kwilco

rubbish

If you go to court, it will take months or even years. THe police self-appoint themselves as judge and jury as well as police here, thety decide of fault and blame and then demand and apportion funds as they see fit. If you go around them they will take offence. Trying to negotiate on you own is a mistake - get the insurance guy again and he can sit down and tell you what is happening. Don't overrate web cams, a good lawyer can run rings around tem i seconds and they can even backfire on yourself.

I see no need to discuss the rights and wrongs on this theread as yhtat boat has already left. My only comment is not so much your experience but mine - and it may be useful to others invovled in any collision regadless of fault. this ASP! call the insurnce - always have it to hand - others can call police etc but you need your insurance agaent on the spot and quick. you can't sort this yourself, you need the insrance rep to act as intermediary between you, the police and the third party. Failure to do this just causes huge amounts of complications.

this is a review of my original paper that the OP was based on. Road safety in Thailand is a significant concern, with perceptions of safety often differing from reality. Understanding these perceptions and misconceptions is crucial for effective interventions to improve road safety outcomes. Research Aim: This study aims to explore and contrast public and governmental perceptions of road safety in Thailand to identify barriers to progress towards safer roads. Methodology: The research draws upon 20 years of academic research in transportation, road safety, and Thai culture, as well as firsthand experience driving 600.00 kilometers on Thai public roads. Findings: The study reveals a disconnect between public and governmental perceptions of road safety in Thailand, highlighting the importance of addressing misconceptions to drive improvements in road safety outcomes. Theoretical Importance: This research sheds light on the subjective nature of perceptions surrounding road safety and underscores the need to base interventions on empirical evidence rather than anecdotal observations. Data Collection: Data for this study was collected through an extensive literature review spanning 2 decades and firsthand observations made during 600.00 kilometers of driving on Thai public roads. Analysis Procedures: The collected data was analyzed to compare public and governmental perceptions of road safety, identifying discrepancies and misconceptions that hinder progress towards safer roads in Thailand. Questions Addressed: This study addresses the differing perceptions of road safety in Thailand between the public and government, exploring the implications of these discrepancies for road safety interventions. Conclusion: The findings of this study emphasize the need for aligning public and governmental perceptions of road safety to drive effective interventions and promote safer roads in Thailand. Reviewers' Comments: This research contributes to the existing literature by highlighting the discrepancies in perceptions of road safety in Thailand and the need for evidence-based interventions.

There is a "could've, would've, should've" syndrome....of course they didn't. ..and again it's personal observation. however I would heartily agree that the design and execution of road works etc leaves a lot to be desired. I've spoken a lot about the lack of competent road traffic engineers in Thai, to the point of wondering if there are in fact any at all. It's not just the layout, the actual signs themsleves are mostly useless, they don't reflect light at night and I've even seen arrows pointing the wrong way. THere seems to be a philosophy or why use 100 bollards when one will do? - Of course it doesn't.

I used to work in a place that grew their own rice, had chickens and a lot of vegetables and greenhouses and hydroponics. THe eggs were sold as "organic" as were the vegetables - but they would not have met EU standards - the chickens were battery as well. THere are virtually no laws that government animal welfare in Thailand and those that exist are not enforced. (see pigs being transported y road) THe legal definition of "organic" varies from country to country - but basically requires that land hasn't had chemicals on it for so many years.....in Thauiland I've never heard of anyone being checked for that....it just means they don't use as much as the next guy (see the adverts on Thai TV!!)

I think the truck (yellow line) was in the nearside or centre lane and the Chnises SUV (red line) attempted to cross the road but was picked up by the truck and crushed back over to the wall on the RHS.

Repeating misinformation doesn’t make it true. Data collection requires proper methodology, not just personal observation. Bias exists when conclusions are drawn without considering broader context. And yes, systemic factors contribute to accidents—blaming only drivers ignores infrastructure, policy, and enforcement. If we ‘all know why accidents happen,’ then why dismiss expert analysis? Understanding the full picture matters.

Here is an overview of the crash site....

Seriously?? - I just gave you who gathers stats and how - what stats have you ever gathered?

Maybe they're trying to avoid a salary increase after a years employment by starting you off again?

The trailer in question is a “dry bulk” carrier. They carry a range of bulk powders, including cement ,grains, pulp, food chemicals, plastics building materials and fertilisers. Nearby Sri Racha port has several powder and bulk facilities – this vehicle was coming away from th port. BUT The junction itself is very badly planned. It’s a very low ceiling tunnel under the motorway Where it joins, it is designed to turn right and there is a short filter/acceleration lane. HOWEVER there is an exit on the other side of this junction that creates an “X” shaped junction. This means that people are trying to cross over the 3 lanes on the frontage road at a diagonally backwards angle! It is also possible that if the car was being driven by a Chinese person they were used to driving on the other side of the road and didn’t look left before trying to cross the road. The other almost unbelievable thing about the underpass is that it is 2 lanes DRIVE ON THE RIGHT! It is in fact 2-u-turns if you follow the road markings. Also if you follow the road markings you can’t go straight across the lanes only show a right turn onto the frontage road – there are no markings for going across. I’ve driven this tunnel many times and always thought it was a recipe for disaster.

I am working on the evidence you have presented on this thread. If find it said that your arguments are purely ad hom and gainsaying and you concentrate of the message rather than the messenger. It is a sign of lazy thinking. you try to cast aspersions about my "experience" but you clearlty don't understand what experience is needed - under your classification I have FAR more experience than you but what you fail to comprehend is that what I am presenting are the established views and opinions of world experts on raod safety not of some hick who can drive a car.

many sould see hemsleves in this Detailed descriptions of how “bad” other motorists driving is are seldom helpful. Without analysis, all they do is reinforce those people’s prejudices about driving in Thailand - i.e. The Dunning Kruger effect is very common -.. a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general. - https://www.britannica.com/science/Dunning-Kruger-effect Blaming people or even the entire nation, rather than considering the underlying causes. There is also the temptation to attempt simplify matters by looking for one single solution for the whole problem; a sort of road safety panacea. A few common truths about how motorists see themselves versus other road users “Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” - George Carlin “The one thing that unites all human beings, regardless of age, gender, religion, economic status, or ethnic background, is that, deep down inside, we all believe that we are above- average drivers.” – Dave Barry “The survey by Michelin North America found that the majority of Americans don’t trust other drivers and say they witness unsafe driving behavior regularly. At the same time, an overwhelming majority - 81 percent - remain supremely confident in their own abilities behind the wheel.” 10 These were some observations resulting from research done by the Centre for Transport and Society - UK.... The public know that driver behaviour is a major contributory factor in the vast majority of road accidents... (Cauzard, 2003) - But there is a consistent view that OTHERS drive in a riskier manner than individuals themselves do - (King and Parker, 2008) It’s not just driving – older children and adolescents think they have good attitude and skills towards road safety but believe that others especially those in their peer group do not - (Tolmie. 2006). Individuals do not believe they are dangerous on the roads but at the same time fervently believe others are. • I am not likely to be responsible for an accident; others are likely to be responsible. Therefore, little I can do. • Hence, less likely to need to “plan to avoid them” • Campaigns aimed at dangerous driving are for “other” drivers not themselves. • Such campaigns re-emphasise this difference (2CV, 2008 and Flaming Research, 2008) • The third-person effect (Davison, 1983). • High support for enforcement, engineering solutions and education • But not for themselves - for other people. However, the reality can be a long way from these benighted perspectives. 10 https://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/23/george-carlin-was-right-other-drivers-are-idiots-and-maniacs.html

“You thinking Thai drivers are better drivers than western is ignorance." – now you are just making stuff up…or let’s admit it – you haven’t read anything I posted You keep insisting you ‘already know’ everything, yet you ignore every point made. That’s not intelligence—it’s arrogance. Nobody denies individual responsibility, but effective road safety is about systemic solutions, not just blaming drivers. Countries with once-terrible traffic safety records have improved dramatically through adopting the WHOLE Safe System including better enforcement, infrastructure, and education, emergency and evaluation—not by ranting about ‘bad attitudes.’ You complain that Thai drivers ‘don’t care’ about laws, but why? Because the 5Es are not adopted—the very things you refuse to acknowledge matter. And your ‘brown-noser’ insult? That’s just a weak attempt to deflect from your lack of a real argument. Road safety improves when problems are addressed, not just complained about. That’s what you don’t get

Apparently not.

You are now fixating on the driving test, which is clearly show not to have the effects you claim - countries with a far more lenient testing system have much better road safety records than the US - which actually does licencing by state and not on a national basis. As I said earlier, the safety system was first published as a complete entity in the 1990s - you don't seem to realise that America - (which I mentioned earlier) has not fully adopted the safe system and has one of the worst road safety records in the "west" - as I said earlier, you are more likely to die in a 4-wheeled vehicle in the States than you are in the UK - the figures per 100k pop are actually higher in the USA. If you care to do some serious reading on Raod Safety, here are just a few of the references I used in the OP Some of the organizations include... • The World Health Organization (WHO) - https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default- source/thailand/roadsafety/overview-en-final-25-7- 19.pdf?sfvrsn=f9d7a862_2 • Save the children Thailand - https://thailand.savethechildren.net/sites/thailand.savethechildren.net/files/ library/Save%20the%20Children’s%20Work%20in%20Road%20Safety%20- %20The%207%25%20Project_1.pdf • ThaiRoads Foundation - http://www.thairoads.org/en/ 5 https://roadsafety.piarc.org/en/road-safety-management-safety-data/crash-data-system • International Road Assessment Program (iRAP) and Chulalongkorn University - https://irap.org/2018/11/new-thai-centre-of-excellence- chulalongkorn-university/ • The Embassy of Sweden is coordinating a group called “the Embassy Friends of Road Safety (EFRS) - https://scandasia.com/tag/the-embassy-friends-of- road-safety-efrs/ • Thailand Road Safety Observatory, TRSO - =http://www.atransociety.com/resources/pdf/pdfResearch2013- 2018/2014/Project2014-006(Dr.Paramet).pdf • Arrive Alive - Association of Southeast Asian Nations Regional Road Safety Strategy and Action Plan (2005–2010) - https://www.adb.org/publications/arrive-alive-asean-regional-road-safety- and-action-plan-2005-2010 • ASEAN TRANSPORT STRATEGIC PLAN 2016-2025 - https://www.itf- oecd.org/asean-transport-strategic-plan-2016-2025-and-progress-road- safety-initiatives • EU/ASEAN - https://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/eu-and-asean- exchange-knowledge-and-best-practices-road-safety_en • Australia, Safe System Solutions - https://www.austrade.gov.au/news/success-stories/australian-consultancy- helps-improve-road-safety-in-thailand • Bloomberg Philanthropies Initiative for Global Road Safety - https://www.bloomberg.org/public-health/improving-road-safety/ • Office of Transport & Traffic Policy & Planning(OTP), Ministry of Transport - https://www.mot.go.th/about.html?dsfm_lang=EN&id=12 • Thai RSC. - Accident road safety Data for Thailand - http://www.thairsc.com/eng/ • World Bank - https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2019/03/26/working-towards- improving-road-safety-and-saving-lives-in-thailand https://www.pacts.org.uk/pacts-model-inspires-road-safety-progress-in-thailand/

"There are countless books and articles that have been written about driver safety, " "The books I've read have no bearing on this," "Anyone can look up most anything online and quote it here." = it seems you don't even know how to research a topic - so how could tyou expect to have a reasoned discussion ? I think you need to make up your mind. You claim you read when you were 17????? - I think that was a long, long time ago. Your comments lead me to believe that you really haven't read anything on road safety, I don't think you even know where to look - and you make the fundamental mistake of thinking that google is a source. it has to be said I don't think you are equipped to make this debate in any coherent terms

Where were the cowboys in all this?

which books are those? more to the point which books have you actually read?

In fact at present there is a move to THere is at present a move to improve report and analyse RTIs in the same way they do in Europe. Of course the RTP will be slow on the up take Here's something I wrote earlier....... What the RTP fail to achieve in the event of an RTI Analysing the scene of a collision is a crucial part of any investigation inot a road incident , and it needs to be done in a very systematic way. The initial scene assessment needs to be carried out quickly and thoroughly – in most cases in Thailand it is totally haphazard – this is typically seen as traffic is allowed to pass close or even through the scene. There is a acronym mnemonic for this - “METHANE” : It stands for Make the scene safe, Establish the facts, Treat the injured, Hazards and risks, Access and egress, Notification and Evidence preservation. (this is crucial for finding out what really happened.) Officers are trained to prioritize actions like securing the scene, checking for injuries, and identifying potential hazards. Then the work of sorting out the events can take place. Once the immediate situation is stabilized, a more detailed examination begins. This involves: Physical evidence: E.g. skid marks, debris, vehicle damage, and any other physical traces that can offer clues about the collision's dynamics. Scene measurements are taken and mapped out The scene is meticulously measured and documented Specialized equipment like “total stations” are to create accurate scale diagrams. These are a combination of an electronic distance meter, which uses an infra-red light to measure distance, and a theodolite, or electronic transit. Never seen one used in Thailand. Witness statements: Statements from anyone who witnessed the collision are useful for understanding the sequence of events. They need to be taken very carefully taking into account - Eyewitnesses can be very compelling, but rather than recording experiences flawlessly, memory is susceptible to a plethora of errors and biases. We all make errors in remembering specific details and can even remember whole events that did not actually happen. There is plenty of documented evidence of how most eye witnesses are ultimately unreliable suffering from such things a false biases, false memories and misinformation. (e,g, judging speed) Then vehicles involved are inspected for mechanical issues, damage patterns, and potential digital data like airbag control module readings. Tachographs if fitted In more major or complicated collisions, the digital specialists are called in e.g Forensic Collision Investigators (FCIs): For serious collisions, FCIs have further specialized training and equipment to conduct in-depth scene examinations and reconstructions. They can use techniques like 3D scanning/modelling of the scene for more detailed analysis. They can also extract and interpret data from vehicle electronic control units (e.g. - ECUs). Then there is accident reconstruction software which will recreate or simulate the collision based on gathered evidence to understand its dynamics. After all this has been done the reporting and analysis is carried out. The findings are documented in a comprehensive report that includes: Scene diagrams and photographs. Witness statements and interview summaries. Vehicle examination reports. Any specialist analysis results. Conclusions and recommendations based on the evidence. UK has the one of the lowest road death rates in the world, Thailand one of the highest – a significant fact in this is the lamentable lack of data taken from RTIs. Things you never see in Thailand - scene preservation is paramount yet the Thai police fail to close off accident scenes or even the road. . The scene is secured to prevent contamination or alteration of evidence. Apart from occasional drug/alcohol of drivers testing potential criminal aspects are left unchecked. Most of the investigation is left to under-trained local police not a specific accident investigation unit. I’ve never seen any advanced technology used in role in scene analysis. Tools like drones and 3D scanning enhancing data collection and reconstruction capabilities. What do you get in Thailand? A statement to the press in an impossibly short space of time that sums up the incident in a series of clichés that appear to be designed to make the whole thing go away ASAP. Nothing is learn, roads are left damaged with oil and cargoes seeping into the nearby environment and water table and blame is apportioned regardless of what actually happened. Even worse are the comments by totally uninformed amateurs who every time a crash is reported on EL forums see fit to chime in with the same old rubbish largely based on anecdotal observations, racist and stereotypical generalisations of “all Thais are bad drivers and deserve what they get” –“expats re all superior and superb drivers”

If you've tread any of my stuff, you know I have written lots about crash reporting and their failures and that is the whole point of my initial comment - I think you missed the irony IOt is one of the conferences where crash analysis and statistics gathering will be discussed - https://conferenceindex.org/event/international-conference-on-road-safety-management-icrsm-2025-february-phuket-th

QED

you don't gettit, you mean - you clearly have no idea what is gping on in road safety in Thailand and you just think by saying "it will never change" you are making an intellgent comment - well all that says is you understand nothing. As for your refeencinthe media like that - you really need to review you ability to reference or interpret evidence

You seem to been hiding your ignorance with cynicism. Road crashes cost Thailand trillions of baht every year and only with proper analyses of crashes can one formulate a way forward.