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Posts posted by 007 RED
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On 4/24/2019 at 8:10 PM, bazzer said:
Thankyou for your useful information, my son has now be held for 22 Days since his arrest, most of this I believe is because of Thai Holidays, he has now been held I IDC in Bangkok since 14 April, he has committed no other crime other than his overstay, (he was approached by 2 plain clothed police officers whine he was out, he was pointed out by an unknown female,) he has paid fine for this, I am in regular contact with embassy, they tell me that once he has been processed ie, blood test, finger prints etc, then flight can be arranged, (funds are in place) they also tell me that my son will be visited by them this week, they will have phone with them and he will be allowed to speak to me, this has been an absolute nightmare for us, and I dread to think what he may be going through.
As a few other TV members have said, many thanks for the update on your son’s situation. Sorry to hear that his repatriation is taking much longer that both you, and no doubt he, were hoping for.
Regrading your subsequent comment that nobody from the Embassy has visited your son at IDC since his arrival two weeks ago. I would agree that this lack of support is not very good.
FYI….. IDC are supposed to notify the Embassy within 24 hours of your son’s arrival. It is possible, for example, that if he arrived at the IDC late on a Friday afternoon they would not have officially notified the Embassy until the following Monday.
It also needs to be borne in mind that there have been two holidays here, almost back-to-back. Namely, Songkran (Thai/Buddhist New Year) followed by the Easter holiday both of which would have affected Immigration and Embassy staff to one degree or another.
Hopefully this week you will have some good news that his flight back to the UK has been booked and that you will soon be able to give him a clip around the lughole for causing you so much grief.
Please keep us updated on his progress as its always nice to know the final outcome.
PS.
Please also bear in mind that Civil Servants (Consular Staff) only have two speeds. Namely, dead slow and stop. Urgency does not exist in their vocabulary. ????
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Did my 90 day reporting at Nakhon Pathom Immigration office this morning. Long poster with BJ pictures and vision statements stretched above the four officer's desks and big 'No Tip' signs behind each of the officer's desks.
Also he is still featured on the home page of their website http://nakhonpathom.imm.police.go.th/
Have to say all the front office staff are always very friendly and give great service. Did my 90 day reporting in less than 10 minutes for time of walking in to walking out the door.
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22 minutes ago, UKJASE said:
here is an update guys - the OP's son / my friend was in touch this morning. after being moved to prachuap immigration holding cells on thursday, he was finally on the road this morning, heading to the IDC in bangkok.
He gets his phone every now and again (about once every two days at present) and sent some messages out whilst enroute to bangkok. he said he had been treated well in prachuap, and sounded in good spirits.
He has now been held about 10 or 11 days, so hopefully this is the final leg of his deportation, and he is back home very soon.
I have the money here for his flight and overstay fine, from his dad, so just waiting for the call as to where to send the cash
good on you all for helping out and showing his dad lots of support and concern ????
Thanks for the update.... Good to hear..... hope he can get a flight back to the UK ASAP.
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1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:
Well hell if it's public knowledge,post a link
As he said.... "you need to log into VPN".... highly classified BS..... so if he gave you the link he would have to kill you.
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1 hour ago, Jim7777 said:I’ve seen reports actually on this forum from people literally inside Immigration Detention posting about it and saying that they were currently in there at the moment they posted. I saw one guy on here from somewhere in Europe I forgot which country he was from posting on the forum from inside an Immigration Detention cell. He actually posted a picture of what he referred to as “the prison room” he was currently in. Well, the picture he posted of his “prison room” looked more like a college dormitory room. I even remember commenting that his so called “prison room” looked better than some of the living conditions for a lot of Thai people.
Again I don’t know about IDC I’ve never been there I live here legally and I’ve never known anyone who’s been in there. All I know about IDC is what I’ve seen posted online. And it doesn’t sound like the conditions in IDC are that bad at all, nothing at all like an actual Thai prison which is really horrible. But I don’t know maybe IDC has different facilities maybe some of their facilities are better and maybe some aren’t so nice. I’ve only seen a few reports online about IDC, and I’ve never heard that it’s like a real Thai prison.
I do know that Thai prisons really are everyone’s worst nightmare but I’ve seen a lot posted about IDC that didn’t seem that bad and I’ve read a lot of posts from people actually in IDC who still had their cell phones with them actually inside the IDC cell.
It didn’t sound like the Hilton or the Marriott or any place I’d want to be but it didn’t at all sound like how 007 Red described it, but like I said I don’t know how IDC works if you end up in that system so I could be wrong. I just know what I’ve seen people post in the forum actually from inside Immigration Detention. I at least do know that there have definitely been people inside IDC who had their smartphones, that is at least true for sure. I can’t personally speak to what it’s like in there because I’ve never been in there but I have seen reports that are very different from what 007 Red described.
The answer to your question is that their phones are with them, I’ve actually read posts on this forum from people posting from inside Immigration Detention. But of course there maybe different IDC facilities with different rules I don’t know that’s not exactly something I keep up with lol are the conditions in Immigration Detention.
Jim7777 …. I applauded you for trying to help the OP resolve the problem with his son, but with all due respect yesterday you regurgitated the same information, namely the contact telephone numbers for the British Embassy, and how urgent it was that the OP should contact them, in 11 posts.
As it turned out, one of those phone numbers was for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London. Sorry but the repetition was becoming a little boring to say the least, and served no useful purpose to the OP.
Forgive me, but you now have started repeating what you posted yesterday about how you have read that the IDC is a nice place and the photos that you have seen of the detention facility.
I, and other TV members have already advised you that the photos you have seen in a different post were taken in the detention facility at either BKK or DMK airport. These facilities are not run by Immigration, they are run by the airport authority and are in no way representative of the conditions in the main Immigration Detention Centre (IDC) in the centre of Bangkok.
The detention facilities at the airports are primarily for short term stays for passengers who have been refused entry into the Kingdom and are awaiting to be flown out. Yes, compared to the IDC facilities in central Bangkok they are almost 5 star. Yes, individuals held in the airport facilities are allowed to keep their personal possessions with them (including their mobile phone, laptop etc.), except their passport which is held by security and handed to the airline staff prior to departure. FYI … The airport authority bills the individual about 800 THB per day for their stay plus cost of meals etc.
I appreciate that you have not been to the Immigration Detention Centre in Bangkok so, therefore, you haven't had any first hand experience of this 'wonderful' facility. Please take it from me thatt it is your worst nightmare, a real ‘hell hole’. As I said to you in a previous post, it is somewhere that you would not wish your worse enemy to be incarcerated in, and that is saying something.
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4 hours ago, JackThompson said:
Some report being taken to an ATM by the guards (for a fee, of course).
I think someone was telling 'porky pies'. The nearest ATM to the main Immigration Detention Centre in Bangkok is about half a km away, in the busy financial district.
I can imagine the detainee wearing an orange jump suit, handcuffed and shackled (ball and chain) being escorted by 2 armed guards to the ATM down busy pavements with his ATM/CC clenched between his teeth.
Just did not happen.
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9 hours ago, gk10002000 said:
So how do detainees make calls or contact if their phones are not with them?
FYI .... Whilst the OP's son is in the custody of the police in Hua Hin he would be allowed to have his phone and make calls so long as the phone has enough charge and credit. Once he is transferred to the iDC in central Bangkok all his possessions will be taken away, including his phone.
If a detainee wishes to make a phone call there are 'pay phones' available that use special tokens. The tokens are obtained from the admin office and the cost of the tokens are debited against the detainees account. No money in the account means no token and hence no phone call.
The reason for taking away detainees phones is to prevent detainees taking photos of the inside of the IDC. Something that the authorities don't want circulating on social media.
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4 hours ago, Skallywag said:
I would be interested in knowing how the "son" is communicating with the OP? How would the "son" make an international phone call from Jail? Will UK embassy help with communication?
Someone mentioned getting 40,000 baht to the "son" in jail -you wouldnt want to do that to someone in a cell with 20-40 other inmates correct? I assume you would go to the detention center/jail and ask to pay the person's fine? How would the "son" make flight arrangements from jail? Someone else would make the flight arrangements while he is in jail correct?
FYI ..... The OP's son was apprehend in Hau Hin and presumably initially taken to the local police station and put in a holding cell. At that stage his personal possessions, including his phone, would not be taken away. Hence he would be able to call his parents or others so long as his phone had enough charge and credit. His possessions will however be taken away once he arrives at the IDC in Bangkok.
Regarding funds to facilitate the OP's son's return to the UK once he has been transferred to the IDC in Bangkok. All money is taken away from the detainee when they arrive at IDC. The money is held an account under the detainee's name by the IDC admin department. Any money sent for his air fare is also held in that account. When the detainee needs money for their air fare or to purchase additional items (e.g. additional food, water, soap, blanket etc) they can have the cost debited from their account.
The IDC has a link with a number of travel agents who attend the IDC, as and when required, to make arrangements for the return flight. The agent has to work with the Immigration staff to ensure that the flight is approved and that Immigration transport arrangements can be made to get the detainee to the airport in time for departure.
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1 hour ago, UKJASE said:i know the guy who has been nicked, and he has only been nicked for overstay, nothing else. he was not involved in anything criminal.
i went to see him yesterday in hua hin police station, and will go again today. he was in court yesterday, and fined 1000 baht for something, and he will be held in hua hin over the weekend, then he is unsure (as he couldnt follow what was being said, as his thai is not very good).
maybe it is bangkok next?
do most people think the best way to get flown out of IDC as quick as possible is to transfer the money to embassy in bangkok? i know his dad (the OP) has been in touch with them already. do people on here agree that will be the quickest way? i can make payment at this end too if that will hurry things along, but to me the embassy method seems more efficient and reliable i would think........
What do you guys think? ubon joe??
I would strongly recommend that either the OP or you deal with the Consular Officials at the British Embassy in Bangkok regarding providing funds to support the OPs son's return flight.
The Consular Officials deal with this sort of problem on a very regular basis so have both the experience and the contacts at the IDC to ensure things are dealt with 'smoothly'. Equally, and perhaps more importantly, they will ensure that the money is properly deposited and accounted for - there is a potential danger that funds might go missing if deposited directly by yourself or the OP.
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47 minutes ago, Jim7777 said:I don’t know but from what I understand and have heard Immigration Detention isn’t at all like a Thai prison. I’ve heard that it’s not horrible but I don’t know where he’s being held obviously. More than likely in Immigration Detention which I’ve heard isn’t too horrible but I’m not sure, obviously you want him out of there and home as soon as possible regardless. As a parent I can’t imagine how worried you must be but I’m pretty sure that Immigration Detention isn’t to bad if that’s indeed where he’s being held. So it’s not like he’s in a real Thai prison or anything like that. More than likely he’s just in Immigration Detention of course I could be wrong I’m not familiar with how that works especially after a 4 year overstay.
It’s possible that he might even have his cell phone with him if he’s indeed in Immigration Detention. I’ve seen reports of people in Immigration Detention before online that were allowed to keep their cell phones and I saw one where a guy took a picture of the Detention room and posted it online and it didn’t look bad at all it actually looked really decent of course like I said I don’t know where your son is being held hopefully in one of the nicer Detention rooms but I don’t know.
Sorry Jim7777 but the picture that you have of the IDC in Bangkok could not be further from the truth. It is more that your worse nightmare and somewhere that frankly you would not wish your worse enemy to be incarcerated.
Detainees are packed 30 to 40 in a small room which has an open squat toilet at one end. There is a ceiling fan, but no air conditioning in the room. Detainees sleep on the bare floor in head to toe formation next to one another with little or no room to move. The smell in the detention rooms is overpowering. There are communal showers and detainees are allowed one per day. Food is basic to say but the least and tends to comprise rice plus a soup twice a day. Medical facilities are extremely basic and if the detainee requires any medication they will have to pay for them. Detainees are not allowed any personal possessions whilst in the IDC e.g. mobile phones or money etc. Visitors are only allowed by appointment and then the visitor and detainee are separated in an open yard by two fences approximately a meter apart - no privacy.
The photos that you referred to in your post are most likely the temporary detention facility at the airport and these are quite different from the main IDC in Bangkok. Detainees at the airport are only there for a short time (maybe overnight) and they are allowed to retain their personal possessions (except passport).
It has been reported that there are individuals that have been detained in the IDC for several years because they have no recourse to funds to get them back to their home country.
This is why I suggest in my original post 21 that the OP's first priority must be to get their son out of IDC ASAP.
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1 hour ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:Also, giving advice to a criminal is against forum rules.
May I respectfully suggest that you go back and read the original post before making such observations. The person who is seeking advice is the parent of the individual who has got himself into this overstay mess.
FYI…. Giving advice to someone who as you put it is ‘a criminal, does not make it against forum rules unless that advice is intended to break the law. So far, and in my opinion, none of the members who have offered advice to the OP have made any suggestions that could be remotely considered as breaking the law.
I’m confident that if any member did give advice which was deemed to be against forum rules the moderator(s) would have been quick to remove the offending post and warn the poster.
May I also suggest a little less criticism and perhaps a bit more compassion for a distraught parent is called for.
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OP…. I’m sorry to hear that your son has caused you a parental heartache and I hope that I can give you some information which will help you.
In your original post you did not mention how your son came to be in Immigration custody. This can be important as it will have a bearing on how his case will be handled. There are two possibilities, namely:
Firstly:
If your son was arrested or stopped by the police for an unrelated immigration offence, (for example a routine police check following an accident or something more serious) the police may well have asked to see his passport and discovered that he was on overstay, and hence immigration’s involvement.
If he has committed an unrelated immigration offence, then that matter will need to be dealt with first by the local police and Court. Depending what the offence was, your son could be detained in the local police cells until an initial Court appearance which is normally within a week. Depending upon the nature of the offence, it is possible also that he may be released on bail, but he will have to surrender his passport to the Court and stay at a specified address and report to police on a regular basis until the case is formally heard.
For your information, it can take several weeks before an offence is normally tried in Court.
The Court will also be informed of his overstay and that matter may also be dealt with by the Court at the same time as any other offence.
For your information, although the fine for overstay is set at 500 THB (approximately £12) per day, the maximum fine that can be levied is 20,000 THB (approximately £494). The Courts, however, generally reduce the overstay fine to around 3,000 to 6,000 THB.
Once the offence matter has been dealt with by the Court, and your son has paid any fines (or served any prison sentence) imposed by the Court, Immigration will detain your son and transfer him to the Immigration Detention Centre (IDC) in Bangkok to await deportation. This transfer may take several days to arrange during which time he will be detained in a local police cell, or local Immigration facility.
Secondly:
If your son was stopped by Immigration in a ‘spot check’, and they discovered that he was on four years overstay, they (Immigration) have the power to detain and deport him from the Kingdom without the need for any Court appearance. Immigration can also charge him the maximum fine for overstay (20,000 THB) and this will need to be paid before he is deported.
If he has not committed any other offences, he will be transported to the IDC in Bangkok to await deportation. Transfer, as mentioned above, may take several days to arrange.
The police/immigration should notify the Consular Section of British Embassy in Bangkok that your son has been detained, where he is being held and the reason for the detention. Unfortunately, this can often take several days to happen. An Embassy representative will contact your son and inform him what assistance the Embassy can, or cannot, give. See link below
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/451352/Thailand_Prisoners_pack_template_-_Final_Draft_for_publishing.pdf
Not wishing to frighten you, but the Immigration Detention Centre in Bangkok is everyone’s worst nightmare. Conditions there are about as bad as they can get. So, getting him out of IDC must be a number one priority.
I would strongly recommend that you contact the Consular Section at the British Embassy in Bangkok, their contact details are given in the link I’ve attached above and listen to their advice. They deal with similar problems on a daily basis and are in the best position to give you advice.
The Embassy will not pay for his flight out of the Kingdom. However, you can send the Embassy money which they in turn will deposit in an account for him which will be held by the IDC. The Embassy will make a charge for this service.
Your son will not be allowed any personal possessions or physical money whilst in the IDC, but he can debit his account held by IDC in order to pay for better food, drinking water, mattress or other essentials etc. which he can request the guards to obtain for him. He will also need funds available to pay for his flight out of the Kingdom.
Regarding his flight, again the Embassy staff will best advise you on this matter. Generally speaking, Immigration will want the deportee to be flow back to their home country by a single carrier, without stops, whenever possible. This should not be a problem as there are several carriers that fly direct between Bangkok and the UK.
I strongly advise that you, or his friends, do not purchase a ticket for him without talking to Immigration first as Immigration need to approve the flight before a booking is confirmed so that they can arrange transport from the IDC to the airport. This can take a couple of days to arrange.
It has been reported that when family or friends have obtained a ticket without Immigration approval the individual was not transported to the airport in time to catch the flight and as a result the airline considers it to be a ‘no show’, which means no refund and having to purchase another expensive ticket.
You need to be aware that a single ticket from Bangkok to the UK, booked at relatively short notice e.g. a couple of days, will be expensive – single fares tend to be 2/3rd the cost of a normal return flight and the short notice booking inevitably attracts a higher premium charge.
Once a flight has been approved and booked, Immigration will transport your son from the IDC in Bangkok to the airport. At the airport your son will be taken to the airport detention facility until his flight is ready to board. His passport will be given to the flight crew and this will be returned to him when he exits the plane in the UK.
For your information… Your son will be banned from entering Thailand for the next 10 years. This may present him with a problem if he has property and bank accounts here, but that is the least of his problems for now. Get him out of IDC ASAP.
I hope this information has been helpful and best of luck.
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Just now, BritManToo said:
And yet 20 years back, last minute tickets were the cheapest.
Sorry.... but those day have long gone... today its all about the bottom line AKA Profit.
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1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:I told you last week. The big change is coming. Wait until they release this new immigration act. You are 100% going to have something too complain about then.
The committee has been working on eleven main changes to immigration rules and penalties since January.
Other changes include the stamps that will be used by immigration. A new flag shaped design is in the offing.
In a related story Lt-Gen Surachate himself said that a ministerial committee will discuss the proposals this week with implementation expected after Songkran on April 22nd.
TNA called the present era "Yuk Big Joke" (the era of Big Joke) in their feature on the proposed changes.
Your quite correct when you point out that Lt. Gen. Surachate (AKA Big Joke) has announced that there is a committee looking into proposed changes to the current Immigration Act.
However, He (Big Joke) does not have the authority to introduce a new Immigration Act, or to make any modifications to the original Act. That can only be done by Parliament.
At present the committee (comprising representatives from several Ministries - MoI, MFA, TAT) is considering several proposed options to amend the Immigration Act. As this is Thailand, committees tend to ruminate for ever so there is no telling as to when they will come up with any concrete proposals. Big Joke's estimates of the proposals being implemented on the 24 April are a little over exaggerated to say the least.
Once the committee has decided on what changes to the Immigration Act they consider expedient, those proposals will be submitted to the Minister of the Interior who has overall responsibility for the Immigration Act.
The Minister may return those proposals to the committee with his, or her, recommend changes for further consideration. Once the Minister approves the proposals he, or she, will need to submit the proposals to Parliament for approval which will have several readings (and possible amendments) before being passed to the upper house for approval. Once Parliament has given it approval to the proposal, it then has to be submitted to the King for his approval and once the King has approved the proposal it is normally a month before those proposals can come into effect (law).
Given the current state of play (election wise) it is highly unlikely that a new Government will be place and up and running until June at the earliest. Even then I would expect that there will be other matters that will take priority over any proposed changes to the Immigration Act.
FYI…. It is highly unlikely that committee will even consider changing the stamps used by Immigration to a “new flag shaped design” as the shape of stamps used by Immigration worldwide are governed by the UN under the auspices of International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) to ensure uniformity. At present there is no ICAO approval for flag shaped Immigration stamps.
Also knowing how loyal Thais are to their flag it is incomprehensible that the Government would allow someone to write on their flag. No doubt there is a law that prohibits defacing the Thai flag.
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Several members have commented in this post that the airlines appear to charge passengers who have been refused entry excessively high fares to return them to their original point of embarkation or to another destination if allowed by Immigration. I’m not sure that this is the case.
Anyone who’s tried to book a one-way fare will very quickly discover that the cost of that single fare in most cases is almost 2/3rds the cost of return fare, and in some cases even more.
Airlines use very complex algorithms to set the prices of their fares and these are being updated by the minute. However, for the passenger the main factors that that will determine the advertised cost of the flight is the date and the time of that flight.
If you want to book a flight a month ahead you stand a good chance of obtaining a cheap fare. Try booking that same flight in a weeks’ time and the fare will undoubtedly have increased. However, if you want to book a flight on the same, or next, day you can expect to pay substantially more.
For example: Looking at single flight fares with Asia Air from Phuket to Kuala Lumpur for example:
Flight for next month (24 April) are shown as 1,030.00 THB.
Flight for next week (3 April) are shown as 1,839.00 THB.
Flight for today (26 March) are shown as 3,710.00 THB.
The fares given above are the basic prices and do not include any booking fee, checked in luggage, seat selection or meal.
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1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:
So, if you have a return ticket they will use that? If you don't have a return tickets perhaps you have a better chance of going to KL or somewhere else?
In theory yes, but where the passenger who has been denied entry is flown too will depend upon:-
a) The immigration officer who had denied entry. The officer (under Section 55 of the Immigration Act) has the discretion to send the passenger back to the country where they embarked on the inbound flight or to allow the passenger to fly to another destination of their choosing. In both cases it will also depend upon the passenger being allowed to enter that country.
b) The airline is obliged to comply with the Immigration Officer’s instructions which will be given to them in a formal ‘Removal Notice’. The airline can make representation to Immigration on behalf of the passenger but there is no guarantee that any such request will be granted.
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Sorry that this may be a long post, but hopefully it will clarify the situation concerning who has to pay for the outbound ticket when someone is refused entry.
Transportation of passengers by all airlines are regulated by the UN under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Organisations (ICAO).
The airline industry governing body, known as the International Air Transport Association (IATA) interprets the ICAO rules/regulations and provides the airlines with explicate guidance in what is known as the ‘Ticketing Handbook’.
The IATA ‘Ticketing Handbook’ contains over 370 pages of detailed information covering almost every situation, including a comprehensive section (2.23.13) on what the airlines responsibilities are if a passenger is refused entry (also known as an Inadmissible Passenger).
As the IATA ‘Ticket Handbook’ is covered by copyright I, therefore, will endeavour to summarise the relevant details:
Definition….. Inadmissible Passenger (INAD) means a passenger who is refused entry to a country by the authorities of that country.
Ticketing Procedures: -
a) It is the responsibility of the final inbound airline to take all necessary steps to ticket that the inadmissible passenger.
b) The place to which the inadmissible passenger is to be ticketed will be advised by the authority which has refused entry.
c) Where a passenger is in possession of a return ticket this ticket should be used, or the value of any remaining coupons should be used, as payment towards a new ticket in the event that the original ticket can not be used as originally issued.
d) Where a passenger is not in possession of a ticket to cover the journey from the country where entry has been refused, the inbound airline is responsible for ticketing the passenger and collection of the fare for the outbound flight from the inadmissible passenger.
Regarding payment for the flight (d above), you will find that within the airlines Terms and Conditions of Carriage there is a little clause to the affect:
“If you are refused entry to a country (including a country you transit through while en route to your destination), you must reimburse us in full on request any fine, penalty or charge assessed against us by the government concerned (including detention costs) as well as the fare for transporting you, and an escort if required, from that country. We will not refund to you the fare paid for carriage to the airport where you were refused entry”.
If you hold travel insurance you will no doubt find that there is an exclusion clause which covers being denied entry, or deported, by the authorities of the destination country so the insurance company will not pay for the additional outbound ticket.
If the passenger who has been denied entry has no onward ticket or cash/credit card with which to make the immediate payment for the outbound flight, it is likely that the airline will attempt to recover its costs by civil litigation in the passenger’s home country.
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On 3/22/2019 at 4:27 PM, bouph12 said:
A married couple can have a simple will registered and kept at the local Amphur for minimal cost without involving a lawyer. You could ask there if they'll do the same for you and your partner.
I have seen this comment made on a number of other posts regarding making a will in Thailand. It seems a sensible arrangement that could prevent the executor (in my case, Mrs MoneyBaht) being accused of modifying the will etc.
Unfortunately, when I enquired about having a copy of my will deposited at my District office (Sampran), the senior administrator (who was a very friendly) advised me that this service is only available for Thais.
I'm not sure if there is any specific law which precludes a foreigner using this service, or if it is just a local get out phrase.
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7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:
Right, the only way they could get access to your accout (without your permission) is with a court order.
Remember.... This is Thailand..... Normal logic and conventions do not always apply ????
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4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:
Unless you've committed some crime that the government decides to investigate, everyone knows nothing will ever happen.
For example, if you were trafficking drugs and they couldn’t get you for anything else, they could prosecute you for perjury and at the very least deport you.
I think that you may have misinterpreted my post.... The Perjury Act 1911 is a piece of UK legislation not Thai legislation. If a British National submits false information to the BE in Bangkok and they discovered it that individual could potentially be prosecuted for Perjury in a British Court.
That said, such an event is highly unlikely unless it was an extremely serious matter that warranted getting the individual extradited back to the Uk and a greater that 80% chance of a conviction.
No doubt there is a similar piece of legislation in Thai Law.
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1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:
I understand how unbelivable this must seem, but most anyone can download a bank statment as PDF, open it in Acrobat and edit most any of the entries, print it, submit it and anyone looking at the document would not know the difference.
Absolutely correct and can be done within a few minutes if you have access to the right software.
1 hour ago, PST said:So what then happens when they use this income letter with 'false' info as proof on it to apply for an extension at immigration, and the IO wants to see the back up proof(edited statement) and then the bank card that corresponds to the details on the statement?, oh, and the atm receipts too for the transactions in Thailand.
The Embassy returns the documentation you submitted with their letter so you still have the false copy. The only part of the bank statement that would need to be altered would be the deposit, withdrawal and balance amounts. The account holders name, address and account details will remain unchanged and he/she should be able to produce the ATM card if ever asked to do so (which is unlikely).
It would be almost impossible for an IO to tell that a the statement had been changed unless they have access to your online account which is possible but highly unlikely.
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1 hour ago, wayned said:
....... The US Embassy would never look at any documentation, you had to put the amount that you received on the form and come in in person and raise your hand under threat of purgery that the information was true.
FYI.... The UK has the Perjury Act 1911 (as amended). Although it's dated 1911, it has been revised may times over the years and was last updated in 2018. To commit perjury you don't necessarily have give false information under oath, submitting false information to a Government Official with the intent of gaining advantage is also covered by the Act. A breach of this Act can result in a fine and/or imprisonment.
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25 minutes ago, Spidey said:
Which confirms that the FO made the decision not the embassy. During an interview on Pattaya radio, a consular official stated that the decision was made as a result of a FO audit of the embassy.
This is also a FACT.
Spidey, you are correct in saying that it was the Foreign Office that was responsible for the BE decision to withdraw the income letter, but unfortunately once again your are wrong when you insist that it was the auditors.
In your post #2648 you specifically stated that the BE decision was as a result of a Foreign Office audit Announced by a BE consul on Pattaya Radio. Posted on TV. I recorded that interview and have listened to her comments many times and nowhere during that interview did she mention that the Foreign Office auditors were involved in the BE's decision to withdraw the income letter.
The information which I gave in my post #2650 is based on factual information obtained under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and very clearly shows that it was the Legal Department of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office who recommended that the BE cease issuing the income letter.
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28 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:
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Incomes have never been verified simply because the law doesn't allow third parties access to your personal information. The documentary evidence is taken at face value and the Embassies give a certified letter to that effect.
Not strictly correct. It is possible for an organisation, such as a government body, to access a person’s personal information if:
They (the organisation) has the legal basis/power to do so (there is a law which gives the organisation the legal ability to access that information), or
The person concerned has been given comprehensive details as to why the information is needed, how it will be used, who else it may be shared with, how long it will be retained and that the individual concerned has given their explicit consent for the organisation to access that information for the purpose(s) stated.
In the case of the BE being able to validate the applicant’s income, they do not have the legal powers to access such information and the bank/pension provider etc would quite rightly refuse to disclose any information.
The only way that the BE could verify the income of the applicant is if the applicant gave their explicit consent for their bank/pension provider etc to make such a disclosure.
The use of explicit consent may be feasible if there is only one bank/pension provider etc involved but would be an administrative nightmare if there were several sources of income each of which needed to be verified.
Legalize documents at the ministry of foreign affairs
in Thai Visas, Residency, and Work Permits
Posted
There is a translations service shop located on the 2nd floor of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA), Consular Affairs – Legalisation Division building located on Chang Watthana Road on the outskirts of Bangkok.
Getting there will depend upon where you are coming from. If you are in Bangkok, take the BTS to Mo Chit. Descend from the station of the park side (that’s the side you get out of the train) and go to the taxi rank. Just ask the driver to take you to the Consular Affairs building in Chang Watthana. It’s a fairly regular trip for them so should not present you with any problems. It is a long way so don’t be alarmed. The trip will cost you about 120 THB, depending upon traffic conditions.
FYI….. There are also a number of ‘freelance’ translators who will offer their services as you enter the building.
The staff in the translation shop are actually MFA employees who work in the shop on a part time basis. The bonus with using them is that if there is any problem when the document is being legalised, they are in the best position to get it sorted quickly.
The translation process will depend upon the complexity of the document, the number of pages and the shop’s current workload. I am given to understand that the shop has a large range of document ‘templates’, so if your document is one of them, then they only need to add the specifics e.g. name, DOB etc. and the process could be completed very quickly. On the other hand, if your document is not in their existing range of templates it could possibly take a day to process.
Once the document has been translated it can then be submitted to the Legalisation Office located on the 3rd floor.
The quickest that you can get a document legalised is the same day. However, in order to use the same day service, the document needs to be submitted to the office before 09:30am. You then collect it after 2:00pm that day.
The translation shop can arrange for your document to be legalised. I don’t know if they are able to get it legalised on the same day. What they can arrange is for the Legalisation Office to return your document to you by EMS postal service which is very reliable and saves you waiting around all day or possibly having to go back the next day to collect it.
Hope this helps.