007 RED

OP.... I think that Ubonjoe made mentioned in passing in one of his excellent posts that your friend will not only be deported but he will be banned from returning to Thailand for some considerable time.

In your original post you indicated that he had overstayed for "some years" but did not specify actually how long he had overstayed.

Because he was apprehended the length of the ban will be considerably longer than had he surrendered to immigration at the airport.

If his overstay was less than 1 year, he will be banned from entering the country for 5 years.  If the overstay was more than 1 year he will be banned for 10 years.

Once again... Good luck.

3 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

....Giving him a prepaid card with 100 euros on it after he has got out, right, to buy some food and coffee in the airport lounge? He hasnt called since, dont know why. 

 

Sorry but you really don’t seem to understand the situation that the Ops friend is in.

Once a flight has been arranged and paid for the OP’s fiend will not be free.  He will remain in detention until he boards the plane at BKK.

Normally on the evening before his flight is scheduled to depart he will be taken from the IDC in Bangkok to the ‘backdoor’ of the Airport in a prison van.  Upon his arrival at the airport he will be escorted to the secure immigration holding area (which is airside) where he will remain until his flight is due to start boarding.  He will have no opportunity to avail himself of any of the public lounges or be able to purchase any duty free. 

Shortly before boarding starts, he will be escorted onto the plane (usually before normal passengers start to board) and his documentation will be handed over to the purser.

Although conditions in immigration holding area at the airport are slightly better than the IDC in Bangkok, it is by no means a first class lounge.  Entry is strictly by invitation only.

4 hours ago, MobileContent said:

Dear OP,
The phones are normally only on Cell 5 and in the private cells (detainees fighting and delaying extradition but sit on millions of Baht). Their is a strong chance that your BF did made the call from Cell 5 but because he didn't had any funds they moved him to Cell 2 or 3 which is hell compared to 5. In cell 2 or 3 are no chances of making another phone call and those detainees have no visitors, no extra food and have no funds to buy even a ticket. Some have been in for years and some didn't even made it.

 

The consulate should be your first option but I would try to call the IDC and my second option would be the UNHCR under +662 056 0000. Give the officer at IDC on the phone the full name, date of birth, passport number, citizenship and tell them you call from Europe to find out more so that you are able to assist and get him out of the mess. The second option would be the UNHCR, especially for countries such as Rwanda, Sudan, etc.

 

If it has been confirmed that your BF is in IDC, buy him a prepaid Visa or Mastercard and put a 100 Euros on it and send it to him via express without the PIN. He will be able to call you again to get the PIN.

 

All the best !!

 

 

A few observation regarding your post.

Firstly, the Op in his original post indicated that he had received a video call from his friend and that it looked like he was in a cell.  That would seem to suggest the friend was using an internet connection of some sort via a mobile phone/tablet/laptop.  These devices are not allowed in the IDC Bangkok as they would most certainly been taken away from him on his arrival at the center.   I suspect that the video call was made when he was first apprehended and put in a local police station cell as it’s not uncommon for prisoners to be allowed to retain their mobile whilst ‘enquiries’ are being made.

Secondly, regarding you suggestion that the OP might possibly contact the UNHCR for assistance.   I don’t think that that they will offer any assistance what so ever, on the simple basis that the friend is not a refugee.  He is basically a person who has broken the law in Thailand, been convicted and awaiting deportation to his home country in accordance with the laws of the Kingdom.

Thirdly, regarding consulate involvement.  Again I doubt that they will be of much assistance as their role in such matters is extremely limited (e.g. notifying next of kin and seeing that his basic health needs are being met) and they would not normally wish to, or cannot, become involved in situations where one of their citizens has broken the law and been convicted.  At best they will only offer some ‘lukewarm’ advice, like get a solicitor.

19 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

I understand your thoughts. I am old and have seen similar scenarios and based on that history and her comments my advice on what to do next is drop the bat and walk away. You have other ideas on what she should do next. IMO if she accepts my advice she will be better for it and he will find another “love” to get him out of the next mess.  If you like to live with a man who constantly creates problems and issues and ignores responsibility then this guy is for you until he finds another girl better for him.   This guy does not love himself so he cannot love her IMO.  But I say some of this through experience so I understand her belief that he loves her. He can be quite convincing in his actions toward others. Take care. 

Wake Up.... Please go back to the OPs post No.61on page 5 and read it.... May be several times.... She is actually a he and has been in a stable relationship with the person who is detained for quite some time.   Sorry but Wake Up is a good name .

OP... Thank you for your further explanation.. I think the advice given by me, and a number of other posters, was to beware of so called 'love' scams which have been much in the news here recently... that is now clearly not the case in your situation.

Regarding his video call to you, I suspect that may well have taken place before he was transferred to IDC in Bangkok.  There they take aaway mobiles, tablets or laptops from the detainees.  His only contact now will be by normal landline phone and he will have to pay for calls.

As I posted earlier you will be able to visit him at the IDC in Bangkok.  You can take him food and ask to deposit money into his account so that he can buy some addition items from the 'shop' which is inside the centre.  If you want to assist him with funding his flight I suggest that you speak to the guards - surprisingly they can be helpful.

Regarding his departure.  Once a flight has been paid for, IDC will make arrangements to transport him to the airport the day before departure and he will be held in the airport detention facility (which is slightly more civilised) until his flight is ready for boarding.  You will not be able to have access to him at the airport.

Good luck and please keep us informed as to the outcome.

1 hour ago, Aditi Sharma said:

If you look carefully, it's not a bribe. A bribe in Mumbai is called chai-paani. 

I was always lead to believe that chai-paani means "tea and water" and is Indian slang for going out for a cup of tea or a tasty bite/snack.  When I was working in Maharashtra a good few years ago bribes were always referred to as  rishwat, bahsheesh, ghoos or hafta.

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

If done correctly by a judge/court a blacklisting could be removed by a court order. It would require the order to be submitted to immigration to remove it.

The administrative court would likely be the correct route to get it done. 

Joe… Sorry, but with all due respects, having overstayed in the Kingdom by over a year on what grounds is OP going to appeal against the 3 year ban?  I don't think "laziness" (to quote the OP) is not really a justifiable reason for an overstay appeal.

As you are aware the overstay ban is automatic and there is no appeals procedure, so it is highly unlikely (unless there are extenuating circumstances) that a Court would even entertain hearing such a case.

16 hours ago, Thai Ron said:

I know a fella who got deported for being in the wrong place at the wrong time (Police conducted a raid on an office and charged everyone with working without a permit even though he was just meeting a friend)

He paid 250000 baht to a fixer (who I presume bribed a court official to remove the blacklisting) and was back in the country 2 months later like nothing had happened.

 

I'm sorry but that is just hear say... court officials have nothing to do with immigration and they certainly no access to the immigration system to be able to expunge such a ban.

OP…. In your original post you asked “Anyone has experience with reversing the ban?  Are there lawyers who has done it before? (Successfully)".

To be honest, your chances of having your overstay ban expunged are extremely remote.  The ban has been imposed by immigration in accordance with the Ministerial Regulation and there is no official route for appealing against that ban.

There are a large number of agents/lawyers who claim to have connections in high places and will sweet talk you into believing that they can get your ban removed for a ‘fee’.  These people will happily string you along and take your money with little/no comeback when they don’t come up with the goods.

You mentioned in a later post that you would be willing to pay to be able to return to Thailand.  If you were able to find a Mr Fix-it, you will be talking in the order of 10 million Baht plus. 

Just now, overherebc said:

Seems right. Been searching a few UK Gov' sites and they do state that.

Believe 2006 was the year UK started chips in PP's.

2005 actually.

32 minutes ago, BWPattaya said:

A couple of years ago a friend of mine (who had been deported) came back from the Uk. He had changed his name, legally, and had a new “clean” passport. He was arrested and made to buy another ticket to fly back to the UK. 

So, getting your new “clean” passport will count for nothing. Your history is there whatever you do. 

 

Correct... "getting a new clean passport counts for nothing".

The moment the IO scans the new passport, the immigration system tries to locate information against that new passport number.  Because it is new it will obviously not show up.  The system then does a search based upon: country code + gender + date of birth + family name + given names.  If it can only match part of the information the system displays photos of persons who it knows.  Surprisingly, using country code + gender + date of birth the number of potential matches is relatively small so the IO can quickly identify the person from previous entry photos.

25 minutes ago, overherebc said:

..... I can't see any ref' to the previous passport noted by the UK issuing office, unless it's in the 'chip'.

The biometric chip contained in your passport contains exactly the same information that is printed on the main (photo page).  This includes your photo and signature.  The information is encrypted and can only be read by authorised passport scanner systems.  The purpose of the chip is to make it harder to forge the passport and easier to detect a forgery.

No information is added when for example a person is refused entry or deported from a country or acquires a criminal record etc.

36 minutes ago, hapacadabra said:

So if I (and people in my situation) are reading the advice correctly...

 

it's that, the airport *will* put a notation listing my previous passport number, *but*, that this shouldn't really scare me, because immigration will know exactly who I am, regardless? Even without any notation - when I return to Thailand with my new passport - they know me, and all my entries/exits.

 

The only benefit is potentially at the consulate-level? IE - if/when I go to make a new Visa somewhere, the consulate will either see a notation (if I make the passport in Thailand), or they see nothing (if I make the passport elsewhere). Little-to-no benefit there, I imagine?

If you have a new passport prior to leaving Thailand immigration may, or may not, put a notation regarding your previous passport and or entry history into your new one.  Even if they do not put anything into your new passport when you leave the immigration system will automatically link your new and old passports the moment the immigration officer scans the new passport photo page and they will be able to see your entry/exit history on their screen.  So any notation is of no consequence as far as immigration is concerned.

The only bonus of you getting a new passport outside Thailand will be if you apply for a new visa.  The embassy/consulate will not be aware of your history as they do not have direct access to the immigration system.  However, you should be aware that the issuing of a visa is not a guarantee of entry.  Entry is given at the discretion of the immigration officer at the point of entry (and they will be able see your previous entry/exit history).

14 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

"I was stopped at customs 12 years ago when I attempted to go back to home country from Bangkok. Apparently, when I was given a free trip to Bangkok by a friend with a ticket that transits in Bangkok to go to Japan, he took my boarding pass and gave to a Chinese lady to board with a fake passport bearing my name n details but with her picture.  [ Local] authorities launched an investigation for around a year and cleared me and returned my passport. I have never attempted to enter Thailand since then and let the matter bury."

 

Ma'am can you please elaborate on this. Restate this story in a little more detail. If you did not do anything wrong, refuse to be a victim. Prevent others from becoming a victim like you.

Would you have the courage to find this friend who did this to you?

How are you certain that he created a fake passport with your details -have you seen it? 

How do you know it was a Chinese lady? Does she know your 'friend' better than you? Can she testify against him?

Have you received any document from your local authorities which attests to your name being cleared? Did you have no use for

your passport when it was confiscated by them?

 

Hope I am not being rude to you by asking you these questions. 

 

 

Well, now that  the OP has provided you with all the details that you requested you will be able to raise her case (along with the others) when you have your meeting with the Prime Minister, Minister of Foreign Affairs and the Minister of the Interior.  I would also suggest that you also make an appointment to see the Minister of Justice when you come to visit Thailand.

12 hours ago, BritTim said:

If someone wishes to stay full time in Thailand, the extension route is probably easiest. For people who want to spend long periods in Thailand combined with extended periods outside, the O-A visa offers greater flexibility. With extensions, you are obliged to be in Thailand in a specific time window to complete the formalities. No such limitation exists with the long stay visa. Further, someone spending long periods in Thailand, but not full time, might not want to transfer 800,000 baht to a Thai account three months before each extension. The better option depends on circumstances.

I certainly agree with you in so far that much will depend upon the individual’s personal circumstances and preferences.

However, just to clarify a couple of points: 

Firstly, the OP does not need to deposit the equivalent of 800,000 Baht in a Thai bank, seasoned for 60 days prior to the date of applying for the extension to stay based upon retirement.  That is just one of three possible options to meet the financial requirements.  They can just obtain a letter confirming their earnings/pension (equivalent to 65,000 Baht per month) from their embassy.  Depending upon location, immigration might ask to see some proof that funds have been transferred into Thailand in order to support their stay.

Secondly, regarding length of stay in or away from Thailand.  There is no controls on how long an individual must stay in Thailand.  Neither is there restrictions on the length of time that they can stay out of Thailand when on an extension of stay coupled with either a single or multi re-entry permit.

The major  benefit, I believe, for the OP in obtaining a one year extension of stay based upon retirement over obtaining a non-A-O in his/her home country is that the OP doesn't need to obtain a medical and police check certificates, both of which can be very expensive and (as discussed) difficult to obtain.

The possible downside of obtaining an extension of stay (and permits to re-enter) here in Thailand is on some occasions having to deal with less that helpful immigration offices, but that’s true the world over.

I am surprised that the resident expert (Ubonjoe) hasn’t offered his advice on this… must be slipping.  I don’t joke, he really is the expert on visa matters.

I’m not sure why you are going to all the trouble of getting an A-O visa in your home country with all the hassle and added cost of obtaining medical certificate and police checks.

If I was you, I would get a single entry non-O visa which will give you permission to stay for 90 days.  Then in the last 30 days go to the local immigration and get it converted to an extension to stay (1 year) based upon retirement.  No need for medical certificate or police check.

You will need to prove that you have sufficient fund to maintain your stay which is a) 800,000 Baht in the bank at the day of filing for the extension which need to have been 'seasoned' for 60 days, or  an annual income of 65,000 Baht per month, or c) a combination of a) + b).  You can get  as an affidavit from the US Embassy in Bangkok.

Hope this helps.

14 minutes ago, Mattd said:

100% agree, I am not saying her passport will be submitted to disembark, what I am saying is that her blacklisting will come up prior to arrival and like APIS it would say no can get off, the issue is more of one of security, unlike an airport, ships and ports are relatively easy to get off and through and the authorities know this, which may or may not be a problem for the OP.

I do think that on the basis of probabilities all will be fine and immigration will just insist she stays onboard.

 

I for one will be very interested to know how this pans out.

Although it is possible that immigration might pick up on a ban 12 years ago, I very much doubt that they will board the vessel and ‘drag’ the OP off the ship if he/she has elected not to disembark.  There would be no point.

As for security, again according to the Immigration Act B.E.2422  Section 27(1) the owner/person in charge is responsible for ensuring that no one leaves the vessel without permission from a ‘competent official’ (read immigration officer) .  There are very substantial penalties if there is a breach of these regulations.

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

I've worked and still do, in International Shipping for over 30 years and I absolutely guarantee this is not rubbish, the vessel will almost certainly be pre-cleared in to the port, the logistics of not doing this are very clear to see, the physical stamping of the passports is only a SMALL part of a vessel's inward and outward clearance, there is a lot more to it than just that.

As I have stated, the ship's agents will have submitted all of the certification and documentation to the port authority in advance of the vessel arriving in to port, there are bunch of IMO FAL forms to send in, one of these is a passenger list, which has details of the passengers, including full name, nationality passport number and date and place of of birth, this is what will be used to pre-clear the folks onboard prior to the physical boarding of immigration at latest the night before the arrival.

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Facilitation/FormsCertificates/Pages/Default.aspx

 

The vessel may be foreign flagged, but it can be boarded by the Thai authorities for whatever reason they like, port state control inspection, customs inspection etc. etc. and is not a sanctuary for illegals.

 

Liken it to a foreign registered car that was in Thailand!

 

Mattd… I agree with you that Thai immigration have the power to board and inspect any vessel once it has entered the Kingdom, as per the Immigration Act B.E.2522 Section 24.

I would also agree with you that the owner, or person in charge, of the vessel is required by immigration to submit a list of names and details of all passengers and crew prior to the vessels arrival.  Again, this fact is clearly stated in the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 Section 26.

Although the vessel owner/person in charge is required to submit a list of all passengers/crew, that list will also indicate those passengers who are intending to disembark.   As far as I’m aware this information is supplied electronically to the Thai Authorities approximately 24 hours before arrival as most modern cruise ships do have satellite communications systems.

The requirement of a list of passengers/crew is identical to that required of the airlines transporting passengers to Thailand (APIS).

However, I would concur with a number of other poster who have indicated that only passengers who have chosen to disembark the vessel will have their passports examined and stamped prior to disembarkation.  Those who do not disembark do not have their passport stamped – why would they when they have not been granted entry.  This has certainly been my experience on the cruises that my wife and I have taken during the past 10 years.

The same basic principles apply to a flight arriving at BKK on route to say Australia.  Some passengers will disembark because BKK is their destination and they will pass through passport control in order to enter the Kingdom.  Others whose destination is Australia will normally have to disembark and pass through the transit facility before re-joining their flight.  Those passengers are not subject to any passport inspection my Thai Authorities.

I like the idea of immigration officers being on board the vessel from its port of departure so that they can expedite  passengers clearance prior to arrival… Does that happen on flights as well?  I can just imagine the IO all volunteering for that job  .

Ok so you only have 2 pages left in your passport.  That’s a good reason to get a new one and will no doubt enhance your chance of getting a new TV in it.

However, it won’t wipe the slate clean with immigration.  Two things to remember.  Firstly, a visa is not a guarantee that you are allowed to enter the country.  That decision is at the discretion of the immigration officer at the point of entry.

Secondly, the moment that the IO scans your photo page of new passport their system will link your new passport with your old one, and bingo up will pop your entry history.  As I said, it is then up to the IO if he/she allows you to enter or not.

If you’re wondering how the immigration system links your old and new passports, it’s quite simple.  At the bottom of the photo page is all your basic information located between <<<<  >>>>>.  When the system cannot find your new passport number it compares the country code + gender + date of birth + family name + given name with that already in their system.  If more than one person shares the same details, their photos (taken during last entry) appears on the IO’s screen.

Good luck

The IDC in Bangkok is located at 507 Soi Suan Phlu, South Sathon Road.  It is about 15 minutes walk from the BTS at Sala Dang.

You will only be allowed to go into the detention centre if you are visiting a named inmate.  Immigration will not provide you with a list of detainees.