jerrymahoney

Ok. Have fun wherever. (Really). I just computed with/if Social Security off limits and with the available deductions especially for an old codger my Thai tax bill might be $US 100 per year. No reason to go packing for me.

That is because the PNG I posted of Paragraph 3 and the verbiage you used to describe Paragraph 3 are not the same.

Right now I will just say I don't care. The annuity would only be a top-up to the Social Security to get to the 65K and if I have to pay tax on it, with all the available deductions, it won't be much. As to further interpretation of Paragraph 3, I have no further comment.

Gee Thanks.

T The italics quote was just someone looking to give me my comeuppance. And as far as I am concerned, ALL my remittances to Thailand going back 10 years and more would be covered by US-Thai DTA Article 20. I have now done the 65K+ baht per month retirement extension for the 4 years of the new regime wherein you had to supply banking records of the monthly FTT transactions. So if the revenue folks were looking for me, they would know where to find me.

Article 20 Paragraph 3 Under paragraph 3, annuities that are derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State are taxable only in that State. An annuity, as the term is used in this paragraph, means a stated sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payment in return for adequate and full consideration (other than for services rendered). https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/thaitech.pdf And as per Ms. Sheryl above, my Social Security payments alone are NOT enough for the min. 65K per month transfer.

If the the USA-Thai DTA article 20 Pars. 2 & 3 are applied, I won't have any tax bill in Thailand at all. And before some says: Well with what evidence of income could you prove that? at least for immigration and their "source of funds" letter, I already do.

It seems the only thing one can really do at this point is to make a lump sum foreign sourced deposit to ones Thai bank account prior to the DEC 31, 2023 witching hour.

As I have posted before, without any foreign tax credits or DTA-stuff, my tax bill based just on the currently available deductions, would be about $US 100 per month. Especially the 190K baht age 65+ credit. I wouldn't like it, but not worth packing my bags 'cause of it.

You said earlier this topic to me: What's new in 2024 is that your 65K (per month) is now reportable. Fine. But it looks like you want to be 180+ days per year tax resident in Thailand with no reportable income. Legally.

To which the answer to that query was NOT: Foreign sourced tax-free gifts up to 20 million baht as maintenance to spouse? You Betcha. We do that for our mega-wealthy tax clients all the time. Beats paying 35% tax on that 5 - 20 million baht of the gift component. Been that way since FEB 2016.

At least according to the report in their seminar as referenced by K. Dogmatix, the (Mazars?) presenter said such foreign gifts 'should' be allowed, which leads me to infer, at least according to that presenter's experience , he does know that such a foreign tax-free gift transfer that has ever happened.

I expect the first line of inquiry may be when Immigration says they won't give you an extension of stay without a Thai tax number (TIN) Also from Mazars: According to the Revenue Department, it will seek opinions from the stakeholders affected by the new rule and issue guidelines to provide more clarity. The plan includes an amendment of the personal income tax return form to facilitate the foreign tax credit claim. https://www.mazars.co.th/Home/Insights/Doing-Business-in-Thailand/Tax/Thailand-Tax-Foreign-Income-Taxable-from-2024 When or if that happens, I will comply. I am not on here asking questions as to "How will they find out if ..."

This is from the US DTA -Thailand technical report Article 20: 3. Annuities derived and beneficially owned by a resident of a Contracting State shall be taxable only in that State. The term “annuities” as used in this paragraph means a sum paid periodically at stated times during a specified number of years, under an obligation to make the payments in return for adequate and full consideration (other than services rendered). If you think I haven't filed to-date when I should have filed, fine. Turn me in.

Presume away.

I am not clever. I set up my finances 10+ years ago to conform to a monthly income of 65K+ baht even when all that was required was an affidavit from the US Embassy saying you do have it. Not did that only make it easy for me to comply with the change 4 years ago that you actually had to document a monthly 65K+ FTT transaction and have a "Source of Funds" Letter to prove it, it now works that my financial structure totally conforms to the Article 20 US-Thai DTA. So being not clever with the agent-assisted extension and other vapor-ware approaches is looking pretty good heading into 2024.

Yes. But as of right now, with the available deductions to me including the age 65+, I figure my tax bill would be about $US 100 per month. But with the US Thai DTA Article 20 Paragraphs 2 and 3, would be zero. But I enjoy reading the posts on this and other topics as to how one can be a 180+ day tax resident in Thailand and have income that is not reported to the Revenue folks as income.

And zero living expenses. I just got done with a retirement extension via 65K baht monthly deposit. They wanted 4 different bank reports showing the same FTT monthly deposits and the names of my long-deceased mother and father.

How un-clever. I like the posts of how the quick-witted farang will out-maneuver the slow plodding Thai Revenue agent.

Presumably. But in your post above, you are asking about untraceable ATM withdrawals.

How do you show funds then for an extension of stay?

Maybe. But at least it seems that the tax lawyers and accountants running the show at AMCHAM and with their high-end clientele aren't familiar with them and have never processed such a tax form as submitted to the Revenue Department. From the Mazars Thailand website: Mazars specialises in audit, accounting, tax and advisory services across a range of markets and sectors. We offer specialist skills beyond the reach of most regional firms. https://www.mazars.co.th/ But if anyone has (ever) since FEB 2016 made a tax-free maintenance gift to a spouse in Thailand up to 20 million baht per annum from an offshore account, we don't know about it.

The whole conundrum with Immigration and the agent payoffs is that the people who need to be arrested are the same people that need to do the arresting. All that may change January 1, 2024. Revenue Department may say that such maneuvers are facilitating tax fraud. Maybe. Stay tuned.

My father got the tag: 2 woods and a wedge (for par 5) He didn't hit the ball far but he hit it straight. But he had a short game with a wedge that was like watching a pool player. Could go straight up and straight down with backspin if necessary.