Evil Penevil

The notion of a "large Israeli Jewish population" in Pai is based on false Facebook posts that claimed 30,000 Israelis had settled there. From The Nation on Feb. 18: No Israeli ‘Promised Land’ in Pai: Tourist police refute social media claims https://www.nationthailand.com/news/tourism/40046434 The article stated: "On Tuesday, Pol Lt Col Suwit Boonyaphen, an inspector of Mae Hong Son tourist police, refuted widely shared Facebook posts alleging that around 30,000 Jewish people had settled in Pai and built a Jewish synagogue. "He clarified that the reported figure of 30,000 Israeli tourists refers to the total number of Israeli visitors over the past year, not a permanent settlement. On average, only 83 to 84 Israeli tourists visit Pai each day." However, the 83 to 84 Israeli tourists per day is also misleading. If you divide 30,000 by 12 (months), you get 2,500 visitors per month. Divide that by 30 and you get 83.33 visitors per day. But, and it's a big , that would mean 30,000 Israeli tourists had spent one night each in Pai, which is unlikely. It's more likely they spent multiple days in Pai. Moreover, the 30,000 figure is also shaky, as it allows for double-counting of tourists who visit Pai on more than one occasion. For example, if an Israeli tourist stayed in Pai for three days, went to Chiang Rai for three days and then returned to Pai for two days, that would show up as two Israeli tourists in the visitor figures. When the figures are adjusted properly, it's likely there are on average about200 Israeli tourists per day in Pai, which isn't an overwhelming number. Unfortunately, some Thais and farang have fallen for antisemitic nonsense. Whether that is the result of ignorance or ill-will is hard to know, but I would guess it's mostly ignorance.

ALL of Thailand is Buddhist, in that 94% of the population follows Buddhism. Are you suggesting non-Buddhists should give up practicing their religions when on a tourist trip to Thailand? Thai law allows for freedom of religion. Have you ever been to Pai? The super-loud bars, nightclubs, cafes and even some guesthouses fail to "blend in" with Buddhist culture to a far greater degree than the Chabad House. And how well do the farang, Indian and Chinese tourists "blend in" when they visit Pattaya, Phuket, Bangkok or anywhere else in Thailand? At least some of them "stick out" a lot more than Jews who visit the Chabad House in Pai. It seems you are being unfairly discriminatory against Jews, but hey, that's what antisemitism is all about.

It's not a question of nationality but of religious identity. Chabad Houses are open to Jews of any nationality and about 5,000 of them are located in 100 different countries. You have to keep in mind there are only 15.7 million Jews in the world, with 7.2 million in Israel and 5.7 million in the U.S. That leaves the remaining 2.8 million spread pretty thin. In many countries and cities, the Jewish population isn't large enough to support dedicated synagogues or commercial outlets for kosher food. Chabad Houses are therefore needed in these areas to enable Jews, especially observant Jews, to worship and follow a Jewish lifestyle. The Chabad movement arose in the 1960s as travel to distant places became more affordable and popular. There are also Chabad Houses to assist Jewish students on or near university campuses. For those of you who like statistics, the world's 17.2 million Jews make up only 0.2% of the 8 billion total population. That compares with 2.4 billion Christians, 2,0 billion Muslims, 1.2 billion Hindus and 500 million Buddhists. With 60 million adherents worldwide, Voodoo has more than three times the number of followers as Judaism. Claims of Jewish influence or "dominance" are, shall we say, exaggerated. The incident with the misbehaving young Israeli men has taken a very nasty twist due to classic antisemitism. If young Irish or Italian men caused a ruckus, Thai authorities wouldn't respond by checking the immigration status of foreigners attending a Catholic church. Same-same with Scottish or Scandinavian young men and a Protestant church or young Indians and a Hindu temple. That would be unthinkable. But because some residents of Thailand, both foreigners and Thai, are infected with antisemitism, false Internet rumors of an attempted Jewish "takeover" of Pai gained force and led to a "raid" on the Chabad House. It's sad that sort of mentality and suspicion of Jews is still rearing its ugly head today.

When Muhammad Ali returned to the U.S. after the "Rumble in the Jungle" against George Foreman in the Congo in 1974, a reporter supposedly asked him what he thought of Africa. Ali is said to have answered, ""Thank God my granddaddy got on that boat!" That's probably a misquote based on something George Foreman's manager said: "Thank God our grandpappies caught that boat!" The quote in one form or another is used to illustrate the fact that African-Americans prefer to live in the U.S., even though some consider it a racist society. Source: https://quotepark.com/quotes/1761571-dinesh-dsouza-better-off-the-point-is-illustrated-by-the-great/

Is the BBC now a mouthpiece for terrorists? Earlier this week, the BBC admitted it had broadcast an hour of primetime television narrated by the son of a Hamas terrorist leader. This connection to terrorism was not initially disclosed to audiences. This is a very serious crisis for the BBC. It means that our national broadcaster distributed terrorist propaganda to the homes of licence-fee payers.

You seem to be conflating two very different occurrences: 1) a crackdown on foreigners behaving in violation of Thai law; and 2) an attempt to close down a Chabad House that functions as a synagogue and community center for Jews. I have no argument with 1) as it is the right and proper thing for Thai police to do, but 2) is pure antisemitism. Any foreigner, Israeli or otherwise, should be punished for breaking Thai law, including lifetime bans on re-entering Thailand in serious cases. That has nothing to do with closing down a Chabad House which provides positive services. It's sure as hell better for young Israeli men to be worshipping in a synagogue and eating Shabbat dinner together than getting drunk in bars. It's a real stretch to believe the Thai police are taking action against all misbehaving foreigners by trying to close a Chabad House. One has nothing to do with the other and only an antisemite would want to close a Chabad House. Conspiracy theories don't enter into it; the whole reaction against the Chabad House in Pai is down to ignorance and prejudice on the part of a few Thais. Ignorance and prejudice have been behind antisemitism for centuries.

Egyptian NHS doctor who ‘glorified’ Hamas spared deportation https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/egyptian-nhs-doctor-who-glorified-hamas-spared-deportation/ar-AA1zvUqf?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=d68ccab33a4547e891834c7e06e0fbfd&ei=16 "An Egyptian NHS doctor who mocked Israeli festival-goers for fleeing Hamas gunmen on Oct 7 has won a legal challenge against deportation. "An immigration tribunal judge backed Dr Mennah Elwan in her claim that James Cleverly, the home secretary at the time, was wrong to cancel her leave to remain in the UK after ruling that her presence was 'not conducive to the public good'."

I'm certainly not making anything up. The Chabad House in Pai includes space used for a synagogue and prayer rooms. Denying Jews a place to worship is the heart of antisemitism. It goes back to the destruction of Solomon's Temple in Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar II in 587 BCE. In any time period, from Biblical days to the present, people who wish ill on Jews have attempted to deny them places of worship. @khunjeff gave you an excellent answer in his post. I agree with it: To emphasize what he said, the first Chabad House opened in 1993 in Bangkok. Since then, Chabad Houses have opened in Koh Samui, Phuket, Chiang Mai and Koh Phangan as well as Pai. They have served tens of thousands of Israeli and other Jewish tourists and none has been associated with any sort of controversy, You can read more about Chabad in Thailand here: https://www.jewishthailand.com/templates/articlecco_cdo/aid/301323/jewish/Chabad-of-Thailand.htm Punishing all Jews by denying them a place of worship because the actions of a few young Jewish men is indeed naked antisemitism. I totally agree the Israelis who caused trouble in Pai should have been- and were- punished appropriately. But to hold Jews collectively responsible for the misbehavior of a few individuals is a classic signal of antisemitism.

Opposing a Chabad House is raw antisemitism. That type of antisemitism has nothing to do with anti-Zionism or the conflict in Palestine. It is pure hatred of Jews and their religion. A Chabad House provides informal social services to Jews who are ex-pats or tourists. Its activities range from psychological counseling to celebrations of religious holidays. Chabad Houses function as "safe spots" for Jews while traveling.

When I lived in Pattaya, vitually every pharmacy I visited had both the nicotene patches and gum, both international brands and local, generic equivalents.

Jews who are serious about keeping kosher, whether from Israel or another country, only eat in restaurants which have been certified as kosher by a rabbi or rabbinic agency. It surprises me that Israelis would ask about kosher dishes at a pizzeria in Pattaya. It's exremely difficult to obtain kosher ingredients, especially beef, in Thailand. You can't make kosher food from ingredients you buy through normal restaurant food supply channels. Moreover, it's nearly impossible for a restaurant that serves both kosher and non-kosher food to be certified kosher. The restaurant would have to have two seperate kitchens and no equipment or utensils could be shared between them. How likely is that? However, far from all Jews follow kosher strictly. There's a sliding scale for observing kosher, from "very strictly" to "not at all." It's entirely possible Israelis who aren't worried about kosher would eat in a Pattaya pizzeria, but I doubt they'd ask about kosher meals. A kosher pizzeria in Jerusalem:

This is indeed a scary situation for British Jews, especially those with dual citizenship in the U.K. and Israel. If doctors feel strongly enough about the Palestinian cause to justify the slaughter of Israeli civilians attending a music festival as "resistance," isn't there at least a risk they will also regard fatal mistreatment of Israeli or Jewish patients as resistance? Suppose an IDF reservist would seek medical care while on a visit to the U.K. Would a Palestine doctor feel it's right to administer a treatment intended to kill, rather than cure, the patient? Two Australian licensed nurses, a male originally from Afghanistan and female of Palestinian background, recently threaten to kill Israeli patient, with the male apparently bragging he had already done so. https://aseannow.com/topic/1351586-australian-nurses-suspended-over-hate-speech-antisemitic-video-as-investigation-unfolds/ Threats of harm or death on the Internet are often dismissed as harmless hyperbole because they aren't credible threats- and rightly so. However, threats by medical professionals fall into an entirely different category. Doctors and nurses are in a position to cause considerable harm to patients. At the very least, the doctors cited in the OP are guilty of hate speech, which isn't a commendable attribute for a physician.

It's not a play on words, but as you say, reality, not semantics. A home region is a geographical area, while a home country is a political entity. A person can be born and live all his or her life in North America, Southeast Asia or Western Europe. They can be correctly described as North American, Southeast Asian or Western European in terms of national origin, but they can't be citizens of any of the three regions because they aren't countries or other political entities which confer citizenship. Same-same with Palestine and Palestinians. Before 1988- go back as far in time as you want - people who were born and lived in the area today regarded as historical Palestine weren't subjects or citizens of any kingdom or country called Palestine. But you knew that already. In the later half of the 19th century and first two decades of the 20th century, they would have been subjects of the Ottoman Empire, which didn't have a nationality law until 1869. During the years of Mandatory Palestine (1920-1948), they would have been British Protected Persons but not British subjects. After the British withdrew and the Mandate for Palestine ceased to exist, the citizenship of Palestinian Arabs became complicated. Most became citizens of Jordan, some became citizens of Israel and others remained stateless. The Palestinian Authority has issued "passports" since 1995. While they are accepted by numerous countries as valid travel documents, they aren't generally regarded as proof of citizenship.

Jack off or jerk of* the beaten track?

@Centigrade32 I was responding to the use of "Palestine" in a post that has since been deleted. I wanted to emphasize Palestine had never been anyone's homeland until 1988 when the PLO declared the state of Palestine, It could have been their home region, but not their home country. To discuss the entire background of the formation of the state of Israel- who owned what land when- is clearly off topic and I won't go there. But it does give me an idea to start a thread about who owned land and lived in Palestine before 1948.

Even more idiocy from Ye- Fox TV Condemns 'Appalling' Kanye West Super Bowl Ad for Swastika Tees: 'We Regret These Commercials Aired' https://www.thewrap.com/fox-ceo-condemns-kanye-west-super-bowl-antisemitic-ad/ He could be facing criminal charges as it's illegal in the U.S. to use deceptive means to get ads on TV.

And now they are stuck with him unless public outrage is strrong enough to cause the government to rescind his Australian citizenship.

You are confusing the concept of Palestine as a geographical region with a nation state. The source you give states (I bolded the text): "Although the Arabs of Palestine had been creating and developing a Palestinian identity for about 200 years, the idea that Palestinians form a distinct people is relatively recent. The Arabs living in Palestine had never had a separate state. Until the establishment of Israel, the term Palestinian was used by Jews and foreigners to describe the inhabitants of Palestine and had only begun to be used by the Arabs themselves at the turn of the 20th century."

This is serious. The cops are also investigating. Australian hospital examines patient records after nurse claims to have killed Israelis https://apnews.com/article/australia-bankstown-hospital-nurses-kill-israelis-4600438279d0a1e5b75f9a31a3108ff3 The male nurse, Ahmad “Rashad” Nadir, is from Afghanistan and the female, Sarah Abu Lebdeh, is Palestinian. https://nypost.com/2025/02/12/world-news/family-of-viral-antisemitic-australian-nurse-says-she-was-set-up/

It's not BS at all. The Royal Thai Police warned in November of a possible terrorist attack on Israelis at a full moon party: Israeli tourists face terror threat at Koh Pha Ngan Full Moon party Royal Thai Police (RTP) issued a spine-tingling warning, revealing that terrorists are targeting Israeli holidaymakers at the infamous Full Moon party on Thailand’s tourist haven, Koh Pha Ngan. In a bombshell announcement, the RTP disclosed that they’ve received info indicating a sinister plot to attack Israeli tourists at the island celebration. https://thethaiger.com/news/national/israeli-tourists-face-terror-threat-at-koh-pha-ngan-full-moon-party Local police quickly denied there was a terrorist plot aimed at Israelis. The warning may have been inaccurate, but it had indeed been made. Many Israeli young people attend full moon paties. There are hostels, guest houses and restaurants on Koh Pha Ngan popular with Israelis which would make niviting targets for terrorists. Moreover, terrorists have never been worried about killing others alongside their target group. The answer is "yes." The U.S. failed to predict 9/11 and the U.K., France, Russia, Germany and other countries have all failed to anticipate terrorist attacks. What point are you trying to make? Intelligence-gathering agencies can't reveal the sources of their information, that's a ridiculous thought. The best evidence of terrorist attacks is the number of people who have been killed in them. Since 1920, a total of 5,507 Jews have been killed in terrorist attacks in Mandatory Palestine or the state of Israel. The number since 1948, the year Israel was founded, is 4,822. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/number-of-terrorism-fatalities-in-israel And of course it's not just Israel. Since 1995, about 4,000 U.S. citizens or residents have been killed in terrorist attacks inside and outside the U.S.

I know you addressed your question @hotsun, but I'll answer as well. Kanye West is one of the top musicians in the U.S. His string of chart-topping albums helped earn him a fortune once estimated at $2 billion, maybe more. He became a famous celebrity with millions upon millions of followers on social media. Time magazine named him one of the 100 most influential people in the world on two occassions. All that makes him extremely privileged. His antisemitic remarks have made America worse for everyone. He contrbuted to the surge in hatred of Jews, which has resulted in violence under the "Ye is Right!" banner. I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:

"After Roman times the name [Palestine] had no official status until after World War I and the end of rule by the Ottoman Empire, when it was adopted for one of the regions mandated to Great Britain." https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine There had never been an independent kingdom, nation or state called Palestine before the PLO declared the creation of the State of Palestine in 1988. Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine had been offered a state under the 1947 U.N. partition plan, but the Arab League rejected the plan. What Israel took over on May 14, 1948, was the territory allotted to the Jewish state under the United Nation's partition plan for Mandatory Palestine, which at that time was under British control. Before the U.K. received the Mandate for Palestine from the League of Nations, the Ottoman Empire had ruled the region we today call historical Palestine since 1516 CE. Prior to the Turks, the rulers had been the Mamluk Sultanate; Ayyubid Dynasty; European Crusaders; Fatimid Caliphate; Mongol Empire; Abbasid Caliphate; Umayyad Caliphate; Rashidun Caliphate; Byzantine Empire; Roman Empire; Seleucid Empire; Ptolemaic Kingdom; Achaemenid (Persian) Empire; Babylonian Empire and Assyrian Empire. You have to go back to Biblical times and the Iron Age to find centuries in which people who were actually born in historical Palestine ruled the region. That would be the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah. .

Forbes estimated Ye's fortune at $2 billion in 2022, but said it dropped to $400 million because corporations cancelled deals after his antisemitic remarks. Ye himself claimed his fortune had been $3.3 billion. https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2023/04/05/heres-why-kanye-west-dropped-off-the-forbes-billionaires-list/

His antisemitic comments definitely do affect Jewish people. Because of Ye's prominence and influence as a rapper, many young people put his words into action. Jews were harassed and even attacked. Report: Kanye’s Anti-Semitic Rhetoric Led to Assaults, Vandalism "Yeah, do it for Kanye!" a group said while assaulting a Jewish man in a grocery store, one of many such incidents detailed in an Anti-Defamation League report https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/kanye-west-anti-semitic-rhetoric-assaults-vandalism-1234678236/ “Ye is Right” Antisemitic Campaign Continues The impact of Ye’s words continues to be felt across the country, including through vandalism and harassment incidents at K-12 schools, colleges and universities, Jewish institutions, public areas and commercial locations. Since October 1, 2022, there have been more than 10,000 Twitter mentions using or referencing the “Ye is Right” slogan. These posts have reached at least six million users on Twitter, garnering more than 22,000 likes and more than 5,000 retweets. https://www.adl.org/resources/article/ye-right-antisemitic-campaign-continues It's neither spin nor a smear. Ye himself posted on social media how the bipolar medication affected his thought processes and creativity, https://hiphopdx.com/news/kanye-west-claims-mentally-misdiagnosed-nearly-drugged-out-of-mind It is certainly possible, even likely, that Ye and other artists have had problems with agents, producers and others in the music industry. However, for him to blame these hassles on "the Jewish community" is no more realistic than blaming leprechauns or little green men from Mars. For example: During an interview on Revolt TV’s “Drink Champs” series that was posted and then removed on October 16, Ye repeatedly blamed “Jewish media” and “Jewish Zionists” for numerous alleged misdeeds, stating that “Jewish people have owned the Black voice” and that “the Jewish community, especially in the music industry…they’ll take us and milk us till we die.” https://www.adl.org/resources/article/unpacking-kanye-wests-antisemitic-remarks That's where Ye goes off the rails. You have me at a disadvantage; I have no idea who you are. Did you know me IRL during the years I lived in Thailand or only as a poster on various boards?