RR2020

Still not being answered by the IATA or any of the "vaccine passport" promoters is the simple fact.

VACCINATED PEOPLE CAN CARRY AND SPREAD THE VIRUS !!!!!!!!

So, how the devil do you let these people in without quarantine...........you simply cannot unless you want massive super spreading of Covid in your country.

56 minutes ago, 10baht said:

What you say about the phase 3 results released last month, is what I have seen. But they are still investigating the transmissibility of the virus by those who had a J&J  vaccination. I think the verdict is still out about the workability of a Vaccine Passport. So many questions, just one is if a country does not approve a particular vaccine for its use, how can that country accept a Vaccine Passport which is for that unapproved vaccine.

 

The other thing that needs to be said........

All efficacy results are based on CURRENT wearing of masks and social distancing and bars and restaurants etc.. being CLOSED.

So J&J 72% is in fact "in lockdown"........................  if everyone stopped wearing masks, and stopped social distancing, and all started going out again.........then that 72% might fall to...........50% ? 40% ?

Dont ever forget all current efficacy figures are based on LOCKDOWN environment, not normal life.

19 minutes ago, 10baht said:

You are not correct. J&J's supposedly does stop the spreading of the virus.

So the J&J vaccine has a 100% efficacy then ?

Sorry :

In phase 3 results released last month, J&J's vaccine was 72% effective in the U.S. and 66% effective overall at preventing moderate-to-severe COVID-19. The vaccine also offered “complete protection” against COVID-related hospitalization and death at day 28.

That means of 100% of people who got the jab, only 72% did not get infected with Covid.

So 28% of the people who got the J&J jab in the USA went on to catch Covid-19.

Really.............people need to understand what a vaccine is and how it works.

So what a vaccine passport would mean is those 28% of people who had the J&J jab and got a vaccine passport would be free to catch and spread Covid-19 as no quarantine needed ???????????  

Thats why Vaccine Passports do not work.  Its all talk........its designed to scare you into getting the vaccine else "you might never travel again".........hahahaha

3 hours ago, hioctane said:

Vaccine passports don’t prevent anything. It is just proof that you have been vaccinated.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that vaccinated people can spread the virus. It is still being studied. Until there is definitive proof, it is suggested that they assume they can.

There is a percentage of vaccinated people getting infected and developing symptoms.............  this is why none of the vaccines are 100%.

Of course they can still spread it.....they are infected.  The vaccine protects them, does not stop them carrying and spreading it.

2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Since no vaccine is 100% effective, then yes there is still a chance that for that very small percentage of vaccinated people in whom the vaccine is not effective, they could still transmit it.

 

However actual, real world data from both Israel and the UK, gathered from literally millions of people who have been vaccinated there, shows that even just one dose of the vaccine substantially reduces the risk of transmission.

 

In the UK, the data shows that for those vaccinated:

 

 

The figures from Israel (again involving millions of vaccinees) were very, very similar.

 

Furthermore:

 

 

After you get the CoVid-19 vaccine

 

It's true that earlier (and simply because the data had not been collected and/or analysed) it wasn't possible to say whether being vaccinated stopped you from being able to spread the disease.

 

However that's no longer the case - the real world data is now in and it shows that vaccines do indeed massively reduce rates of transmission.

Reducing is not eradicating.

If everyone is subject to PCR test and 14 days quarantine then there is zero chance of Covid coming in.

With around 30% of vaccinated people able to carry and transmit the virus, allowing vaccinated people in allows in lots of infection.

Quite simply..........everyone should continue to have PCR test before flight, on arrival and during quarantine.  Vaccinated or not. 

Else......what is the point.  If even  just 1% of vaccinated people can carry and spread the virus.........with 5 million visitors that 1% is 50,000 people in Thailand with Covid spreading it to 10 people then makes 500,000 infections.............

Even if only 0.1% of vaccinated people can carry and spread the virus............ with 5 million visitors that 0.1% is 5,000 people in Thailand with Covid spreading it to 10 people then makes 50,000 cases.

It would be complete and utter madness to allow vaccinated people to travel without PCR testing and quarantine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ONLY WHEN EVERYONE IS VACCINATED can things return to normal........until then PCR testing and quarantine is a must.

.

46 minutes ago, bermondburi said:

True, but latest studies are showing that the vaccinated reduce transmission by around two thirds. I think common sense will prevail as more and more places open successfully. 

What it means therefore is one third of all vaccinated people can and will carry the virus and infect others with it.

So why is this acceptable ?????????

All people have to quarantine...........or nobody quarantines.................simple choice really.

End of the day............there is a lot of countries all DESPERATE for tourists.

Whichever country opens up fully, without restrictions, will get the tourists.

Thailand may try to enforce restrictions first.........but if Vietnam, Indonesia etc....open up without.......they will get all the tourists and Thailand will suffer.

So it will become a race to open up, and all restrictions will be dropped before too long..........just watch and wait.

2 hours ago, polpott said:

It also confirms that it is very effective at preventing transmission. Near 90% which is high for any vaccine. High enough to provide "herd immunity" with a successful mass vaccination program.

So now your saying its fine if vaccinated people with Covid come in with no quarantine and infect millions of Thais with Covid ??????

Even a 0.000001% chance of a vaccinated foreigner infecting a Thai who then is a super spreader.................. is too high.

NO NO NO.

There should be no vaccine passport at all............vaccinated or not must be treated the same.

18 minutes ago, polpott said:

https://www.wired.com/story/we-still-dont-know-how-well-covid-vaccines-stop-transmission/

 

"a leaked manuscript first reported by Israeli news site Ynet before being covered by MIT Technology Review, Bloomberg, The Financial Times, and Vox, found that two doses of Pfizer-BioNTech’s shot drove an 89.4 percent drop in infections—both symptomatic and asymptomatic—among vaccinated people in Israel."

 

"The second report, a preprint posted on The Lancet Monday, blew that glimmer of good news into a bigger flame. It described a Public Health England study of health care workers in the United Kingdom who’d received the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, and who were tested every 14 days for Covid-19. The study found that in addition to making people less likely to get sick from the coronavirus—no surprise there—the vaccine sliced the risk of the recipient getting infected, period. By how much? Vaccinated health care workers were 72 percent less likely at 21 days after the first dose, and 86 percent 7 days after the second dose."

 

 

Yes.......your article clearly confirms.......

Vaccinated people can get and carry and spread the virus.

When they say 100% cannot carry and spread the virus, then ok.

Until then..........ANY VACCINATED person MAY BE CARRYING IT AND SPREADING IT.

Which is why............vaccine passports will not work.

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

This is my "layman's" take, but people seem to be foaming at the mouth to push these vaccine passports, so just wondering what their justification(s) is, I mean other than cash.

 

 

 

 

 

Cash, cash, profits, money.................cash, cash, cash...............

The people foaming at the mouth are the ones who want the cash again............they are looking for any excuse to get their tills ringing again and the money coming in....................

Vaccine passports will not work for many many reasons. 

Just now, polpott said:

Early results are suggesting that its very effective at preventing transmission.

No it does not.

Last year as Spring came and into Summer the virus died down...............very normal............people getting sunshine and Vitamin D.........lots of UV rays..............virus died off last summer -  WITH NO VACCINES.

Any data at the moment is due to LOCKDOWN in effect..............

There is absolutely NO DATA to suggest vaccination prevents or reduces transmission.  That will not be known until perhaps 2022 or 2023.

Vaccines do not stop you getting and carrying any virus.

They merely stop you, the vaccinated person, from getting sick from the virus.

All vaccinated people can carry and spread the virus.................end of story. 

And here is the reason vaccine passports will not work.

Covid vaccines cut risk of serious illness by 80% in over-80s - BBC News

The vaccine cuts the risk of serious disease...............IT DOES NOT STOP YOU CARRYING AND SPREADING THE VIRUS.

So if any country says vaccinated people can enter with no quarantine they are in effect condemning their own people to get the virus from vaccinated tourists...............

Just now, polpott said:

So its OK for the young to kill the old due to their lack of social responsibility? In your world maybe, not in mine.

I think you are mistaken.  A virus (of which there are so many in circulation) is the killer.  If you dont want to catch it,...........then stay home, never go out.......you will be fine.

Why do the young have to be locked up to protect the old ?  The old, if they want protection, should protect themselves and stay away from danger.

Do we block access to the sea to everyone to stop people who cannot swim from drowning ?  Or do we advise them not to go near the water if they cannot swim ?

Just now, polpott said:

From your link:

 

"Measles is a terrific vaccine. If you get two doses, it's predicted to protect 99.99 percent of people for life.

That case in New York was so unusual that it's come to everyone's attention. On rare occasions, the virus trumps an individual's protection."

 

"If you want to eliminate the infection entirely from a community, a very high proportion of people have to be immunized.

AROUND THE NATION

Extra Vaccination Push Underway In Ohio As Mumps Outbreak Spreads

If children are left unvaccinated, measles will find them and make them sick. It's one of the most contagious diseases we have."

 

A high uptake of the vaccine is the only solution to Covid.

Which is why they are trying to force everyone to have the vaccine by trying to deny your basic right to travel, to meet friends and family, to not wear a mask etc....

Covid kills sick people, it kills obese people, it kills old people............they are all high risk of dying anyway.  Covid does not kill young and healthy people in any number - and of those supposedly young and healthy people who do die there is no autopsy to find if there was any underlying disease.  They dont want to know.........thats all part of the "story" that "everyone is at risk".

How many "healthy" young people have died of Covid in Thailand ?  How many healthy young people have had Covid and its nothing more than the flu or a cold or in fact, nothing, for them ?

2 minutes ago, madmen said:

They ar going to trial it with GPS tracking. If it blows up they go into a long lock down. They have no choice, missing this high season is not an option 

GPS tracking does NOT work.

I have, being a very naughty person, got around this in places (not in Thailand of course)

Quite simply.

Have 2 mobile phones...........2 sim cards.

Register the Tracking App on the spare mobile with a Sim card you do not intend to use and leave it in your room/house/apartment.

Then use your other normal phone and normal sim card to go out and about.

Great for when you are forced to do self-isolation in certain countries- all of their tracking relies solely on the mobile network signal, and when you leave that "tracked" phone at home.......they dont know you are out and about..........

1 minute ago, Xaos said:

Whole science around covid was reinvented. It always used to be u vaccinated u not get sick so u don't spread it. Now it's u vaccinated u still can get sick and spread it lol.  

 

It was never claimed vaccinated do not spread the disease.........that was a incorrect assumption of many on how vaccines work.

Take a read......

Why Mumps And Measles Can Spread Even When We're Vaccinated : Shots - Health News : NPR

.

There remains ZERO confirmation that vaccination stops the spread.  It prevents the person from getting serious disease, but there is no confirmed proof it stops that person from passing the virus on to someone else.

So Thailand is going to open and lets lots of vaccinated virus carriers in with no quarantine to mingle freely with unvaccinated Thai people ????????

That would be absurd.   Vaccination does not stop spread it only stops the person getting seriously ill.  

The great unknown: do Covid vaccines stop you spreading the virus? | Australia news | The Guardian

So those trying to say vaccinated people should be allowed to travel freely are just plain mad.  The vaccine was developed to stop serious disease and death.........it was never designed to stop the spread.  

The world still has TB, still has Measles, still has many diseases for which there is a vaccine.   The vaccine DOES NOT STOP the disease spreading, it stops the disease from having serious effects on the person vaccinated.