SCOTT FITZGERSLD

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Leave the Lao one blank and put self for the Thai one.

Guarantor in this cased means a reference.

THANKS for all the replies here, they really help.

The thread here answers all i wanted to ask but was too ashamed...

But what question is still left open : WHAT THE HECK IS THE "LETTER FROM EMBASSY"

(section 5 in the embassy requirements)?

i believe this was the original question and it remains unclear.

is is a declarion i make by myself and just take to the embassy?

or is it a letter prepared by the embassy, refering to my past emplyment?

becasue acctually, i don't really want to retire now, i just want the retirement extention...

22 hours ago, wordchild said:

All of this is accurate , according to Thai tax law.
Incidentally, other countries make similar distinctions (for taxation purposes) between funds brought into country during the current tax year= income, and funds brought in the following tax year= capital ie assets (so therefore  not subject to tax).

A line need to be drawn somewhere, I guess:

eg: aspects of the U.K. taxation of U.K  resident “non Dom’s” is actually quite similar to  the Thai system. The (big) difference is that , under Thai taxation law, all individuals, including Thai residents and citizens, can benefit from this  overseas income concession.

  “ There are non so blind as those who will not see” (Jonathan Swift)

INTERESTING.

Thanks for your reply.

but than how about if a thai tax resident is doing his trading in a thai bank account?

than any profits will propably be taxed as income , because the bank account

is in thailand.

than, why would anyone use thai bank account to do his trading  / investing?

you better keep all your assets and financial trading  / investing in banks 

outside thailand, and than it will be considered income sourced from outside

thailand, and than wont be taxed in thailand (if not transferred into thailand in the 

same calendar year)...??

does not make sense to me....

On 10/20/2019 at 11:30 PM, dimitriv said:

 

I didn't want to reply...  But you make a mess of it.

 

>> Thailand taxes worldwide income, just as the US does. But unlike the US, only residents are taxed on their worldwide income while non-residents are taxed only on the income earned in Thailand.

 

That is 100% true. But there is 1 addition missing:

 

"If such income is considered foreign sourced income (income derived from work performed outside of  Thailand, business conducted outside of Thailand, or property situated outside of Thailand) it will be taxed in Thailand only if: i. an individual is a Thai tax resident; and ii. such individual brings such income into Thailand in the same calendar year that he receives it."

 

So your quote is right, if you bring the money into Thailand in the same calender year.

 

Mazars has a nice explanation with examples:  https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Tax/Thai-sourced-income-and-residence-rules

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for the link. but it makes things even more puzzling.

as exaplained in the link, THAIALND will tax only income sent into thailand IN THE SAME CALENDAR YEAR.

so for example, if i made millions selling something online or trading securities,

and the profits are paid into an account outside thailand on 31 december , and than

i sent them into thailand on the 1 january of the next CALENDAR year, than i will not

have to pay any taxes on those gains, even if i am considered thai tax resident....

i think i need GIN AND VODKA RED BULL now.

WOW, so many nervous guys here...i only asked a question...

no need to get so irrtated....

what i did not understand is how i will be taxed if i will earn capital gains

by trading stocks in an account outside of thailand, vs. an account in thailand.

say for example, as a thai tax resident (anyone who stay in thailand more than 6 months a year,

regardless of the visa he hold or does not hold, is considered a tax resident in thailand) who

earned , say, 100,000 USD by trading stocks in a bank account in singapore,

and keep it there for two years, i do not have to pay tax on them because i did not

bring the profits into thailand in the same year they were earned.

but say i earn the 100,000 USD by trading stocks in a THAI bank account ,

A bank account based in thailand, than will the profits will be taxed as if they were

generated INSIDE THAILAND?

In that case, thai tax laws hurt thai financial industry, because thai tax resident will prefer

to trade stock = gain on capital in account based OUTSIDE OF THAILAND,

so they will not be taxed in thailand (if not withdrawn into thailand in the same year).

This way Thailand can be semi tax heaven, because it does not tax profits from capital

in accounts based outside thailand...i guess they do it because of security issues for high net

worth people...if it is true...otherwise...why would they do it ?

Just wondering...

On 10/18/2019 at 1:45 AM, saengd said:

There is no global income requirement along the same lines as the US system, the taxation implications only exist when the income is remitted.

 

Once again, there is no capital gains tax in Thailand.

YES THERE IS a global income tax requirement in thailand.

maybe you want to check for updates on line.

and yes there is capital gain tax in thailand. 

a thai tax resident will pay 37% on his profits from stock trading, but limits apply.

seems like you dont know what you are talking about.

thailand tax laws are ever changing, like in most other countries.

Thailand taxes worldwide income, just as the US does. But unlike the US, only residents are taxed on their worldwide income while non-residents are taxed only on the income earned in Thailand.

define PEOPLE...

a friend of mine came back from a trip to china and said "the people there are very nice".

his girlfriend complained: " what people? all you did was looking at young pretty woman".

my friend replied: "that's my definition of "people" ".

6 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

As long as you can keep all your immigration and related financial business within the corrupt loop - agent, bank official, on-side Immigration Officer - then you'll be ok. 

i guess you miss one word here - OUT.

otherwise, all you say does not make sense

Just now, dimitriv said:

 

You are really making it too complicated. Just keep the money abroad ????   Or use an investment account or bank account abroad with a debit credit card. Use that to pay in the Big-C, in a restaurant. Your money goes directly from the foreign bank account to the supermarket or restaurant.  It will never be on your Thai bank account. There is no way they can track this.

 

 

problem is, as you mentioned, that banks abroad report foreign accounts to the country where i am tax resident. Banks abroad demand to know where i am tax resident and than report my account to that country. Thailand does not report. not yet. that is why i prepfer to move to thailand, to register thailand as

my tax residency and than to feel more free about my bank accounts abroad.

it is not me who make things complicated, it is the global system who becomes more and more

like financial concentration camp.

even using your card to pay in another country might be considered, technically, money laundry.

18 minutes ago, saengd said:

Part of the problem is trying to separate income earned in any particular year, from existing savings

THAT is indeed the problem, how do they decide / search if it was earned the same year it was sent?

from what i read, a tax resident in thailand must pay taxes on income earned ALL OVER THE WORLD, besides capital gains .

so the question is, what is defined as capital gains? say i hold a stock for two years, than sell at

a profit and transfer to thailand the same year i sold - will it be considered taxable income?

AND how will they decide if it was earned the same year?

ohhh, thailand, so easy, and yet so blurry.

6 minutes ago, moontang said:

as a foreigner, it is way down the list of places to trade. 

what mean? as a foreigner  / local, all i should care about are

the taxes and comisions i have to pay.

and of course, if i trade the right way, than i don't have to care about anything

anymore...

it is very unlikely that thailand will see some crazy north korean style military

government that will steal all foreigners accounts (we saw it recently in EU country

like cyprus, where the EU taxed all bank deposits as they liked...)

so the only question, for a foreign trader, is...what are the visas neccasary to open

a trading account in thailand?

http://www.scbs.com/en/product/product-offshore/

how about buying foreign investment / securities via thai banks?

i saw that SCB offer offshore investment account, with quite

god fees, and access to stock markets in many countries.

does anyone know if those foreign trading accounts are allowed also for

foreigners on retirement extention? and if other thai banks offer them?

http://www.scbs.com/en/product/product-offshore/

2 minutes ago, moontang said:

CIMB and Krungsri both offer savings accounts in the 1.3% range.  A high percentage of offices accept FD, which simply call for a forfeiture of some interest if redeemed early. 

how about buying foreign investment / securities via thai banks?

i own shares in SHELL company, which pays 6.5% annual dividend.

i saw that SCB offer offshore investment account, with quite

god fees, and access to stock markets in many countries.

does anyone know if those foreign trading accounts are allowed also for

foreigners on retirement extention? and if other thai banks offer them?

http://www.scbs.com/en/product/product-offshore/

from time to time, people post here about how they were "deported / stopped / denied entry"

in thai airports, telling us how well they behaved all those years and the advanced degrees

they hold from several universities.

i must come to the deffence of thai immigration , based on my experience.

i was also told by immigration officers in thailand that i come to thailand

too many times on tourist /waiver visas, and that if i will continue to do so,

they will deny my entry.

so i kept on doing so and i was warned again and again, until i understood...the nice way.

that is, i understood i better issue the right kind of visa.

so it must be mentioned, to the deffence of thai immigration authorities, that they

do give all the right warnings on time, nobody is denied entry just like that

out of the blue.

all the people who come to complain here about how they were denied entry and how

"thailand no like falang anymore" are just talking nonsense.

The thai immigration authorities are quite fair when dealing with most visitors

and give them the right - and kind - amount of warnings before denying their entry.

17 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Unless he is really laundering money, there is no way somebody can be accused of laundering money and put in jail. I simply don't beleive the storey. And if the person had hundreds of millions of dollars, why did he bring all his money to tthailand? Did he plan to buy 100 brothels (aka bars)?

you can read about this story if you search "dutch man 100 years thai jail".

it was 100's of millions of baht, not dollars.

he propably brought all this money to thailand to save it from confiscation

by EU atax authorities (he had some tax problems in his home country), but

thai law say that tax evasion is not a reason for money laundry.

the bottom line of this story is that the verdict this dutch man got

was not according to the thai law. later his 100 years sentence was reduced to 70

years, and later to 20 years. why?

because that is how the "senior officers" felt like. that is the problem

with flexible rule of law like thailand's. it might feel nice

to get shortcuts like those semi legal visa agents, but it can

get nasty when the unsystematic system turns it's table on you.

10 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Of course it's a bribe and a corrupt illegal payment. While not illegal for an officer to waive the financial requirements, taking cash to do so is illegal, it's not a service, it's a crime! Let the buyer beware, some have had their extensions done in another province to where they live and have met with difficulties when going to their own office. Lets not pretend this money making is anything other than what it is.

i don't care if it's illegal or imoral. all i care about is if it will not

get ME into trouble.

4 minutes ago, moontang said:

Or you could just take 2% here and then only pay 1900 every year, and 100 for the letter.  You really need a banking presence here, anyways.

i don't feel comfortable transfering money into thailand, after some horror

stories i've heard, that happaned to people with "TOO MUT" money in their

thai bank.

a recent story that was published on this board was that of a dutch man

who was sentenced to 100 years (!!) in jail for "money laundry" by thai court, while

his crime was only tax issues in this home EU country.

his mistake was transfering hundreads of millions of baht to thai bank accounts,

the thai banks allowed the payments no problem, and years later he lost it all.

just like any senior immigration officer can issue or cancell visas as much as he likes, 

so the authorities here or in other countries can, for the right amounts, arrest

you or confiscate your bank money , with and without the help of this or that agent.

so better keep your thai bank account thin and slim.

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

This was covered off in another thread a short while ago and I remember posting a few paragraphs from an edict which was issued by immigration and it stated that, "the senior officer in the immigration department has the authority to sign off on a retirement extension without proof of funds" – – – or something along those lines, and it was made very clear that the senior officer has dispensation to do exactly that, so I can't see it being illegal?

THANKS for your reply.

i guess that explain it all.

that is the explanation to the legality of those agents

and i guess this is how they do it.

maybe twisted, unjust, inconsistent, but i don't mind, as long

as it will not get me into troubles.

8 minutes ago, dimitriv said:

 

I you transfer 150K into Thailand this sum consists of the 100K you invested and 50K profit. According to the law you have to pay tax over the 50K.  If you made (earned) the 100K you invested in that same year also you will have to pay tax over 150K.

 

If you transfer money into Thailand it is better to only transfer money that was made in previous years.

 

 

 

really? that is interesting...but how will they know when i made it? will

they demand to show them all the bank records?

AND what if i open a trading account in a thai bank, will the same

ONE YEAR = TAX apply?

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In case you don't know be aware of the scam artists.

I remember a visa agent from a long time ago. It seems he had his home made stamp and the he "approved and issued" all those visas.

I think they allowed him 7 days to leave the country...

 

my fear is what will happan to me, if i used such an agent, legal or not, in

case he gets caugth?

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The applicant is responsible that all the information on the forms and all submitted documents are correct.

If someone fills in the form for you and does it correct, fine.

If someone writes incorrect information and/or i.e. an incorrect document from a bank then it's your responsibility to check your application and all documents.

 

Personally I used an agent a long time ago for visa runs. And now our company uses an agent to make sure we fill out all the forms correctly and we submit all the necessary documents. If we do something wrong then our agent tell us to correct if before we go to immigration.

 

So in principle an agent can be helpful. Just make sure you check what you sign.

We are not talking about "companies" here.

THE agents who do it promise they can get the retirement visa extention

WITHOUT having to keep 800K baht in a thai bank.

that is all the point here. People pay those agents 15-30K so they will

not have to send - and keep - 800 k BAHT in a thai bank account !

And that's , my friend, brings to the question, is this practice legal, or, more

precisely, will it not cause problems for ME, the small time average joe

who use their service?

Just now, The Cobra said:

I have heard this before and I dont agree at all.

 

If the services were illegal they would not be allowed to operate and certainly not allowed to advertise the service.

 

The stamp/visa is issued by the legal authority, by a lawful officer entitled to issue such a visa/stamp. The actions of the agent are NOT illegal, the actions of the issuing officer could be described as questionable in some circumstances but the agent is not doing anything illegal. 

 

If at some stage the actions of the immigration officer concerned was brought into question/doubt that is another issue and nothing at all to do with the agent.

 

 

 

i agree with your disagreement. it is not clear. that is why i decided to ask here.

indeed if those visa agents were absolutely illegal, they would'nt feel so free to

advertise their services right here, on this site !!

1 minute ago, Momofarang said:

What do you reckon should happen? Immediate deportation? or deportation following a couple of months in the slammer? This is probably what would happen, as T.I.T, while the two other parties involved in the fraud would remain unscathed and "resume duties" after a short cool off period.

i know of a case in another country, not thailand, when the visa stamp holder was arrested in the airport, because the agent used fake visa stamps (you pay him for the "visa extention", give him

your passport, than get it back with what he claimed is ligitimate visa, but only in the airport,

when you try leave the country, it is discovered, by the IO that it is just fake visa stamp...)

the price paid by the innocent fake visa holder was heavy : few weeks in jail, heavy fines and lawyer fees, and aventually deportation and 5 year ban from that country.

Governments around the world, with help from banks, are

imposing more and more laws and regulations on money

flows between accounts and countries, with heavy punishments

for what they define as "money laundry", which defer from country to country

(for example, in thailand tax evasion is not considered a reason for

money laundry, but in the U.S. and EU , laundrying money from tax evasion can lead

to money laundry persecution with up to 10 years jail punishment !!).

So it is very important to check one's legal position when

comes to money transfers or even stock trading.

That is why i would like to ask here about the thai law regarding capital gains

from other countries.

The thai law states that capital gains, for thai tax resident (anyone who

stayed in thailand for more than 6 months in a year, regardless the visa),

WON'T BE TAXED if the profit was not transfer to thailand in that same year in was gained.

I tried to understand what it means, even with the help of tax expert, but not sure.

For example, let's say i purchased 100K worth of security in one year. than the

investment gained 200% in few months , and now it is worth 300K.

So if transfered into thailand, in that same year, 150K, will there be capital

gain tax on that amount? and what about the other 50K amount

which i did not transfer into thailand in that same year?

will they become tax free (in thailand) and they can be sent to thailand, tax free, 

in the next year / years?

I see advertisements here about "visa agents" who can bring

a retirement visa extention for a fee. using their services for a fee

will eliminate the need for the cash deposits in thai bank, both

for 800K for two months before the visa application, AND

the 400K needed to be in the account during one year.

QUESTION IS, OF COURSE, How legal are those agents and their

service? What are the legal implications for the one who hire

their services, in case of complication? For example, can

an immigration officer decide that their visa stamp is illegal or fake,

and than fine or even imprison the visa holder, AKA me?