jackspratt

Everyone make sure you're not caught holding someone else's duty free when you come in to the country. You'll get done for smuggling.

To the contrary - you probably won't.

But Cardholder did, and for the benefit of all of us, he posted his experience.

But if you do get caught, just recognise the fact you broke the law, and have suffered the consequences.

It ain't rocket science.

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However if each of the 100 people each with their own money (yours if you give them in advance) buy 1 carton of ciggies, 4 cans of beer, and leave Cambodia individually, enter Thailand and then depart as they came, meeting up with you later away from the border and distributing their goodies I would not regard that as smuggling.

Correct.

However, if "you" gave them money for the purpose of buying 1 carton each, but to give to you once back in Thailand, the ciggies would not be theirs'.

And if the intention was to evade customs duty, that is smuggling.

Edit: for longstebe - intention is exactly the point.

If the 'importer' had purchased the legal limit of duty free goods, then what he did with them after importation is immaterial. You seem to forget what was the INTENT of the OP when he bought the excess amount of cigarettes. HE bought them, then to avoid paying the excess duty distributed them amongst his family to pass through customs. He himself admits he made the mistake of collecting the cartons together whereupon he was caught with them. His INTENT was always to break the law.

We have an expert on smuggling and now a Mor-Do.

How on earth do you know what was in the mind of Cardholder?

Umm........ from the OP:

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They are VERY strict on what you can take out and each individual has

their bags checked to ensure that the carton of fags, 4 cans of beer, 1

bottle of liiquor etc is not exceeded.

I took the missus, 2 sisters, a friend and two kids. Five adults.

I did what I have done before - bought 20 cans of Angkor (packed 4 per

bag) and 5 cartons of Marlborough lights - also packed in individual

bags. When we left each adult took out their allotted allowance.

Clearly his intent was to evade Thai customs duty - which is breaking the law.

This thread reminds me of the one on TV a few years ago, where a number of guys were legally busted by Thai Excise officers at Swampy, for vastly exceeding their ciggy allowances. They were duly fined the amount prescribed by Thai law, and sent on their way.

Again, the number of aggrieved TVF expats and "legal experts" who were crying "extortion", "rip off" etc etc was a sight to behold.

And BTW - I don't believe Cambodian Immigration and/or Customs have a mandate to enforce Thai customs laws.

.

Perhaps Mr Spratt, you would care to enlighten us as to why you have formed your opinion that Cardholder was guilty of smuggling. Maybe you are or were an incognito customs officer! The briefest of knowledge is required to know what smuggling is. It either is or it isn't, No 2 ways about it.

Post #38 has already answered your question - together with the admissions made in the OP of course.

Believe me or not - I do have more than your average citizen's knowledge about "smuggling".

whats the topic again wife,bike or smuggling,i need a laydown now

The topic is "Did the OP smuggle 5 cartons of cigarettes from Cambodia into Thailand"?

The answer - based on his OP - is clearly Yes.

No it is not!

smug·gle

/ˈsməgəl/

Verb

1. Move (goods) illegally into or out of a country:
2. Convey (someone or something) somewhere secretly and illicitly.

No goods were illegally conveyed into Thailand.! The goods brought in were within each persons duty free quota! Each person (as they always are) was vetted on leaving Cambodia by Cambodian immigration to ensure they had not more than their allowance

Oh well .................... now you have found a dictionary definition of "smuggling", I will defer to your greater knowledge on the subject.

Given that the goods were not (apparently) imported into Thailand with intent to defraud the Thai revenue, perhaps you could try it next time you come into Thailand.

whats the topic again wife,bike or smuggling,i need a laydown now

The topic is "Did the OP smuggle 5 cartons of cigarettes from Cambodia into Thailand"?

The answer - based on his OP - is clearly Yes.

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ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

Ahhh! ...... how prescient.

Did you break the law? i do not think so.

Were you scammed- most definitely

Going legal is sure a possibility, but think about the money involved.

Lawyer would have cost you around 20K-25K, so in the end you are out of pocket about the same, sure on principle it feels better but end result is the same(out of pocket)

About law being broken: You would be guilty if you were stopped at the border with over the allowed amount, however you were stopped way after that and at this point it is not relevant, only because you, wife, sister etc can each bring certain amount and give it to whoever they like, in your case they chose to give it to you-perfectly legal.

jackspratt, on 12 May 2013 - 16:28, said:

I don't agree.

The OP bought the ciggies (which exceed his allowance) ie they were his property.

He then distributed them to others to carry across the border - for the purpose of evading duty.

He then took possession of them again once inside Thailand, without the correct duty having being paid.

Sounds like a classic case of smuggling to me.

Doesn't appear to be any corruption to me - heavy handed perhaps.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

There is no limit to the amount of cigarettes you can buy overseas. There is a limit to how many you can bring in to Thailand. Given that each person didn't go over the prescribed limit, no one broke the law.

I have no desire to debate this further - suffice to say, you are wrong.

In fact, the Customs people would have been within their legal rights to take action against each of the individuals who carried the ciggies over the border ie each of them broke the law.

The duty free allowance will be applied to accompanied personal effects up to Bath 10,000 worth if

i) the items are intended for your own personal or professional uses;

ii) the quantity are reasonable; and

iii) the items are not subject to prohibition or restriction.

However, there are limits on the amount of alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, cigars and smoking tobacco to which you may include in your duty free

personal exemption as follows:

• 200 cigarettes or 250 grams of cigars or smoking tobacco; and
• 1 litre of alcoholic beverages.

Personal effects do not include motor vehicles and motor vehicle parts regardless of the length of time used and owned.

http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/custen/travellers/allowance+and+relief/allowancerelief

the items are intended for your own personal or professional uses;

If for personal use,this can include smoking them, gifting them, or if so inclined, depostiting them where the sun don't shine!

Cardholder committed no criminal offence.

5 Adults passed through the border from Cambodia to Thailand, with their personal allowance of 1 carton of cigarettes each. It matters not who bought them on the Cambodian side.

Is there a lawyer in the house who will take this case on, and take the corrupt customs officials to court?

I don't agree.

The OP bought the ciggies (which exceed his allowance) ie they were his property.

He then distributed them to others to carry across the border - for the purpose of evading duty.

He then took possession of them again once inside Thailand, without the correct duty having being paid.

Sounds like a classic case of smuggling to me.

Doesn't appear to be any corruption to me - heavy handed perhaps.

ps you should have no problems finding "lawyers" on TV - I suggest you take a quick glance in the Thailand News forum. That is infested with them.

Why, you also have problem to catch the dark ones? At least it takes me few minutes to get a fair skinned one, but a dark one I usually just need to blink my eyes. Look around you what your lazy friends got :-)

Nope. But I don't go "hunting" (catch?......... <deleted>!) with a racist and bigoted mindset.

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Not all foreigners like dark skin girls... You are speaking like a Thai and are far from the reality if you check outside the bars...

When a Thai ask me why farangs like dark girls I reply that they do not like dark, they like easy...

And you are speaking like a prejudiced, opinionated farang, and just as far from the reality.

"Dark" girls = easy .................. really?

In the USA I spent a couple of years replacing all plastic containers with glass. Then dumped everything before moving to Thailand two years ago. And here it's very difficult to find glassware except at a high premium price at expensive stores. What an mistake just to save Customs duty and freight! Why doesn't the government reduce import duties on beneficial products and only tax the harmful stuff?

"Beneficial" and "harmful" are terms in the eye of the beholder.

Perhaps you could educate us.

Is there any product coming from China that is not a problem?

Why are you pointing the finger at China for this?

Does Thailand not have a domestic plastics industry?

Very hard to adequately respond to this post, but the first word that sprang into my head was "naive".

You have to do better than an insult mate.

Try answering the three questions for a start.

And pray tell would be wrong with the King appointing senators and judges in order to keep politics out of the appointments.

The potential problem is that, although they are royally appointed, they are selected by committees so, in practice, His Majesty is endorsing a selection made by others. Since the bulk of the committee appointing the senators comes from the judiciary and the senate has a huge part to play in the appointment and selection of the judiciary there is a potential conflict of interest here.

While the judiciary are included, the bulk of the committee does NOT come from the judiciary.

The Senate Selection Committee includes:

1. President of the Constitutional Court

2. Chairperson of the Election Commission

3. President of the Ombudsmen

4. Chairperson of the National Counter Corruption Commission

5. Chairperson of the State Audit Commission

6. A judge of the Supreme Court

7. A judge of the Supreme Administrative Court

I.E. - the appointments are rubber stamped.

As for the "3 questions" - that should be in the hand of the Thai population, via the constitution. But there are plenty of examples from all over the world - or just over the Tasman Sea if you cared to look.

Contrary to what a great many Thais, and seemingly a few naive farangs believe, all wisdom in Thailand does not reside in a single place.

Senators were royally appointed until the 1997 consitution which changed it to a wholly elected Senate. After the 2006 this was changed back to 50/50 under the 2007 constitution.

See that word?

So who do you think appoints them, someone the whole country can trust to put independent people with a brain into the job, right?

If they are all to be elected.

Who nominates the candidates?

What qualifications do they need to be eligible for nomination?

Who gets to vote for them?

Incidentally judges should be appointed by the same party.

Very hard to adequately respond to this post, but the first word that sprang into my head was "naive".

All dictators find that they have taken up their posts legally. Rape democracy by taking a coup speak with the rubber stamp party of Abhisit give the born losers who never win elections the power and they come up with some form of bogus constitution. Bogus because only in a banana republic constitutions are written every decade. And see you can claim that non elected people are democratically and duly appointed.

Hopefully they cut the terms of these dictators in spa to zero days.

Is there an English translation available for this somewhere?

*

What you clearly don't understand, is that becoming a PM does not just mean you get a car-upgrade and 5-star lunching. It means you take responsibility and that means you shoulder the blame when things fail.

Scheme water went off for an hour in my village yesterday.

Bl00dy Yingluck!

Capitalizing such a business in Thailand is a very dangerous thing to do. I hope he is OK but it doesn't sound real good.

At every step, whether it be being involved with a woman, investing in a business or property, and often the first combined with one of the others, a farang's first and ongoing quest must be to assure that he isn't worth more dead than alive.

I have no idea what the State Department can do on Thailand's turf. The State Department isn't exactly Seal Team 6.

the first intelligent thing i heard in a long time.... a farang's first and ongoing quest must be to assure that he isn't worth more dead than alive.

You really do need to listen out a bit more then.

While they are the meat and veg of many of TV's uninformed/ignorant, such old canards bear little resemblance to reality.

I like it when the army issues an unveiled warning. Go 'coup', time to rid Thailand of this mess and try to get some real law and order back into play. Reds threatening and demands?

Yea, hooray for another airport blockade and tanks rolling through the streets. Hooray for democracy thai style

Simple enough to avoid a coup. Take out the issue from Dubai with extreme prejudice.

Wow - that's an easy solution Rambo. Then all the ignorant NE Kwhai would forget the past 10 years, and revert back to a state of ignorance and servility.

For those who haven't cottoned on yet, the genie is out of the bottle, and ain't going back.

While Thaksin's natural demise (either politically, legally or medically) would certainly help settle the situation down a bit, his assassination (which you are advocating) would cause no end of problems in the short-medium term.

As an (I presume) Australian, you ought to hang your head in shame - both for your suggestion, and for watching too many cliched movies. .

the simple solution to all of this would be a ruling by the CC that as with a referendum - a two thirds majority vote is required in the house to pass charter and constitution changes ............

Is that what the Constitution requires?

This American guy is doing everything wrong in Thailand and will likely continue to do so.. Why did he buy a house with a Thai Gf ,pray tell? I bet she put in not one satang.

there are two kinds of women in Thailand

1. those who have nothing to do with farangs because they have a life to live.

2.those that have no life anymore (useless Thai husbands) so they hang around farangs for the easy money and Chanote Reds.

........always. Ive seen it so many times here.

So all the years you have been here you have only met two types of women:

1. The ones that dont want anything to do with you

2. the ones that only want money from you.

Feel sorry for you.

I don't.

What I like is how at 1:02 the Muslim woman has her head covered and she's wearing a skirt (maybe shorts) clearly above the knee.

In the version I watched, those "shorts" go all the way down to her ankles.

There was a period after the coup when the courts, finally freed from the intimidation of the Thaksin regime, actually showed some independence. Now, with undoubtably the urging of Mr. Dubai, they are threatening the court. Thaksin continues to be the great cancer for this country.

Do you have one shred of proof or evidence about this? In any case, anyone can say anything about the courts, right....it's a democracy, right? Thaksin haters: broken record, broken record, broken record....but never a spit of truth.

I thought at the time this showed a fair bit independence:

Supreme Court sentences to six-months in jail lawyer in Pastry Gate

BANGKOK:

-- The Supreme Court sentenced to six months in jail a legal team of

ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra over what is called "the Pastry

Gate," in which a supreme court official was given a pastry box filled

with Bt2 million in cash.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/196627-supreme-court-sentences-to-six-months-in-jail-lawyer-in-pastry-gate/

What an opening for some of TV's finest anti-intellectual minds - a thread that combines the opportunity to agree with the message, but attack the messenger.