Morch

Sickening. Some of his claims are quite out there, can see the interviewer struggling to remain professional. He said Hamas won't hurt children hostages, because Islamic law protects them. Guess the Hamas men carrying out the 7/10 attack skipped that class. Also, the same fabled child protection Islamic law doesn't seem to compel Hamas to protect Gazan kids, say by offering them shelter (or not starting a war in which many of the will die). The denialism, the 'we-don't-know' - probably missed the clip of the poor guy getting chopped with a hoe. And finally - justifying kidnapping of civilians. Guy is totally out of order.

No. There is ample proof for what Hamas did. This was discussed numerous times on recent topics alone. From a legal point of view, I don't think there are many issues there. All the more so with Hamas aired footage of things done. Israel's supposed transgressions are more complicated to demonstrate, even if you and others get excited by certain catch-phrases.

Yeah, you only post links, not so much into discussing them - probably be you cannot.

I'm not even going to bother asking you for a link. Euro-Med is Falk's toy. As such, it is quite expected that it will do it's best to paint Israel in the worst way possible, while mostly ignoring any wrong committed by the Palestinian side. Finkelstein, Falk....yeah, can see why you'd get excited. Be that as it may - it is not clear what the figures are based on (other than the Hamas controlled figures touted around). Quite obviously these figures lump together civilians and Hamas personnel - in order to inflate the former. While you may declare 'a case for', I am not aware that the number of casualties, by itself is central to the process of deciding whether a crime was committed.

Yeah, well....that's to be checked, reviewed and decided. And even then, not all war crimes or crimes against humanity are of the same caliber. Given that the Hamas crimes are not disputed (just that maybe there are more of them and more to it than initially thought), maybe stick with facts, rather than focus on speculation.

I doubt there's an effective alliance even between two of the three, never mind all.

Israel is guilty of Hamas atrocities?

At least you seem to accept they were taken against their will....or maybe you'll try to claim they happily tagged along to Gaza?

He meant Pedro(s).

"Asperger's disease...." Eh?

"Something is definitely brewing incrementally but sure." I think there are very rarely times when this does not apply. Then again, the sky is still up....

A lot of interesting stuff though. For example, if you want to talk more freely with people from countries you often can't. Some interesting forums and groups to be found as well. I'm aware there's a lot of criminal and other dodgy stuff, but where you do and what you open/read/watch is up to you. The nasty bits are not a must. Also, way safer not to loiter in them.

The same article you linked and cherry picked from contains a counter explanation, which you chose to disregard.

You cherry pick from an article which contains a counter explanation just bellow as to why these bombs were used. This was not 'debunked' now, nor on the previous topic. This ain't carpet bombing, and this wasn't claimed even n the quote you cherry picked.

More nonsense. This was discussed on the previous topic. And on plenty of past ones. Not even sure what your conspiracy claim is, exactly.

If one word is good enough for you, what was wrong with 'nonsense', as previously offered?

You should reference the post above, by another poster. There are other means of alerting civilians to attacks being used. Regardless, my main point was that the IDF clearly broadcasted the message for the Gazans to evacuate to the south. It was clearly communicated that airstrikes will be carried out and that a ground offensive is on the cards. In fact, operations were twice held back to allow more mass movement of people out of the expected battle zone. You may discount all that, up to you - the fact stands that warnings were given. As a rule, Hamas does not provide details on it's own casualties during fighting. If we agree to consider Hamas men as legit targets, then their number ought to be subtracted (or treated separately) from the overall casualty figures. Recent comments on Hamas casualties provided by the IDF (I'll try finding a proper English language source) refer to the 5000-6000 range (I am not clear if that includes the Hamas men killed on 7/10 or only afterwards - but the same lack of clarity applies for Hamas provided figures). Even if that is exaggerated, the figure would still be in the thousands. Then you have the issue of 'war time' figures from the Gaza Strip failing to differentiate between natural occurring deaths and war-related deaths for the time frame in question. I have not a doubt thousands of Palestinian civilians died, including children. War is hell, and this one was started by Hamas - who treats his own people as potential sacrifices for the 'cause'. You seem to feel that Hamas 'had no choice' or something like that. I neither accept nor agree.

'Has to' is not the same as 'can be'. I think I made the same observation even on the early stages of the previous main topic.

I didn't mean to imply you they will be sacrificed, but to simply to raise the point that this is a major problem. Generals and leaders prepping their men for a fight is the done thing, politicians often find ways to excuse or spin different decisions ultimately taken. Hamas rhetoric, for example, is always one of confrontation to the death sort of thing - but in effect they raise the white flag quite often. Just a matter of controlling media and dictating the narrative. Israel is the same, but much less authoritative, of course, so the spins are harder, and never as full proof. I don't know how things will be decided - because there are several competing propositions, and the situation is volatile enough that a single small incident can send all 'best intentions' flying. If to draw on past experiences - the current paradigm of hostage releases would continue up to a point where Hamas feels it doesn't serve it's purposes. Maybe that has to do with how many hostages are left in their hands, maybe how well they have prepared for an offensive in southern Gaza Strip, and maybe they managed to smuggle a few hostages out. I should think there's not much chance of massive regional involvement on their behalf (maybe on par with what was seen previously), but could be waiting/planning for a some sort of uprising/unrest in the West Bank to make things more complicated and garner more international support. It's hard to tell because seems like the Hamas decision making process is somewhat broken as compared to the past. Seems like the shots are called almost entirely by the military wing and the Gaza leadership, whereas communications are carried out vs. the Hamas leadership in Qatar. From Israel's side - I seriously doubt that the possibility (or interest) to repeat the same style of fighting applied so far to the southern Gaza Strip. It cannot be as successful, and would certainly generate more international criticism and pressure vs. Israel. Maybe to a degree that will effect USA support. So in case there is no comprehensive ceasefire/hostage deal, it could very well be that Israel would finish up operations in the northern part, then go about the south-side in a different manner - much slower, methodical, and slowly allowing people to return to their homes up north. This is unlikely to be very productive either, and would eventually run into the same international reactions issues previously mentioned. One option that might work is something like the solution applied in 1982 vs. the Fatah in Beirut. The Fatah was cornered and under siege, but the choice made was not to enter and occupy a major Arab city and capital, but to allow the Fatah to withdraw (back then to Tunisia). This allowed both sides some space for media spins, and avoided much bloodshed and prolonged fighting. I don't know if this will be acceptable, and on what terms, this time around.

No. You post something, which is not your opinion, not your contribution - but an outside source. You do not comment on it, nor convey your views and thoughts - but demand others do so. Please expand on what, exactly, appeals to you in the guy's clip.

Always the same - you raise claims, can't support them, move the goalposts. You have no point, other than your objection to Israel's existence. That's about as extreme and reactionary as it can get in reference to the issues at hand. As for your last bit of context free waffle - the Palestinians could have made their own choices, or better choices, or whatever. Asserting, in effect, that they had no part in shaping their own destiny and predicament is nonsense. At almost any juncture, Palestinians chose the worst possible option - one could only imagine how things would have panned out if they hadn't.

My comments were clear, and not very complex. You're trying to present my views in a misleading manner, over and over again. I think it was dishonest to begin with, I know it was when you kept at it. The rest of your trolling nonsense is dully noted.

There were no 'carpet bombings'. Same goes for 'indiscriminate'. You're trolling again. Spin it as much as you like, once Hamas abducted the hostages, their safety is on Hamas.

I don't think the claim was that Iran participated in the 7/10 attack. Don't think you missed it either. You make a wholesale denial of any Iranian connection or knowledge - based on Iran's claims. If you think the Hamas is capable of producing anti-tank missiles, or that all of the weapons in its possession are home-made, DiY stuff - then you're either misinformed, or more likely, knowingly posting lies. This was covered, in detail on recent past topics, where you tried this nonsense as well. Give it a rest, troll.

What do you think, Jeff? Or do you expect other posters to comment in-depth on clip you posted by haven't bothered commenting on?