yuyiinthesky

10 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

What is the point of your post? Is it to show your ignorance and to  provide an opportunity to ridicule you?  Do you even know what latent TB is?  

A person diagnosed with a latent TB infection is not infectious and cannot spread the infection in the community.

TB is manageable and can be successfully treated.

TB is an infectious disease that can be kept out of the  population, particularly the world's key economies.

TP patients are not closing down hospital systems as Covid19 has done and it has not killed off health professionals as Covid 19 has done.

 

 

What is the point of your post?

Are you indeed claiming that nobody dies from TB?

Or not enough to deserve your attention?

8 hours ago, Tie Dye Samurai said:

what Crazy Alex is trying to gloss over here is this....whether you died explicitly from Covid-19 or the virus just had a hand in some of the deaths...people still died and Covid had a hand in it.

Yeah right, you die from a car accident, or cancer, or whatever, and because your dead body tests positive for virus presence then “Covid had a hand in it”. Makes sense.

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

What is being observed is that;

- Testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 does not always accompany the illness.

- Many patients test negative for SARS Cov-2, but test positive for coronavirus antibodies.

The above indicates that it is the exposure to the virus itself and not Covid19 itself which is causing the illness.

This is utter nonsense. you didn’t understand anything about the PCR and the antibody tests and what they mean, when they can be positive or not, and what they have to do with Covid-19. What a confusion!

Please can somebody of his friends (lockdown fans, our usual scaremongers here) explain him that and make him understand! Please!

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Now you are an expert in pathology.

I have not claimed that, but thanks for acknowledging it. I’m flattered ????

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

Now you are an expert in pathology. You have made the assumption that the virus  enters the body and just sits there twiddling its protein spikes doing nothing.  The body will still respond to the presence of the virus and act to clear it. Because  one does not see the chemical and physiological action as it occurs, does not mean it does not occur. 

A classic example of this is a heart attack. Inflammation of the arteries is a key culprit in  plaque breaking off and a clot ensuing. It often occurs without prior symptoms. According to you, because there were no symptoms there was no heart disease.

 

It is undeniable that we discover the impact of infections long after they first manifest symptoms. One does not need to have symptoms to be ill. HIV illustrates this. Once infected, the infection never goes away. In HIV, the infected can be asymptomatic for years before the immune system fails. The infection is discovered once  the opportunistic infections present.

 

Because you do not see the inflammation of the lungs, the scarring of the tissue does not mean that it does not occur.  It takes time before damage presents itself.  An illustration of this is lung damage in coal and asbestos miner workers. It takes years before the impact of their exposure is realized. real enough for you?

 

With the Covid19  crisis there will be a greater amount of data  in the coming years. However,  healthcare practitioners are already finding the damage. This is illustrated by Multisystem Inflammatory Disorder in children and adolescents. It is troubling and of concern because the  cases are being reported now, weeks after infections would have cleared or manifested themselves. What is being observed is that;

- Testing positive for SARS-CoV-2 does not always accompany the illness.

- Many patients test negative for SARS Cov-2, but test positive for coronavirus antibodies.

The above indicates that it is the exposure to the virus itself and not Covid19 itself which is causing the illness. This is nothing unusual and at its core is typical of an inflammatory response that occurs after an exposure to a foreign substance. In this case it is the response to the virus.  In plain english is is like an allergic reaction.

 

You are of the belief that the hundreds of cases now being reported and identified are  insignificant since they are associated with "asymptomatic'  patients. Well, here are the characteristics of the illness;

- Rash or bilateral non-purulent conjunctivitis or muco-cutaneous inflammation signs (oral, hands or feet).

- Hypotension or shock.

- Features of myocardial dysfunction, pericarditis, valvulitis, or coronary abnormalities (including ECHO findings or elevated Troponin/NT-proBNP),

- Evidence of coagulopathy (by PT, PTT, elevated d-Dimers).

- Acute gastrointestinal problems (diarrhoea, vomiting, or abdominal pain).

- Elevated markers of inflammation such as ESR, C-reactive protein, or procalcitonin. 

 

What's next? telling the patients to walk it off, or that they are imagining these physical changes?

 

You have confused not showing symptoms of an illness  with not incurring injury.

With your logic, kids who have repeated mild concussions without symptoms will be ok.

Well, what we now now is that they are not ok and have brain injuries, the results which will manifest years later.

 

 

 

 

Like most of your posts, another collection of half thought through ideas, but not an answer to the question, and no source.

To remind you, the question was:
 

Quote

It is new to me that an infection with SARS-CoV-2 alone, which are as you certainly know mostly asymptotic, "leaves behind significant physical damage". Did you confuse that with Covid-19, the sickness caused by SARS-CoV-2?

 

If not, please provide a source for this statement, preferably an "undeniable" one 

Try again!

10 hours ago, theonetrueaussie said:

Actually Corona is amazing...It has completely cured all pneumonia and flu...the number of people that have died from these are virtually none lately and it has also cured suicide...yup you heard it no more suicide deaths as they were killed by covid instead....

... and tuberculosis too. A miracle!

I would love to see the covid counters everywhere being accompanied by Pneumonia, influenza, TB, Malaria, dengue etc counters. But that is not happening, as in most, if not all, countries Covid 19 would look like a loser.

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Not sure why it looks like you were replying to me. That wasn't my post. Glitch in the matrix?

Indeed, the quote should have said "geriatrickid". I think this happened due to the constant and annoying jumping up and down of the pages from these ads loading slowly and popping in, pushing the content you looked at away, and then you end up a post below or above the one you think you're looking at. I apologize for not double-checking.

21 hours ago, teatime101 said:

He has 500,000 shares in Monsanto, worth about USD 23 million.

Thanks for confirming. These 500000 were bought 2010, if I remember correctly. Might be more by now.

23 million might be peanuts for Bill Gates, for me it is a very clear conflict of interest when he pushes Monsanto products to Africa and Asia.

On 5/14/2020 at 8:23 AM, steelepulse said:

Are you sure about this.  Watch this and then let us know if you still think that all of Bill's billions aren't buying him the seat to power.

 

 

One more.  Both from same site, but it's hard to say that these are made up facts.

 

 

You might accuse Corbett from being right wing, but I just received this from German friends: One of the old leaders of several left parties (and a former state chief and minister of Germany), Mr. Lafontaine, still active in Germany's left party, said this:

Quote

"If former Microsoft boss Bill Gates "finances large parts of the WHO's activities, especially in the vaccination sector", people would become suspicious. "And they are right to become suspicious when they know that this financier is also involved in the companies that ultimately do the vaccine business."

(machine translated from https://www.welt.de/regionales/rheinland-pfalz-saarland/article207949975/Lafontaine-kritisiert-Lobbyismus-und-Bill-Gates.html )

Since Mr. Lafontaine is well known and established in Germany this was in many Newspapers.

So please allow to criticize Bill Gates without dismissing it right away as conspiracy theory.


 

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They are no where near herd immunity, that takes more than 60% coverage (more for some illnesses) so the story is far from over in Sweden or for that matter anywhere else.

Yes, 50-70% was the number discussed for herd immunity.

However it emerges that it is probably much lower than that, due to some effects not seen or known earlier, such as this one:
 

35 minutes ago, chessman said:

You keep saying this - Please read this https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/

 

If you disagree with anything in that article, then come back and discuss it

A personal opinion of a guy not happy with the way his country's CDC counts the flu deaths. He has a point there, for his country at least, estimations are not exact, obviously - but it's not that the numbers of deaths in general cannot be compared. 1 death = 1 death.

The immune system of 40-60% of the unexposed recognizes and reacts to the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus due to earlier 'common cold' exposure!

No, it is not me who claims that, but it is from the summary of a fresh Journal Pre-proof for Elsevier to appear in "Cell". 

Established virologists such as Prof Drosten have already been heard talking that there seems to be a kind of base immunity against the SARS-CoV-2 Virus, and values such as 25% had been mentioned. 

This fresh (accepted May 7) Journal Pre-proof is about "Targets of T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus in humans with COVID-19 disease and unexposed individuals".

One of the key findings is in the last paragraph of the Summary:

Quote

Importantly, we detected SARS-CoV-2−reactive CD4+ T cells in ~40-60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating ‘common cold’ coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2.

Now that's what I call really good news!

It probably explains why the positive case values go down already very long before the expected herd immunity level of 50-70% is reached, such as in Sweden, where we seem to see the plateau and the reduction already now.

And it seems to explain also why some get infected and so many not, why even the careful models trying to predict the development of the pandemic where not reached.

Source: https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

And no, don't even try to blame this on conspiracy or whatever, just be happy about the good news!

26 minutes ago, nauseus said:

A vaccine is primarily designed to immunise anyone against the virus. That's the whole point.

 

The make up of antigens and antibodies, once known, give initial data necessary for the development of the vaccine. 
 

Obviously you didn't really understand this. Give it up.

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

The undeniable reality is that  infection with SARS Cov-2 leaves behind significant physical damage in many of the infected.

It is new to me that an infection with SARS-CoV-2 alone, which are as you certainly know mostly asymptotic, "leaves behind significant physical damage". Did you confuse that with Covid-19, the sickness caused by SARS-CoV-2?

If not, please provide a source for this statement, preferably an "undeniable" one ????

21 minutes ago, nauseus said:

More rubbish. Vaccines can still be developed from antibodies. Give it up.

Please explain how a vaccine developed from antibodies can possibly work when there is no immunity.

You might want to read up a little how antibodies, immunity, and vaccines based on antibodies work. Or better don't do it, you seem to know already that it's all rubbish.

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

You weren't quoting me, you were quoting yourself. And if you want to name names then have the decent courtesy to spell them correctly. 

Here is what you posted, see post #70, and my post quoting it at #76:
 

Quote

What if herd immunity is not achievable with this novel virus? There is a big herd on this thread that assumes that herd immunity is a given, almost a human right, but this is not known for sure as yet. And even if there is some immunity, it may not be long-lasting. 

And this "assumes that herd immunity is a given," was what I then repeated, after explaining it.

I apologize for the typo in your name, I blame the spellchecker for that. 

12 minutes ago, Sujo said:

All I can see is some wanting to follow the science and some trying to find excuses not to do so.

So what is your excuse to not follow the science and the Swedish model?

1 minute ago, Susco said:

You must be joking

 

London has 15 Million people while Stockholm has 978.00 People.

Oh well, we talk about the density, not about the amount of people living there. London has a very big area.

And last time I was in Stockholm I got the strong impression there would be a few more than "978.00 people" living there ????

4 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Of course they are not accurate without knowing how many have been tested per capita, but they don't give anyone the right to praise Sweden's response, do they. Their neighbour, Norway, are doing far better even if the degree of error is high.

These arguments were made a couple of times in this and in other threads, so I'll only say "time will tell" and refer to the other threads and posts where this was discussed already.

Despite my sympathy with the Swedish model I wish also all the other countries to suffer only the absolute minimum of deaths, be it from Covid-19 or from Influenza or from lockdowns and the economic problems it causes.

10 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

 

Sweden has one of the highest mortality rates in the world. Of course this depends on the number tested, but using today's stats of deaths/confirmed cases (mortality rate):

 

UK:   14.36%

Italy: 14.12%

Sweden: 12.48%

Spain: 10.00%

New York State: 7.83%

USA: 5.96%

 

Thailand: 2.02%

Australia: 1.39%

 

Norway: 0.24%

 

It would seem Sweden has not been as successful as you're suggesting. Their neighbour Norway which has locked down is doing much better.

 

We'll need a lot more time to make a meaningful analysis of how they did. It's too early to start using "stupid" to describe the rest of the world.

 

 

 

As you seem to say, if I understand you correctly, these numbers are misleading, meaningless as long as the factor "confirmed cases" is not determined everywhere using the same metrics, tests, etc.
 

11 minutes ago, chessman said:

This argument doesn’t make sense. What you are saying shows that density is really important...

Sorry, no, the density was not my argument, I simply told Susco that if he talks about the density and Sweden, that in order to have a meaningful comparison the vast empty forests should be taken out of the calculation.

If you want to examine the influence or importance of density, then look at Stockholm and London, compare them, not at the beautiful but empty forests, where not many people live beneath the trolls and elks, not even corona viruses.

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The presence if antibodies does not automatically give immunity.

 

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/4/28/21237922/antibody-test-covid-19-immunit

The detection of antibodies to Covid-19 is not enough to declare a person immune because we don’t yet know how immunity to this virus works.

 

"is not enough to declare a person immune because we don’t yet know how", well, that does not mean that there is no immunity, and that does not even mean that immunity would be not likely, not to be expected. It simply means that the author of that article does not know yet in a scientifically proven way.

Btw, there might even be immunity without antibodies.