Mike Teavee

8 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

You are wrong - twice.

 

ATM transactions are not reportable - because they do not involve a foreign transaction to a foreign bank account. 

When a foreign country receives transaction reports, they do not get advised every transaction of every person.

They only get advised of foreign transfers to a bank account - not payments made using a credit/debit card. 

You could be in Australia paying for your holiday to Thailand - TRD does not get information.

There is no transaction record of ATM withdrawals with the Thai bank to report to TRD. 

 

He did not state that at all regarding bringing cash into Thailand - which is definitely taxable.

When you do so you are supposed to declare it - plus when you exchange it they will record your Passport.

Yes the chances of being 'caught' are slim, but it is definitely not how to avoid income taxes.

However, having said that I know of several Thais that regularly travel to Thailand with cash and give it to the family. 

 

He basically says that "Only money sent to your Thai Bank account" is considered assessable income, me walking in with a pocket full of cash is not me sending money to my Thai Bank account.  [Queued it up for you, you're welcome]

Edit: I completely agree with you that bringing cash into the country is remitting money but I also believe taking money out of an ATM is remitting money.

9 minutes ago, firewight said:

In this video a tax lawyer states credit card purchases and ATM withdrawals are not taxable as they are not hitting your personal Thai bank account...

Again, he's not a Tax Lawyer (Lawyer is a protected profession in Thailand so foreigners cannot be Lawyers) & I personally think he's very wrong.

What I think he means is you won't get caught doing it (ATM transactions are not CRS reported, whereas I'm pretty sure any remittances sent to your Thai bank account will be shared with TRD) but that is not the same as saying it's not remitted income if you get audited.

If I brought £50,000 in cash into Thailand (reported to Immigration at both ends) & changed it for THB at the money changers according to him that wouldn't be money remitted to Thailand but I think very few people would agree with him (I've literally walked the money in so how can it not be remitted). 

13 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Nope. For those UK folks subject to remittance tax, here's what is said about using a UK issued credit card to make purchases, either in the UK, or abroad.

 

So, only if you pay off your UK credit card bill with foreign source income or gains, will it be considered a taxable remittance. Pay it off from your UK bank -- no remittance tax.

 

Thus, only if I pay off my US credit card bill with, say, a check from my Bangkok Bank account -- or any other foreign source money, will the credit card charges being paid off be considered the equivalent of remitted foreign source income (using the UK example, which is the only one I can find).

 

So, when I purchase something in Thailand with my US credit card -- and pay it off from my US checking account -- this is not the equivalent of treating the purchase value as a marker for foreign source remitted income. Even if the money I pay it off with would be considered assessable foreign source income -- had it been remitted to Thailand to make that purchase in lieu of my credit card.

 

Thus, a credit card loan to buy a hamburger in Bangkok is treated the same as a bank loan to buy a condo in Bangkok. Both are loans, and both are paid back from a US source -- and are thus not treated as the equivalent of foreign source remitted income.

From your link, It's this part that I believe matters... 

Credit card issued by an overseas bank or other financial institution

Where an overseas credit card is used in the UK, the cardholder is effectively authorising the credit card company to pay the bill for the goods or service in just the same way as if they had instructed the bank to make a payment directly to the person supplying the goods or services.

The terms of credit card agreements may differ as to the moment of ‘indebtedness’ between the cardholder and the credit card company. However, the use of the credit card to pay for goods used or received in the UK, or services provided in the UK will create a debt.

The use of the individual’s untaxed foreign income or gains to pay the credit card company in respect of the debt will be a taxable remittance.

So If you switch Thailand for the UK then I am using an overseas credit card (from UK) in Thailand & authorising the overseas/UK credit card company to pay the bill for the goods or service & if I pay that using cash in the UK would be taxable remittance in Thailand IF they applied the same rules. 

Just now, Mike Lister said:

DWP Blackpool! You probably knew Parkinson, head of IT at one time?

This was 2006 so my memory is very rusty apart from the WW2 prefabs we worked out of (Lytham St Annes not quite Blackpool) 

Had some good days there, nice bunch of people 🙂

12 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

No, not you, not even close. 

 

I was offered a job with EDS in the US in 1972, the question that cost me the job, just after it was offered, was, are you OK to wear a white short everyday. 

 

 

Lol, you dodged a bullet there. 

Just kidding, I was only with them for 10 weeks, I joined to take a role moving a data centre in Australia but managed to save DWP £2Milllion on their MS licences in my 1st week so they wanted to keep me around... In BLACKPOOL!

It's scary how non-commercially minded government departments are, they were paying £2Million on SharePoint licenses for their UAT environments... WTH - MS doesn't charge for UAT licenses (not that their MS rep would tell them that).   

42 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Similarly, people who claim to be investment bankers are most likely to be those who have worked for a bank, most probably in IT, but they are by no means investment bankers, as we mostly understand the title.

Maybe I'm paranoid but I think you're referring to me here but I can categorically state that I have never said I was or even hinted at being an "Investment Banker"

I have (repeatedly) said that I spent most of my career working in IT for a UK Bank mainly in it's Stockbroking Arm (Doesn't make me a Stockbroker) but also in it's Investment bank arm (Doesn't make me an Investment Banker), It's Private Bank arm (never been a Private Banker) it's Mortgage Arm (no surprises that I've never been a Mortgage Advisor), it's Credit Card arm & even it's "Estates & Trusts Arm" (Not an Accountant or Lawyer though).

Just a plain old IT Dude who went where the firm sent him... . 

Oh I also worked for EDS at DWP (UK Department of Work & Pensions), doesn't make me a Pension specialist either 🙂

12 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I am assuming it is a UK (or at least non-Thai) credit card, correct? 

 

What if you buy something in Thailand, with a UK credit card, and then pay your credit card with a transfer from your Thai bank? 

 

What if you buy something in Thailand, with a UK credit card, and post it as a gift to someone in the UK? 

 

My personal opinion is that if you buy something in Thailand on your UK credit card (Lets say a new TV) or purchase a service originating from Thailand (E.g. a flight back to the UK) then you are remitting money into Thailand.

Other guys opinion is that a Credit Card purchase is a short term loan & loans are not considered to be assessable income, I originally thought the same but found out that the UK treats any Credit Card purchase as remitted income & as that's the only country I'm familiar with that taxes on a remittance basis changed my opinion. 

23 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

The question of whether those remittances are assessable income is far more complex because the answer depends on the nature, source and origin of funds, in the home bank account from which the remittance was made. If savings, no, if income, probably yes.

There are, as yet undiscovered, tribes in the Amazon rain forest who know that taking money out of an ATM is remitting money into Thailand. 

The credit card question is much more complex, my personal (layman) opinion is that If I use my credit card to pay for something in the UK, I'm not remitting money into Thailand, if I use it to book a hotel in Vietnam, I'm not remitting money into Thailand however, if I use it to purchase a flight from Thailand (lets say with Qatar) then I am at least at risk of being considered as remitting money into Thailand... 

BTW Hopefully people will read the 1st part as the joke that it's meant to be🙂 

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

But that was not the question. 

That was my question (which Ben replied to) 
 

What question did you have in mind? 

Just now, Ben Zioner said:

I mention ONE video, the full record of the meeting organised at the Alliance Française. It lasts one hour and a half and the main language is French, hence no link here. 

Although I'm "Ok" in (Schoolboy) French, I don't fancy trying to sit through 1.5 hours of it so can I ask... Did it say the same thing & ATM withdrawals/ Credit card usage wouldn't be considered as remittance?

 No use to me as my UK Bank charges me a fortune to withdraw money overseas but I can imagine US guys with Schwab accounts would be very happy if that's the case. 

Just now, shdmn said:

Once again, what part of "they do want you tp have a Thai tax number" did you not understand?

well I don't understand tp but then again I am English 

The guy posted he was going to use his US SS "TIN" number... I said (guessed) it wouldn't work 

Problem?

Just now, shdmn said:

WTF are you talking about?  It's a Thai tax number.  Not a US SS #.  Is English not your first language?

I replied to this... 

8 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Not sure if they want foreign tax numbers but they do want you to have a Thai tax number if you are in Thailand longer than 6 months.

I've never seen a US SS Number but would bet the house that it's not going to work as a TIN in Thailand 🙂 

I have a TIN and know it's nothing like my UK NH number or Tax reference.... 

44 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

 

I did some digging into the qualifications of the "tax expert", his CV on Linkedin says:

 

He graduated from the University of Wales.

His current role is that he's head of a food and beverage company!

He's a member of various groups that are open to many people, ie, three Chambers of Commerce.

The staff numbers at his business are not shown anywhere.

And that's it, the rest is just words without specifics.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/luca-bernardinetti-750b9654/?originalSubdomain=th

 

AKA... Another "Chancer" in Thailand... 

9 hours ago, shdmn said:

And that's a bad thing?  I know American Lawyers working in Thailand.  According to them it's not much of a problem.  I believe they just have Thai lawyers working for them doing all the legal paperwork.

Not a bad thing at all... 

Maybe I just worded it badly but my point was Somebody had a go at another poster & held this guy up as a Thai Tax Lawyer & I simply pointed out he cannot be a lawyer in Thailand because he's not Thai.

That's it

10 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

 

This is laughable, like an amateur sportsman criticizing a professional.

 

Take some time to look into this lawyers background. 

 

He (Luca) is the real deal, long time in TH, married to a Thai royal descendant who is Managing Partner of the firm, highly connected, deals with public sector government and large businesses in Thailand.

 

Much closer to an authoritative source, than any of the speculation on here. 

 

 

What's laughable is your inability to understand the fact that somebody held this guy up as an expert "Thai Tax Lawyer" & I simply pointed out that he cannot be a "Thai Tax Lawyer" because Lawyer is a reserved profession in Thailand.

You can only be a Lawyer in Thailand if you're Thai (I typed that really slowly so hopefully you'll be able to understand it this time). 

The Guy has shown himself to be an idiot on both of the videos I've seen him in but please, feel free to follow all of his advice & I'm sure he'll be there to give you legal advice (Illegally) should you need it. 

25 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

He is an Italian Lawyer, but the chairmen and managing director of MPG.

 

I found this article explaining who he is and little more about the company.

https://expatlifeinthailand.com/mpg-20th-anniversary/

 

Can't see any articles germane to this guy on that link but I made the point as somebody was holding him up to be an authority on Thai Tax Law and he's not a Thai Tax Lawyer. 

I remember watching the 1st video & thinking this guy was talking out of his ass, his comment about "Only money sent from your offshore bank account to your Thai Bank account counts" is ridiculous.

5 hours ago, shdmn said:

So you don't believe an actual tax lawyer in Thailand, but you will believe anonymous comments on an internet forum overrun with clowns and conspiracy theorists?

Is he really a Tax Lawyer? - The video hints at it but doesn't say for sure & he doesn't look Thai to me [Lawyer is a restricted Professions in Thailand]... 

If you are a professional lawyer in your home country and would like to practice your profession in Thailand, you should be aware that foreigners are prohibited to work and provide services in legal counselling, litigation and others such as representing as a lawyer in all types of cases, acting on behalf of clients in legal matters, drafting contracts or making legal documents.

https://msnagroup.com/can-a-foreign-lawyer-work-in-thailand/#:~:text=If you are a professional,on behalf of clients in

15 minutes ago, SAFETY FIRST said:

Good idea, I think the visa agency in Soi Post-office charges 100 baht. 

 

Maneerat charge 100B if you do your Extension with them otherwise it's 200B.

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

It's been a couple of years since I last compared transfers using Wise to transfers using SWIFT.

That comparison assumed it costs $25 in SWIFT fees and 500฿ by the Thai bank to receive the transfer.  At that time the Wise fees were somewhat lower than today.

 

Using SWIFT right now sending $23K (includes $25 fee) to Bangkok bank will give you 841,304฿

Sending $23K via Wise will give you 842,211฿ if you do your own ACH transfer to Wise first with no fee.

 

It looks like if you send about US$25K or more SWIFT will be slightly better.. otherwise use Wise.

Wise is only good for transfers up to 2Million THB (for 3-4 banks, rest of the Banks 50,000 THB) so probably not the right way to go for Purchasing a Property.  

4 minutes ago, poobear said:

I understand the U.S. social security is not taxed in Thailand but I have a question about reporting Social Security funds remitted into Thailand.   Do they need to be reported anywhere on the tax return in Thailand. I am keeping my records about where the Social Security comes from and when how it is transferred into Thailand.        

 

I would emit both my Social security from the U.S. via wire transfer, and also remit assessable income from a separate account.

US SS is covered by the US-TH DTA so is not considered "Assessable Income" & does not need to be reported in Thailand, however your other income may be "Assessable Income" so best to check but if it amounts to <120K THB (Single guy) then no need to file a tax return. 

5 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well simple math would indicate that your "savings already in Thailand" must be quite large..

Whoops, simple maths is beyond me as I completely messed up how much Withheld Interest I'll be able to claim back & it's more like 60K not 8K (a little over 3.5M on deposit at 1.7 %) so now I will be filing a Tax Return for 2024. 

NB. Not trying to "Show Off" here, I'm 19 months away from receiving a pension & whilst I do have passive income in the UK, I don't like to have to rely on it ( https://home.barclays/content/dam/home-barclays/documents/investor-relations/IRNewsPresentations/2020news/20200331-Barclays-Dividend-RNS.pdf 3 days before it was due to pay me enough money to live on for 3 months) so when I moved to Thailand full time in Feb 2020 I moved 6 years living expenses over with me to last me until my pensions kick in.

Very Stupid as the SGD is 20% stronger now than when I moved it, but seemingly smart now as it means I don't have to remit any money for the next 3 years if I don't want to, but by sticking to 435K remittance (my & GF's) tax free numbers) it will last me 4 years - I only need it to last me 19 months.  

I know all about the 1Million Bank Guarantee but IMHO if Bangkok Bank ever did go bust the THB would take such a nosedive I'd probably be much better off financially even if I lost 2.5Million THB so not worried about that at all.

17 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

We're thinking about filing a 2023 return online next week to test the system.  See if we can file without uploading documents, see if we can set up direct deposit of refund check.  If no bank interest statement needed (I have all the numbers in the passbooks), might as well try.

As you're already past the 2023 filing date I wouldn't recommend "Poking the Bear" by filing a late return but I am considering testing out the online system next year by filing a return (for 2024 obviously). 

FWIW I'm limiting my remittances to 235K for me (60K personal allowance, 25K health insurance & 150K 0% tax) & 210K for the GF (60K personal allowance + 150K 0% tax) using savings already in Thailand to make up shortfall, I estimate this should mean that they owe me approx. 8K in withheld tax which even allowing for some tax being due on it, should mean a refund of around 7K.     

2 hours ago, NJHOUSE said:

FYI: If you've been in Thailand since Jan 1st, this Thursday is your last day to exit before becoming a resident for tax purposes. For many, this Friday things get real.

Not for me, I did 20 days (& it was bloody freezing every day) in the UK 16 April - 6 May so have until 15th August 🙂