

Sometimes it helps to stand back and look at a conspiracy theory and watch it start to crumble………Science Evolves. Anti-Vax Myths Don’t. Conspiracy theorists love to argue in minutiae — floods of obscure references, cherry-picked studies, and "experts", often just politicians you've never heard of. It feels like depth, but it's really just noise designed to smother the big picture. So take a step back. Breathe. Look at the full context — and one truth becomes crystal clear: Real science is self-correcting, constantly evolving. Pseudoscience hasn’t changed in centuries. So what bout vaccins? A brief recap - The concept of vaccination isn’t new. It began in 14th-century China, where people used smallpox scabs to induce immunity. The idea spread to the Ottoman Empire, then to Europe. In the 1700s, Edward Jenner used cowpox to stop smallpox — without even knowing what a virus was. In the late 1800s, Louis Pasteur cracked open the microbial world. He developed vaccines for anthrax and rabies, proved the germ theory, and gave us the scientific foundation for immunology. Since then? We’ve built on that legacy with: Rigorous clinical trials Peer-reviewed studies DNA- and mRNA-based vaccines Decades of global health data Science keeps asking, correcting, learning, and improving. That’s its power. Now Check out the anti-vax arguments: Still saying “natural immunity is better.” Still screaming “government control.” Still claiming “they’re injecting poison.” These were the same lines used by people who didn't believe in germs, rejected evolution, and thought illness came from bad air centuries ago If your argument hasn’t changed since before antibiotics were discovered, it’s not research — it’s superstition. Zoom out. Stop drowning in trivia and look at what the real-world evidence tells us: Vaccines work. Science works. The facts changed — and so did we. It’s time you did too.

I think you can check that on the list?

I’ve compiled this check list to help identify anti-vax conspiracy theorists Spot the signs. Think critically. Choose facts, not fear. Note first that critical thinking tends to start with a question e.g - “what damage is caused by vaccines?” whereas a conspiracy theorist tends to start with a statement e.g “All Vaccines Will Kill You” and then looks around for “support” for that statement 1. "Do Your Own Research" – but know the difference between “search” and “research” ☐ Are they rejecting every expert source but trusting a random blog, YouTube video, or meme? ☐ Is “research” just Googling until they find something that confirms what they already believe? (Google is not a source, it’s a search engine) Real research involves peer review, not Reddit threads or "sealioning"! 2. Fake Experts, Real Confusion ☐ Are they quoting “doctors” with no relevant qualifications—or long-discredited figures? ☐ Is a chiropractor or lifestyle guru being treated like an immunologist? If you wouldn’t trust them to do surgery, maybe don’t trust them on virology. 3. Natural = Good, Science = Bad ☐ Is the post full of appeals to nature—like “your immune system is enough” or “chemicals are evil”? ☐ Do they ignore that diseases are natural too? Smallpox was natural. So were polio and the plague. 4. "I'm Just Asking Questions" ☐ Do they avoid making actual claims, but drop ominous-sounding questions like “Why are they pushing this so hard?” ☐ Is it just sowing doubt without offering facts? “Just asking” can be a shield for misinformation. 5. Cherry-Picked Stats & Misleading Charts ☐ Are they using scary-looking graphs or rare adverse cases with no context? ☐ Are large studies and safety data being ignored? If it sounds dramatic but skips the full picture, it’s probably not science. 6. Big Pharma = Evil Mastermind ☐ Is everything blamed on shadowy corporations and bought-out doctors? ☐ Is it assumed that all science is corrupt except the stuff that supports their view? Pharma isn’t perfect—but neither are essential oils from Instagram influencers. 7. Fear-Driven Language ☐ Is the tone emotional, alarmist, and filled with words like “toxic,” “deadly,” or “experimental”? ☐ Does it feel designed to scare first, explain never? If it’s more horror movie than medical advice, don’t panic—fact-check. Bottom Line: Anti-vax arguments often sound passionate—but passion isn’t proof. Believing something doesn’t make it true. Repeating it doesn’t make it safer. Science isn’t perfect, but it does evolve based on evidence—not fear. Stay curious. Stay skeptical. Skepticality is part of science and critical thinking – but make sure you actually know what critical thinking as and how to do it. This is my favourite introduction to critical thinking There are plenty of books, videos and courses that you can find online. And remember: vaccines don’t just protect you—they protect everyone.

By "they" you mean the lizard people? Remember Trump was president for the Covid epidemic and one of te first things he did was disband the White House pandemic response team

I think you need to read up on references/cherry picking etc -THis is the kind of mistakes that school kids and undergraduates make - I posted earlier about how the less academic are not used to dealing with this and there is no science involved, just a Senate committeee; you should be gathering information from a wider range of sources and look at how other countries handled covid While there is a recognised, albeit rare, risk of myocarditis following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination—especially among young males—the condition is generally mild and resolves with minimal intervention. The risk of myocarditis from COVID-19 infection remains higher than from vaccination. Ongoing research and surveillance continue to inform vaccine recommendations and safety protocols.

No it wasn't, and you clearly don't know what science means - I get really tired of people throwing around the word "science" like it's some vague magical belief system or personal opinion. It’s not. Science isn't a vibe. It’s not a religion. It doesn’t care how you feel about it. Science means knowledge, gained through evidence. It's a method — a brutal, unforgiving process of observation, hypothesis, testing, and verification. You know what that means? It means if you're wrong, the data will tell you. And if you ignore the data? You're not “doing your own research” — you’re just being willfully ignorant. Science isn’t perfect, but unlike armchair opinions, it corrects itself. That’s the whole point. It changes when new evidence comes in. That’s not weakness — that’s the power of it. If you're clinging to outdated nonsense just because it matches your worldview, congratulations: you're anti-science. So next time you're tempted to say "science says" or argue against it with a YouTube video and a feeling in your gut, learn what the word actually means. Science is not on your side. It’s on the side of reality. Deal with it.

Sealioning - the favourite occupation of those who just don't know that they don't know.......

2 down and about 50more Brits to go on Samui alone..... check out the gyms, scuba etc etc

no I don't

This is misleading. Japan didn't stop vaccinating babies—they just changed some vaccines from "mandatory" to "recommended" in 1994, and uptake remains high. Japan still vaccinates against all the major diseases. Also, infant mortality has many causes (prenatal care, maternal health, NICU access, etc.) and differences in reporting standards make country comparisons tricky. The U.S., for example, counts extremely premature births as live births—many other countries don’t, which skews the numbers. Cherry-picking IMR and ignoring all this context doesn’t prove anything about vaccine safety. It DOES show that America has one of the worst healthcare systems in the developed world. PS - Japan’s vaccine uptake is comparable to or higher than the USA for most core childhood vaccines. Japan’s vaccination program is publicly funded and vaccines are widely administered in clinics and health centers. The idea that Japan “stopped vaccinating” is completely false—they just reclassified mandates, but recommendations and uptake remained strong.

So you're saying we shouldn't have vaccines because the dinosaurs in the Jurassic period didn't have them (we've had between 5 and 20 mass extinctions so for- most of which lasted much longer than th current era - - let me get this straight — because crocodiles didn’t need vaccines, humans don’t either? Seriously? Crocodiles also don’t have electricity, medicine, or the internet — should we ditch all that too? Humans didn’t survive this long just by “adapting.” We made fire. We built cities. We cured diseases. That’s science. It’s not some optional luxury — it’s the reason we’re not all dying from infections or drinking filthy water. Stop pretending evolution alone got us here. Evolution gave us brains — science is how we used them to stop dying young. Comparing us to animals that haven’t changed in 200 million years isn’t clever. It’s lazy. You want to live like a crocodile? Be my guest. The rest of us are trying to stay healthy with the tools we actually have — like vaccines. I think you ought to think about extinctions and also human life expectancy - or do you think "to hell with them"? - actually on second thoughts don't bother I don't even know why I'm bothering with you.

" How did the human race emerge, evolve, survive and prosper before "the science" was even thought about ?" - so what is your point? what exactly are you implying?

Science didn’t invent life — it helped us understand it. We survived by chance and adaptation; we thrive today thanks to clean water, vaccines, surgery, and medicine — all products of science, not magic. - you may have noticed, there a quite a few humans about....

That's WHY they happen....don't try to justify your anal OCD by ridiculous off topic interruptions...or are you just too dumb to work out typos?

In short, we didn't. Let’s not pretend ignorance was the golden age of health. We also survived without antibiotics, clean water, or electricity. Doesn’t mean we should go back to dying at 40. Dying in childbirth, smallpox, and tooth infections Science didn’t invent disease—it gave us tools to fight it.

Thanks, but I prefer ideas over typos—feel free to correct me when you’ve published a bestseller.

Just a theory! Saying “I didn’t get vaccinated and I’m still alive” is like saying “I didn’t wear a seatbelt and didn’t crash.” It’s not proof the seatbelt isn’t useful—it just means you were fortunate.