Evil Penevil

@pattayasan You are on very shaky ground if you are claiming an attack with knives and clubs on a Jewish youth team in Berlin is somehow justified by the misbehavior of Israeli fans in Amsterdam. Holding all Jews colectively responsible for the actions of some Jews is one of the oldest and worst forms of antisemitism. Amsterdam is 577 kilometers (359 miles) from Berlin and in a different country. That's hardly nearby. The youth team match was played in Berlin on Thursday, the same day as the match in Amsterdam. It's safe to say that none of the Jewish youths who were attacked i Berlin traveled to the Maccabi Tel Aviv-Ajax match in Amsterdam. Some advice: You are already in above you head.

Maybe you should understand that Israeli professional team Maccabi Tel Aviv and Berlin youth team Makkabi Berlin aren't the same team. The incidents to which you are referring took place in Amsterdam on Wednesday and Thursday, the attacks on the Jewish youth team happened in Berlin on Thursday. So explain, how did the youth team incite its attackers?

How did members of a Jewish youth football team incite a pro-Palestinian mob to attack them, other than the mere fact the boys were Jewish? There's no mention in any news report of the members of Makkabi Berlin provoking their attackers.

It's particularly disturbing that on the anniversary of Kristallnacht, Jews were once again hunted on the streets of a European city. Historians say Kristallnacht marked the start of the Holocaust. Let's hope things don't get any worse, but I'm not optimistic. Manifestations of antisemitism, including physical attacks on Jews, have reached the highest point in Europe and North America since WWII. What does give me some encouragement is the strong condemnation of Amsterdam's "Jew hunt" by leaders and organizations in the Netherlands, Europe and the rest of the world. The statements by Dutch King Willem-Alexander were especially insightful. He said the attacks were reminiscent of “dark and grim times for the Jewish people.” He went on to note: “We failed the Jewish community of the Netherlands during World War II, and last night we failed again.” On the flip side, what's extremely worrying is the attitude expressed by some posters in this thread- that Jews deserved to be chased and assaulted because of chanting and a torn-down flag. Chanting, even offensive chanting, is part of European football culture. Pulling an unauthorized Palestinian flag off the side of a building is a very minor offense that should have been left to the police. Same-same with harassment of a taxi driver. Minor transgressions by a few Maccabi Tel Aviv fans a day or hours before the match by no means justify a massive hunt for Jews by gangs of attackers on scooters after the match. The response is totally out of proportion to the so-called provocation. How many hundreds of times in the past 13 months have pro-Palestinian protestors chanted for the destruction of Israel and its citizens? Many anti-Israel demonstrations have involved pulling down or burning Israeli flags. Other than Jewish supporters of Israel, no one seemed very put out by such actions. Even when pro-Palestinian protestors caused millions of dollars of damage through campus occupations in Europe and North America, the response was very muted. In truth, the hunt for Jews in Amsterdam had nothing to do with football hooliganism. It was just one more example of the wave of hatred of Jews that's swept across the world. It's the rawest form of Jew hatred and anyone who fails to recognize that is deep in the ranks of antisemitism.

No, I'm not happy because I wasn't making the point slam is bad and Christianity is violencebest. I stated the core tenets of Islam condone violence as a means of achieving religious goals and those responsible for the death of Samuel Paty were acting in accordance with Islam. I am happy you don't dispute that point.

One of the Prophet's wives (Aishah) was six years when the marriage was arranged and nine when the marriage was consummated.

The Quran was compiled in written form by 650 CE and no text was added or taken away after that date. The First Crusade occurred between 1096 and 1099 CE, so nothing written in the Quran is directly concerned with Crusades. The famous "Sword Verse" (Surah 9:5) about killing polytheists "wherever you find them" referred to pagan Arab tribes with whom Mohammad's armies were at war at the time. This is by no means the only verse in the Quran which deals with violent conflict and warfare; there are many. Muslim scholars through the centuries to today are split over whether these verses are intended as historical descriptions of the times of the Prophet or are "universal directives" which Muslims are always bound to obey. No objective method exists of determining which opinion is "correct" because such a determination involves interpretation of divine revelation. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims, maybe millions, still use Quranic verses and hadith to justify acts if terrorism. Only a tiny fraction are active terrorists, but many support, sympathize with or excuse terrorism in the name of Islam. Al-Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, Boko Haram, Hamas, Hezbollah, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Houthis and hundreds of lesser known groups all claim to be obeying the Quran. The difference is that the "outdated" stuff in the Quran and hadiths has been collected in Sharia law, which forms the basis of the legal system of 19 Muslim majority countries and influences the legal systems of all countries with Muslim majorities. It's hard to know what you mean by "normal," but millions upon millions of Muslims still take the Quran very seriously as Allah's revealed word and the literal truth. Because of language difficulties, you may have confused "disrobe" with "defrock." The notion of a naked priest led away by a cop made me smile. The failure of the Catholic Church to deal appropriately with pedo priests has to do with the Catholic hierarchy trying to protect itself and nothing to do with the Christian Bible. It would be more relevent to ask which is worse: the actions of the Catholic Church in the pedo scandal or the actions of the government of Iran in aiding terrorist groups?

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Good analysis from a Jewish perspective. How the Amsterdam pogrom is—and isn’t—like Europe in the 1930s Also, it appears Dutch authorities had ignored warnings about how extensive and deep-rooted antisemitism had become in the Netherlands. Classic hatred of Jews is masquerading as anti-Zionism. Secret Israeli gov’t report exposes Dutch anti-Israel sentiment spiraling out of control Things have gotten really bad when a young Jewish woman has to cancel a visit to an Israeli restaurant and the Anne Frank House because of the risk of attack by Arabs.

"While the exact sequence of events remained unclear, the violence appeared to be the product of two combustible forces in Europe: the unrest that often accompanies gatherings of hard-core soccer fans and tensions over the yearlong Israeli military offensive in Gaza." Israeli Soccer Fans Injured in Amsterdam Attacks That Authorities Call Antisemitic Unfortunately, we don't yet have a coherent timeline or detailed account of what happened on the streets of Amsterdam. From the witness reports that are available and statements by police and Dutch authorities from the PM on down, it appears pro-Palestinian demonstrators did indeed hunt down and assault Jews in a shocking wave of antisemitism. It's very distressing that in 2024, Jews in a major European city have to be warned not to wear a Star of David, kippah or other symbol of their religion and to hide in their hotel rooms.

I don't know how you judge between "good" and "bad" religions. I'm not trying to label Islam as a "bad" religion. I am calling attention to the fact that use of violence to achieve religious and secular goals- such as punishing what Islam considers blasphemy- is one of the core tenets of Islam. The killer of Samueel Paty wasn't a "bad" Muslim, he was a "good" Muslim acting as his faith commanded him. This isn't the right thread (or board) for lengthy quotations from the Quran, Sunna and Hadiths. But here's what a mainstream academic type says about violence and Islam. Dr. Tina Magaard -- a Sorbonne-trained Danish linguist "specializing in textual anal­ysis -- published detailed research findings in 2005 (summarized in 2007) com­paring the foundational texts of ten major religions. Magaard con­cluded from her hard data-driven analyses: "The texts in Islam distinguish themselves from the texts of other religions by encouraging violence and aggression against people with other religious beliefs to a larger degree. There are also straightforward calls for terror. This has long been a taboo in the research into Islam, but it is a fact that we need to deal with." LINK You can find extensive proof of Islam's inherent advocacy of violence in these books available from Amazon: That's an absurd comparison. Catholic priests who molest children are acting AGAINST the tenets of Catholicism and, according to Church doctrine, will burn in Hell for eternity for their sins. Muslims who behead blasphemers are acting IN ACCORDANCE with their faith and will be rewarded in Paradise. xxxx It's not at all wrong, pragmatically or in principle. In a secular country like France with both freedom of religion and freedom of religion, Muslims are free to obey and venerate the Prophet Mohammad. However, they can't force their beliefs on others. The prohibition against images of the Prophet is part of Islamic dogma and doctrine which non-believers don't have to honor or follow. Muslims have to accept that it's perfectly legal in France to criticize or caricature any religious figure. If they don't like it, they should live in a country which does prohibit such caricatures. Paty was following a lesson plan that had been approved by school authorities. He gave Muslim students the opportunity not to look at the images of the Prophet. He did nothing wrong.

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Everytime you read of a crime like the beheading of schoolteacher Paty, be sure to keep telling yourself Islam is a religion of peace and the violence of Islam's followers is not inspired by their religion.

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Subway uses the master franchise system in Thailand, which means U.S. management is not directly involved in daily operations. In describing its plans for international expansion, Subway stated: "The master franchisees will have exclusive rights to manage and develop Subway locations in their respective countries and have committed to remodeling existing locations as well as opening new restaurants in the brand's current, contemporary image." https://newsroom.subway.com/2023-06-29-Subway-R-Celebrates-15-New-Master-Franchise-Agreements-Since-2021 The master franchisor for the country is expected to find local franchisees, train staff and enforce whatever terms were agreed with Subway regarding logo, decor, ingredients, products, etc. Subway signed a master franchise agreement with a Thai company in 2022, but a different company took over the master franchise on April 1, 2024. https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2777329/ptg-set-to-popularise-subway-in-thailand It's possible the hassles over declining quality and failure to live up to the terms of the master franchise depended on the inability of the first company to handle the situation. It's possible many Americans eat rubbish bread, but not because better isn't available everywhere. I live in city with 70,000 people. It's not a village but it ain't t LA or NYC. My local supermarket offers 50 varieties of freshly baked bread and rolls and about 100 types of packaged bread. On the fresh baked side, there's everything from U.S. favorites like sourdough, cornbread, raisin swirl, ten types of multi-grain and whole wheat, etc.; a full range of French, Italian and rye breads (German and Jewish); rolls of every size and description; and even Irish soda bread, Middle Eastern pita and Indian naan. Plus you can get bagels, croissants, brioche, muffins, American biscuits, etc. It's true families probably go for whatever packaged sliced white bread is on sale, but for those who want quality and variety, it's there. Moreover, I have a relative who lives in a village of 5,000 people and she can get freshly baked bread in her local grocey store. It's delivered daily from a bakery in a town about 30 miles away. She can order just about any kind of bread. A lot of Americans eat inferior food because that's what they are used to. But for anyone in the U.S., wherever they live, better options are always available.

No one is denyig that people who are Christian, Jewish, Hindu. atheist, Buddhist, etc. commit acts of terrorism. Islamic terrorists are the only ones who carry out terrorism in the name of their religion That's the crucial distinction.

Anytime an Internet poster refers to "the Jews" and describes what "they" do, it's a strong warning sign of antisemitism. Jews are not and never have been a monolithic group with one agenda. To hold elderly Jews entering a community center in London responsible for the policies of the Netanyahu government is raw hatred that goes way beyond anti-Zionism. You can see in this video how terrified the woman is. What do the pro-Palestinian protestors think they are accomplishing by terrorizing her? How is she responsible for events in Gaza? 0mq2SrGP5Z5jwLOb.mp4 https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/protest-jewish-woman-london-jw3-palestine-israel-police/

Your use of the word "discriminate" implies an unjust or prejudicial distinction in the treatment of different religion. There's nothing unjust or prejudicial about caalling out Islamic terrorism.

Yes, it's true I had no personal involvement in "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland. I'm not sure how that disqualifies me from learning the "full story," whatever full story means to you. I shouldn't have allowed myself to become distracted by the discussion of the IRA, since it's not central to the topic of this thread. I should have concentrated instead on the following exchange, since it pertains directly to the murder of the Swiss woman. I wish it weren't true, but unfortunately it is, especially for thousands of innocent victims. Evidence abounds of an inherent link between Islam and the violence of its followers. After reading the points below, can anyone doubt Islam and terrorism are intertwined? The fact that jihadis shout "Allahu Akbar" when attacking their victims is conclusive evidence in and of itself. The phrase, which can be translated as "God is greater (than all)" or "God is greatest," is a proclamation of faith used in formal prayer and as a battle cry. By shouting "Allahu Akbar," the jihadi is telling the world he is acting in the name of Islam. Osama bin Laden used fatwas, or religious rulings, to justify his attacks and to command Muslims to follow his lead. His fatwa issued in 1996 was called "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places". His second, signed by four other Muslim leaders as well in 1998, was titled "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders," and authorized Muslim to kill Americans and their allies, civilian and military, wherever they were found in the world. These fatwas were part of efforts that culminated in the 9/11 attacks in the U.S. https://irp.fas.org/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm Hamas and Hezbollah have charters, covenants, manifestos, i.e., statements of principles, that are written in religious terms. The Hamas Covenant of 1988 begins with, "In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah," and the Introduction states: "Praise be unto Allah, to whom we resort for help, and whose forgiveness, guidance and support we seek; Allah bless the Prophet and grant him salvation, his companions and supporters, and to those who carried out his message and adopted his laws - everlasting prayers and salvation as long as the earth and heaven will last." Article One says (my bold): "The Islamic Resistance Movement: The Movement's programme is Islam. From it, it draws its ideas, ways of thinking and understanding of the universe, life and man. It resorts to it for judgement in all its conduct, and it is inspired by it for guidance of its steps." https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp . The Hezbollah manifesto of 1985 employs similar language, opening with a verse from the Quran and stating Hezbollah acts "out of a religious duty primarily." It goes on to say, "The main sources of our culture are the venerable Koran, the infallible Sunna and the decisions and religious opinions made by the jurisprudent who is the authority on tradition among us." The "jurisprudent" is a reference to Iran's then Supreme Leader. https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/DOC_0000361273.pdf The Hezbollah manisfesto was published in several different versions and one of them states, "We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. God save him!" https://ict.org.il/UserFiles/The Hizballah Program - An Open Letter.pdf Hezbollah updated its "Open Letter" in 2009 and Hamas re-wrote its covenant in 2017. The goal in both cases was to tone down some of the Islamist and antisemitic language to make the groups more acceptable to international supporters, but both retained their overall purpose of jihad and political action in the name of Islam. Islamic terrorists have used violence against perceived disrespect of the Prophet Mohammad in text or graphics. The most famous instances are the fatwa and assassination attempt against Salman Rushdie for The Satanic Verses, the attack on French magazine Charlie Hebo and actions against a Danish newspaper for the Mohammad cartoons. Punishing non-believers for what's considered blasphemy under Islamic law is extremely disturbing. It's a total rejection of freedom of expression to kill authors or artists for expressing an idea. That's a real clash of cultures. You can imagine the outrage in the West if the Pope, Archbishop of Canterbury or Presient of the Southern Baptist Convention would order a hit on authors of whom they didn't approve. Millions upon millions of Muslims supported the attack on Rushdie and murders at the office of Charlie Hebdo. I could go on, but the above proves violence in built into Islam. Perhaps for you, but not for me. I will respond to posts on this topic as long as some BMS are laboring under misconceptions.

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xxxxx I know there were some, just as there were a few Catholic unionists. However, in both cases, it's a very small number and an obvious exception to the dominant trends. What does that prove? If you are telling us the vast majority of IRA members were Irish nationqlits who opposed British rule in Northern Ireland and the corresponding majority of Protestants were loyalists/unionists who wanted to remain in the U.K., that's never been disputed. Depends how you are using the word Protestant. If you mean Ulster Protestants, very, very few, but Protestants from outside Northern ireland faced no more danger than anyone else. Local Protestant unionists and loalists were the enemy, not all Protestants. In cities all over the world, outsiders can become targets in some neighborhoods, while they are both safe and welcome in others. The danger of a neighborhood depends on socio-economic factors that breed crime. I'm not familiar with the shooting incident, so I can't comment on whether it was motivated by relligion, personal grudge or some other factor. You keep ignoring the point that unlike Muslim terrorists, the IRA didn't have a religious agenda. It DID NOT act in the name of the Catholic Church, nor it ever seek to force the conversion of Protestants or give the Catholic Church and its members special status non-Catholics couldn't enjoy.

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The point is that the IRA and its members did not act in the name of the Catholic Church, nor were they primarily motivated by religion. The jihadis who shout "Allahu akbar" are motivated by religion.