007 RED

 

OP…. Do a simple test for yourself.  Open your 2 passports at the photo page, then look at the bottom of the pages at the information typed between <<<< >>>> and see how long it takes you to spot the difference.

 

I would guess it took you about 5 seconds to identify that the 3 letters of your ‘country codes’ (USA – KOR) and your passport numbers and expiry dates are different.   Apart from that, both passports will have the same family name, first names, date of birth (in reverse order) and gender code (M or F).

 

When you hand your passport to the Immigration Officer at the port of entry, he/she places you’re the photo page onto a desktop scanner which read the information at the bottom of the page between <<<< >>>> just like you did manually.

 

So, when you presented your Korean passport on your first entry into the Kingdom the Immigration system would not have found any entry of that passport number in the database.  The system would then do a secondary check using your gender code, date of birth and names. 

 

As this was your first entry into the Kingdom there would be no record of you in the Immigration database and the system would then add your biographical information to the database.

 

When you presented your USA passport to the Immigration Officer on your second entry into the Kingdom the same process as I have described above would have automatically taken place.  Initially the system will identify that your USA passport number is not known to the database but when it does the second stage search it will recognise a match to your Korean passport (gender code, date of birth, and names).  The system will have established the possible link between the 2 passports within a couple of seconds.

 

You will be unaware of the fact that the Immigration Officer will have a ‘new/second passport flag’ displayed on his/her computer screen.  On clicking on the flag, the Officer will be shown the photos of you which the system obtained from the chips that are embedded in your 2 passports, together with your biographical details.  The Officer does a quick visual comparison of the photos and biographical data and if he/she satisfied that both passports belong to you he/she simply clicks on the button that then links the 2 passports.  The Immigration Officer will not normally tell you that he/she is aware that you have 2 passports as it is not illegal to hold 2 passports.

 

Because your two passports are then linked in the Thai Immigration system, each time you present either passport to the Immigration Officer when you enter the Kingdom, the Immigration Officer will be aware that you have 2 passports and have access to your complete entry/exit history.

 

When will you know if your passports are linked?   As has been indicated in post #18, when the Immigration Officer asks you "Why are you spending so much time in the kingdom as a 'tourist'?"

 

 

 

MODS..... Please Please keep a check on this thread and remove ASAP any videos of people being shot etc which are appearing on Facebook and other online media.

 

This is turning out to be another incident like New Zealand.

1 hour ago, Burma Bill said:

From my experience watching many arrivals at Don Mueng Airport, all flights were guided to the stand as shown below. I personally have never seen an arriving flight being towed to the stand - only pushed from the stand when departing. RIP tractor driver. 

Your correct, aircraft that are arriving do not have a tug to tow them to the stand.

 

Sorry, but whoever wrote this article for the Nation is a complete and utter plonker and need to get their facts straight before committing 'pen to paper'.

 

The accident happened at 08:00am local time.  The aircraft did not have any passengers on board as it was being towed from the remote overnight parking bay to terminal 2 gate where it would be made ready for a flight.  The flight in question as quoted by Nation was as Nok DD6458 scheduled to depart Don Mueang at 08:40 for Nakhon Si Thammarat.

 

Also the aircraft involved in this incident would not have been allowed to fly straight away, again a bit of fake reporting, as the damage would need to be thoroughly examined and repaired.  The flight (DD6458) did take off about an hour late, but a replacement aircraft was used.

 

R.I.P. young man.

40 minutes ago, SpanishExpat said:

That fact isn`t true.

You agree that there is no direct flight to Athens, so I take it that you think that arranging a flights to Athens via indirect carriers is not going to be a problem.

 

Under the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) rules governing the removal of deportation of persons, only the national carrier is obliged to return the individual to their home country.  In this particular case Olympic Airways does not fly into Bangkok so an alternative carrier who is willing to transport the deportee needs to be found.

 

If the national carrier does not fly to/from the country which is deporting the individual, then the ICAO rules indicate that the deporting authority may request that a carrier who flies a direct route from the country deporting the individual back to their home country to provide transport.  If there is no direct route carrier, the deporting authority may request none-direct carriers to facilitate transport of the person being deported.

 

In the case of a national carrier, they have no option but to provide transport if they fly the route in question.  However, in the case of a none-national carrier who flies a direct route, or a carrier(s) who fly a none-direct route, they are under no obligation to transport a deportee. 

 

You will find that most of the major ME operators are well known in the aviation industry for refusing to carry deportees because of: a) the legal obligations that are then placed upon them by doing so and b) the additional costs incurred in providing secure arrangements for the deportee during transit.

 

Hence my comment that the IDC appointed 'travel agent' will have to negotiate with the carrier(s) in order to acquire transport for the deportee.  Not impossible but it will be difficult.

 

FYI.... ICAO is run under the authority of the United Nations.  The International Air Transport Association (IATA) (which most airlines belong to) follow the ICAO (UN) guidelines governing the transportation of deportees.

17 hours ago, daveAustin said:

Any update, op?

If he has been transported from Phuket up to IDC in Bangkok, then the moment he was booked into IDC his mobile phone will have been taken away.  It will be returned when he eventually boards his flight out of the Kingdom.  So for now he can only communicate with the outside world via payphones which are available within IDC.

 

His first, and highest, priority will be to arrange, and pay, for a flight back to his home country - it is extremely unlikely that Immigration will allow him to fly to anywhere else e.g. a neighbouring country.

 

As @mtls2005 has indicated above, there are no direct flights from Bangkok to Athens and this will necessitate the IDC assigned 'travel agent' negotiating with two (or more) airlines to accept the OP for transportation.

 

Hopefully he will provide some feedback when he get back home.

1 hour ago, tcp7 said:

Okay guys, the plot thickens, have a good read:

 

Today after leaving the court we got a copy of the original verdict hand signed and stamped by the judge himself.

 

While I cannot read anything in Thai myself I forwarded it to a trusted translator for the French Embassy and she was baffled.

 

According to her, one paragraph reads word for word that I am a FREE man and am FREE to go wherever I please.

 

Yet these 3 immigration officers are forcibly escorting me to the IDC!?!?!

Is this an abuse of power?

 

They are working on their own agenda here and clearly not following the orders of the court.

 

I need a lawyer, and I need one RIGHT NOW!!!

OP…. According to your original post you stated:

 

“Fast forward to yesterday morning, the case has ran it’s course, the judge gave his final verdict which is as follows:

Since it is a minor offense, it is my first offense in Thailand and due to my health condition, the judge sentenced me 2 years of probation or a suspended sentence (I’m not sure what the difference is)”.

 

I believe from what you have stated that you were in fact sentenced to 2 years’ probation, but that the sentence has been suspended.  It is noted that there is no mention as to how long the suspension period is.

 

What this means that that if you come before a Court again (for any reason) during the suspension period, that Court will impose the original Court sentence of 2 years’ probation or possibly change the sentence to something harsher.  However, if after 2 years you have not been in any trouble that original sentence will not be applied.

 

Because you were given a suspended sentence, I suspect that is why the interpretation of the Court ruling indicates that you are “Free man and FREE to go”.

 

That said someone (police/immigration) has determined that your presence in the Kingdom is no longer desirable and decided that you should be deported.

 

The Deportation Act B.E. 2499, Section 6, allows that whilst applying for a deportation order a police office can arrest and detain the person subject to the provisions of the Criminal Code.  So this means that they can detain you in a place of their choice, which seems in your case to be IDC in Bangkok whilst they make the application for deportation.

 

The deportation process is not down to the local police/immigration officer.  They must submit a report to the regional commander stating what you have done and why deportation is deemed necessary.  They can also recommend that if deportation is granted the you should be banned for a specified period from entering the Kingdom after deportation.

 

I suspect that they will quote from Section 5 of the Deportation Act B.E. 2499, namely: “… necessary in the interest of public peace and order or morals,….”

 

If the regional commander agrees with the request/report, he/she must forward the deportation application/report to the Head of Royal Thai Police for consideration.  Again, if the Head of RTP agrees, he must submit the endorsed application/report to the Minister of the Interior for consideration.

 

It is the Minister of the Interior who will sign the deportation order and impose any ban if he agrees with the request.  He can also deny the request and order that you be released.

 

If the Minister signs the deportation order, you will be given a copy of that order and you will have 7 days from the day you receive the order in which to lodge an appeal.

 

If you do not lodge an appeal, they (immigration) still cannot deport you until 15 day as elapsed after you receive the deportation order.

 

If you appeal it will be considered by the President of the Council of Ministers (PM) who can uphold, or cancel, the Minister’s deportation decision.

 

In my opinion the process of obtaining a deportation order is very much a ‘rubber stamp’ exercise and in order to make an appeal you are going to need a very good and expensive lawyer.

 

I see from your latest post that you say a member of your Embassy will visit you on Monday.  Please don't hold out to much hope that they are going to offer a lot of help.  The same applies to all Embassies, they cannot interfere in the legal process of the host country.  I suspect all they will be able to do is put you in contact with a Bangkok based lawyer.  As I said earlier, he/she will have to be very good and that comes at a price.

 

The very best of luck.

The sale of poppy's in and around Bangkok at this time of the year is perfectly OK.  Happens every year at about this time.

 

In the UK most people wear a poppy for Remembrance Day in November each year to commemorate the ending of WW1.  The funds raised by the sale of poppy's goes to Royal British Legion (RBL) who use the funds to help support ex-service personnel in need throughout the world.

 

Thailand has a similar scheme which they call Veterans Day.  This will be held on the 3rd February this year.   There will be a service of remembrance at Victory Monument in Bangkok. The Thai poppy's are a little different from those available in the UK and the money raised goes to the War Veterans Organisation of Thailand (equivalent of RBL) to help ex-service personnel.

17 hours ago, Hiambruno said:

The plan is to leave to Bangkok IDC and wait there that will take from 4 days to 2 weeks ..

OP….. From your comment that, “the plan is to leave for Bangkok IDC and wait there that will take from 4 days to 2 weeks..”  I take it that Immigration has decided that you are going to be deported.

 

Firstly, you may well find that you will be in Phuket for some time.  Immigration will need to arrange for you to be transported from Phuket up to Bangkok.  This will involve arranging for a vehicle and officers to accompany you for the 12 hour road trip.  Don’t expect a luxury sedan to take you, it will more than likely be a wire caged pickup with you sitting in the flatbed.

 

Secondly, it is quite possible that they (Phuket Immigration) may well wait until they have several people that need to be transported to Bangkok, so this will also affect the time you will be in Phuket. 

 

That said, enjoy your time there in Phuket because where you’re going is not going to be so pleasant.

 

When you arrive at the IDC in Bangkok you will be ‘booked in” and all your personal possessions such as your phone, laptop, camera, money etc. will be taken away from you.  You will get these back when you are taken to the airport.  They will allow you to keep a limited quantity of clothing and toiletries.

 

If you have any medical issues, or need medication, make sure you tell them when you arrive at the IDC.

 

You will be allocated to a room within the centre and given a blanket and hard pillow.  The room normally holds 50 or more people at any one time.  There are no beds, you will sleep on the floor in very cramped conditions.  The room has overhead fans but no air conditioning so during the day it can be very hot and at night quite cold. There is a swat toilet at one end of the room.  The smell in the room can be overpowering to say the least.

 

You will be given 2 very basic meals a day and drinking water whilst you are being held in the centre.  If you have money when you arrive you can ask that some, or all, be credited to your account.  You can then use this to purchase better food and additional drinking water through the guards.

 

There are pay phones in IDC, and you will need to arrange to use one and pay with credit from your account.

 

Whatever you do, comply with instructions/orders given by the guards.

 

IDC will inform your Embassy that you are being detained there whilst arrangements are made for your deportation.  Don’t expect your Embassy to come running to your rescue, they won’t because they can not interfere with the ‘lawful process’.  Your Embassy will only make sure that if you need medication you are provided with it and they will also arrange for your relatives to be notified if you want them to.  Embassies generally will not provide funds to you.  They may, however, arrange for money sent from a relative to be credited to your account in IDC if required.  Some Embassies make a charge for this service. 

 

You can have visitors whilst you are in IDC.  However, Immigration will only allow your close relative, legal representative or Embassy Officer to visit you in IDC.  Your visitor will need to register with IDC prior to their arrival and if allowed in you and your visitor will be separated by dual fences about 1 meter apart in an open yard.  Your visitor can bring food, water, clothing for you.  They can also deposit money into your credit account.

 

Whilst you are in IDC, Immigration will carry out a risk assessment on you.  This will be based upon your conduct whilst you are in the IDC.  Provided that you have behave yourself they will allow you to fly back home unaccompanied.  If you are involved in any problems or disobey orders given to you whilst you’re in IDC they (Immigration) may decide that you need to be escorted during your return flight(s) and you will have to pay for the escort’s return flights and accommodation as well as your own flight costs.

 

IDC will arrange for a travel agent to book your flight out of the Kingdom.  This will be to your home country and you will have to pay the cost of the flight. 

 

Immigration normally require that your flight is a direct flight.  If there are no direct flights to your home country then the travel agent will need to seek consent from both Immigration and the airlines involved for you to travel before a booking can be made and this can sometime take a few days. 

 

You need to be aware that a single flight ticket often costs as much, if not more, than a return flight ticket.  Also, flights purchased at relatively short notice are usually very expensive.  You will pay for your flight with money in your IDC credit account, or with your credit card if you have one. 

 

If you already have a return ticket (to your home country), this can be used as part payment toward your new ticket, regardless if it is, or is not, with the same airline.  This may reduce the cost of the new ticket but not by a lot as there is normally a heavy penalty to pay when changing flights and dates etc.

 

Don’t expect that your outbound flight will be the day after you pay for the flight.  It is more than likely to be a week or more after payment has been made.  Once again Immigration will need time to arrange transport and escorts to take you from IDC to the airport.  Also, they (Immigration) try to arrange to transport for several people to the airport at one time.  You may well be charged for the transport and escort costs.

 

Prior to being taken to the airport you will be given back your possessions which were removed when you were booked into IDC, and any money still in your credit account.

 

When you are taken to the airport you will be taken to the airport detention facility where you will wait for your flight.  This facility will seem like a 5 star hotel compared to IDC.  An airline representative will come to the detention facility to ‘check you in’. 

 

Just prior to normal passenger boarding you will be taken to the gate by security staff and handed over to the airline staff.  The airline staff will keep your passport until you disembark at your home destination.

 

Please be aware that your passport will have a nice red stamp indicating that you have been deported from Thailand and the reason why (this will be in Thai).  It is also possible that the deportation stamp will be accompanied by a second stamp stating that you have been banned from entering the Kingdom for whatever period has been set by Immigration.

 

You need to also be aware that Thai Immigration will notify their counterparts in your home country that you have been deported, the reason why and your flight details, so it is possible that you may have a welcoming committee waiting for you when you arrive back home.

 

Best of luck.

I go to Ramathibodi (Government) Hospital in Bangkok for dental treatment and periodic checks for eye fluid pressure.  When I first attended the hospital (a number of years ago) Mrs MoneyBaht had me registered there using my 'pink card'.  Because she was a Government Officer (now retired) it transpires that I am entitled to a reduction in the cost of treatment at Government Hospitals.

 

When I give my treatment invoice to the cashier I also hand her my pink card which she inserts into what looks like a desktop 'credit card' machine.  A few seconds later the machine produces a receipt (again which looks just like a CC receipt) and this shows my 'pink card id number (6 738x xxxx0 08 0) and the gross cost of the invoice.  

A few seconds later the cashier's printer produces my final bill showing the gross cost of treatment, the discount and the final amount due.  After payment the cashier gives me back the original invoice, the receipt from the CC type machine (as above) and a payment receipt.

 

At no time during the payment process does the cahier use her keyboard, so I would assume that the payment process is activated by her inserting my pink card into her desktop machine which reads the magnetic strip on the reverse of the card (just like the CC machines did before having a chip embedded).

 

FYI.....  I also note that if I pay using a credit card the cashier uses a different machine to the one she used for my pink card.

3 hours ago, sencelebi said:

What that camera does on top of the roof, face recognition or what?

Spot on.... The camera on the top of the car, behind the emergency light bar, is a Tilt, Pan, Zoom camera which is linked to a computer mounted in the boot of the vehicle.  The computer is linked via WiFi to the new Immigration facial recognition database.

 

These cars have been deployed for quite some time.  I first spotted 3 of them parked in my local Immigration office (Nakhon Pathom) in January 2019 when I did my 90 day reporting.  I have subsequently seen them parked outside the local big factories who employ a large number of migrant workers as the shifts are about to change.

 

During a recent visit to my local Immigration office I spoke to one of the IOs who was about to get into one of the vehicles.  He was happy to show me the system and agreed to do a demo with me as a possible 'suspect'.  I walked about 150 meters from the car and then turned around.  According to my wife who was watching the demo in the car, my photo and details came up on the computer screen within a matter of seconds after I turned around and my face was picked out by the camera.  The picture and details on the screen were from my passport and the IO was then able to 'drill down' to my history.

 

As well as the facial recognition system, the IO also has access to a passport scanner (like those used at boarder entry/exit point) so that they can put the photo page of your passport onto it and read the data held on the microchip that is embedded within the passport to check if the passport is real or fake.

 

I totally agree with many previous posters, using 300 series BMW is somewhat over the top.  A bog standard pickup would have done the same thing at a fraction of the cost.  I know, there is unlikely to be worthwhile kickbacks from purchasing pickups.

12 hours ago, bbi1 said:

How many past entries into Thailand do IO's see on their screen at the airport when they scan your passport? Is it true that they can only see two previous entries into the country?

No, its not true that they can only see details of the past two entries.

 

Within a fraction of a second of the IO placing your passport onto the small scanner on their desk he/she will have your biographical details (which are held on the microchip that is embedded in the passport) displayed on their screen.  The biographical details are the same as you see on the photo page e.g. names, date of birth, gender etc.  FYI - Your photo which is also embedded on the 'chip' has been enhanced by your passport issuing authority in order to facilitate facial recognition if available.

 

This is why you will often see an IO holding the photo page along side his/her screen and comparing the details and the likeness of the photo shown in your passport with that shown on their screen against you.

 

Your entry/exit history is not automatically shown on the initial screen.  If the IO wants to look at your history (maybe because of lots of previous stamps in the passport) he/she has a range of pull down menus available, one of which will display the passport holder's history.

 

I have seen my immigration computer records, and it goes back to 1992 when I first came to Thailand.  It shows date of entry and exit and a code giving the type of visa used.  I'm given to understand that at some time in the late 1990s they (Immigration) had a blitz and transferred most of the historical paper records onto their computer system.