Trumpish

1 hour ago, spiderorchid said:

...The US is possibly the most dangerous, uneducated country in the world. The upholders of truth, justice and democracy. What a joke

No argument about that from me. The USA is just another society that thinks they are God's chosen. One among many - not the first, they won't be the last. Yeehah! Ride 'em cowboy. Let's hear those spurs all of a jingle-and-a-jangle. As much as they Thais are delusional about their importance in the world, the USA is even more delusional. I remember an American psychiatrist telling me that 70% of the USA is dependent upon Prozac just to get through the day - cognitive dissonance is what happens when your belief of self doesn't fit very well with observable reality.

2 hours ago, Chama1 said:

Not sure if the low visibility of the police is abad or good thing. When they become visible it is usually to abuse those they are supposed to be there to protect.

On the other hand, I am quite sure that the cultural millstone around the necks of the primitive Thai society, is largely caused by their approach to social seniority and the rampant dishonesty which can easily be shown to extend from the very bottom of Thai society to the very top. Corruption is everywhere in Thailand, I don't believe it can be cured, it must be cut out, and that will be a very painful lesson for Thais in general. Starting with the police, which, with the Army are the largest criminal mafias in Thailand.

It's a useful exercise to ask what links the RTP and the RTA, and where both organisations learned that corruption was a really good idea. That Thailand considers corruption to be acceptable is amply demonstrated by looking at the reaction of the PM to his kid brother's dishonesty. Read them and weep.

3 hours ago, Swedenlars said:

... But after having read all the comments about the foul mouthed Thai there is no other conclusion that most of your are all probably old toothless old man, sitting at the computer in the house which belongs to your lazy Thai wife, bashing the Thais and doing nothing about your situation. ...

Not everyone would embrace the same solution, there are a variety of solutions, and each person will think they have the right one. And they do - the right one for them. My way is not yours, but it is wrong to look down on me (or anyone) for that, or to draw conclusions about me or my circumstances from the decisions which seem right for me. You might just as well try to draw conclusions about my religion, and in my opinion, you might get a better understanding of the Thai psychology of you explore exactly that, looking for the prime mover that causes what I believe is a diseased view of the world, a view which is directly affected by their inability to understand what you and I find more easy. The Thai education system is a disaster area, - just the way they like it.

7 hours ago, gios50hk said:

WRONG!! Thais not only consider themselves superior to all other Asian nations - but to everyone else on the planet! Thais are without doubt the most overtly racist people I have ever encountered and the way they treat (all) foreigners is an absolute disgrace.

I believe you are right. So. What might cause such a collective delusion? What are Thais taught that might lead them to believe they are superior to everyone?

Hint: They were not the first to come to this conclusion.

26 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Me too. The reason for this (as per my ex-Thai/Canadian gf) could be because I don't speak the language, don't read Thai newspapers and live like a hermit counting on my better half to do everything for me.

Good policy. Stay at home, sip the occasional sherbert and let the missus take care of any business with Thais. If she is Thai she has a natural advantage

3 hours ago, nasanews said:

Majority of Thais specially old ones are very nice people but Each rule has its own.

I understand why you think that, but in my view, the statment needs a slight alteration. To:

Majority of Thais specially old ones are appear to be very nice people but Each rule has its own.

In Thailand, many things appears to be what they are not. Make no mistake, in Thailand, a friend in need is a pain in the ass. See if they still seem nice if you need help with something not trivial.

10 minutes ago, nasanews said:

As people get older they get wiser and more humble except for low self esteem ones, they never progress.

Indeed. The entire pursuit of face, that many if not most Thais seem addicted to, is very likely just an attempt to bolster up their own self-esteem. In psychological terms, Thailand is home to a huge concentration of psychologically unwell people, and this is evidenced simply by watching the way they behave.

1 hour ago, Misterwhisper said:

As long as I have been living in Thailand, it's consistently and without fail been the same lame excuse the authorities brought forth whenever a controversy came to light or a problem was exposed - and regardless what the topic or accusation was. They have always (always!) hinted at obscure and ambiguous "recent improvements" that somehow slipped under the radar or were overlooked by researchers when they compiled their studies or reports. Everything is either swept under the carpet from the start or waved off and dismissed with the flimsy argument of "recent improvements" - although there were in fact none. Stubborn denial is an ugly and unsavory component of "Thainess," and nothing's going to change in that regard anytime soon.

Fully agree, though, of course, this dishonest behaviour is not limited to Thailand.

The exercise is as follows:

1. Hire a paid professional liar. Preferably male, in their 30's, tall, slim and good-looking (for info as to why these factors are important, check our instinctive reactions to various body types).

2. Evaluate his ability to suggest that a downright lie is somehow plausible.

3. Evaluate his ability to claim untruths without giving any detail which might betray their untruthfulness.

4. Evaluate his ability to create a facial and body expression that is highly sincere without going OTT

5. Ensure he wears audience-friendly clothes that suggest authority.

6 Train him to automatically adopt benign and viewer-friendly, non-aggressive gestures and poses (eg, no finger-pointing).

7. All set, tell him what lies to tell and set him loose.

Sad really, where the people we elect to represent us are more expert in the art of lies than the art of truth. Next time you see Sansern or Prayuth lecturing us all, dig a bit deeper into their techniques for telling lies in such a way that they sound like they *might* be true.

Thais are natural liars, in Thailand, the truth is always subservient to what is useful to say.

"What I see... this Jai-Yen and Kraeng-Jai is especially strong within the circle of those known, but once people step outside of this 'circle of those known' people stop caring, they stop respecting, they stop having any concern for consequence, they start thinking me, me me... "

You're exactly right. If a Thai feels he has a personal relationship of some sort, or if they think you are wealthy (and by implication think you can hurt them) then they are wonderfully (perhaps excessively) courteous and respectful. How much of that is genuine and how much is given in the hope that you can benefit them or fear that you can hurt them is a moot question.

If they don't think they have a personal relationship, or they think they are superior to you in some way, then you are chaff in the wind, sh|t on the pavement - write your own simile etc etc.

Our reactions to events are shaped by our culture, our parents, teachers and authority figures. Sadly, in Thailand, all of these sources of guidance are flawed. The culture is a millstone in so many ways, parents are usually parents because of biological urges and not any aspiration to raising well-rounded kids, Thai teachers are a joke and the education system is one of the worst in the world wile the funding is one of the highest. Authority figures are 80% likely to be corrupt.

So what can you say about this POS? He's as much a victim as the poor Burmese lady, but deserves much less sympathy because although he didn't choose to be like this, he's doubtless had many opportunities to make something better of himself, but he's been supported in his obnoxiousness by his own culture.

Unfortunately, that seems to me to be a wonderful metaphor for today's Thailand. One of un-seized opportunities to be better than what we all see today.

And it  will get much worse before it gets better.

12 hours ago, RichCor said:

The forums get this question constantly.

 

Wikipedia: Switched-Mode Power Supplies -- commonly used to power computers and electronic devices.

 

Due to regulations concerning EMI/RFI radiation, many SMPS contain EMI/RFI filtering at the input stage before the bridge rectifier consisting of capacitors and inductors. Two capacitors are connected in series with the Live and Neutral rails with the Earth connection in between the two capacitors. This forms a capacitive divider that energizes the common rail at half mains voltage. Its high impedance current source can provide a tingling or a 'bite' to the operator or can be exploited to light an Earth Fault LED. However, this current may cause nuisance tripping on the most sensitive residual-current devices.

 

So if your AC-powered electronic device doesn't have an actual  Earth-Ground connection the low-end energy normally bleed off harmlessly to ground by the EMI/RFI filter circuit then just sits there floating on the metal bits and pieces of the device chassis.

 

Short Answer:

Using a grounded plug point socket, or converting a two-pin to three-pin and running the third wire back to the CU (or a Earth-Ground) usually solves the annoyance.

 

 

That's very helpful and is pretty much how I got to where I am. I put in an earth stake for the computers, but didn't know how to test it and, as I now know, it was not good. Hence the original post looking for help. Even with that earth circuit, I was getting small bites from the USB housings. So. I reckon that to solve, I need to:

1. replace the original earth stake and wire so that is is effective.

2. add an earth wire to the chassis of all 2-pin devices (printers and external HDD mainly), using one of those orange plugs you san solder an earth line to, and plug them all into an earthed 3-pin power board rather than have each of them take up a 3-pin socket. Not much power required for each device so it should be OK. 

Might be overkill but I'm fed up with getting small bites and tingles from casings when I leave a printer turned on, and I've spent a lot on the equipment which I would rather not see fried. Didn't have this problem in AUS or UK, Thailand is such a joy sometimes....

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

Don't know if the following applies to the OP but thought I should mention it.

 

If I should purchase a ground needing device, eg a lathe or similar, I would not consider grounding the whole

house through a metal rod in the ground.

I would make an arrangement and supply ground to that device specifically.

 

This can be done relatively simply and cheaply, especially if you have water near your house.

(I have a longtailboat with a steel longtail by the house)

There is always 230V in the boat for maintenance charging the batteries.

Which turns the boat into a combined 230V-AC/12V-DC system.

 

Around the world, in marinas and harbours, grounding problems are plentifull and quite serious. They lead to shocks in the 230V-AC systems and in the 12V-DC systems metal components can be eaten up surprisingly rapid (ie propellers, shafts and what have you).

 

In shops supplying marine equipment you will find ways and means of tackling this.

There are relatively low cost components available that will purify your ground connection (in my case, the longtail dipped into the canal) and ensure that your ground needing device

is supplied with clean ground.

 

 

 

 

Many thanks for this. As it happens, this is (sort of) what I've had to do since the house was renovated and the electrician just ran 2 wires down the wall channel. Later the upstairs flooring was replaced, together with the downstairs ceilings, so ripping it all out to upgrade the wiring is probably not my first choice.

So. Rooms that do not require earthing stay with their 2-pin sockets. Rooms that have equipment in them which do require earthing (big fridge, microwave, shower heater, computers and servers etc - washing machine is outside with it's own earth) have separate earth circuits terminating in an  earthing stake outside. Now that I have learned how to test an earthing circuit, and together with comments from Crossy and all the others (thanks guys), I am much more confident that although the solution may not be elegant, the house is (or very quickly will be) safe for humans and equipment. Just a very few more things to do, including the the earth circuits that represented the original question, but I have the wire and the stakes to fix that, then it's off to the patio and a cold beer.

I've learned a fair bit from this thread, it's been very useful.

16 minutes ago, MaiChai said:

My first career was electronics and electrics so would consider myself knowledgeable and did my own electrics in my Thai house because most Thais havnt a clue.

 

If you look at UK consumer units, they typically have 2 rcb circuits; one for upstairs and one for downstairs. These are ultra safe, to the point where traditional light bulbs blow and trip them; this is a pain and requires a visit to the breaker box to reset them, BUT they are ultra safe and save lives!

 

With modern electrics, most things only have two wires, no earth, and have a plastic case; even washing machines. So the need for earth is much reduced. Some PCs have low quality power supplies and thats where you get the tingle off the usb. You could plug the pc into the mains the other way round to see if the tingle goes away? Personally i would use a laptop. 

 

Most Thai homes have no earth. With most electrical items having only 2 wires and double insulated via a plastic case; then there isnt much need for an earth? Unless you have an electric shower in which case you must have an earth. Some of the cheap showers dont even have a proper rcb; i would stay clear of these because i would not put my trust in penny pinching via the manufacturer! If you have one of these i would get it changed!

 

As a safety thing i turn the shower off at the breaker board; if it only gets turned on in the winter when it gets chilly and you need a warm shower. Mostly you want a cool shower.

 

I have seen some dodgy Thai electrics! For example live should be switched; but often the Thai electrician puts the switch on the neutral and thus does not understand electrics? The amount of times i have corrected this!

""With modern electrics, most things only have two wires, no earth, and have a plastic case; even washing machines. So the need for earth is much reduced. Some PCs have low quality power supplies and thats where you get the tingle off the usb. You could plug the pc into the mains the other way round to see if the tingle goes away? Personally i would use a laptop. ""

Can't abide laptops, if God meant us to use laptops he'd have given us 3 legs for better stability.

Could the USB tingles really be the PSU? It was bloody expensive... what else might it be?

1 minute ago, ChrisY1 said:

This dolt has been listening to Putin......!

Dolt seems about right, but I doubt he's been listening to anyone. He already knows everything, including how to avoid accounting for having assets worth 100+ million baht on a terminating salary of 1 million baht per annum.

There really seems to be no limit to the delusions this guy has. The collapse of the Thai psyche has already started, hence the burgeoning crime rate. Wait till they all wake up to the reality of the new Thailand.

So. They don't bother to consult the people who matter, they consult those who want to be consulted and (probably) only those who support the junta.

Then when it's finalised, they will try to bully people into accepting it and signing, then they will wonder why it has the reliability that most things Thai have. They really won't understand why it has no value whatever, but will trumpet it from the rooftops as though it does.

They don't learn from experience and then they wonder why the world doesn't change around them. I don't.

As someone else has said, it's a colossal waste of time, and the people who can do some damage to these clowns are just biding their time; they won't change either because they too are Thai and also don't learn from things that go disastrously wrong. Didn't go right last time but it's not our fault, it's someone else's fault, and it might go better next time. Same ole same ole.

Just now, RichCor said:

 

On this particular Consumer Unit, the MAINS BREAKER (far left) leads directly to the RCD (mid panel) then on to the individual Breakers (far right). The RCD is integrated in the design of the panel.

 

Usually the only way to actually verify is to take off the cover trace the wires and bus connection. But in this instance I think your good.

 

Just remember to press the TEST button every once in a while to make sure the thing is still providing the protection feature.

Excellent, that makes sense now. The only thing I can think needs doing right now is to move the microwave oven to an earthed 3-pin plug in another room, and away from the non-earthed 3-pin plug where it is.

Thanks again to one and all for the responses. Greatly appreciated.

1 hour ago, RichCor said:

So, now the question: Which Module??

 

As @Carlyai indicated in his post, an RCD can be placed in different locations to offer 'downstream' circuit protection. "Mains Breaker", "Split Panel" (some circuits, not all), "Individual Breaker" (only for that breaker), or even somewhere on a "Branch Circuit" (i.e.: the instant-on shower, fish pond, outdoor lighting, etc). 

 

Only connected wiring after an RCD is ever protected against electrical leak. 

You don't have to have whole house protection, but it's usually the easiest to implement.

 

So... where your RCD is located and what downstream circuits it's protecting is kinda important to identify. If it's only on one RCBO module, only the wiring connected to that module is protected.

Right. I thought I was making progress but now I'm muddled. Perhaps best to attach a pic of the Safe-T-Cut main panel (herewith):

I know that the cut-out works OK since we had a couple of shorts earlier this year as a result of some field mice nibbling at one of the downstairs in-ceiling cables, and that triggered the cut-off of all power in the house (the double-bar switch at the far left needed to be reset), but the relative location of the switches and the RCD module is something I don't quite understand. Perhaps the piccy will make it clearer. If advised by you guys, I am happy to get the thing replaced with a better model - I sympathised with williet98248 finding the contents of fridges spoiled!

14 hours ago, RichCor said:

Safe-T-Cut is a brand, but they primarily market Residual Current Devices.

 

If it has a 'TEST' button near a breaker, and when you press it the breaker 'opens' then most likely you have an RCD.

Thanks for this. Just checked and yes, there is a test button on a RCBO module . I knew that already, can't imagine why I didn't recognise it, I guess I just needed to be sure we were all talking about the same thing. Must be getting old.

Still, nice to know I already have what many are suggesting I should have...

Thanks to all.

1 hour ago, RichCor said:

OP, as aussie11950 suggests, please look at having an RCD (Residual Current Device) installed if you don't already have one.

Relying on multiple earth points rather than a dedicate earth ground wire directly connected to your CU is problematic.   

 

Having an RCD in place ahead of the Mains Breaker, or at least on circuits that might potentially involve water or human interaction, can save someone's life. Grounded circuits are only part of the safety equation.

Many thanks for this advice. I have a Safe-T-Cut but I suspect no RCD as you suggest. That shouldn't be too hard to get, but I think where the Junction Box is concerned I'll have one of the locals do it. With appropriate oversight.

Setting aside the dopey hand gestures for a moment, what this clown says speaks volumes about what actually goes on in his mind.

If any proof were required that people who are trained to be soldiers are not well suited for leading ordinary people, this guy provides it. Probably the only thing he is useful for.

Many thaks to all for your assistance. I think I got it in hand now, again, thanks to all for your advice and willingness to help.

Cheers

9 hours ago, aussie11950 said:

I would concentrate on getting an earth stake in ground that is not dry. Then connect to other earths.

Don't worry about N/L polarity, all appliances are immune to polarity reversal, just make sure a good earth is connected to the appliances with metal parts.

Microwave, computers fridge etc and your water heater.

Earth should be 2.5mm minimum, and consider installing an ELCB to your panel.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for this. I did the fridge already, washing m/c today, and I did fix the polarity on that one - pretty easy so where's the harm? Using 1.5mm wire. All seems OK, for the rest, I'll leave it at L/N and follow your advice not to worry about the polarity. Wish I'd known all this before I had the house built, relying on Thai tradesmen truly sucks. Though I'm sure there are a lot of super-competent ones, just none of them live around here.

9 hours ago, RichCor said:

OP,  are you creating individual earth points?

Does your CU / Breaker Box have a dedicated Earth Ground connection, and what distance. 

Yes, pretty much. If the guy who did the original job was any good he'd have run 3 cables in-wall and put a single earth line from the junction box. But he wasn't, so now I have to do each room where I want earthing individually. Luckily it's only the rooms with a new fridge (room already done by someone who wasn't a muppet), and the computer equipment roon (done by me, but I need to re-do with a longer stake and better wiring.

Living in Thailand has many advantages for me, but ready access to qualified tradesmen isn't one of them.

13 hours ago, carlyai said:

Can't you connect the room 2 earth to the room 1 earth stake and see what happens?
If all Ok, then make room 1 earth stake the main earth.



Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

Could do but that means running a cable in the wall (with consequent redecoration). Multiple earth stakes seems to me to be the easiest option. I fixed an external plug today and it all worked fine. Thankfully.