007 RED

10 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Who told you about the 99 years?

You wrote this make me think it was immigration in your home country.

Joe.... lt is more than possible that Immigration in his home country told him that he was now banned from Thailand for 99 years.

It is normal practice in deportation situations for lmmigration to notify their counterparts that an individual is being returned and the reason(s) why etc.  Given the language differences, it is highly probable that his home country lmmigration have got it wrong.

As has already been mentioned, it would be helpful if the OP could post a copy of the deportation notice he would have been given 15 days prior to his removal as that would not only clarify the reason(s) for his removal, but also stipulate any length of ban that is being imposed.

2 hours ago, moonhiker said:

007 RED, I'm a bit sceptical of anonymous people on forums who happen to have a lot of direct experience with the issue being discussed, who happen to meet the right person the other day (whom they've known for a long time) who again shows them in person all the inner workings, and they take the time to type in all the detailed story and solution. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling you a filthy liar, you might be indeed an honest, very knowledgeable and might be doing us all a huge service by sharing your knowledge. But I've seen people on forums that for some reason like to hang around a lot and type a lot of detailed, made up stories, for whatever reason (about which I won't even try to speculate). Some of them are more obvious, some are less so... So I'm just cautioning everyone trusting strangers on the internet too much, and getting into really long conversations over too legit-looking posts...

I have no problem with you being sceptical, or even someone implying that I may be a filthy liar.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

However, if you cast your mind back to my response (post #32) to your earlier post, I enlightened you as to my background in the field of eBoarder security.  Also, if you take the time/trouble to read through my previous posts (which I don't think for one moment that you will) the first thing that you will notice is that I'm not glues to TVF 24x7 and that 90% of my posts are directly related to eBoarder and Immigration issues for which I have considerable experience and knowledge.

Regarding the sudden 'friend' who I visited yesterday.  Again if you took the time/trouble to read some of my previous posts you will see that I have made mention of her on several occasions.  The family friend is actually my Thai wife's friend from when they both attended one of the very reputable universities in the UK to do their MBAs some 25 years ago.  When I met, and subsequently married my wife some 10 years ago, this person also became a very good friend of mine as well and both my wife and I meet her on a regular basis whenever we are in Bangkok.  It just so happens that she works for Thai Immigration and holds the rank of Colonel.  Her position has given me opportunities to see a side of, and insight into, Immigration that other would not normally be able to even comprehend.

PS... I love the ... your forgiven.

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

What exactly shows up on the IO's screen once they scan your passport?

If the IO manually enters your passport number into the system, he/she will have displayed your biographical information identical to that shown on the photo page of your passport e.g. Passport number; Gender (M or F); Date of Birth; Family Name; First Name(s) plus the photo of you which was last taken by Immigration (e.g. at departure or when obtaining an extension to stay etc.).

If the IO places the photo page of your passport onto their desktop scanner the scanner will read the information at the bottom of the photo page.  Certain characters and numbers in the two lines of information are then used as a key to unlock the first level of encrypted information which held on the microchip that is embedded in your passport. 

The first level of encrypted information is (or should be) the same biographical information as shown on the photo page (including you photo and signature).  It is the decrypted biographical information that is then displayed on the IOs screen. 

You will often see the IO hold up the photo page of your passport next to the screen and look at the passport, look at the screen then look at you.

The photo page can be changed, but it is extremely difficult to change the encrypted data held on the micro chip.  This is how forged passports are easily discovered.

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

How many "clicks" on the computer does the IO need to do to get to the history screen after the initial scan of the passport has been done?

Depends upon what level of authority the Officer has.  Some IOs can only do a limited number of tasks on the system whereas other are able to access a lot more facilities.  My understanding is that most Officers will need to go into 2 screen to be able to access the history facility. 

Access to the facilities within the system is obtained in the same way as you, or I, do when were using say MS Internet Explorer e.g. by pull down menus.

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

Also wondering how accurate those biometric scanners are. Say someone decided to scan the bottom part of their fingers the 1st time. The 2nd time they scan the top of their fingers. Surely the fingerprinting won't match up when scanning different parts of your finger.

I assume by biometric scanners that you are referring to the fingerprinting facilities at Immigration arrival/departures.

If you do not put your fingers flat onto the scanner the IO will instruct you to do so.  They see an image of the scan on their screen and can reject it if it is not done properly.

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

What happens if the 2nd country's passport has a slightly different name shown. Eg. the person has a middle name which consists of two words in the 1st passport and only the first word appears in the 2nd passport?

The system initially very much relies upon matching the gender code (M or F) plus date of birth plus family name plus the first of the person's first names when making a match.  But as you indicate sometimes where the person has dual nationality the spelling of the first name can sometimes be different, for example:

English = Peter   French = Pierre

English = William  German = Wilhelm

In these cases the system uses what is called a fuzzy match, that is to say if the first couple of letters are the same it suggests that this may be a match.  It is not always correct and that is why when the possibilities are shown to the Immigration Officer, it is his/her decision (with the photo of the holder) to link the passports.

1 hour ago, bbi1 said:

My passport doesn't have the birth date at the bottom of the passport of those two lines of code where you have all those <<<<<<< icons. Guess my government must've given me a fake passport lol

The information at the bottom of the photo page of your passport does contain your date of birth, its just not that obvious at first glance.

The top line will start with the letter P (indicating the travel document is a passport < a three letter Country Code of the Passport Holder (GBR = UK) the Passport Holder’s Surname << The Passport Holder’s First Name(s) which if more than one are separated by <

On the bottom line there is the Passport Number with an added number (called a check digit) Three letters of the Passport Holder’s Country Code (GBR = UK) Date of Birth (format = YYMMDD) plus an additional number (Called a check digit) Gender (letter M or F) Expiry Date of Passport (format = DDMMYY) plus a check digit <<<<<<<<<<<<< the last two numbers are the number of passports that have been issued to the holder by the issuing authority.

How that helps to put your mind to rest.

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 10:48 PM, London Boy said:

I know this isn't true because I was stopped and interagated at DM, coming back from Yangon in 2016. They printed out my entries and were looking for a reason to deny me entry. As we went through the entires, it was only my UK passport that history that was available to them. They did let me in on that occassion, as I was able to show a flight out within two months.

When I read your comment that when Immigration printed out your entries only your UK passport history was available, particularly given your extensive history of TV and ED visas during the past 6 years (which can be derived from reading your earlier posts). I was somewhat puzzled as to how you have managed to escape further scrutiny.

I first came to Thailand 29 years ago using my good old hardbacked British passport as shown below.

Since my first entry back in 1991, I have entered the Kingdom over 160 times using both UK and my other EU passport.  In fact, during those 29 years I have had 3 replacement UK and 3 replacement other EU country passports.

Not once during those 29 years have I ever declared to immigration that I have more than one passport, nor have I ever been asked if I hold dual nationality, and yet my compete entry/exit history showing the details of all my entries/exits, and which passports were used on each occasion, are available to the Immigration Officer to see through their history screen which I have seen on several occasions.

Yesterday I needed to go to Bangkok Bank HQ on Silom Road.  After concluding my business at the bank, I met up with a family friend who happens to be a senior Immigration Officer (Colonel) based at Immigration HQ office just around the corner.  During lunch I mentioned your comments concerning the printout of your history only showing data from one passport.  My friend was as perplexed as me, so after lunch I went back with them to their office and we did a few tests.

My friend entered my UK passport number into the computer and after being presented with my biographical details (as shown on my photo page) they ‘drilled down’ several layers to the ‘history’ facility. 

There, low and behold, was my complete entry/exit history going back to 1991.  The screen display showed every date of arrival/departure, passport number and country code, visa code/type plus quite a lot of other coded information.  On scrolling down from the latest entry, there must have been about 6 or 7 screen pages of data and it clearly included entries/exits using both my UK and my other EU passport.

My friend called up the print facility and was presented with a very comprehensive display of printing options which could be selected by clicking the appropriate ‘radio button’ on the screen.  These included: B&W, colour, greyscale, all pages or specific pages, single or double sided, portrait or landscape.  But most importantly there was a pulldown facility which allowed the Officer to select from several filter options e.g. all details or other specific details such as dates, entry and or exit only, passport numbers, passport country code etc.

The default setting was B&W, all pages, single sided, portrait, all details.  On hitting the print button, the printer spewed out all the pages of my history which included the details of all the passports (numbers) I had used to enter/exit the Kingdom during the past 29 years.

My friend then requested a second print out, but this time by selecting the specific passport filter option.  When this option was selected, my UK passport number (which had been entered at the start of this experiment) was automatically displayed in the filter box.  On Hitting the print button, the printout only showed my entry/exit history when I used my UK passport.

My friend repeated the test using my other EU country passport.  This time it was necessary to physically over type my UK passport number which appeared automatically when the passport filter was selected.  Again, the printout only provided entry/exit data relating to my other EU passport.

It was noted that when a new print request was made, the printer options always reverted back to the default settings.

My friend contacted the IT support team and described your scenario to them e.g. the printout only showing your UK passport entry/exit history.  They (IT support) advised that several years ago there was a bug within the print module which did not reset the default settings once a print had been executed.  They indicated that if someone else request a print on the same computer and did not check the pull-down filter setting they would end up with possibly the same filtered printout e.g. using the passport number that was entered at the beginning of the enquiry.  Apparently this bug has been fixed by the software supplier several years ago and hence the reason why we could not replicate the same result as you described.

From your description, I would suspect that this occurred before the print bug was rectified and whoever had requested a printout previously used the filter facility and the Officer checking your details did not notice the filter setting was set to current passport number only.  Hence, when the Officer having entered your UK passport number to start of his/her the enquiry then requested your history printout, the printer only showed your entry/exit history relating to your UK passport.

As I said in my previous post, the Immigration system is not dumb and is very capable of linking passports together.  This is a very basic requirement within the Immigration community throughout the world.  If a linking facility did not exist within the system that would mean a person who was banned from entering a country for whatever reason would only needs to get a new passport to be able to re-enter without being detected.  That just does not happen.

FYI.... The system used by Thai Immigration is currently used by over 40 other countries throughout the world.

I’m extremely confident that your two passports are linked, and I’m sorry to say that it will only be a matter of time before you are faced with further questioning as to why your spending so much time in the Kingdom.  That said, “a millionaire (£)” like yourself should have no problem explaining it to the IO.

Best of luck.

Many thanks for the update.  Glad to hear that your time in IDC was not as bad as you had expected and that you are now on your way back home.

Best of luck for the future.

1 hour ago, London Boy said:

Before September 2019, I could have confidentally siad they do not link your passports, otherwise I wouldn't have lived here so long. 

I can assure you that your two passports are linked within the Immigration system.  Please read my post #20 for details of how its done.

FYI....  The fact that Immigration are now using fingerprinting on arrival/exit will not affect how the system links two computers together.

There's nothing wrong or illegal about having two passports provided they are your own and you always remember when leaving to hand the same passport to the IO as you used to enter.

Given your long term stay within the Kingdom, the problem will possibly come when the IO decides to look at your entry/exit history which involves him/her having to drill down several layers into the system.  Your history is not automatically displayed when the IO scans your passport.   In the history screen the system will display your entry/exit history in cronological order from both passports.

The IO wont be concerned about you having two passport, but may want an explaination as to why you have spent so much time in the Kingdom.

5 hours ago, legend49 said:

My Australian colleague is also located in west Africa  is head of security of 4 mines and has spent all his life in " global security work" . He shows me an app on his PC that is a global database that has every persons travel listed once you enter details. So we put my Aussie passport number in, OMG it listed places I forgotten I had visited plus it showed details of my UK passport and travel. That's all I am going to say , have a happy trip and pray no smart ##s immigration person does a thorough check on your arrival.

Sorry, but there is no such facility that will give you, or anyone else, the details of all your past travel by just entering your passport number into a computer app.

The only people (or should I say companies) that would have details of your past individual travel arrangements would be the separate airline/ferry/train companies, with whom you have travelled.   This being the case, what you are suggesting is that all these companies’ computer databases are in some way linked and that anyone can just tap in a passport number and see where that person has travelled.

Sorry but not a ‘cat in hells’ chance.  Firstly, no travel company is going to share your travel data with their competitors for obvious commercial reasons.  Secondly, most countries have data protection laws which limit, if not prevent the sharing of personal data without good or lawful cause.  Thirdly, linking all these hundreds of thousands of travel company database throughout the world would be a logistical nightmare and the bandwidth needed to complete just one search would probably bring down the internet

Of course another conspiracy theory is that every countries’ immigration database are linked and that anyone can just enter a person’s passport number and see which countries someone has been too.  Again, not a ‘cat in hells’ chance of such a facility existing.  Governments do share information for national security reasons but only on a case-by-case basis and they would certainly not give access to such information to any member of the public via an app.

FYI…. I spent over 10 years of my life as a principle co-ordinator on the joint NSA – GCHQ eBorder project following 911.  My contribution to this project included overseeing the design, development, testing and installation of various eBorder systems such as machine readable travel documents, ePassports (so called biometric passports) and the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS).  Following my retirement from the project I have continued to work with both national security agencies on a consultancy basis and to this date I’ve never seen or heard of such an app as you describe. 

If such an app does exist, please share the details as I’m sure every TV member would love to access it.

2 hours ago, CGW said:

The Pilot is the only person permitted to "drive" the plane when being towed so obviously he was in "control" of the brakes, the vehicle doing the towing was in "command"

A 'pilot', as in a person who is licenced to fly that particular type of aircraft does not need to be in the cockpit when an aircraft does not have any passengers on board, is not under power and being towed, as in this case from a remote parking stand to the terminal building.

It is perfectly acceptable for a member of the ground staff to be sitting in the left hand (pilot's) seat provided that that person has been trained and certified to undertake the task. 

Normally that person will be a technician and their function will be to start up the Auxiliary Power Unit to provide electrical power for lights (when necessary) and for the electric motor which provided the necessary pressure for the hydraulic systems (brakes).  He is also responsible for releasing and applying the parking brake, checking the hydraulic pressure gauges and maintaining a lookout during the tow.

Braking during towing is normally the responsibility of the tug driver.  This has to be done very gradually as a sudden or sharp braking can lead to the nose wheel assembly being damaged.

Depending upon individual protocols, either the tug driver or the person in the left hand seat will be solely responsible for communications with ATC to obtain clearance for ground movements etc.  In the case where the person in the left hand seat is responsible for ATC comms, the tug driver must have facilities to overhear these comms.

The person in the left hand seat is not responsible for steering the plane whilst the tow bar is attached, that is the sole responsibility of the tug driver.

2 minutes ago, Brigand said:

My Mrs says he's posting on Facebook whilst he's doing this ... an example of it is a post about him saying his trigger finger is getting tired. Geez man ... not good.

Mrs MoneyBaht reports the same.... he's streaming live on Facebook... now reports 14 dead and many wounded.

32 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

An unfortunate incident.

Comments have been made that the report 'incorrectly states' that the aircraft was being towed to a disembarkation point. I don't know if the report is true or if the commenters are correct.

I cannot see passengers or steps in place in the photographs. 

One commenter says a tow bar break is a rare occurrence, which, in my experience, it is. But it does happen. There is a shear pin in the bar, designed to break before tug pulls the nose landing gear off the aircraft.

There is normally a person on the flight deck, briefed to operate the brakes. Tug drivers normally signal by horn toots. It does help enormously if the brake system is presurised. Pumping and releasing the brakes on an aircraft a couple of times will depressurise the system, unless the system is kept pressurised.

The tug driver may well have signalled the brake man on the flight deck and expected the aircraft to stop. 

When I was learning tug driving, I was told if the pin breaks, if it's a push, stop, if it's a pull, drive away in the direction of travel if you can. In both cases, blowing the horn, or shouting or both, so the brake person can see whatever is happening.

 

RIP tug driver. 

 

Scott, I agree with your comments but having seen the video of this incident several times this morning on various TV news channels I have a horrible feeling that the tug was possibly exceeding the speed limits for a manoeuvre he was about to make.

The plane was being towed from its remote overnight stand along taxiway K and was due to make a left turn onto taxiway H.  From the video, it looks to me as though tug and plane were moving fairly quickly along the straight taxiway (K) and the tug driver left his braking very late to slow the palne down before making the left hand turn.  The 66 Ton aircraft appears to push the tug as the tug begins the left hand turn.  The momentum of the aircraft would want to continue in a straight line but the tow bar would have prevented this and the plane can be seen to suddenly swing left.  It almost looks like the tug and plane 'jack knifed' causing the tug to stop and the plane then rolling over the tug.  The tug is seen on several photos wedged under the left hand side of the aircraft fuselage.

Other photos that I have seen show the tow bar is intact but completely removed from the tug and the aircraft and it is bent at about a 30 degrees which may indicate that it did not just break lose from the tug/aircraft during the tow.

The photo below show the position of the tug and the tow bar (just in front of the right hand wheels).

28 minutes ago, yogavnture said:

the most shocking thing is that only a couple of vehicles around the incident.  dont most airports have full time fire rescue..........?  i dont see any of that around the incident.  what if a real big incident happens at don mueng.  will their be a response or only police in a pick up truck?

As stated in the above post, some bad reporting by the Nation.

Within a few minutes of the incident occurring at 08:00am the plane was surrounded by emergency vehicles as may be seen below.

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2020 at 10:57 PM, BritTim said:

Yes, there are discrepancies in his timeline. Issues started about a year ago, he left for half a year, returning on visa exempt + extension, then court proceedings lasted eight months. Everything more or less lines up if court proceedings lasted six months. I suspect a sloppy post rather than deliberate misinformation, but cannot be sure.

Tim…. I think that you are being very generous when you say, “I suspect sloppy post rather than deliberate misinformation, but cannot be sure”.

As an old fart, I had my annual flue injection a couple of weeks ago and as a result towards the end of last week I’ve have been suffering from mild flue symptoms (no not the corona virus) so stayed at home over the weekend.  I know this will sound sad, but with nothing better to do, I read through the OP’s 222 pervious posts.

Sorry to sound so sceptical, but I believe that there is far more to his ‘story’ than he has revealed in this current thread and I doubt very much that his arrest and possible deportation has anything to do with one day overstay.  

There are far more ‘holes’ in his posts than there are holes in a 'M&S string vest'.  His various stories read like the script from a Thai TV soap.

Obviously he has gone very quiet, possibly if his current story is to be believed, his mobile phone was taken away when he was booked into IDC.  Maybe he will report back once he’s back to France, then again it would not surprise me that he suddenly reappears with a story that he was released from IDC because Immigration had made a terrible mistake.

Maybe a case of watch this space for the next intriguing episode.

On ‎2‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 10:10 AM, Pib said:

So, where you say they inserted" your card which implies the card has a chip, maybe you really meant they "swiped" the card or maybe you really didn't see how they used the machine to read the card....that is, inserted or swiped it....you just know they used a machine to read the card.

FYI.... I am fairly tech savey, and know the difference between a card being swiped and inserted.  Also, with 20/20 vision and being only a few feet away from the cashier, I was clearly able to observe what she did with my pink card, and I can 100% confirm that she inserted the card into a card reader on her desk.

I have investigated the data held on my pink card magnetic strip (using a swipe reader linked to my desktop PC) and only track 1 is used, and that only contains the 13 digit ID number.  There is no other data held on the magnetic stripe.

If you do a search on Google (Magnetic card readers) you will find that most devices are of the swipe type but there are some that are insert only.

23 hours ago, Pib said:

That is true....forgot all about that. The swiping motion is done when the machine sucks the card in. 

 

It's just I never seen such a machine that a checkout clerk uses....they have always manually swiped the card through their machine....or sometimes located on the checkout clerk's monitor....or sometimes on a keyboard like at a bank.   Like at Bangkok Bank I sometimes go in to transfer money from an acct that requires me to physically visit the branch to do a transfer (it's a special direct deposit acct for US govt payments) to another acct.  In order to complete the transfer the bank clerk "swipes" his/her employee card thru a reader on their keyboard and then continues the transfer.

Also, many hotels these days use access cards for guests to open the door to their room.  These cards, more often than not, have a magnetic stipe on the rear which when inserted into the door device is read and if the data on the stripe is correct the door is opened.  Again, these devices tend to only use track 1 of the magnetic stripe so can be fairly easily cloned.