taxexile

, my sarcasm is sometimes very shuttle

indo siam

you are being unnecessarily pedantic.

would you think it right to punish someone for using a forged banknote that they had unknowingly received in change the day before.

my point is that in many cases the visa services were sold as legitimate services purporting to be within the law.they were advertised in the press,articles were written about these services in the press and immigration officers themselves offered the service.they were cheated just as the jewellery scam customers were cheated.

the jewellery scam victims were attracted by greed,the visa scam customers were attracted by the convenience offered.

if anything,the visa victims should be helped more than the jewellery victims.

all (most) thought the services were legal and above board,because they were promoted with an air of authenticity and with the tacit knowledge of the authorities.

we do not inhabit separate universes,but we certainly see our fellow inhabitants in different lights.

fortunately,this situation does not affect me as i have been out of thailand for a while.

i used an agent once last year,(B48 stamps from pedang besar... not on your list) and  happened upon thai visa forum about a month ago just as this whole story was breaking. following advice from a forum member i got a new passport and will be returning to thailand in a few weeks for a long stay on a non-imm. visa.

its a sorry mess,this visa agent thing, and i have been following the story on the forums with great interest.a lot of good and helpful information has been posted.

some of the views that are posted do surprise me, and i suspect that the extreme "kick em out" and "serves em right"

merchants are just stirring up the readers to get the forum boards moving when things go quiet,and on this they are very successful.

hopefully,an amnesty will sort this all out without too much loss of face to either side.

I really doubt that the Thai legal system will care very much that some guys who call themselves bazza and dropout think that it SHOULD Be a felony to lead poor farang astray.  Thailand probably gives a toss about whether farangs are cheated while obtaining illegal services.  Read that again - you guys think people in Thailand should care about non-Thais being cheated while receiving illegal services.  

does that mean that anyone who has used agents, and has malaysian chops, and does NOT have any of the thai chops listed above is "legal" ?

and from and until what dates are the stamps illegal?

You guys give me crap when I bring out experiences

indo siam

why are your posts delivered with such venom and contempt for those who may choose to do things differently to yourself?

they are written in a  despising,sarcastic,scoffing,snide,disapproving manner.

a lot of what you  say actually makes some sense,(once the doomsday hyperbole has been filtered out), but the manner in which you say it is bordering on the offensive.

i find it hard to believe that someone with such an attitude of intolerance could have survived in thailand for so long. i assume you have been here a while.

are your customers (i suppose you would call them clients)treated with such disdain? i doubt it.you are the victorian schoolmaster straight out of dickens,

if 30 day visas are stopped soon, well so what. at the moment they are legal and people are entitled to use them for as long as they are allowed to. why do you look down on them so ?

yet another example of substandard journalism from our english language newspapers.

when will those superannuated hacks actually get out from their air-conditioned offices and do some good old fashioned accurate reporting.

the article being discussed here just adds fuel to the argument about how badly served we are by the english press .

most things of importance are just ignored, or worse,copied off the wires from an international news agency.

the thai papers have some wonderful exposee type stories on a daily basis,often naming police officers and govt. officials who have taken part in shady and not so shady activities, usually on a local level.these make for interesting and insightful reading,there are also plenty of human interest stories, and some excellent editorial pieces.

these help to give a foreign reader a deeper insight into life in thailand. perhaps the english language papers should take translations of these articles,and educate their readers into the ways of the land we live in,and show us what our hosts really think about what goes on here,instead of the same old stuff,day in day out.most foriegners here have a real hunger for news about thai life on a local,man in the street level. not just the impenetrable and confusing world of thai politics or yet another car accident killing a family on the way to a wedding,or yet another guy captured with a bag full of amphetamines.etc.etc.

come on,post and nation,give us something worth reading every morning with our coffees and pathongkos.

justify your exhorbitant price.

Thailand is simply pulling itself in line with what there rest of the world does things, by the book, clearly, transparently

phone the thai consulate in birmingham tomorrow a.m.

0121-643-9481

they will tell you exactly what is needed for your 34 day trip.

if you need a visa,they will send you an application form.

they are helpful,friendly and efficient.

they will get you visa'd up and ready to go by return of post.

p.s. just wondering but do you wear gloves when you type?

syd,

i dont know how long you will be in thailand for,but it would be a pity if after travelling all that way,you only get to see pattaya. thailand has a lot to offer,if you have any strength and money left after a week in pattaya,you should rent a car and explore the eastern provinces of rayong,chantaburi and trat.

they are not too far from pattaya and would make for an interesting 3 or 4 day excursion,hotels are easy to find and not expensive, and the towns and countryside would make for a more realistic picture of the country you have travelled half way around the world to see.

if you are really lucky,you may even find a fun and trustworthy girl in pattaya to go along with you.

hope you have a good trip and that you will post your experiences on this board once you get back to the uk.

parryhandy,

it's not your passport they want,it's any passport.

it's not that the bike shop owner would clone your passport,but the people involved in fraud need access to genuine documents such as passports and credit cards.

by pressurising or paying  bike shop owners,guest house owners etc. to access these retained documents for an hour or so they obtain the details of,or the documents themselves,

and the bike shop,guest house owner will get a nice little present.

there is a big demand for stolen/cloned us/uk/euro passports and credit cards. your passport could be of great use to someone else.a change of photo could be all it takes to put your name on the wanted list in many countries.

a  parryhandy clone could make life very difficult for the real parryhandy

to advocate carelessness with your passport is to encourage

criminality.

if it was harder to get hold of fake passports,then those that use them to travel around the world (hanbali,to name but one) would find life harder.

when those characters find life harder,then my life and your life automatically becomes easier and more importantly,safer.

i'm sure you will now agree that that is why your previous post was nonsense.

mr. parryhandy,yet more nonsense from you.

in these times of suspicion and watchfulness,it would be negligent and careless to leave ones passport for "safe keeping" with the owner of a bike rental shop.

this is exactly how passports and identities are "borrowed" for cloning.

and its those careless,naive and negligent people  who leave their passports at bike shops that make it so easy for those of a criminal intent to further those intentions.

if people refused to leave passports,the shop owners would not be able to do business,if they were unable to rent bikes they would HAVE to find another way of obtaining guarantees,which they would find very quickly.otherwise they would get hungry.they have no right to take possession of a passport.

the ease with which falangs can be parted with their passports is nothing but a joke.

in all passports it is printed that it should not be given to an

unauthorised person,on whose authority does a bike shop owner become authorised to take possession of a passport.

you send long long posts indo,,business a bit slow????

   only joking.

you make a lot of sense and really i cant argue with much of what you say, but, it seems to be laced with some bitterness.

i cant hear your voice,or see your face, so i dont know if it is bitterness or i'm just reading that in. i too live lower sukhumvit and often feel ashamed to be a falang here when i see what goes on, and it has got a lot worse over the past few years.i dont know what the answer is. a lot of the sukhumvit types are big cheese business men,here legitimately.

as for me, i've always worked,never asked for a penny in benefit,i've secured my future,and i'm here(or will be in a month,when my business in the uk is completed) to relax for a year or so. i will be legitimate,and probably,when suitably chilled and a little bored,if the situation is condusive to it,open a business with my wife.

i have great sympathy for those (most of them, anyway) who have been caught up in the visa scam. many were unaware of the illegality of it.and should be slapped on the wrist,not bundled off to spend days in a cell. an amnesty would be a honourable way for the thais to close this.

yes, a lot of those whingeing about this feel sorry that their plans for a cheap life here for evermore have been dashed,and for them,well they will have to adapt to the new situation or leave.

but i will defend any mans right to sit on his arse all day and do nothing if he can afford to.

its been good "arguing" with you

she's a fine girl

gets up in the morning

goes down in the evening

shes a fine girl.

a mighty fine girl.

what exactly do you mean by no visible means of support?

if these 30 day visa extenders are staying on here for, say nine months or a year,as tourists (backpackers)bussing their way around the countries in this region, living on a budget,well whats wrong with that? they pay their way,even if it is only a few dollars a day,and they have enough money for their trip,when the money runs out they usually go home. they may ruffle a few feathers with their hairy armpits and lack of style, but they should be welcomed here,they invariably sing the praises of thailand when they get home and probably do more than anyone to raise the profile of thailand as a good tourist destination.kicking them out will harm thailands profile as they get back and relate their stories of immigration horrors.and they support a lot of small businesses around the country,the money going directly to small enterprises.in my view,the best way to build up an economy.

if they are living here as heavy bar punters,here for the girls and the beer,living their dream on the coast at pattaya or wherever,well they pay their way also,they renew their visas every 30 days or whenever.they also have money from overseas. it then becomes a moral judgement as to whether you approve of that kind of lifestyle or you cross the road when you encounter one in the street.

if thailand wants to improve its image regarding sex tourists,then it should close the bars before throwing people out. the people  will then leave of their own accord.closing the bars will hurt a lot of businesses as well, but bar owners know the risks and must be aware that enterprises like that are always on borrowed time.i dont think the thai economy would  suffer so much.

as for people working here illegally,and border running every 30 days , they are breaking the law,and should be stopped.

but are there really so many of them?

i really cant figure out what exactly the government are actually trying to achieve with all.

amazing thailand.

i think they may have to do a u-turn on this one.

indo siam

your posts seem to be fuelled less by logic,but by a hatred of all things "dodgy",as you put it.some people are quite content to live simply on a small amount.they dont want or need more.

you have taken a risk and after 18 months of hard work and hassle,you have had some success.well done.good luck.

but dont preach to the world that yours is the only way of life and we should all become risk taking business persons.it takes all sorts in this world.

you seem to look down your nose at those who choose an easier way,those who choose to survive by their wits ,or those who perhaps through luck or circumstance do not need to struggle for success in the business world.

you seem to be  full of bile and  anger towards those not doing things your way.there are many ways towards personal fulfilment in life, and maybe coming here with some assets after a few years hard work and winding down,chilling out,retiring or maybe just to have a good time is one way of doing that.

if your business life is too hard for you,if you get angry every time you look out of your office window and see a farang just strolling along taking in the sights,well maybe its time you paid more regard to your blood pressure than to your business.

i cant fault your arguments about these new regulations,the thais are entitled to pass whatever laws they see fit,but your attitude behind them is intolerant and unpleasant.live and let live.

"That which does not kill us shall make us strong."  

watch that blood presure indo.

here is an edited report of that meeting.

   

» September 21 meeting report  

 

Topic: September 21 meeting report, Expats' association of thailand meeting  

MekhongKurt

Administrator

Group: Members

Posts: 41

Joined: July 2003  Posted: Sep. 22 2003,10:49  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't know what in the world happened to the report in my other posting, so here it is:

We are greatly pleased to report that the meeting on September 21st saw a record number of people attending -- a rather astonishing 48! Police Senior Sergeant Major Kanit made a few basic comments regarding visas for Thailand -- then spent the next hour-and-a-half addressing individual questions and concerns.

After the meeting he reminded me of something both he and I forgot to mention during the meeting: all of us would be wise *not* to use a visa service to take our passports out of the country when we are required to exit the Kingdom, as there is a *major* crackdown on such activities. Not many weeks ago nearly a hundred foreigners were arrested in Phuket for using such services, and they were expelled from Thailand *and* declared Persona Non Grata -- meaning they cannot re-enter Thailand, as they aren't welcome.

We also had 8 new members sign up,

Don't forget that next Sunday, September 28th, we will have an address by Attorney Dawn Kitt of the law firm Kitt & Murray

hard to argue with a frank zappa fan,

all the best to you.

rip frank.

tutsiwarrior , i stand by my thread, but the offer of help with your bags is withdrawn

i found parts of your posting offensive and insulting.

if you dont like it here,move.

if you cant afford to live here,move somewhere cheaper.

the fact that the goalposts have moved resulting in some changes to your plans should come as no surprise. this is asia.the thais have lived with these kinds of sudden changes in circumstances for ages.what makes anybody think that we falangs should be treated any different.

we are not so special,and if a few thousand foriegn residents and tourists cannot meet the new criteria,they will just have to leave.its not fair,its a pisser,but there is probably no point complaining and becoming offensive about it.just deal with it as best you can.i sincerely hope that families are not split up and i doubt very much if they will.adversity is the mother of invention and i'm sure ways will be found to adapt to the new

situation.

good luck and dont waste any money on the ky.   :laugh: