El Matador

People here are now inventing an imaginary ATM income tax. Calm down a bit. The lack of details is frustrating but it is far from that at the moment.

My understanding is they will simply delete the line "Foreign income is not taxed if remitted the next year" meaning any foreign income earned during the year will be taxed. And there will be tax credits according to the tax treaty. Many people seem to extrapolate it would mean a tax on remittance. I can't name any country taxing incoming transaction for income tax purpose. I know Thai do their own way but you can't logistically make an income tax with various brackets on all incoming transactions. The simple common practise is to make an annual declaration with all income earned during the year. Before, you had to include foreign income IF you were stupid enough to remit it the same year. Now, you will have to include foreign income WHATEVER you do.

Let's see how it goes. I am wondering how Thailand will look like in 5 years with the massive influx of tourists coming from China and India which are absolutely massive markets. I also start to be optimistic some Western countries might get a 90 days visa exemption in the same package.

I am still wondering if the journalists missundertood the taxation idea or if the new Minister of Economy is extremely incompetent. Only taxing the money coming into Thailand would be a good incentive to leave as much money as possible outside Thailand and would create something worse than doing nothing. But taxing all the income worldwide wherever it is would make more sense to close the loophole. The money could enter Thailand as soon it is earned because it would be taxed anyway.

It would be extrememly dumb to tax only when the money is remitted to Thailand as it would create a great incentive to let the money outside of the country. Countries normally tax all the income wherever it is and do deductions if there is a tax treaty. You would have to add all your ATM withdrawals of the year to calculate your taxes otherwise. That would be insane for tax officers too. I think they didn't care till now to check remittances from outside (and never checked if the money was earned the year before or not) which allowed that loophole for years.

To give a bit of perspective. Indonesia and Vietnam tax everyone on their worldwide income. Malaysia only taxes local income. And Philippines only taxes local income IF YOU ARE FOREIGNER. But if you get a Filipino passport you will get taxed worldwide. Seems Thai nationals will be taxed worldwide wherever their income comes from without any possible loophole as they are the main target according to the articles. Still have to see the details if foreigners will be taxed exactly the same on their worldwide income. Although I doubt it will happen, a tax system like in the Philippines could be an option if they want to keep stable their base of expats. That would be a positive discrimination for once. Tax treaties only offer a protection to avoid to pay twice a tax on the same income but can't avoid bureaucracy and potential increased taxes if the treaty is not that great. Some of them were written 30 years ago in a very different context. If they introduce someday a 90 days visa exemption (as some are thinking), you could do your 2 visa exemptions in a year and call it a day. Hassle free, and without all the bureaucratic nightmare, that would be an attractive alternative.

Some people were using it to be tax resident in Thailand to avoid foreign income tax and send the money the next year to Thailand to avoid Thai taxes. Now it will be impossible to do it. Double tax treaties only help if an income is already taxed in the foreign country.

I think retirees should read carefully their tax treaty because it can change a lot depending on the country. Some will focus more on dividend income. Others on rent income or pension income to avoid double taxation. I guess US retirees are safe because they have to pay taxes wherever they go. The new law will focus mainly on offshore activities made by Thai national who could enjoy tax free business by transfering the money to Thailand the following year. But it could be possible that retirees, as most of them spend more than 6 months in Thailand, may have to do a proper Thai tax declaration for their worldwide income (as most countries do) with deduction for exempted income which has already been taxed according to the tax treaty. Have to see all the details, but if there is no proper specification in the tax treaty, an income which has not been taxed yet could now be taxed in Thailand, or you could also pay the difference if the tax in Thailand is higher in some cases. It might be a mess if they go this way. Just speculation though.

Not too bad if you consider the high requirements. Basically 300 millionaires + 2000 remote workers + 1500 wealthy pensioners (who would have had the other visa otherwise). Very far from what they expected obviously. But I thought it would be worse. And the new Thai Elite visa might bring a few extra people in that visa category.

Wow. They released that just after the end of old school Thai Elite visas. Tax residency in Thailand is becoming absolutely unattractive now. Massive blow. Have to see the details though but the new Thai Elite visa will be even less attractive in every case.

I sometimes wonder how Thai embassies work. You send all the papers online to get a simple evisa at the Paris embassy and it takes them weeks to proceed it. I remember precovid the tourism visa was very easy in Saigon. But now you need to book an appointment in advance. Don't know how the processing is now but I guess it is still easy if you have the appointment. Thai embassies in neighbor countries seem way more efficient while dealing with real papers. Thanks for the report.

What worries me is time is against you. Inflation will probably be higher than your pension rise as South Asian economies are catching up with China and the rest of the world. 40k for a familly is really not much and I can't imagine in 2030. I would work and save for as long as your health allows you to do it while keeping your Australian healthcare. The family visa should be ok for regular visits and I don't see it becoming very expensive to maintain in the future as the spirit of those visas in any country is to make family life easier (retirement visas on the other hand will be harder without a doubt). What will be key is how you reinvest the money from your house. Having 5/6% on that money without touching the capital would add up a lot to your pension and could pay for some insurance while giving you some leverage against inflation. You can sell and rent a minimal accomodation while you still work. By doing that, you can save extra money while preparing a good end of life plan.

Lots of unhelpful posts in this thread. I guess the ED visa is still probably the best option. But you must look for one of the reputable schools and be serious with the lessons as they might check your Thai skills. There is also a Smart Visa advertised in this Forum : No idea how good and legit it is but this is a possibility if you have some online income. I would like to have some feedback too. There are also some companies which employ you if you pay a part of your income : https://iglu.net/relocate-to-thailand/ It may have a path to permanent residency too which could be nice. The marriage visa is obviously the simplest option. But I guess you don't want to gamble at the moment.

The superiority extension visa was a kind of devaluation by offering a more simple visa. Now they want again to force you to buy perks you may not need besides the massive inflation. It is also interesting to note the LTR visas (which give something similar to Thai Elite visas) went form 100K bahts to 50K bahts to boost them (while keeping totally unrealistic requirements obviously) because almost nobody applied for them. I would keep a eye on those LTR visas when they realize people who would like to work remotely for Apple in Thailand are quite rare. That being said, the 900k visa might still interest Chinese people who need a "no question asked" visa. On the other hand, the few retired people who want a hassle free visa will probably be near zero even if the required deposit goes up. The price structure is also too stupid to upgrade for a longer visa if you are in your 40's. It could make sense to buy 20 years before but not anymore.

I am making the maths for alternatives in SEA in other countries if you are under 50. The Philippines offer an investor visa at around 2 600 000 bahts in stocks ($75000) for an indefinite period of time. No reentry/exit permit, no 90 days report and they have territorial taxes. Pretty attractive option if you like the country and have an offshore business.

What an increase. What bothers the most is the new marketing team is doubling down on extra perks which is something nobody asked. Basically the basic 20 years superiority extension visa (costing 1 million) with very minimal perks is dead. You now have to buy perks you may not need to get a long term visa. They are transforming the visa into a basket of luxury services rich people could buy separately. They maybe thought people bought those visas for extra perks and don't seem to think the recent success is mainly due to geopolitical events. I guess the only market which could find some interest is the Chinese one where some people buy things to get a status. But is a big gamble actually. Let's not forget the 5millions one despite being a joke is not the main visa as it limited to 100 people (to create fake privilege). The new 900k entry level visa will decide the fate of the new marketing team. It would have been wise to increase it by 100k each year to reflect inflation and to test the market before making a risky reset.

I am wondering if paying for the VIP line at airports is not a good investment when you start to get a decent amount of visa exemptions and visas on your passport. The bad stories I red about METV not being honored start to make that option attractive as I guess they won't bother you if you are in the fast track line.

As I said, people who are really interested will apply before the 15th of September. People had time to think about things since the Ukranian war and Covid for months. This is why there has been a surge of Russians and Chinese people. Geopolitical events have been the best marketing for Thai elite, but this is not something recurrent and predictable. With new prices, people will start thinking if not better going for an investment visa (10 millions of bahts but the investment is still yours) or going to another country such as Malaysia which is very tax friendly. It could make perfect sense to pay a fee of 600k/1M you won't recover and invest your money outside of the country. But with future prices, some people will think if it is not better buying a 10 millions condo, or simply buy a residency somewhere else if you are under 50. Unless they are billionaires, people with money still do the maths. The new Thai Elite visa will be really niche.

I guess there will be a rush till the 15th of September. And after that, the program will be almost dead. People who really want it will have it before the 15th of September. Unless another COVID or war comes into play, they will have a hell of a time to market their new visa to new potential applicants.

Saw a tiktok video form a Chinese influencer about the Thai Elite visa : Seems all about lifestyle and how good you look in others eyes in a typical Asian way. They might try to market the new TE visas towards those people. The more rational Western way about lenght of visa/Price might be outdated.

Damn I was going to save 1 million for the 20 years visa next year. But I guess I will need to change my plan now. I have a special visa in Vietnam to stay long time as plan B but I was keen to make Thailand as my main base. I guess we are at the beginning of a new Chinese economic dependency era for Thailand and there is not much anyone can do. Chinese tourists don't seem very popular in Thailand. But Thailand may follow the path of Cambodia. Money talks. COVID + stupid Ukraine war have been great to promote this visa towards Chinese and Russian citizens. Let's face it, it will never be the same for us in the future. I wouldn't be surpised if Retirement visa also starts to become much more restrictive soon. I am making maths. The entry visa at 900k would cost around $5000 a year. That hurts a bit ; it is a territory where it is harder to get the money back with the savings you make by living cheaper in Thailand. I guess the 20 years will be at least 1.5M (if they make a 50% rise as for the 5 years), maybe even more if they stop the superior extension and go for the ones with perks. I red many times the perfs were costing them too much. Maybe they will keep some simple visas with little perks but who knows.