007 RED

54 minutes ago, Spidey said:

My pension letter (payslip) comes in the same form as my P60. Paper not readily available and very difficult to photoshop effectively.

 

If you are talking about the BE letter, has an embossed seal and again, not readily availiable paper. Not possible to effectively scan and print.

Please see attached.... Easily scanned.... Easily redacted - changed.... Standard laser printer paper - No water mark.... The embossed seal is also easy to replicate if required.

As I have indicated to you previously, it is possible with scanner and decent software to replicate any document.

Consular Letter_Redacted.pdf

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 2:17 PM, KhunBENQ said:

I am certain that many nationals traveling to Thailand do not have "chipped" passports.

Thai immigration still seems to resort to the machine readable zone (as seen in the photo of the OP ("P>FR...", French passport).

And that is surely still machine readable.

 

Also:

the chip and antenna are NOT embedded in the bio page but in the front cover.

At least that is shown in a video of "ANTS", a French agency that deals with the passports.

The video is in English(!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBHfEMLvLc

 

FYI…. The so called ‘biometric’ passports were first introduced in 2005 and as at 2017 over 120 countries (comprising most of the countries that form the United Nations) currently use ‘biometric’ passports.  So in fact most countries now issue ‘biometric’ passports.

Until June of this year the chip embedded within the ‘biometric’ passport actually did not contain any true biometric data e.g. finger print, iris scan etc.  The chip actually contained identical information to the shown on the photo page (including the photo of the passport holder).  Information held on the chip is encrypted and only accessible using a ‘security key’.

In June this year the full council of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) which runs under the auspices of the United Nations ratified Document 9303 Machine Readable Travel Documents 7th Edition 2015.  This now allows States to include true biometric data (finger prints, iris scans etc.) onto the chip at the second security level.  The inclusion of true biometric data is not mandatory and its inclusion is left to each issuing States.

Part 9 of the above mentioned ICAO document advises that the placement of the chip and its associated antenna is at the discretion of the issuing State.  However, States must be mindful of the importance of the need to protect the chip and antenna against physical tampering and casual accidental damage accidental damage including flexing and bending.  As a result some countries put the chip and antenna in the front or rear cover whilst others put it on the reverse side of the photo page –which actually makes it more difficult to alter that information of the photo page without damaging the chip or antenna.

FYAI…  When an IO places the photo page onto the scanner on his/her desk the scanner reads the information at the bottom of the page between >>>>  >>>>>>.  The Optical Character Reader (OCR) software then uses certain characters within the information between >>>>  >>>> to produce the ‘security key’ to decrypt the information held on the chip.  It is the information contained on the chip that is then displayed of the IOs screen.

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

......   People buying fake British Embassy income letters off the internet and having them accepted by the IO? Highly unlikely. evidence please.

Sorry to contradict you but I think that there is evidence that fake Embassy letters have been submitted to immigration.  A number of TV members (including myself) have reported on TV that when they have presented their Embassy letter to immigration the IO demands that the letter is ‘certified’ by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  The certification is in fact authentication of the signature.

From the reports on TV it would appear that this requirement was confined to a small number of offices.

When I asked the IO why this was necessary, I was informed that immigration have received a number of fakes and this requirement was to ensure the document was authentic.

As a side issue… Have you ever been down the Khao San Road in BKK before they cleaned it up a few months ago?  Famous for fake documents, IDs, degrees etc.  I’m sure that you could also obtain an Embassy letter, pension or bank statement (at a price) if required.  Too late now though, it’s all been sanitised by BKK Metro Authority.

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

Great letter but I would change one part of the wording "stopping certification of income letters" is the title of the thread, not what the British Embassy refers to. British Embassy says "stopping Pension letter service", technically British Embassy does not certify income letters or refer to them as such. Possible confusion as they may not understand what you are talking about.

Thanks for your observation regarding the use of the phrase " stopping certification of income letters", much appreciated.  However, the wording that you question is in fact taken (copy & paste) from the BE website under the section Notarial and Documentary Services Guide for Thailand – Announcement https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-Thailand the use of the words

Just shows, yet again, they can’t get it right.

I’m really not sure that this article is factually correct.  Immigration officers at the ports of entry and departure do not need to be able to identify if a passport is fake or not.  The computer system does it for them.

When the IO places the passport onto the scanner on their desk, the scanner reads the information at the bottom of the photo page between the <<<< >>>>.  Using an Optical Character Recognition programme, the computer uses certain elements of the date of birth, passport number and expiry date to produce an encryption key that unlocks the information held on the microchip embedded in the passport. 

The encrypted information held on the microchip is the same information as contained on the photo page of the passport (including the holder’s photo).  It is the information from the microchip that is then displayed on the IOs screen so the IO can see at a glance that the info on the photo page of the passport matches that being displayed on his/her screen.

Also when the IO takes a photo of the traveller, a facial recognition software programme in the computer system compares the new photo with that held on the microchip and then gives the IO a feedback that the photos match or not.

The microchip also has additional security features which will show up if any of the data on the microchip have been altered.

So called biometric chip passports were introduced in mid-2005 and some 160 countries have subsequently adopted the use of them.

In July of this year the International Civil Aviation Organisation, which runs under the auspices of the United Nations, approved that the finger prints and iris scan information may also be included on the microchip.  These additional features are not mandatory and it will be up too individual countries ID issuing authorities to decide if they are to be included on the chip. 

Because of the security surrounding the embedding of the encrypted information onto the microchip, this has made it extremely difficult for forgers to replicate or alter a so called biometric passport.

Please don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that it is impossible.  I would be a fool if I did.  But the introduction of the microchip has made it extremely difficult to forge or alter a passport and much easier to detect a forgery or altered passport.

2 hours ago, ThaidDown said:

This was posted on TVF March 7 .Five year ban

 

 

Many thanks. It definitely indicates that the individual is on the blacklist for 5 years.  Not something you want in your passport.

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I think saying it is automatic is not correct. A immigration officer with the the authority to it has to initiate the action. It certainly is not automatically done in their system.

Joe … I entirely agree with your comment that a ban (for whatever reason) is not automatically created by the immigration computer system, and that it requires the IO (or authorised person) to enter the details of any ban into their computer system.

When I indicated the ban was automatic in my previous post, it was in the context that the OPs overstay of 4 years plus, with voluntary surrender, will result in a an automatic 5 year ban.  The wording of the Ministerial Order (1/2558) clearly states “… will be barred from re-entering the country…”  The emphasis being on the word ‘will’, which I beg to suggest infers automatic with no choice, discretion or appeal.

OP…. It was possibly your history of 2.5 years on tourist visas and a couple of overstays that lead the IOs to assume that you had been working and hence the refused entry.

You have indicated that you now have a new passport.  Please do not assume that a new passport is going to ‘wipe’ your previous Thai Immigration history clean.  The Immigration computer system is fairly sophisticated and very capable of linking your old passport to your new one in a couple of second.

You have also indicated that you have an Education Visa.  I trust that you are aware that although you have obtained a visa it is not a guarantee that you will be admitted into the Kingdom.  To quote from the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs website:

“Royal Thai Embassies and Royal Thai Consulates-General have the authority to issue visas to foreigners for travel to Thailand.  The authority to permit entry and stay in Thailand, however, is with the immigration officers.  In some cases, the immigration officer may not permit foreigner holding a valid visa entry into Thailand should the immigration officer find reason to believe that he or she falls into the category of aliens prohibited from entering Thailand under the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 (1979)”.

When the IO scans your new passport at the port of entry he/she is going to see that you were refused entry last time you tried to enter and the reasons given by the IO.  Entering with an education visa may well start ‘alarm bells ring’ with the IO and given your previous history I suspect that you will be taken to one side questioned by a supervisor.  They may well ask for copies of letters that you have from the educational establishment indicating your admission, which course(s) you will be following and fees paid etc.  I hope that the establishment is a reputable one and not on the Immigration suspect list otherwise you may well find yourself being refused entry again.

Good luck.

3 hours ago, elgenon said:

Isn't a stamp required by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? How is that done when you use an outreach program? I'm confused.

FYI ….. From past reports, only a few immigration offices (mostly in or near Bangkok) require the embassy income letter to be authenticated by the MFA Consular Department for the purpose of renewing extension of stay.

My immigration office (Nakhonpathom being one of them).  When I did my 90 day reporting a couple of months ago the IO reminded, after looking at my details on her computer, that my extension renewal was due in September and that if I was using an embassy letter to support my income claim, that the letter needed to be authenticated by the MFA.

It should be noted that although MFA and immigration use the term authenticate in fact the MFA only certify that the signature on the embassy letter is genuine as per the sticker which they put on the rear of the letter (see below).

Although it is possible for me to get into Bangkok and get the embassy letter authenticated at the MFA in a day, frankly it’s a pain in the rear having get up before the crack of dawn to get there before 9:30am, and then wait around to collect the letter in the afternoon, plus getting back home in rush hour traffic.

The MFA Consular Department have an option that allows you to post your documents to them for authentication.  I have done this for the past couple of years and the process works well.  This year I posted the documents by EMS on Monday morning and received the authenticated embassy letter back by EMS on Wednesday afternoon.  Cost 460 BHT paid by post office money order.

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1303/24762-Procedure-of-Document-Authentication-by-Mail.html

To really P me off, the IO who’d previously reminded me that my income letter needed to be authenticated by the MFA did my renewal of extension of stay last week.  She never looked to see if the letter had been authenticated (sticker on the back), she just looked at the income figures and converted them to Baht against that days Bangkok Bank buying rate.

As has been said on many occasions on TV, when the IO says jump, just jump and don’t ask how high!

Quote from OP:

"An Indian lady…… has been teaching English in a large…. school here in Thailand.  All arranged properly and legally.  Her first stint teaching was on a Tourist Visa…..”

Since when has it been legal to teach (work) in Thailand when only in possession of a Tourist Visa?  Surely to be arranged properly an legally the lady would have needed a Non-B Visa plus a Work Permit.

Regarding the refusal of her application for a Non-B Visa it is quite possible that the supporting letter from the school may well have indicated that the lady has already been teaching there etc., and a keen eyed Thai Consular Officer spotted that she only had a Tourist Visa in her passport.

Regarding returning her documents, I note from several Thai Embassy/Consular websites from around the world that they state that they will keep all supporting documents and applicants are advised to make copies before submitting their application.

FYI - Details of how to apply by post for MFA authentication of signature on Embassy income letter are as follows:

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1303/24762-Procedure-of-Document-Authentication-by-Mail.html

23 hours ago, somtamlao said:

Yeah, I understand. All the details are still legible, it's just there's damage to the actual bio-information page on the top corner. It's just a small crack in the page but tough to know whether that will prevent entry to the country. 

OP…. You indicated in your original post that the Thai Consulate contacted you and advised that you to get a new passport because the photo page was slightly cracked in the top corner.  Did they still issue you with a visa?

FYI – When the Immigration Officer scans your passport, the scanner (through an Optical Character Reader) reads the information contained within the <<<< >>>> at the bottom of the photo page.  Parts of that information are then used to provide a ‘Public Key’ which ‘unlocks’ the encrypted information held on the ‘chip’ that is embedded within the passport.

The information held on the ‘chip’ is currently identical to that contained on the photo page of the passport, including the photo of the holder.  It is the information from the ‘chip’ that is then displayed on the Immigrations Officer screen (not the initial scanned information between <<<< >>>>) so they can easily validate the identity of the passport holder.

If your passport has a small crack in the top corner, and the other information on the photo page is legible, as you have indicated, then I doubt that it will give rise to you being denied entry, even by a Thai Immigration Officer.  However, they may well do a double check. 

The reason why the ‘chip’ was originally introduced (way back in mid-2005) was to make it more difficult to forge or alter a passport because of the encryption, and easier for boarder control authorities to detect forgeries and alterations.

As I've mentioned above, the information currently held on the 'chip' is identical to that contained on the photo page.  The UN under the auspices of the International Civil Aviation Authority which dictates the form of Machine Readable Travel Documents (passports etc) has only very recently approved the inclusion of fingerprints and iris scan information onto the passport 'chip'.  However, inclusion of these additional biometrics is not mandatory and individual passport issuing authorities will have discretion to include them or not in future passports.

9 hours ago, mvdf said:

....... I have it on very good authority from a friend with ICA Singapore that IATA requires nominal data changes be recorded on the chip as a condition for countries participating in the US's VWP system.

Sorry, but your so called ‘friend with Immigration & Checkpoint Authority Singapore’  is giving you fake information.

Firstly…. The International Air Transport Association (IATA) cannot, and do not, specify what information is, or is not, held on the ‘chip’ that is embedded in Machine Readable Travel Documents e.g. passports.

Determining what data is held on the ‘chip’ is the responsibility of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (IACO) which is under auspices United Nations.

Secondly…. Until last month (June) the only data that is held on the ‘chip’ that is embedded within the passport is identical to that information given on the photo page of the passport (including a copy of the holder’s photo).

As from the 1st July 2018 the IACO Committee finally approved the Seventh Edition of Document 9303.  This document upgrades the previous editions and now allows for the inclusion of fingerprints and iris scans to be embedded on the ‘chip’. 

However, inclusions of these additional data items is not mandatory and the decision to include them is up to the individual MRTD (passport) issuing authorities.

FYI…. The IACO has been consulting for some considerable time what other personal data items might also be embedded onto the chip.  For example:  Name change; Gender change; Criminal records.  At this point in time there is no indication that the IACO will make any recommendations that any of these personal data can/should be added to the data held on the chip in the foreseeable future.

2 hours ago, Fruit Trader said:

A little research reveals problems with both digital and analogue systems losing channels as there are plenty of Shenzhen specials that hate a power cycle. Digital systems seem to suffer more from poor installation and configuration.

The system that I installed recently was MIC and gives (IMO) very good quality pictures, both day and night, plus very good replay images, so I wouldn't knock the fact that they are MIC.  OK, its not by any stretch of the imagination a top of the range system incorporating PTZ , movement activation or facial recognition, which for my application is not required.

Regarding the loss of channels, as I mentioned in my earlier post, we have had a couple of power outages since I did the installation earlier this year and when the power came back up all the channels appeared on the monitor via the recorder.  No resetting was necessary.

I can see that mains spiking could be a problem with the electronics in the cameras and recorder if the mains voltage was supplied direct to them, but the cameras and recorder provided in my system are supplied with 12 volts DC through their own separate power adaptors, so mains spikes shouldn't affect the electronics in the main hardware.

4 hours ago, Arjen said:

I heard (but not sure if this is correct) that a big disadvantage from IP camera's (wireless, or hardwired) is that with a power failure, it is possible your recorder "forgets" the IP addresses from the camera's.

1 hour ago, grollies said:

Any of you gurus know if arjen is right about this?

Since installing my wireless system we've had a couple of power outages to the house which obviously means no power to either the cameras or the recorder.  The outages have lasted anywhere between one and 5 hours.  On both occasions when the power has returned the system has operated as normal with no loss of the IP addresses or need to reset the system.

Within the instructions that were provided with the kit, they explain the procedure you need adopt to register the new camera's IP address which appears fairly simple and straight forward so it should not be a real problem if a power outage did require re-registering the IP addresses of the cameras. 

I replaced and added to my old analogue, hardwired, 4 camera system earlier this year.  I installed the original system about 6 years ago.  No real technical knowledge required to install, very simple/basic connection.  Each camera required a power supply and the cable to the recorder/monitor.  Laying-in of the camera to recorder cables gave me the biggest headaches.

For the upgrade, I only needed 6 cameras but the kits only come in 4 or 8 cameras.  I settled for an 8 camera digital, wireless system.  The cameras have built in inferred LEDs for night surveillance.

Cost quoted for 4 camera kit was around 4,500 BHT, and 8 camera kit was 7,500 BHT.

Again, each camera requires a 220 volt AC power supply.  The big bonus is that you don’t need any cables to connect the cameras to the recorder as everything is wireless and pre-set up for you.  Range from camera to recorder is claimed to be 500 meters (line of site) but this is reduced by buildings etc. 

My recorder is located inside the house (surrounded by walls) and the furthest camera is about 100 meters away.  Pictures are excellent and night pictures are amazing compared to the original analogue system.

I installed the cameras (including power supplies) and set them up in less than an afternoon.

I live on the Western outskirts of BKK and purchased the kit from a company in Pantip Plaza in BKK.  Managed to get a 500 BHT discount off the 8 camera kit.  I have seen these kits are available on Aliexpress, but not sure if you will need to pay import tax and VAT.

Picture below shows 2 of the cameras.  The grey box which they are mounted on are standard electrical boxes purchased from HomePro at 50 BHT each and contain the power supply and adaptor.

Hope this helps.

OP….  You have indicated in your original post that you have been visiting Thailand on a regular basis (once or twice a year) for the past five years.  Would you please enlighten us as to how you arrive in Thailand, e.g. by plane, land crossings or boat.

Many thanks

ianh68.... Sorry to hear that your Embassy letter was rejected by MFA because the signature was incomplete.  If I was in your shoes I would be contacting the Embassy by phone and requesting a new letter be issued as a matter of urgency in order to ensure that you are able to obtain your extension of stay in time.  I just hope that they don't try to charge you again.  You may need to email them a copy of the MFA rejection notice.

Regarding the MFA application form.... it is buried somewhere in the MFA website and unless you read Thai it is almost impossible to find.  I have attached a PDF copy of the form.  Hope that helps and best of luck.

MFAlegalizationform.pdf

OP….  I don’t want to make you feel despondent, your ambition to help the Thai rescue organisations are very admirable, but you do need to be aware of a number of issues which can cause you potential problems.

Firstly you will need to obtain a non-O visa and also obtain a work permit even for the type of voluntary work you have indicated.  As has been previously indicated, if you get caught working without a work permit the Thai Authorities will take you to court and you will be deported and banned from entering Thailand for some considerable time.   Some previous posters have indicated that your chances of being caught are remote, and even if you are it is unlikely that because of the nature of the work that you are proposing, the Authorities will not take any action. 

Are you willing to take the risk? Bearing in mind that if you attend incidents with the rescue organisation it is highly likely that the police will also be attending and as a foreigner you are going to stand out like a ‘sore thumb’ as far as the police are concerned and it is possible they may, just may, start asking some questions.

Secondly, if you hold any professional advanced lifesaving skills (Paramedic or EMT) you will not be allowed to employ those skills in Thailand without accreditation from the Institute of Emergency Medicine.  At very best you will have to confine your assistance to very basic first aid only.

Thirdly, most rescue groups that I have had contact with are very enthusiastic but very much basic first aid trained and they tend to be ‘scope and run’ merchants.  You also need to bear in mind that members of these rescue groups tend to only speak Thai as will the people who you may have to assist.  So having a good command of the Thai language is essential otherwise you will be more of a hindrance than help.

Best of luck.

Approximately a year ago I noticed what I can only describe as little mosquitos flying in front of my eyes.  Normal reaction was to swat them away, but they kept appearing.  I soon realised that they were not mosquitos, but something inside the eye.  I made an appointment to see an ophthalmic doc at Rama Hospital in BKK (Government Hospital).  Appointment was made via the hospital app and I was seen within a week.

The ophthalmic doc told me that the ‘little mosquitos’ were known as floaters that are small loose cells in the fluid inside the eye.  She said that they were not a problem and normally the brain becomes accustoms to them and ignores them.  No treatment was necessary.  Great, but..... she then informed me that the pressure test (a small short puff of air directed at the eye) which they do as a standard test before you see the doc showed that the pressure of the fluid inside the eye was on the high side.  She referred me to a colleague who was a specialist in glaucoma.  He repeated the ‘puff’ test and gave both eyes an intensive microscope examination.  He then gave me a number of other tests using some fairly sophisticated digital equipment.

This doc confirmed that the fluid pressure was on the high side and if left untreated I was at considerable risk of developing glaucoma which will mean losing my sight.  On a scale of 1 to 10, normal pressure should be 4-6.  Mine was 8.  All other factors concerning my sight are perfectly normal for my age.

He prescribed eye drops (one drop in each eye in the evening).  No pain or side effects when drops being administered.  I have been back for follow up checks on a three monthly basis (examination and repeat of tests) and thankfully the fluid pressure has reduced to almost normal levels.  My next appointment is now in six months.  The doc says that I may have to take the eye drops for the rest of my life.

Cost of consultation and tests about 1,300BHT.  Cost of eye drops from local pharmacy (bottle lasts about a month) 820BHT.

A small price to pay for my sight.

Hope this helps.

OP… Some hopefully helpful advice if you want to get your document(s) legalised quickly.

The Legalisation Division does do a same day service however, to avail yourself of this service you need to submit the document(s) before 9:30am.  You can then collect the document(s) after 2:00pm same day.  The cost is 400BHT per document.

As well as the original documents, you should also have photocopies of the documents, your passport plus photocopies of the photo page and your visa.  It is also advisable to print out the legalisation application form and complete it before you arrive to save time.  MFAlegalizationform.pdf

You will need to get there early as there is always a lot of people wanting same day service and it can be a bit of a mad crush to handover the documents in time.

The main doors to the building do not open until 8:00am. However, if you walk around the right-hand side of the building there is a side door which opens at about 7:00am.  You can make your way into the main entrance area.  The security staff will not allow you to go up to the Legalisation Division on the 3rd floor until 8:00am.  They (the security staff) will ask you for form a queue at the bottom of the staircase on the right which.  The queue on the left at the bottom of the escalator is for Thais wanting to obtain a passport.

At 8:00am the security will allow you to go up to the 3rd floor.  When you arrive at the 3rd floor staff there will ask you to take a seat which forms a queue.  At 08:30am the staff will marshal you to the initial checking desk where you’re present your document(s), application form, passport and copies etc.  If all is OK they give you a number ticket and you return to your seat and wait for that number to appear on the electronic board above the windows.

When your number is called you had over the documents which will be checked again.  The clerk will then ask you for payment.  They ask you to sit back down and wait for your name to be called.  When your name is called go to the window and you will be given a receipt for the payment.  You must keep that receipt as you will need to hand it over when you collect your document(s).

You will then have to wait around until 2:00pm to collect your documents.  There are a number of coffee shops and a food hall on the 1st floor.  At 2:00pm (or slightly before) go back to the 3rd floor and show the staff member your receipt.  They will give you a ticket number and ask to you sit and wait until your number is called.  You then go to the collection window hand over your receipt.  The clerk will find your documents and give them to you together with your reciept.

Hope that helps and good luck.

MFAlegalizationform.pdf