mark45y

I do not think that many wealthy Westerners move to Thailand at all. They prefer Tahiti or the South of France.

There is allegedly one in Pattaya, but he moved here so his bilingual gardener could give him stock-market tips.

You can laugh but he got me out of US dollars 4 years ago and into Swiss Francs. BTW I left Pattaya three years ago and moved up the coast a ways.

Yes, yes, street food with flies crawling over it and no running water to clean cutlery is much more sterile than a hot pizza fresh from the oven in an air-con place with a dishwashing machine.

The Manila pizza place I eat in didnt have air-con and probably didnt have a dishwashing machine. It was pretty classy though, at the time. The free doctor I saw (who, by the way, prescribed well-done toast and bananas, which worked incredibly well) said that nearly all the problems he saw stemmed from half-cooked food that was left lying around to be finished off later: like pizza toppings and BBQ buffets.

To be more precise about my diet here: I rarely eat meat at all and would never eat any sort of meat skewer no matter where it was from. I do eat plate-fulls of spicy seafood salads and noodles both from street vendors and cheap restaurants and none of them has ever made me ill. Probably because they dont hang around part-cooked for hours on end. Also seafood pad thai, seafood-balls and similar dishes, and lots of fried fish but not the sort that has a brown "batter" on it.

YMMV. I am not a doctor or a lawyer.

The street vendors don't have access to toilets with toilet paper, or clean towels and soap to wash after pooping. So the poop gets in the food. Unless it is cooked very well you get sick from the Thai vendors poop. The doctor in Manila would have known this also if he requested you provide him a stool sample. If the doctor does not get a stool sample he is only guessing what you have anyway.

Thailand is a good 100 years away from having any adequate standards of sanitation.

Woman of easy virtue are easy to find all over the country.

Farangs of easy virtue are also to be found all over the country.

I am sure you meant to use Farangs as a term defining both male and female foreign people. That being the case do you really think there are female Farangs of easy virtue all over the country? I must be living in a shell. If there are any Farang females of easy virtue feel free to PM me.

Hang out at Soi 11/Sukhumvit and/or Thong Lor. Last visit last week the Thai company group I was with was impressed with the dress sense (lack thereof) but that doesn't seem as if it would bother you.

I don't know, Maybe Mrs. Miller is on to something. Maybe it is something in the water or food that turns normally upstanding Farang women into women of easy virtue. Who am I to argue with Mrs. Miller. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

At the risk of being thought to be obsessed with bar girls I do not agree with your opinion that they're everywhere.

Woman of easy virtue are easy to find all over the country.

Farangs of easy virtue are also to be found all over the country.

I am sure you meant to use Farangs as a term defining both male and female foreign people. That being the case do you really think there are female Farangs of easy virtue all over the country? I must be living in a shell. If there are any Farang females of easy virtue feel free to PM me.

Thais women like gold. Thai women like rings.

Why do you think that Thai women don't wear wedding rings?

A million dollar question.

Mine took off her ring the very day I bought a car, and when I asked for it, she told me it was in the pawn shop. I found out it was hidden in the bedroom the day I threw her stuffs out.

I used to tutor Thai female doctors who worked at a large private hospital after work. They were all married but none of them wore wedding rings. At first I thought they were flirting with me. One told me her husband was only home on weekends and that conversation was not in the context of teaching. Another told me when I asked her if she was married, “well, most of the time I am.” I see a few Thai women wearing wedding rings some even with a diamond engagement ring combination, I have always assumed they were married to Falangs.

On the subject can some of the more experienced fellows comment on the following...

When a farang partner frquently tells his Thai partner little white lies because he wants to avoid conflict and not lose face is she totally cool with that? She is right? I mean, it's the Thai way, it's what they're used to and internally think that it's acceptable. Or are double standards apart of the 'Thai way' too?

I have told some of the most outrageous porkies to my Thai ladies and they don't seem to mind. Nor do they constantly bring them up after the fact.

“I could not have been with that woman because you know I don't like skinny young women.”

“That condom has been in my pocket for three years since before I met you.”

“That woman smiles at me because I know her from the restaurant where she is cashier (lady was wearing red slit skirt and fishnet stockings).”

“Those women were my students 6 years ago and remember me (group of smiling women sitting outside of a bar).”

“She calls looking for my friend Ian.” I use that one a lot when the phone rings at 2AM.

In the West with my last wife, one misspent afternoon at a seaside resort motel with my attractive young assistant manager became the topic of conversation at least once a week for 6 years until we finally got a divorce.

Thais women like gold. Thai women like rings.

Why do you think that Thai women don't wear wedding rings?

Low class or uneducated people have low class or uneducated tastes.

I missed this gem. It's all about class and education.

People with no money are low class and have bad taste. People with money are high class and have good taste.

Now we have it figured out.

Bordeaux Wine Official Classification of 1855.

The wines were ranked in importance from first to fifth growths (crus). All of the red wines that made it on the list came from the Médoc region except for one: Château Haut-Brion from Graves. The white wines, then of much less importance than red wine, were limited to the sweet varieties of Sauternes and Barsac and were ranked only from first great growth to second growth.

Not much has changed since 1855. The great vineyards and wine they produce is about the same.

Do you understand or appreciate these wines from birth? Nope. It takes education and experience.

The appreciation of fine wines and great food is made possible by education and experience and exposure.

If you have a low class upbringing eating mostly starches and boiled meats that is what you will like.

If you grew up eating cayenne peppers mashed with spoiled freshwater crabs and shredded unripe fruit topped off with BBQ rat and Jello for dessert that is what you will like.

There is a major difference between bouillabaisse and steamed whole carp with some cockles thrown in.

Are you ready to spend 60,000 baht for a decent bottle of wine and 30,000 baht for dinner?

If you can't appreciate it, it would be a waste of money.

I used to buy wines for restaurants. To learn I spent years in school and at wine tastings. I belonged to a club where 8 of us would all chip in to buy one bottle of good wine so we each could have a small glass. It is the only way to learn. Education and hands on experience with a knowledgeable teacher.

You seem to think food is somehow different than other subjects that are taught. It is not. There are standards of excellence in both food and wine that are centuries old.

Don't confuse what you like with what is really excellent. They may or may not be the same thing.

A good wine is worth 150,000 baht. A table wine 600 baht. Do you really think there are not people who are competent to set the price? People blend whiskeys. People blend teas. These are people with both the education and experience to do so.

Food and wine are both a science and an art. To really appreciate them takes education and experience and money.

You drive a car, I presume. Does that car driving experience qualify you to drive a formula one machine? Do you think formula one drivers go to school? Do you think they train with experienced drivers? Do you think the mechanics and designers are any different than cooks and chefs? Do you think poor people know the thrill of driving a Ferrari? No, of course not.

Will the influx of Russians bring about a culinary or cultural Renaissance to Pattaya? I doubt it. They will fit right in with the rest of the rather lower economic classes that are there now. Seems like a good match to me.

A more arrogant, self centered post than this would be hard to find on Thaivisa, sorry this post is the most snobbish rubbish i have read for a long time

I would love to respond but Jingthing reminded me that it would be going off topic, so I started a thread called "Do Brits know more about beer than the rest of us?" in the Farang Pub and entertainment forum. You are welcome to post your response there as is Tropo but he didn't show up. Your views would of course be welcome.

From what I have read I would say Brits know more about beer than most others. I was kind of hoping for a German to post but none have. It would have been an interesting discussion the difference between top and bottom fermenting yeasts.

I have found that 30 to 40 year old women have quite high sex drives. I like variety she likes frequency.

If the relationship is open and the sex drive high, what makes you think she wouldn't enjoy frequency and variety?

Because she has a friend the same age who has both variety and frequency. Her comments about the friend have always been negative as far as the variety goes. I like the friend and we have known each other for a long time. Talking together I find myself on the friends side in most discussions.

Intellectually I am much more in tune with the friend and have encouraged the GF try some new experiences but she has turned down any opportunities.

I also listen to phone conversations when GF does not realize I am listening. She thinks when I am typing I can't listen. I wouldn't get bent out of shape either way actually so I have no real ax to grind.

I have always found it odd that most men insist on fidelity. I always thought what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Perhaps that's why I get lied to less or maybe not. At any rate it is not an important issue in my life. A calm home life and peaceful existence is far more important to me. She is 35 and I am 65. If she wants a little on the side, good for her. All of my needs are met and I am a happy camper.

They faired better than any of the other countries who declared war on the allies.

That is because when the Japanese were about to attack they sided with the Japanese, when the Japanese were losing the war they sided with the Allies. LOL!

Not True. The Thai's had quite a big underground movement against the Jap's, when the Jap's were coming into their country via Burma.

Thailand had a very well organised resistance movement from 1942 onwards aided by America.

Please provide some examples of what the organised resistance movement actually did in Thailand against the Japanese. The intellegence provided was largely discounted as untrustworthy and inaccurate. Although what Thai military operations during WW II have to do with today's Thai army I don't know. Perhaps you could explain the connection.

Old Sailor I really don't know what your motivation is for trying to include all these posts about Americans and the Vietnam war. You are wrong in all of your facts. I could set you straight as I was even involved in a couple of the operations that you mention and am still here to tell the tale.

But it is off topic. If you want to start a thread on the American's loss of the Vietnam war I would be happy to participate.

If you were involved in the Vietnam war I would be more sympathetic or perhaps have some understanding about where you are going with your thoughts. From your posts I find it hard to believe you are old or have ever been in the military. Maybe I am wrong.

So forgive me for not responding but I think it is too far off topic. If a mod were to write that the Vietnam war was fair game for this topic I will contribute to it further.

I live better than Hugh Hefner, Tiger Woods or an Arab Sheik. I don't have big money. But I've enough to rent a bar for a night for a birthday party.

There is a long time poster here on Thai Visa that had a birthday party a few years ago. He wouldn't let me buy a drink. The night and the entire staff and the food was on him. I remember someone quoting Hefner on Tiger Woods saying, “monogomy is overrated.”

There are a number of threads on TV about why people prefer Thailand to their home country. When I see a news article like the one in this instance it is so obvious.

I have a Thai lady friend whose name is Duke. I must admit she is one of the most fascinating women I have ever met. I live vicariouosly through her a bit. I only mention it to point out I am not advocating a male only hedonist world view. Duke is 35 and the Thai female equivlent of Tiger Woods.

She plays a bit of golf and has a different boyfriend for ever day of the week and two on Sundays. Asking Thai people about her morality I always get the same response, “up to she.”

So, judge after you get out of the slammer try a trip to Thailand, up to she, up to me.

Falk said about Ayatollah Khomeini, “Having created a new model of popular revolution based, for the most part, on nonviolent tactics, Iran may yet provide us with a desperately-needed model of humane governance for a third-world country.”

In January 2011 Susan Rice, the Obama Administration's ambassador to the United Nations, suggested that Falk should be removed from his U.N. posts after he claimed on his blog that that there had been an "apparent cover-up" by U.S. authorities over the September 11, 2001, attacks. Falk had written that there were "well-evidenced doubts about the official version of the events: an al Qaeda operation with no foreknowledge by government officials." United Nations secretary-general Ban Ki-moon likewise condemned Falk's blog posting, calling it "inflammatory rhetoric" which was "preposterous" and "an affront to the memory of the more than 3,000 people who died in that tragic terrorist attack", and also suggested he should not continue in his United Nations role.

The same thing happened to me. There I was riding my bicycle one minute and the next thing I remember was my brain being damaged and I was in a go go in Pattaya. I was depressed. Aw shucks anyone would be depressed paying the prices those strip joints in Atlanta charge.

Another sad example of a guy who Pattaya could have saved. What this poor fellow is going to jail for is all in a normal night out with the boys in Thailand.

Moral of the story, when you find yourself old and depressed and brain damaged after a bicycle accident start reading Thai Visa and head for the LOS.

- Reserved seating at Cinemas

- 100 Baht contribution to BiB for speeding/driving while white instead of $200 + points/increased insurance

- Tolerance ... straight, gay, katoey ... just does not matter to most Thais

- Toilet paper for dinner napkins ... cheap and often with designer holders

- Bum guns

- Street food stalls

- No admission to the Farang freak show at Nana

- Incredible variety of fresh fruit ... virtually year-round

- Thais respect and care for their elderly rather than just dispose of them in nursing homes

Curious. What experience do you base this on?

Be fair - most Thai women still do their best to give money to their parents. Otherwise they would not leave their homes and go to tourist destinations looking for more money and preferably, someone to support them and their family. Not to mention, there is no way that most could afford to send their parents to nursing homes!

Times are changing, but it will take a few more years before they expect their parents to look after themselves.

I think you are talking about only women so that is only 50% of the population. Mothers and grandmothers are excluded because they were farmers without the means of financially supporting parents so that leaves daughters and in my experience that is only one out of two daughters.

So what you are really saying is maybe 10% of the current Thai population will give money to support their parents.

I really like Chang beer.

The strongest beer at the cheapest price in the biggest bottle.

You just can't do better than that.

Interesting point of view. Would you rather watch three bad cheap football games or one good one?

Are the Russians going to keep coming after the season is over?

Are the Russians going to move in like the Western ex pats have done?

I have not heard of many mentioning Russian old men and young Thai women hand and hand with that goofy look in the old guys eye; are they doing that too?

Bread

Archaeologists have determined that man made beer before he learned to make bread. New studies indicate that the first alcohol was made 5,000 years earlier than thought (about 9,000 BC). It's also thought that pottery was made to hold the beverage.

It's long been known that the first human settlements were in the Middle East and that corn was harvested. It was thought that the corn was for food, but it's now believed it was used to make malt. Grinding stones & ovens have also been found.

It's thought that malt was discovered and used as it's highly nutritious and that alcohol was discovered accidentally when water was added.

Some archaeologists believe beer was invented before bread and that bread was just a biproduct of beer making. Other archaeologists theorize just the opposite. The earliest sickles date to between 10,000 and 8,000 BC and were used to harvest a primitive kind of wild wheat known as emmer as well as wild barley. The earliest evidence of deliberate planting and harvesting of grains is 6700 BC in both Jericho, Israel and Jarmo, Iraq. The beer-first theorists say that beer was the motivation for cultivating these grains because emmer is too difficult to harvest just for food to make it worthwhile.

My own thoughts are that yeast floats around wild in the air almost everywhere. It is only a matter of time before some caveman left out a bowl of fruit juice or gruel and some yeast got into it. The result would be primitive beer or wine.

I would go with the beer first theory and suggest that most food was designed to go along with the beer and wine. Bars before restaurants of course. As our cave man could kill an animal anywhere and eat it but it took a couple of weeks to make beer so one needed a home or cave to do this in.

Beer is also probably the reason marriage was invented. Cave man just walked around hunting and gathering the only reason to settle down was to have a place to make beer. Having a place means someone has to watch the beer while the caveman was out hunting and gathering hence the first wife.

In 1516 the Bavarian Brewery Guilds standardized beer making and a law was passed stating that the only ingredients allowed in beer were water, barley, and hops. The next important advancement came in 1876 when Louis Pastuer discovered that it was yeast that made beer ferment and three years later he developed a pasteurization process that made it possible to preserve beer for far longer than ever before.

The pilgrims settled in Massachusetts instead of Virginia where they had planned to land because they were running out of beer and had to stop and make some. George Washington and Sam Adams were guilded brewmasters.

I have not figured out why Thailand does not make at least a couple of good beers. Mexico does and they are also a hot country where the populations taste buds have been destroyed by hot peppers.

You mean all of you guys posting on Thai Visa are not looking to start a relationship here? Wow. Will wonders never cease!

I stopped drinking beer when I got out of the Army.

I drink spirits now i'm full grown.

Every now and then i'll have a few when the sun is up. Usually a Chang here in Thailand, or a Shiner back home in Texas.

Like Mark is leading us too. It is something that is learned to appreciate.

Myself, being a low class person, cannot appreciate the subtleties of food or drink.

I have never developed a palate for it.

Now BBQ on the other hand

I'm not sure but isn't most beer brewed to compliment the regional food?

Which came first beer or bread?

Belgian beer is excellent as a rule. Germans produce the best lagers by a mile and us Brits do well at both.

I wonder if its possible to be an expert in tasting both wine and beer though?

Although I enjoy a glass of red with a steak and can tell the difference between a good and bad wine I couldn't honestly rate one good wine over another really.

With beer if you gave me 20 to taste I could place them all in order I reckon.

I've yet to taste an American beer or lager worthy of more than one visit.

edit <sp>

I have never been a beer or wine taster. I have been a whiskey blender/taster.

Of course beer has to be tasted. Just measuring ingredients the same every batch will not produce the same beer as the strength and flavor of the malt and hops changes.

I thought the whiskey job would be fun but they insisted we eat nothing spicy and spit out the whiskey after each taste. Perhaps they have machines that do it now buy way back when it was all done by taste. Crown Royal is a blend and tastes the same batch after batch as do most blended Scotches. As far as I know that is a result of human blending of spirits.

Anchor Steam beer (American) has been around for a long time (1896) is not a bad beer.

Perhaps two people don't have really high word quotas they feel obligated to fulfill ever waking moment of the day. Maybe they don't feel the need to add fluff to their conversations such as" by definition" which isn't used in the proper context of the sentence.

Some people understand that silence doesn't equate to stupidity.

Some others? Well...

"dog shit! No step!" has the exact same meaning as " Beware where you are about to place your foot. I seem to have noticed that there is dog excrement on the soil"

It seems a lot of emphasis is placed on the speaking and not much on the listening.

Of course people don't have to speak all the time but they should have the ability to be able to express their thoughts and feelings, lack thereof prohibits what most people would consider a necessary basis for a healthy relationship.

Kids in the mix also adds a scary dimension, the types of people I talk about often have children who can't speak English at all (despite having a native speaking father) and speak Thai like an issan bargirl. These children have a bleak future as they will not be accepted by western or thai society.

But, if thats what you want in your life and for your kids future, go right ahead and marry someone you will never be able to communicate with properly. And again I said "properly."

If you need more clarification you are missing the point and I'm wasting my breath.

Bottom line; do whatever you want but don't be surprised when people look down on you and assume (in many cases truly) that you have bought youself a wh#re, plain and simple.

Good points.

You lost me on the bottom line though. People looking down on each other? On TV? Insinuating that men whom you have never met, wives are whores?

The Internet is crazy.

I am only saying that if I, or most Western people (especially those who have never been to thailand) saw a marriage where the husband and wife are unable to communicate because of a language barrier (especially if the wife is Thai) most people are going to assume that your intentions are purely sexual because if you can't communicate with your wife then what else is there? Then that leads to the whole "buying your wife" thing, whether she is or was a working girl or not, if you can be bought for sex then you are a wh#re.

Most marriages like this, if the couple went to the west I would be certain that they would be looked down upon by most people, including their own family.

I'm not saying people should care, its your life, do what you want. But the reality is that you will be looked down upon and your marriage will never be truly accepted by your peers.

I only mention this because one of us is incredibly far off base. Can a Western man who comes to live in Thailand actually care even a little bit what his peers think? The idea is so foreign to me that I can't even remotely relate to it.

Being English and spending a lifetime sampling many Real Ale's (real beer) from all corners of my country, l was very disappointed with the beer in the USA during my trips there, and l have been E-W and N-S. Most stuff seemed like, well just plain awful lagerish, until we got to Key West and found Bass (UK) on tap. What a relief that was.

For me English Real Ale is like wine, none are the same, every one is unique.

For the average American to get to where you are in your ability to appreciate beer he is going to have to go to school and or go to Britain and drink a lot of beer. The average American micro brew master does exactly that. The California vineyard owners go to college and normally have spent years in France working and learning from the masters in the field. The average chef also spends years in college and working as an apprentice to acquire his skill. French food, English and German beers they are the pinnacle of the art. To really understand beer and food you first must understand French food, English and German beer then you can move on to the rest.

Not much has changed in wine and the vineyards that produce them...eh? Apparently you are not aware of the competitions that began in 1976 where California vineyards trumped those in France. In France no less with French judges. http://www.wineintro.com/history/regions/1976tasting.html

That is actually my point. There are people who can tell a great wine from a cheap wine. The people in 1855 who classified the French vineyards would have also been able to tell the excellence of Californian vineyards. The excellence of a wine establishes it's price not the reverse.

Finding out how to judge wines takes a lot of study and experience. It also takes a lot of cash. It is not some marketing ploy.

A person raised on Budweiser is not going to make a very good judge of excellence in beers.

Once you know about ales it is not much of a stretch to learn about other beers. There are German beers and British beers the rest are combinations or descendent's of those two brewing styles.

My basic point is that education or cultural values are necessary to appreciate good food and or beer or wine. I am not trying to dictate tastes but there is a difference between good food and average food. Som tom is not an example of culinary excellence nor is beer Chang beer. I could like som tom or Chang beer but I would never imply they great examples of excellence in cooking or brewing.