Morch

It was like that, many years ago, nowadays doesn't waste time if it's peanuts. She actually seems more stressed when the mistake is in our favor (that happens too), fearing the cashier will be blamed/punished.

No. And this have little to do with what was commented on earlier.

Reading news about the USA one would have expected multiple frames of fire shots....none of that in the clip. Interesting. Also, most of the 'robbers' seem like certified idiots. Wonder how the manage to walk straight, even. Plus everything is practically slow motion, long time for people to get a handle on what's going on, comment etc. Got to love the guy running away in the parking lot, almost leaving the fatty gf (I assume) behind.

You are referencing monies which are mostly allocated for Buying American. That is, they can be spent in the USA buying from USA firms. Like a subsidy. It's not same same, other than in your mind.

@thaibeachlovers What are you on about? When was there an actual possibility of 'American boys coming home in bags' with regard to this war?

@thaibeachlovers Hamas could have helped minimize Palestinian casualties by (a) Not starting the war. (b) Providing locals with shelter. (c) Avoiding launching rockets and attacks from civilian areas/facilities. (d) Not trying to deter civilians from evacuating.

@thaibeachlovers The blind support for a corrupt country You support Russia.....

Could have been curbed. Was not. For political reasons. Denial ain't gonna do no good. There were terrorist organizations before Iran and Qatar got on the scene. The difference is one of scale.

You could have sent a PM, or linked my name on the post and ask directly. I think we've been over this on more than past occasion, though, so not really seeing the point. As mentioned above, the conflicts between relevant historians aren't as bloody as the actual conflict itself, but as heated. There are many versions, many takes, and a whole lot of drama. Hanging on to any of that group as guru, fountain of all knowledge etc., is a choice. In my opinion and (with some) experience - they are mostly ego-maniacs, and once they get going it quickly bring to mind these here 'discussions'. My view is that if people are interested, read them all (well, not Pappe, he's more a political activist than historian), with an open mind. It exemplifies how complex this is. It's worth noting that for some (notably, Morris) there are 'phases', in which conceptual changes can be observed. Overall, this has little bearing on the topics at hand. Much of this historical, and pseudo-historical 'debate' is basically about the misguided fantasy of finding some unassailable, undeniable 'proof' which will somehow nullify the other side's claims and compel him to accept defeat (or something). That's not how things go in real life. There will never be such an 'a-ha!' moment.

@ozimoron This clip actually shows most buildings not seriously damaged. Shop fronts, windows, some street facing walls yes.

That is patently untrue. Given that you do not actually read posts and topics, your comment is beyond ridiculous. Plenty of such views aired on here over the years, including during the last 2+ months. Such posts do have a limited 'life span', though, same as: Such posts do not stay up very long, normally. To deny they appear is a choice. Some of the participants on 'your' side of the debate engaged in such more than once on these topics.

It's an 'opinion' piece by a poster. From the link:

@ozimoron From the same article:

@thaibeachlovers More hot air and nothing comments. For example: (a) Much of the world is against them - In what meaningful way? Do countries break diplomatic/trade relations? Are there any boycotts/sanctions? Mass recall of Ambassadors? It's more like stock slogan you put up any time there a topic related to this conflict. (b) Israel will indeed pay for this in the future. Karma will get them - Another old favorite. Doubts as to the clarity of your crystal ball aside, you keep saying that and not a whole lot happens. So sure, could be that now is, finally, the time, that it will be different. Only it won't. Been there done that. (c) As for America - considering your many anti-USA posts, do you think many on here take your views on it as unbiased, hinged even? And as expected did not take long for you to congratulate the orcs, whom you support on the other front. Like they are some pro-peace side. Get real. (d) this conflict has brought front and center how useless the UN is yada yada yada - this happens on a regular basis. There is nothing new, 'front and center' or otherwise about it. It's just you banging the same toy drum.

@ozimoron Two right-wing politicians (not top tier, by any means), both religious and one (the minister) a regular loose cannon. Previously when some of the more extreme Hamas leaders were quoted, there were objections that such view are not representative etc.

@ozimoron What you think is irrelevant. Israel is a state, regardless of your views. And by now, it's already been established that your grasp of the 'war crimes' (and related concepts) is not as firm as you think.

Here's another way in which these topics pretty much reflect reality. In Israel, there a plurality of opinions. Some of them going way beyond the wannabe-pro-Palestinians posters' comments on here. But the main point is that there exists a sizeable base which can discuss the relevant issues from a non-fanatic point of view, through reason, accept responsibility for certain things and so on. In Palestinians society, similar elements are comparatively minuscule. One can cite many reasons for that - but the bottom line remains. There is way less acceptance of accountability, of openness to the other sides' point of view and so on. Pretty much the same could be observed on these topics.

Back in 2005 or so, around the time Israel was gearing to detach itself from the West Bank, Hamas could have take a different path. It could have taken the opportunity, and demonstrate what a Palestinians State would look like. It sort of did that, but not in a way that helped 'the cause' much. All this nonsense poured by some posters, going on and on and on about Israel - dodges this. There was a choice. A certain path was taken. This wasn't Israel's doing. The destruction and death witnessed on the Gaza Strip these these past weeks? That's also a product of a choice made by Hamas. Because spin it whichever you like, this wasn't happening on 6/10. You want to make excuses for Hamas, go right ahead. You want to broadcast Hamas talking points? That's fine. But at least be honest about it - all this cursory 'I condemn Hamas' nonsense, followed by torrents of one-sided diatribes, total blindness to the other side's faults and responsibility - that doesn't really fool anyone.

@ozimoron The Oracle act again? Your ridiculous, simplistic pronouncements are somewhere between amusing and embarrassing. 'Don't deserve'? Says who? You? In case you missed it, Israel already got a state. Evil? That's again your opinion, and not a very balanced one at that. As for your Nazi nonsense, it's actually a textbook reaction. More and more you make it clear that you are not here to debate, discuss or talk about issues - you're here to pontificate, to push some extreme agenda, out of touch concepts and so forth.

I think that's gone out the window long ago. Some posters are plain trolls. Others holds views which are simply unacceptable. And a couple can't seem to handle more then a few exchanges without going out of focus. There's also very little trust, I think. Like, you could post this now, and a few hours later revert to kind. Not a great motivator.

Returning to the previous analogy between discussions here and the negotiations/peace process/relations between the sides - the exchange above shows that with some posters, the issues are more on a basic communication level. I doubt very much that you actually posted something that could be construed as 'the Palestinians don't want their own land'. Out of the blue comes charges the usual suspect with strong condemnation for an imaginary position: Sometimes reality is easier than this forum....

@ozimoron I don't think you think much. You react. Sometimes to actual comments, often to what you imagine people posted.

@ozimoron Again with the one-sided nonsense views?

Separation implies each side letting go of some parts of its narrative, so hard to do. Especially with so many decades invested in building them. The details, as you call them, aren't really the issue. Many people don't get that. The technical aspect of the separation is doable. Not easy, but not impossible. They can be solved this way or the other. But so long as there's no willingness to really accommodate a resolution, its kinda futile dealing with them. They can decrease/increase tensions some, but are not a substitute for paradigm change. The Palestinians basically agreed already that their new state will not be 'fully sovereign' from the get go. They traditionally argued more about the visuals, not the substance, of this. Not exactly a priority anyway for them, and it's one thing Israel will neither budge about and will not be pressured about, so why bother. You are right that trust is a major issue and problem. That's where other parties can significantly help. But, of course, it will be a long time before more normal relations will be a thing. So far, we're not even close to this step, even.

OK. One side says, we were here first, it's all ours, you're evil, go away. The other side says, no - we were here first, it's all ours, you're evil, go away. That's the rough version, but I think it makes the point. So between these two narratives, there's not a whole lot of room for compromise or deal making. Add over a hundred years of animosity and bloodshed, shake well. Look at these topics. People rarely listen, budge, try to grasp complex answers. It's more of a black and white thing, which again - not likely to go anywhere. I've been on these forums a long time, and these topics are always the same. Sort of like the relations between the two people.