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vinny41
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Posts posted by vinny41
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17 minutes ago, sandyf said:
Obviously your lack of personal experience forces you to rely on some article.
Glad you appreciated the article
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27 minutes ago, Logosone said:Either you don't get it or you wilfully want to ignore the facts. Statistics only look at what is easily collected as data. So the statistica site takes money paid out by the EU yes.
However, it does not record the fact that the City of London grew exponenttially during the UK's membership of the EU on the back of EU passporting rights for any service providers domiciled in the UK.
If the UK had not been a member of the EU all those international services providers, banks, insurance companies, brokers, law firms, etc would not have set up shop in the City the way they did.
There would not have been same tourism to the UK without EU law allowing free travel.
There would not have been the same influx of EU workers, paying tax in the UK, without freedom of movement.
There would not have been the tax revenue on products the UK was able to sell in the EU thanks to freedom of goods. Fish being a superb example since out of every 3 fish caught by British fishermen, two are sold in the EU
Of course you can't quantify exactly those kinds of benefits, but we KNOW they happened. If anyone ever bothered to seriously calculate those benefits, then it is very obvious that the UK was not a net contributor but a net beneficiary of the EU.
As for child benefit for kids abroad, I'm afraid this is very much a deficiency of the UK system. It exists because the UK wants to allow British nationals who are abroad to make child benefit claims. That Romanians abuse this is to be expected and could be easily stopped, but as usual your UK government does nothing..
In any event, if you're so worried about child benefits, you may want to consider that UK families cost the Exchequer 11.3 billion pounds in child benefits alone. So that puts your 15 milillon for foreigners into context.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40061921
As for EU workers not paying National Insurance, that's the biggest nonsense I ever read, I have personally paid National Insurance and have the card to prove it. So I know that's just nonsense. Quite the opposite, actually, I paid in tens of thousands of pounds in National Insurance and WAS NEVER able to claim this money back from the UK.
Why would you want the UK to leave the common market? Because of your concern about child benefits? Or because you're concerned EU nationals don't pay National Insurance? Both would be nonsense reasons.
It does appear you are the one ignoring the facts
Every Goverment in Europe uses the same criteria for defining which member states are Net Contributors and which member states are net Beneficiaries, you want to create your own definition because the defacto definition does suit you, Sorry it doesn't work that way The UK has been a Net Contributors to the EU budget since day 1 and that wouldn't change until 2021.
As far as Tourism to the UK that a wild guess on your part without any substance
Regarding the child benefit the ECJ was agasint Germany in relation to a Polish worker working in Germany and his children were living in Poland
so nothing to to with a deficiency in the UK benefits system.
And from the BBC that you provided
"One final point - it's not just the British who want to see these bills reduced.
The German government, for instance - which pays far more in child support than the UK does, even to foreign nationals - is also pushing for reductions in the payments, again to better reflect the cost of living in the country in which the child lives."
As to European workers not paying tax and national insurance in the UK that is correct and as far as I know it applies to Posted European workers which i clearly stated in my original post Because it didn't apply in your case doesn't mean it doesn't exist and there even an European website that does provide information if you are a Posted worker
I am more than happy that the UK is leaving the European Union and as far as I am concerned it would have been better if the UK had left 20 years ago
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14 hours ago, Logosone said:
Mercedes Benz cars will always have appeal. That is why they are desired and bought the world over. Not only will they arrive with wheels, light and windows, but with innovations UK carmakers can only dream of.
You should try making such quality products that people actually want to buy. Maybe you wouldn't have such a gaping trade deficit then.
Instead of being servants only. Financial services from the UK will be at the mercy of EU authorities soon. Better learn how to make things again.
I do remember Germany care of Volkswagen produced "Dieselgate" as you say making such a quality product that know one wants to buy Dieselcars throughout Europe falling sales , various cities if you over a certain emission level you are not allowed to drive those cars in those cities.
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8 hours ago, Logosone said:
Absolutely, same with the Poles and Romanians.
The Romanians live quite similar to the Syrians. Neither they nor the Poles will leave the UK after 6 months.
But then, Boris knows that, but he needs the tourism from the EU. So he can't just tell Poles and Romanians they can't come.
Tourism Euros are more important, and sorely needed in the UK. Just like European buyers for the herring the British catch.
They're so lucky they have us.
Don't worry about the Poles and the Romanians overstaying , I understand that Dominic Cummings as part of his recruitment campaign has hired some British expats that have 1st hand knowledge of how the Thai immigration report a foreigner works
I think the Europeans should be more worried about those UK nationals that will be allowed to claim asylum in any EU country from January 1st 2021 as previously they have been blocked from doing so under EU rules.
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13 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:
Unfortunately, a weekend abroad does not reset the tax Clock to zero.
If your place of residence and work are legally registered, you will pay taxes across the EU (including the UK) on a national basis. There are also double taxation agreements within the EU and also with the UK.
Or if your employer creates 8 dummy holding companies at the end of each 6 monthly period the employee is moved from company 1 to company 2 then company 3 and so on
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3 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:
"If you work in your host country for leifss than six months, you shouldn't be liable for income tax there".
Holla.
So all the guest workers in the UK move back after 6 months?
Just to ask simply:
How is the taxation situation of guest workers who work longer than 6 months in the host country?
A very, very large, super majority stays longer or not?It depends if you go back to your home country for weekend does the clock reset back to zero? I don't know the answer to that question
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7 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:You are Right in your first text block.
The UK paid in 9,770 Million euros.
It is the same if you pay entry to a massage parlor.
But you also get something back.
Galileo, Interpol, Forex, Alumni, economic development, transport development, Social renewal, Environment, energy development,Regional development, State reform, Product-, legal and consumer safety.
And the association of 27 countries with the promise to stay peacefully together and mutual work on win-win situations.
And a lot is also going wrong in the EU, no Question.
Block two.
£15m in benefits sent abroad to foreign Children.
You croak about that?
15 million £ are a fly-<deleted>.
The British Army spends more on its soldiers' boot laces!
Bloch tree
EU workers that are posted to the UK pay Tax and national insurance to their own countries not the UK taxpayer
Ups.
Who told you this bulllllshiiiiiiit?From the Horse mouth so to speak The EU
Income tax
If you work in your host country for less than six months, you shouldn't be liable for income tax there. However, there are no EU-wide rules that set out which country can tax your income during a posting. This may be set out in national laws or tax agreements between EU countries.
Social security cover while abroad
As a posted worker, to continue to be covered by the social security system in your home country, you or your employer have to request a PD A1 form from the social security institution in your home country. As your PD A1 form is valid for only 24 months, if your posting to another EU country lasts longer, you can either
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/work-abroad/posted-workers/index_en.htm
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7 hours ago, Logosone said:
The UK was only a net contributor if you look at money explicity paid to the UK by the EU and viceversa. However, if you look at the full, true, picture you would have to consider such things as 1) EU passporting rights enabled UK and international city services providers to sell financial services which would not have been the case without EU law 2) taxes paid by EU workers who relocated to London 3) tourists who travelled to the UK and spent money 4) Taxes from goods sold in an open market for goods which would not have been sold without the EU legal framework....
You can close your eyes to this reality, and practice the ostrich pose, but this does not change the fact that this was the reality. The UK derived revenue from membership in the EU that is not in the official 'paid by EU' figures which UKIP tell you.
Yes, the UK taxpayer paid child benefits to unemployed Romanian gypsies, but this was a deficiency of the UK system. I think this has been discontinued EU wide now.
I certainly remember paying National Insurance in the UK, many other EU workers paid National Insurance.
As you rightly point out the overall net cost/benefit calculation can be made quite difficult if one looks at the full picture.
Of course there was tourism before the EU, but do you really think London would have become the world's most visited city without the EU visitors? Most of whom came because of the ease of visa free travel? Undoubtedly tourism to the UK will decline now. Some may still visit. Some may even still come to work. But do you really think given the tremendous bureaucratic headache EU workers will have going to the UK to work in the future just AS MANY will choose to do that? Very, very unlikely.
It's not just Honda that is leaving, BMW, Siemens, many many big players will leave the UK. Investment in the UK will continue to go down. How do you think that will affect the UK economy?
Brexit is a losing game for the UK. Why do you want it?
I am not aware of any link between Statista which is a German online portal for statistics, which makes data collected by market and opinion research institutes and data derived from the economic sector and official statistics available in English and UKIP maybe you can provide a link if such a link exists
Which Countries are EU Contributors and Beneficiaries?
https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/
As you can see net contributions to the EU budget by a member state for 2018 The UK paid in 9,770 Million euros more than they received back so that means the UK is and always has been a Net Contributor to the EU budget since day 1
Paying child benefits to children not living in the UK is not a result of any deficiency of the UK benefits system and it is still payable today as a result of an European Court of Justice ruling in 2015
£15m in benefits sent abroad to foreign children
BRITAIN is sending child benefit to nearly 20,000 foreign youngsters living abroad, figures show.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1129175/benefits-sent-abroad-foreign-children-15m
EU workers that are posted to the UK pay Tax and national insurance to their own countries not the UK taxpayer
London has always been a main Tourist point for anyone visiting the UK eu nationals and non eu nationals and as EU nationals can still visit the uk without a visa after January 1st 2021 I am sure it will continue
As for Brexit I was in favour of the common market but since 2000 I have wanted the UK to leave the EU so i wasn't brainwashed by anything on Facebook or social media.
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39 minutes ago, Logosone said:That's not the case, the UK was not a net contributor. If you look at only part of the picture, what the UK actually was paid by the EU you would think so. However, of course that figure leaves out:
1. Financial services business the UK was able to sell because it received passporting rights within the EU
2. tourism and travel that wouldn’t happen without the EU’s free movement policy
3. tax revenue the UK makes from EU immigrants working in the UK (a sum that far outweighs any benefits they receive from the UK government)
4. tax on the profits of free trade within the common market
For example if an international bank sets up an investment banking operation in the UK, rather than in Paris, in the 1980s, would they have done so without the passporting rights in the EU? How much did their employees contribute in taxes?
These things are basically impossible to quantify, but we KNOW it happened, and we know that revenue from the above would push UK receipts beyond UK contributions.
The vast majority of City institutions are foreign owned. Their contribution to the UK economy would not have happened without the EU legal framework. And indeed we are seeing already a mass exodus, with 1.7 trillion GBP in assets leaving the city, 7000 jobs. But that's just the beginning because that's just the deposit taking banks who won't be covered by Equivalency anyway. Once the other financial services providers see the real picture the international players will leave. Just like Siemens, Honda and many others have announced.
Sorry as far as I am concerned the UK was a net contributor to the EU since day 1 trying to data manipulation or add items that aren't added to other countries doesn't cut any ice with me.
A few points that you have forgotten are
EU Posted workers don't pay UK tax or National Insurance their tax and National Insurance is paid to their home country.
Does the UK taxpayer pay Child benefit to children not living in the UK Yes it does
The Caring and sharing face of the EU
Unemployed told to leave Ireland in desperate move to slash welfare costs
Ireland is asking its citizens to leave the country if they can't find a job in a desperate bid to slash welfare costs.
The Irish government has sent letters to approximately 6,000 unemployed people suggesting they should take jobs in other European countries in an effort to reduce unemployment benefits, the Financial Times has reportedSo your figures for the EU immigrants that are working in the UK and paying Uk taxes and insurance don't include the cost savings that their host country is saving by not having to pay them unemployment benefit and other benefits that are payable in their host countries.
tourism and travel took place before freedom of movement and will take place long after both within the EU and outside the EU. In the past I lived and worked in Germany, before the euro, before freedom of movement and I sure people will visit and work in the EU once the UK has left the UK.
As far as Honda is concern yes they are leaving the UK but no they are not moving to the EU they are going to continue their operation from Japan and I suspect in the next 5 years all Japanese companies will shutdown any EU facilities and transfer back to Japan since their is no longer any requirement now that their a EU-Japan trade deal in place
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17 minutes ago, sanemax said:
Which cheese was that and how much did it cost ?
Many different types of cheese English cheddar , red leicester and Danish Blue, I found the Danish Blue rather strong could only manage 3 or 4 pieces of crackers each day , I don't have the prices of the English cheddar or red leicester
The price of Danish Blue was 258Baht for 820 grams
they do have a facebook page if you search pattaya sainbury you will find previous posts from this forum
gouda is 249baht per kilo can't advise if good price or not
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2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:
Domestic or imported?
2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:Domestic or imported?
imported shop name is similar to sainsbury but different spelling
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2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:
Something like wine and cheese here in Thailand,
not nice though.
I have found some excellent cheese in Pattaya and cheaper than the UK, I don't drink wine so have no idea on wine prices or quality
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6 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:
Shops already get produce from UK farms. The price of that stuff is not going to change much after Brexit.
The stuff in shops which is sourced from the EU is going to be more expensive.
And customers will either accept the increase or find a lower cost alternative or just not purchase the item anymore
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14 minutes ago, sandyf said:
Exactly, but it is like seeds on stoney ground.
In the last 30 or so years, UK exporters have enjoyed a level of trade with the EU that would never have come about had it not been for the single market.
Many small exporters will not be able to stand the "friction" that will be introduced and a large proportion may well downsize or close the operation. An unquantifiable EU based contribution to the economy that will disappear.
Myth and Paradox of the Single Market How the trade benefits of EU membership have been mis-sold
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3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:
Thats great but most people get their fruit and veg from shops.
And is that farm selling seedless grapes going to supply the needs of the whole UK?
I am sure there is nothing stopping shops and farms from get their fruit and veg direct from UK farms, I know many supermarkets do regarding potatoes as they label the potatoes with the type of potatoes and from which farm they come from
As to the farm selling seedless grapes you will have to contact them to find out the answer to your question
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10 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:
You seem to be confused as to who actually pays for the tariffs. Its the customer NOT the government.
So things like fruit and veg which we can not grow here are going to be more expensive. The UK government will of course love this because it means they get more revenue from VAT. The EU gets a percentage of all tariffs from goods from outside the EU. Think its 10% but would need to check that.
Now if you are a European and there are two trays of tomatoes in the shop but one is from the UK and one is from Spain you are going to buy the Spanish ones because they are cheaper. The same applies to UK customers who will buy the British tomatoes rather than the Spanish ones.
However if you fancy some grapes as a European then you just buy grapes at the same price they always were.
If you are British then you are going to pay a lot more for grapes because we dont have a domestic option.
So expect a lot of inflation. Coupled with an economy which is shrinking.
I can't comment about Scotland but I know loads of fruit ang veg farms in England where you can pick your own Fruit and many farms where you can buy fresh vegetables
Seedless grapes grown in Britain to be available in shops for first time
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4 minutes ago, Logosone said:Sorry, but that's a lie, the UK was never a 'net contributor'. The UK got far more out of the EU than it ever put in. When you take into account the amount of tax revenue the UK makes from EU immigrants working in the UK (a sum that far outweighs any benefits they receive from the UK government), plus the tax on the profits of free trade within the common market, tourism and travel that wouldn’t have happened without the EU’s free movement policy you begin to understand that the UK received far more than it ever put in.
Of course it is not so easy to quantify the real extent to which the UK benefitted from the EU economically. For example, if a French tourist visits London and spends a thousand pounds, how do we know whether or not they would have done so if they’d not benefitted from free travel which the EU faciliated at the time?
To quantify these things is not easy, much easier to say 'Aaaah but da Brittish, we's paid in dat amount and we waz a net contributtor'.
But you weren't. And if you could have built those gigantic infrastructure projects in Wales et al you wouldn't have applied for EU funds and held your hand, would you?
And yes, the fact that the EU is debating increasing its budget tells you that the British contribution will not be missed, especially when we'll take in exactly the same amount from tariffs on UK products.
Sorry its you that is wrong the UK has always being a net net contributor since day 1
https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/
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6 minutes ago, Logosone said:They did seem surprised that EU law had primacy and certainly to the extent that that was the case. Don't forget there were years of case law that actually established how far this went. It was one thing to read this in principle, but another for British courts to confirm that indeed EU law took precedence in certain areas.
Obviously there was no deception whatsoever, though, because if law professors could not anticipate the extent of primacy of EU law certainly Ted Heath would not have been able to. To explain the finer constitutional law points of EU law vs UK law would have gone right over the British electorate's head anyway. They would never have understood it. So no deception at all.
Why would the EU and Europeans be 'absolutely bricking it' though? Didn't you understand that the tariffs on UK goods would mean that the EU will take in almost exactly the same amount from the British which the British paid in while a member? Except this time there'll be no millions for infrastructure products in Wales to pay, no loss of business to British products which are now more expensive.
The EU is not in a weaker state without Britain. Quite the contrary. I actually hope more countries leave. If the really useless mouths to feed, like Greece, would leave would be even better. Romania and Poland can go too. Door is wide open.
The Millions for infrastructure products in Wales to pay was paid for by the British taxpayer, if you have forgotten the UK has always being a net contributor. As for EU tariffs the EU will pay more to the UK than the UK will pay to the EU
Its strange normal after a divorce most people reduce their spending as they don't require as much money as they did before the divorce Not the EU it wants to increase its spending and the EU is divided into 2 camps the net contributors who feel they are already paying enough and the cohesion countries which want the eu budget increased as they are net beneficiaries and take out more than they ever pay in. Poland seems to be doing very well as part of the net beneficiaries
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10 minutes ago, Logosone said:
At a conservative estimate....taking the 4.3% figure of the Confederation of British Industry...and ignoring the significantly higher tariffs for some sectors...
With a value of British exports into the EU of 289 billion GBP.....
That would mean 12 billion GBP of tariffs.
Conservative estimate.
Almost to the pound the exact contribution of the UK to EU budget.
Hahahahahahahahahaha.....
You have forgotten the UK imports from the EU were £357 billion
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2 hours ago, Logosone said:
In theory.
Back in reality no British government will ever want to upset the EU, given that the British financial sector will depend on continuous inspection and approval by the EU, and continuous renewal of equivalency.
The political reality is that the UK government won't do anything to curtail Romanian and Polish immigration. Indeed has done nothing to curtail it. Quite the contrary, it has opened all its doors to Romanians and Poles, and said 'come in without any need for visa whatsoever'.D
That's what is meant by political reality. You have no 'control'. You could not even control your own currency. The instruments available to the UK government are blunt, antiquated and insufficient for the challenges of today.
And to cap it all the UK runs a system of free handouts which means it has to go to Germany, Japan and the US cap in hand every single year to beg for the money to finance its welfare state and handouts.
The UK is so powerless and without control you and your fellow Brexiteers wouldn't be able to sleep at night if you knew the truth.
No need to worry about Romanian and Polish , i have friends in the Civil Service that have advised me that once the coranavirus is out of the way they are planning to visit Thailand and Australia on a fact finding mission
my understanding is they want to look at the Thai and Australia immigration system for launching something in the UK along the lines of "Dob an overstayer" I think they would use Jaguar cars instead of BMW 5 series as smart cars and they are considering providing extra funding to local councils for the hire of thermal imaging cameras and spy planes and helicopters
Local council used thermal imaging cameras and spy planes a couple of years ago for checking beds in sheds
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4 minutes ago, Logosone said:
Oh don't worry, we will put such tariffs on British products there will be a new surplus.
And the Uk will reply in Kind regarding Tariffs, Hopefully Mercedes-Benz has found a new market for their cars since China car sales are down, Donald may put 25% tariffs on European Cars going to the states
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2 hours ago, Logosone said:
Well you'd have to look at the context of the time, in the 1970s British manufacturing and industry began to fail and decline big time. The main reason the British decided to join was economic. They figured, correctly, that the advantages of a common market would be better for their economy.
That was the main consideration, not law, immigration...
But who knows, it's possible, especially if the East European immigration were highlighted, I don't think Germans loved this idea particularly. Whether it would be enough to lead to a full derailing of the EU membership at the time, well it clearly did with the Brexit referendum, but with a tiny margin. Maybe in the 70s people were not that xenophobic yet.
In any event, as the very serious economic problems of the UK will worsen as Brexit goes on I have no doubt whatsoever that a Labour government will eventually give the British people this choice once again and it is very possible the British will again decide to join Europe.
In the unlikely event that Labour get in to Goverment and after they have nationalise the following broadband, rail,water,electric, postal,service,energy network,private sector contracts,oil and gas companies and the rail network.
I am sure a Labour Goverment would want to join the EU as a net Beneficiaries, I am not sure the EU would want to accept membership from a country that might take out double the amount of funds that Poland currently receives
https://www.statista.com/chart/18794/net-contributors-to-eu-budget/
If Scotland gets its independence and joins before the rest of the UK that would be 2 new members that would be net Beneficiaries, Hopefully the net Contributors have got very deep pockets
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9 minutes ago, Logosone said:
Of course there won't be a status quo, rather the whole point of the negotiation!
But very clearly Barnier will continue to ask for European boats to fish in UK waters. So that will stay the same. Only the percentage of fish quotas will change.
So your much vaunted 'Barnier hints he will compromise on fish access' is a bit of a red herring, isn't it? He's not compromising on access to fish in principle, merely hinting he'd be prepared to look at the quotas. But not on the terms the UK wants, on his own terms.
No its not as the EU fishing countries are demanding status quo and no amendents to status quo , Barnier can look at quotas on his terms but it still needs the UK to agree to those quotas as well as the EU fishing countries
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5 minutes ago, Logosone said:
Yes and Sainsburys funded it with 3.9 million USD, I know, I know, you're never shopping at Sainsbury's AGAIN!
Anyway, what are Bloomberg saying in that article? That Barnier is holding off on granting the UK banks equivalency as to financial rules.
Would you agree that this is a somewhat more important issue to the UK, financial services, than fisheries?
The EU can revoke equivalence unilaterally at any time. So even if equivalence is granted for some services traded out of London, it could be short-lived. For financial services companies this means continuing uncertainty.
I don't think Boris will sacrifice fishing for financial services as he is aware he will be toast
Boris vs corbyn was a easy choice for the UK voters, Boris vs starmer/Nandy not sure how that would play out in an election
Britain tells the EU: we shall not sell out our fishermen
in World News
Posted
Not really you failed to criticize the article you instead decided to make a comment against the poster says it all