vinny41

10 minutes ago, david555 said:

I really believe you would love it.....,  to fly all round ig Europe airspace to reach destinations behind it.....????

Big fisheries card  ,yes….. and Euro regulating & passporting means nothing on E.U. side ?????????????????

It does appear that the EU wants to have your cake and eat it too  regarding fishing, I understand if you leave the EU club, you can't have the same access as a club member, but that applies both ways. The EU have stated the UK must “uphold” existing reciprocal access to fishing grounds or what is known as "Status quo" but they have to understand you can't have you cake and eat it also applies to them, Once we have left the club the rules of access change

10 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

Of course, why would we not want our wonderful British cousins to visit us? I have no problem at all with Rick Stein coming to the EU to learn about cooking.

 

But it seems a bit naive to proclaim you've established firm border controls when you'll continue to allow Poles, Romanians et al to cross your borders and remain in the UK for 6 months.

 

Do you really think Romanians and Poles will leave after 6 months? Have you been to Romania and seen how they live? 

 

I don't see how this is 'control'. You're just letting them in for free again. All the promises about 'control' of borders - just empty rhetoric.

If it is the case that the Romanians and Poles don't leave after 6 months I am sure there will be further updates which may exclude Romanians and Poles from access to the UK without a Visa, The Home office have to wait for stats before going back to the EU, I suspect if the Home Office went to the EU and said of your EU citizens (Logosone) has advised us that Romanians and Poles and dodgy and can't be trusted The EU might want figures to support such a claim

23 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Thanks for the laughs, but I think you'll find that the UK has more serious economic problems to worry about than haddock. 

 

No major EU country is in the serious dire straits that the UK is in now economically, with an economy made up 80% of services which in the past were mostly sold based on EU access and passporting. The fact that the City abhors Brexit and is voting with its feet to move GBP 1.7 trillion of assets and thousands of jobs outside of London, with 40 equivalency decisions about to be made in Europe, a major trade negotiation with the EU about to start and the trade deficit being what it is, the UK is in a very precarious position. How anyone can say 'the UK will be fine' at this point is frankly preposterous.

 

Whatever problems you think the EU has you can gauge from what the banks of the world are buying what they think of the UK and the EU. Twenty per cent of the world's reserve currency is held in Euro, only 4 pr cent in Pound Sterling.

 

I can see why Boris and the Brexiteers would like to deflect attention to fish, I really do. But the reality is that only France, Denmark and Netherlands are seriously fishing in Britain, and only for 35% of the fish in British waters. 

 

As the very capable Scottish German poltician David Macallister put it: "Two-thirds of fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU. If the UK grants us access to territorial waters, to fish, then on the other hand the UK will have access to export fisheries to the single market.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/06/fishing-eu-countries-seek-tough-stance-on-access-to-uk-waters

 

So again, it is the UK that is in a much weaker position, since two thirds of all fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU the UK will be sure to compromise on the fish issue. Unless you want to sell your fish in New Zealand? Probably a plan seriously considered by Brexiteers.

 

But overall the fish issue is of miniscule importance compared to the City's problems in accessing the EU market for services.

 

 

 

 

30 September 2019, the pound sterling represented the fourth largest proportion (by USD equivalent value) of foreign currency reserves

7 minutes ago, Logosone said:

 

"But we'll still allow Romanians, Poles and all EU nationals to enter the UK without a visa for 6 months, hoping they'll leave afterwards". Such wonderful control you've established...

 

 

The EU has agreed to add the UK to the EU’s list of visa-exempt countries (of which there are currently 61). This gives British citizens the right to travel to the EU after the transition period for up to 90 days without a visa within any 180-day period. It would be conditional on the UK granting visa-free travel to EU citizens to the UK. Visas for short business trips and longer visits to the EU will be a matter for negotiation between the UK and the EU.

Brussels warned Royal Navy warships will be used to protect UK waters from EU fishing ships

ROYAL Navy warships will be sent to protect British vessels from European fishermen after Brexit, EU officials have today been warned.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defence/brussels-warned-royal-navy-warships-will-be-used-protect-uk-waters-eu-fishing-ships-2071866

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It does not matter what you, I or even parliament think, at the end of the day it will be this document that takes precedence, particularly Articles 63/64.

https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/unclos_e.pdf

 

Conservation will take priority and migration will be taken into account in the absence of any agreement. It will be co-operation or another Cod War.

Well Macron  is quoted as saying "

Speaking at a fishing and farmers market in Paris today, Macron said: 'It's going to be tense because they are very tough...

'Boris Johnson has a card in his hand and it is fishing and with that he will try to gain access to the market."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8033071/Emmanuel-Macron-casts-doubt-Boris-Johnsons-hopes-striking-Brexit-trade-deal-December.html

8 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I know where it is from and the discussion covers various factors including fish migration.

The only sentence that actually means anything is this one, but then obligations mean very little to some.

"How the UK decides to pursue its general obligations to co-operate with the EU and other neighbouring states will be a matter for negotiations before and after Brexit."

 

Actually I think this one

45.In declaring an Exclusive Economic Zone independent from EU waters, the UK would be able to control the access that foreign vessels have to fishing in UK waters. It will be for the Government of the day to decide whether the principle of equal access should be preserved, and the extent to which foreign vessels should be granted access to fishing in the UK EEZ.

I sure there will be some agreement at the end of the day but it wouldn't be the same access that the EU has and the French want

On 3/3/2020 at 3:09 AM, melvinmelvin said:

 

dunno, but reading the OP

letting the frogs fish in UK waters is within what she says in the OP

 

On 3/3/2020 at 11:05 AM, melvinmelvin said:

 

read the OP carefully,

having frogs and others fishing in UK waters is within what the lass is stating

 

21 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

please, give me a break

I did quote the entire post, I did not edit ANYTHING at all

 

provide a link to backup my interpretation??? what on earth is that???

 

my posts are NOT fake

my posts are NOT false

my posts are what they are

 

Here  are some examples when you claim Liz Truss UK MP and Secretary of State for International Trade

Its very unlikely that a Secretary of State for International Trade would refer to the French as frogs and letting other fish in uk Waters doesn't exist in the post and she hasn't said even though you claim she has , and we all know you can't provide any supporting links to support your claim as none exist therefore your posts are both False and Fake

15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

your taste - enjoy

 

(if I am not mistaken what you link to is a list of main points - not a citation as such)

 

have given up on you

you cant read English politician speak in the context of international organisations

not when it comes to WTO/trade and not when it comes to UK waters and fish

 

maybe reform is dirty, I haven't a clue of where and why that word should be dirty

 

 

 

I think the forum rules here state when you quote someone post you quote their entire post and not selective edit it.

When you post about what any person has said you should provide a link to backup your interpretation so all members can see if you don't do it in the future I will simply call out your posts as fake and false

12 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes, but 90 minutes is a loooooooooong time and looking at the chap his age and having looked up his education

I suspect I have a fairly good idea of what he says in that show

 

your Turkey and Russia bit is a point, by all means,

(this was recently highlighted by this UK trade secretary lass, 5 minutes after UK is out of EU she wants to teach

 the world how they should run WTO - talk about urin artist full of herself)

 

You say UK is too large, I'd say size doesn't matter - attitude matters, UK is PACKED with non pallatable attitude.

Who in their right mind would want the UK superiority complex in EFTA?

 

 

 

Liz Truss didn't say or imply that she wants to teach the world how to run the WTO here is what she said and you should be aware that David Walker from New Zealand is currently working on WTO reforms I know reform is a dirty word in the EU

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/britain-is-back-liz-truss-calls-for-new-rules-at-wto-to-tackle-unfair-trade-practices

On 3/3/2020 at 3:12 PM, sandyf said:

The brexiteers never did comprehend the concept of co-operation.

 

32.Where fish stocks are not exclusively found in UK waters, then, the UK must co-operate on the management of the stocks.50 Prof Churchill explained: “most of the fish stocks found in the waters of the UK are actually shared with our neighbours, be it the EU, Norway, the Faroe Islands or, in some cases, all three”.51 How the UK decides to pursue its general obligations to co-operate with the EU and other neighbouring states will be a matter for negotiations before and after Brexit.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldeucom/78/7806.htm

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Are you trying to say that now brexit has happened the fish must stop migrating and para 35 will take precedence over everything else.

the quote is from the same link that you kindly provided just further down from the inital section that you quoted

12 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

read the OP carefully,

having frogs and others fishing in UK waters is within what the lass is stating

 

20 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

dunno, but reading the OP

letting the frogs fish in UK waters is within what she says in the OP

 

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

have been the text twice, syllable by syllable

it is quite cear that she does not say what you claim;

 

"made it clear they will be no trade off or side deals link to fishing"

 

that semantics cannot be found in the OP

 

the words in the OP are carefully chosen to allow for some frogs while at the same time staying within the text in the OP

 

Here are the exact words quoted in the op regarding fishing

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain will not sell out its fishermen as part of a trade deal with the European Union, nor will it lower its food standards for a trade agreement with the United States, British International Trade Secretary Liz Truss said on Monday.

“We are not going to trade away our fishing in a deal with the EU or any other negotiating partner for that matter,” Truss said. “We are going to get a deal with the EU that does not involve selling out our fishing.”

There nothing in her words that indicated that she is implying in your words "having frogs and others fishing in UK waters is within what the lass is stating

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The brexiteers never did comprehend the concept of co-operation.

 

32.Where fish stocks are not exclusively found in UK waters, then, the UK must co-operate on the management of the stocks.50 Prof Churchill explained: “most of the fish stocks found in the waters of the UK are actually shared with our neighbours, be it the EU, Norway, the Faroe Islands or, in some cases, all three”.51 How the UK decides to pursue its general obligations to co-operate with the EU and other neighbouring states will be a matter for negotiations before and after Brexit.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldeucom/78/7806.htm

Accessing the EEZ

35.Another fundamental change relates to access to fishing in the UK EEZ. Under international law, any decision to allow foreign vessels access to fish in UK waters will be a matter for bilateral negotiation and agreement between the UK and other coastal states. In the words of Prof Churchill:

“There is a distinction between what is said in the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea and what tends to happen in practice. … as far as the Convention is concerned … if in a particular coastal state’s EEZ the coastal state is capable of harvesting the entire allowable catch, it is under no obligation to allow any other fishermen from other states to fish there, so it can take the whole of the allowable catch. Where an obligation to admit other fishers comes in—again, this is on the theory of the convention—that is where the coastal state does not take the whole of the allowable catch and there is a surplus. It must admit other states to the surplus, but again it has a discretion … but only where there is a surplus.”52

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

55% of the total UKs territorial waters belong to Scotland.

Still think an independent Scotland would not be welcomed back into the EU? 

If there is no agreement between the Uk and the EU regarding fishing I suspect an independent Scotland EU membership to the EU would be fast tracked. If there is an agreement between the UK and the EU on fishing Scotland will go through the normal  EU accession process How many years has Turkey been in the EU accession process

“Boris Johnson wants a free trade deal (similar to the one the EU struck with Canada) with extra agreements (like fishing) on the side, governed by separate dispute resolution mechanisms.”

Crucially, the UK is trying to avoid trade-offs, whereby for instance, the EU refuses to offer a tariff and quota-free trade deal unless the UK allow EU fishermen to retain the same levels of access to UK water as they enjoyed prior to Brexit.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1249799/BBC-news-brexit-bbc-katya-adler-boris-johnson-brussels-trade-talks-brussels-michel-barnier

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

what the manure?

 

you must learn to read politicians utterances (what EU wants has NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with this)

 

she can sell some fishing rights to French and Spanish fish companies and still claim she is in line with OP

 

Suggest you re-read the original post as she has made it clear they will be no trade off or side deals link to fishing

2 minutes ago, TheDark said:

I wonder which side has the upper hand on these negotiations? The economy of 65 million consumers or the economy of 450 million consumers.

 

 

I guess if the EU/French don't get access to UK fishing waters they can also sail to Japan and Fish there, EU consumers would have to get use to eating different types of fish

I would negotiate Fishing last, the EU and mainly the French want Fishing to be negotiated 1st and then they can say no to everything else
If Fishing is negotiated last they that puts them in a diffcult position as saying no to everything else may put their fishing access at risk

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

yes,

and some frogs in UK waters does not necessarily mean that you have traded away "your fishing"

 

Yes it does as the EU have already stated they want the same access as they currently have

and the French have already stated if their is no agreement on Fish there is no agreement on everything

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

read the OP carefully,

having frogs and others fishing in UK waters is within what the lass is stating

 

No she isn't she stated 

“We are not going to trade away our fishing in a deal with the EU or any other negotiating partner for that matter,” Truss said. “We are going to get a deal with the EU that does not involve selling out our fishing.”

The EU wants to link fishing rights to part of the main trade agreement

5 minutes ago, bannork said:

The UK exports 75% of its fish. A no deal Brexit will make all those fish more expensive f

Some 666,000 tonnes of fish was farmed and caught in the UK in 2014, of which 499,000 tonnes (75 per cent) were exported, and 66 per cent of those exports went to the EU. The UK also imported 721,000 tonnes of fish, 32 per cent of which came from the EU.

Britain imports big quantities of prawns and tuna from the EU, while its main fish export is mackerel.

If the UK eats more mackerel and less prawns and tuna mackerel will be cheaper

9 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Maybe you didn't understand the 1st time, the UK has a population of 66 million, most of whom do not work, the UK has long ago maxed out its credit card and has among the largest debt mountains any country in the world. It has an ageing population that is used to getting freebies by the state. As are the unemployed. As are the millions of users of the NHS. The UK is addicted to debt. The idea of the UK being a low tax haven is ludicrous. It just won't happen. For the simple reason that the UK is not a teeny tiny toy country that can afford the low tax route, the UK needs its tax revenues to sustain its creaking free hands out edifice which is bursting at the seams. The UK already has one of the worst health services in the western world, imagine if it cut off the tax funding of the NHS. There'd be riots in the streets.

 

Kindly stop espousing full on nonsense ideas like the UK becoming a tax haven. It will never happen.

The EU already has 7 member states that the EU have classed as Low tax Havens, I suspect they don't want the UK to become a Low tax haven as the UK would be outside of EU control and could offer direct competition to these countries

Seven EU countries (Belgium, Cyprus, Hungary, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta and The Netherlands) display traits of a tax haven and facilitate aggressive tax planning;

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20190225IPR28727/tax-crimes-special-committee-calls-for-a-european-financial-police-force

PS UK currently has 33 million people in work or 76.5% of the working population

7 hours ago, Logosone said:

 

Maybe you didn't understand the 1st time, the UK has a population of 66 million, most of whom do not work, the UK has long ago maxed out its credit card and has among the largest debt mountains any country in the world. It has an ageing population that is used to getting freebies by the state. As are the unemployed. As are the millions of users of the NHS. The UK is addicted to debt. The idea of the UK being a low tax haven is ludicrous. It just won't happen. For the simple reason that the UK is not a teeny tiny toy country that can afford the low tax route, the UK needs its tax revenues to sustain its creaking free hands out edifice which is bursting at the seams. The UK already has one of the worst health services in the western world, imagine if it cut off the tax funding of the NHS. There'd be riots in the streets.

 

Kindly stop espousing full on nonsense ideas like the UK becoming a tax haven. It will never happen.

Clearly you didnt read my post correctly