Matzzon

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

You, like many Americans have been brainwashed by years of slick marketing that makes you think for profit medical care is the only way.  Look around the World-  the majority of the industrrialsed World  has National healthcare coverage-  only the US has  the type of medical care that forces people into bankruptcy.  It doesn't happen in Europe-Australia-Japan-UK-Canada- or even Mexico.   Wake Up!!

Don´t mix me with americans, I am not american. You are the second one that believes that today. ???? 

Like I said, if a Thai person choose to reside in France then they are not covered. 

1 hour ago, smedly said:

By that very statement you are implying that people who don't do what you do are stupid - like I said - this is your choice how you do things not mine and I am far from stupid

 

up to you how you do things - stop being condescending to others who do things differently - that is their choice 

 

you are now trolling the same points over and over on this thread - we all understand what your choice - please continue to pay your insurance premiums and good luck with that when you are +70 years of age 

I will still pay the same low premium when I reach that age according to my terms and conditions for my insurance.

I am sorry if I have been condescending, but it might be that you do not actually understand what I write. My main point is that if others opinion differs with mine, then they also must be happy with their choice, right? Why then so much complaining?

42 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Unfortunately that is what it looks like. But not out of my reach, but is just is unreasonable. I am actually married to a Thai and have a few kids now almost all grown. So this also ticks me off as immersed as I am here. 

Never said the prices are resonable. That´s a single individuals opinion. I am just out of the breed that considers an insurace a natural choice.

32 minutes ago, smedly said:

yes it is - and it is a lot more than 400k baht

 

you sound to me like a bitter compulsive complainer that has made choices "you" are not happy with - like paying hefty insurance rip off annual payments and never getting anything from it - you made a choice - nobody is saying you made the wrong choice - it was your choice - other people do things differently - self insurance is one of them - provided of course if you have the funds to do it

 

This so called compulsory 400kbaht insurance proposal is simply a waste and a scam if it is implemented, Immigration want people to maintain 400k balance in their accounts 12 months a year - I have no problem with that

Where do you get your ideas about that I would be bitter. I am just stating that you should be smart and buy an insurance the first year you settle down in a country, and not complain later. I have all the coverage I need, and so doas my family and my dogs. That´s what happens when you take care of yourself and the ones you love. Even my cat is insured.

If you fell like they are forcing a totally natural protection that you should already have out of common sense on you, don´t blame me for that.

By the way, I don´t make mistakes. I leave that to the rest of the population.

26 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

It is not the same price- it will go up and if you use the coverage it will go up again and again.   For profit medical insurance is interested in only one thing- profit and how much they can squeeze from you.

If you start pay at a certain age, then you have the same price until their regulation states that they can not cover you no more. Otherwise you chose a bad one.

24 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

You are completely wrong!

 

Every industrialised country in the World has Government sponsored Health - except the USA.  In America when one gets healthcare they are at the mercy of the insurance companies. There is no National Healthcare except when one reaches age 65- It is called medicare and In patient care is free and I might add financed by 1.45% of one's salary deducted and sent to the Government.  It does not cover out patient care and cannot be used overseas.

 

In Austral;ia; UK; Japan: France and even Mexico- there is Government sponsored healthcare provided through a Government scheme in which the patient incurs NO cost except in Japan they pay  1,00 Japanese Yen(about $10.00)  All  these Governments recognize Healthcare as a human right and  no one goes without it in these countries.  Unlike the Us- where millions have to go to court and  ultimately end up in bankruptcy  over the inability to pay outrageous medical bills.

 

In some countries- a person can purchase their own health insurance and not use the Government scheme if they desire and it's cost is equivalent to what private insurance is in the US.   Expensive

 

The For Profit Insurance industry is interested in one thing-profit.  Their  arrangement with the Pharmaceutical industry and For profit hospitals is incestuous=they take care of each other by keeping the costs high.  Tell me how you plan for the future under such conditions

 

As far as purchasing insurance 20-30 years before retiring in Thailand  to keep costs down is a pipe dream. I speak from experience-  My wife and I had an American medical policy from the Us and started with premium of $200 per month.  She developed cancer and when we moved to Thailand received treatment from the Thai Cancer Institute.  We had to pay first and send receipts for reimbursement. After the first year- the premiums doubled, until eventually after 4 years they came in over $1200 per month.  Reimbursements took 30 days by check (They refused direct deposit)  Then check clearance took another 30 days.  This  insurance company -one of the largest in the US did everything possible to delay payments or work with US to  make premiums affordable.  Their goal was to force us out of the system either by cost or death and they succeeded.

 

Everyone needs and wants medical care- but private insurance and the way the medical industry in America operates is NOT what people need. People need a scheme in which the Government provides care and in Thailand- the Social Security scheme works well- 

 

If I am not mistaken Thais pay around 500 Baht per month .  I would recommend a 1,ooo Baht per month fee (12,000 per year) for full coverage- in and outpatient. The applicant would sign up us required and be given a Health card usable at any Thai Government Hospital and any private hospital that would participate.

 

Instead, those of us long stayers in Thailand pay as we go and many use  Government Hospitals.  It is beyond my comprehension that any hospital gets 'stiffed' for the bill- We report our address every 90 days to Immigration .

 

The medical plan under the O-X Visa is ridiculous- The premium for those over 60 is way too high for the coverage afforded and no one needs the out patient care which drives the cost even higher.  These plans are developed solely on the basis of profit and have no purpose except to make money for an elite group of companies and their directors. The methodology of these companies is based upon the US and UK private insurance system which is to provide as little coverage as possible for as much as possible.

 

The Thai Cabinet has already approved  a medical mandate for the O-X and possibly the O-A Visa.  The devil is in the details and how it  will be managed.  There are very few O-X Visas issued and can remember only 1 that has ever posted that they had it.  

 

If the  Police order mandates insurance coverage for the issuance of the O-A and it must only come from  selected Thai Companies- very few of thee Visas will be issued because there will be no demand.  At the very least-  the fair thing would be to grandfather anyone currently on an O-a and apply it to only new applicants/

 

 

A load of bull. You wrote so much so it would take a week to respond to all. I will just take an example. If a Thai citizen settle down as retired in France. Will that one have the health benefits you are saying nobody is without. Answer: No, that person will have to by an insurance.

You are comparing beeing a citizen in a country with living abroad as a non citizen, which is totally misleading. To be eligible for what you are stating you must either be a citizen in the specific country or through unions and agreements be a part of it.

3 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

Thank you. There simply has to be a fair affordable system in place for all. and 10-15k seems to fit perfectly for young and old without gouging and unbelievably ripping people off like US companies are allowed to do.

Unfortunately, that will never happen. 10-15k per year is far to low. I would say you will be happy to find between 25k-50k for ages between 45-70. Unfortunately, that´s how it looks. That´s why I am pressing so hard on the value of having an insurance already the first year here, because it would be the same low price every year disregarding age. ????

13 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

If I was in the US I would be covered one way or the other and those high prices are and should be for just that, the USA. 

Hospital and health care is tons cheaper here more than any western country. Probably because if you tried to sue you would never get anywhere and then would be counter sued for lible. So why wouldn't Thailand come up with a system like I stated for basic coverage as they would still tend to make loads of money. In a sense it is still 3rd world but better said a developing nation in many ways. An operation in the states would cost you just say $50k and here 150kbaht. Just  the facts as they are. So again why wouldn't they implement something like the system I mentioned as they have already suggested taking a pittance of a fee from tourists in order to have all of them covered. Almost sounds like you were an insurance salesman in your past life and finding every way to guard and protect why it should be high cost as a golden business and everyone needs to have it or should not be here..

 

So based on the surgery and care cost as example I gave you from US compared to Thailand, yes, why wouldn't they derive a real non gouging system based on just say 10k or even 15k per year having limitations? Don't try to keep putting Thailand in the upper echelon of health care costs when in most ways the midline hospitals besides the way too high priced ones like BGH or Bumrungrad, etc are very good and 75% cheaper than western ones. So, for me I will be ok for now while in my mid - later 50's, but for many of older folk retiree it is a death march order.

 

By saying Holy Cow! you insulted my religion. Just kidding! it is exactly how you said it! : )

i can relate to what you are stating. No problem, and by the way. Never sold an insurance in my life. Just my standing opinion that moving to another country will create the need of sufficient cover. 

11 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Back home, vacation here and then back to retire in 2005.  I'm reading this thread to gain some knowledge about the requirements for Insurance Retirement Extensions.  Not to listen to lectures on Insurance money management.  I wish you would stop the off topic stuff and discuss the topic which is, "Non-O extension. Next Year Must Have Health Insurance."

Ok, you got it. The requirements as for now, we only know the ones that not even sailed throug for OA visa. They are 400K inpatient and 40K outpatient. Thats the only thing we know yet. Nothing else has been informed of. Looks like pacific cross has the one with best price according to value.

The is no order out for next year must have health insurance for any other visa or any extensions yet. This thread is started out of hear say from one single person talking to one single immigration officer.

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

1968 US Army.  

Wow! Living here since, or did you go back home for a while before settling down?

26 minutes ago, smedly said:

His idea doesn't fail - you are going on about having responsibility - people who decide to have money for emergencies life a health issue are being responsible and you are blowing it out **** ***

Nope, that the wrong way of thinking. It´s just to understand. Your savings is not a security for you paying your hospital bill in Thailand.
 

Let´s go back to the facts. How many in this forum have been living here for long time, and now complaining about the mandatory need for a health insurance. My guess would be, very many. That based on the total chaos the emerges everytime this factor is mentioned in this forum. The first thing a person that settles down in a foreign country look out for, is a cover, security and and in this case an insurance to cover health for the individual and his family. Everything else is starting in the wrong end.

Now that so many already started in the wrong end, and refuse to accept that the society is implementing new rules. Yep, then it´s time to complain. Scary enough this is many of the posters and members here that complain about all the Thais and they are no martue, have alack of common sense and are irresponsible. Here they have been very irrelsponsible themselfs, but still refuse to accept that. Before voicing things like that, it´s always best to clean up ones own doortep first. It might land a shoe that don´t fit. Cheers to more nag and complaining.

Was that a good blowout? Actually its only my opinion which is the way of a forum. To voice ones opinion.

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Why would you think that?  Have you ever been to or lived in Thailand?

Yes, for more than the last 20 years. What about you?

13 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

The average cost of health insurance is $477 per month in the USA. So I can guess that your other figures are also grossly underestimated with regard to health insurance in the UK or AUD.

 

I am 66 and uninsured for the last 14 years.  In essence I have saved at least $80,000 dollars .
 

No its not. Its the US cost for insurance that is grossly overestimated.

Regarding you uninsured time. Congratulations, now you will have to pay double. So, the money you saved will disappear. Luckily you have not been neding helth insurance before, then the money would already have been disappearing.

This is exactly what I am talking about. You try to save on something stupid and taking a risk at the same time, when you at the end, will end up with paying the same anyway. Great you have lost 14 years of insurance, and finally have to pay for all anyway. How does that sound?

17 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

So you're suggesting that anybody planning for retirement in Thailand should at the age of 45-50 & whilst living in their own or another country purchase an approved Thai insurance policy so when it comes time to retirement they will have built up some kind of loyalty discount with the provider?

 

The reality is that your years of purchasing insurance before moving to Thailand will count for nothing if Immigration only accept polices approved by the Ministry of Health (can you really imagine Immigration being able to evaluate whether an insurance policy from <<<insert name of country>>> written in <<< insert language>>> meets the requirements set-out).

 

I agree that having insurance is a necessity when not covered for health care in some other way but don't see why somebody in the UK for example would take it out just so their future Thai premiums will be lower 

 

 

I am sure most insurances with guaranteed international coverage will be accepted. As for example a choice, which would be a very good choice for a person that plans to settle abroad at a later stage in life. That as well as the insurance cover you on trips, holidays and mostly in your home country too if necessary.

2 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

You sure have a lot to say being a newbie. I don't think it is the actual insurance subject that bothers people. It is the high price and unusable health plans (if you want to keep it and not be cancelled), and the huge worry that if you are old you are going to get gouged or just plainly can't fit it into your budget because of how ridiculously expensive it is. So in many cases it is just like the insurance companies acting like a mafia that always have you by the b*lls. If they had an idea to charge every long time staying foreigner 10k or so to be covered then it would in actuality be no big deal, and then everyone is covered. But I just don't see them being that kind or fair to us.

Ok, for start . Yes, I have a lot to say. Newbie? I guess to this forum and in your eyes maybe, but Thailand has known me over 20 years. You can almost say, Holy Cow! That´s much! ???? (Sorry, couldn´t resist).

What country in the world would offer a system like you mention in the text above? The answer: no country. Just because you are stating that the insurance companies are acting like mafia, then we will look at health insurance in major countries regarding the same age, around 65-75 years old.

The average premuim per month for unsubsidized health insurance in USA is about 180 USD. That would be over 2 000 USD per year. 

The average premuim per year for health insurance in UK is about 1 435 GBP.

The average premuim per year for health insurance in Australia is about 2 850 AUD.

After that we should consider this as an average number, which will result in a minumum 170% of the price at the age group we are targeting, 65-75. When I only put on 70%, I am actually very kind. That would be 3400 USD for an example. Here we are talking about roughly 115 000 baht, which also is the facts in Thailand.

I do not see any other countries feeling the need to be kind and fair like you wish to express it. Why in the world would Thailand be that about a thing that everybody automatically should know they need as soon as they set down in a foreign country? Just because you think its the fair and kind way that you want it to be done?

33 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

No I think its those entities that seem to profit from you through fear or when you are at your lowest point tend to earn the term mafia. Big Pharma and the legal profession also come to mind.

Ok, so basically you are saying that you look at everything that you not consider affordable as mafia. I was speaking about the need of insurance for everybody (the great mass and nobody standing outside) that resides in a foreign country without the guaranteed cover of protection.

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Off topic nonsense.  Sure everyone should have insurance OK? 

 

This thread is about Thailand and mandatory health insurance for retirement extension. 

 

Why not open another thread where you can extol the values of the insurance industry? 

Then go to the comment I quoted and refer to nonsense, instead of taking my comment out of context just because it suits you. For some people it´s just necessary to make a comparision so they get up their eyes for the difference between mafia and business, which actually isn´t such a big difference if you just look at the economics and not the methods.

I started by stating my opinion which is that a health insurance for foreigners residing in this country on marriage, business or retirement insurance should have been in effect 20-30 years ago. And yes, my opinion is that it should be mandatory for all, and that it should be grandfathered or exclude the retirement extension.

So, now you can just read, and there was no need to open a new thread.

15 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

the insurance racket is one of the biggest mafias in the world, you sound like a consigliere

So, okey! Now an insurance is mafia too. Let´s just say that everybody that makes money out of something is mafia. If it´s not the person that is complaining that makes the money of course. Then it´s all above board. That´s is called beeing jealous of others success in life and business. There are many reasons for that, and most of the times it has to do with the ones complaining own level of success in life. Keep on complaining, all is good.

It´s well known that Las Vegas in Nevada once was started y the different Mafias in the country. After that the business industry covered up and "took over", wich is the same as making the mafia business legitimate. However, millions and millions of people love that kind of entertainment, and they not complain about loosing even if the house always wins in the long run. That´s how all business is built, and nothing you say can change that. Sure, call everything for mafia and corruption if you want. That doesn´t change the fact that you need both enjoyment in the form of Las Vegas in life as well as a good health cover in form of an insurance.

6 minutes ago, UKresonant said:

Yes most likely right, could not afford to pay for the insurance which might change as they wish not as you wish (if it's the same as the O-X), and then additionally pay for coverage if something happens. "then you can not live in that country" what should be planned for then?

Nah, planning means thta you at an age of 50 years old, know if you are going to live abroad after your working days are over. That means that you cover up already at that age with a health insurance, for your future puposes. That then means you will pay about 30k baht a year for your insurance instead of 70-80k baht a year at the age of 70-75. Spreading your costs though life is always the best option, instead of standing with a bigger bill when you might have a smaller possibility to fund it. If you after that have been chosing an insurance that do not meet up to the in and out patient requirements. Yeah, then you just have been trying to get away as cheap as possible, wich will bite back at a later time in life. It always does. After all that and you can meet the totally acceptable requirements of funding or income, then there is no but. Of course you can not live in the fantasy that you can move to another country and live on a tight budget. You must always have a rather generous buffer, but that´s also something that resides within the area of planning and ordinary common sense. If the possibilities for meeting up to changes in life, then there is no future for anybody in the line of moving out of their home conutry. Then its safer to stay there and have a safer and more secure life.

32 minutes ago, petemoss said:

Neither. I self fund or return to my own country for significant medical care. Works for me.

Ok, but its no insurance for any country, and thats what an insurance is all about. Hence that is what we are talking about. That it works for you, doesn´t mean that its´s going to work for the country you choose to stay in. I am sure you are aware of that you can not take every person on their word or what they personally guarantee.

32 minutes ago, petemoss said:

 

Very rarely happens, if ever.

That can only be a comment if you are blind to the truth, or that you "personally guarantee" that the number they have been given is made up out of fictional facts as so many others here.

22 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Shifting and deflecting is exactly what you're contributing here, with your vague platitudes about the importance of insurance generally, combined with your unwillingness to be pinned down on anything specific.

Just can´t let this one slip, I tried to restrain myself from response, but you do really ask for one. Vague? Is this real and specific enough for you? You need a health insurance in any country you choose to live your future life, and its the county´s policy that goes. In this case a totally normal requirement that everyone should already be equipped with.

22 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

They're as incorrect in claiming this is true as you are in denying they said it, but both of you in any event are talking out of your hats and making it up as you go along.

What have I denied that they have been saying? Please, it´s you making it up as you go along, by coming up with as many wrongs and excuses as possible for not to implement a totally natural thing that people should be thinking about without the governments help to point it out.

Anyway, I just stated the bloody obvious for long enough now. Not going to reply anything more on "a lot of made up at the spur of the moment excuses" for not having a health insurance.

9 minutes ago, fishtank said:

Or too old, or uninsurable, or have previous issues etc.

Plenty of reasons for not being able to get insurance.

Easy for you to gloat Mr perfect.

I am not gloating. I am definately not perfect. Only chosen to not complain about my mistakes in life. Just pointing out the obvious. Make everything easy. Ask yourself. Do you need a health insurance when living in a foreign country, or do you demand that the country should pay for you as a non citizen?

There can be as many reasons as you wish. The fact is that if you do not have an insurance, or can´t afford one because of a to high premium at a too old stage in life. Then you can not consider living in a country that has this as a mandatory clause.

Thailand has come to the conclusion that they pay for too many foreigners that have accidents and get sick here and can´t pay for themselfs. They are tiered over that, and it´s a totally natural reaction. Now they are doing something about the situation, that should have been done many years ago. If your home country had the same social security system and stood in front of the same problem, they would probably act exactly the same way.

3 minutes ago, fishtank said:

So you think that premiums that are 25% of the cover is good value and not a rip off?

We never talked about the premiums compared to the value of the different insurances. Why are you shifting the focus, to maybe give you a slightly better chance to come out of the discussion with your head up? Residing in a foreign country without protection is foolish and irresponsible. That´s a fact.

Regarding the value, and that the premium is 25% of the coverage, is probably in most cases BS talk. That might be if a person is over 70 years old, and have choosen to live old age life without a health insurance for too many years. That was a foolish choice to get away from a necessary thing, that the person now have to pay dealy for in a later stage in life. If you take a general and average person at the age of 45-50, which is the age you at the latest should start plan for your retirement, and security, for the later good years in life. Let´s say 50. Then the premium would be about 7-9% of the total inpatient coverage on a yearly basis. That still means, a person that are forseeing and plan their life ahead is going to get a good value insurance. People that tries to run from all things they need, because they cry averytime a dollar is spent, is going to stand with a fan full of shit.

I just hope there is not to many of that kind out there, because I would like to cling to my trust in the evolution of mankind a little bit longer.

1 hour ago, HampiK said:

With the Inpatient I agree with your comments. But with the outpatient I don't.  As most good polices already include outpatient after treatment. So the 40'000 baht is not too high, but in Thailand mostly not of use compared to the cost what you have to pay additional. It's better to have a very good Inpatient with some extras like aftertreatment cancer, dialysis included! And pay the really small amounts of outpatient by yourself.

 

I can agree with you. My main point is not the inpatient or outpatient coverage. The main point in my dicussion is that its impossible for every sensible human beeing to even considerate moving to another country and then complaining about the need of health insurance.

Better that everybody is happy about all the years they have gotten away with irresponsible behaviout instead of complaining ans wining. Health insurance is a natural choice when residing in a foreign country if your country or work does not cover that part. Anything not in line with any of those three factors are plain stupid.