way2muchcoffee

Supporting the people who are demonstrating is one thing.  Supporting their leader is another.  You will be looking for a while to find a post of mine supporting Thaksin.  I see little, if any redeeming qualities in the man.  I see a lot of redeeming qualities in the people protesting in Bangkok.  

The problem is that the people you are supporting have the stated goal of bringing back Thaksin. Therefore, if you support their movement you also support this goal. Personally I sympathize with the plight of the poor, but I cannot support this movement until the divorce themselves entirely from Thaksin and call for his imprisonment.

One last try!

I agree that the 1 million number was probably chosen as an attention grabber. I agree that there is probably enough credible data to create the number. I accept your 10% attenance rate.

Having put together a few not so large gatherings I can tell you that there is no real way to insure that size of a gathering estimate is accurate. Three things must be done to try to achieve an attendance: 1. get early commitment of attendance 2. pay attendees fee ahead of time to insure attendees do not have out of pocket expense 3. confirm arrival and if the attendee does not arrive require a stiff penalty be paid. In the best of circumstances 50% of attendance estimate is good.

Now that I have agree to all that. There is no conclusion that can be derived from the 10% attendance rate execpt the fact itself.

Any conclusion that is reached other that the attendance fact is implausible. Is not possible to explain such a leap.

I'm not asking you to buy anything. It is just Logic 101, plain and simple, no matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise.

There is one very obvious conclusion to be made here. The red leaders seriously underestimated the number of people willing to go to BKK to support their cause.

What a joke. The Reds claim to represent a majority of Thais, yet can only muster 10% of the promised attendance in their invasion of Bangkok.

Maybe not a majority at this time, but certainly a plurality as the past elections have shown. We can't change the facts.

Please tell me what the correlation of having 10% of any population to travel several hundred miles with continued escalating rhetoric about police and government actions against them and what ever your point is. I got lost.

Thanks.

Clearly you did get lost.

!0% of the promised numbers turned out, not 10% of the population.

Have a shower.

Oh I see! I appologize. My mistake I assumed that you were knowledgeable of set theory. In this case the population is the total number of reds.

What I didn't understand is how this fact relates to anything else. That leap is not explainable.

So James, it appears you are asserting that the total population of reds is 1,000,000. That is about 1.5% of the population of Thailand. Perhaps you should report your findings to the red leaders and their cheerleaders here at TV as your numbers are seriously at odds with their claims.

The face on the giant TV screen has reached the limits of desperation, and will say anything that could possibly have any impact at all. Funny about a 'class uprising' being incited by a rich SOB traversing the planet in a private jet. Anyway, no need to dissect and analyze what is being said, it's all just blather, and you'd be putting more thought into the words than the person who spoke them. For further entertainment along these lines give a listen to Tom Waits's 'Step Right Up.'

This is like all those conservative guys in the US denouncing elites while they themselves make millions per year for spouting their drivel. Taksin has definitely taken a few notes from these guys. Redshirts equate to the US Teabaggers.

Anyway, what class? These Issani bumpkins don't seem to have much class at all. Oops, does saying that make me an elite?

"Elite"? - no. "Bigot"? - yes.

Why? A bumpkin is an unsophisticated person. How many of the redshirts presently demonstrating would know which fork to use at a fine dining restaurant? It isn't a criticism, it's a fact.

Wow.. I don't think that even requires a reply! (Will issue a hint though, and it's got everything to do with looking down on people and dismissing their aspirations in society.)

Wow. You deliberately left off the next part of my statement. Very sneaky and rude of you, naughty boy. I went on to say that my wife is a bumpkin. I needed to teach her a more complete set manners than she was able get from being raised in the village. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Bumpkin simply means unsophisticated, which most rural Thais are. I'm sorry if you can't see the truth in this and in your quest for political correctness choose to see insult where there is none.

Even worse you accuse me of dismissing and looking down on them? Ridiculous. I would not have married my wife if 'sophisticated' was something I think is important in a person. I have no doubt that anyone can be taught socially appropriate behaviors. That's the point - these are learned, not innate. Dismiss their aspirations? Hardly. I support their aspirations wholeheartedly, to the extent that they revolve around social equality and opportunity. What I do not support is the bringing back of a criminal to run a country, no matter how well he is loved.

The face on the giant TV screen has reached the limits of desperation, and will say anything that could possibly have any impact at all. Funny about a 'class uprising' being incited by a rich SOB traversing the planet in a private jet. Anyway, no need to dissect and analyze what is being said, it's all just blather, and you'd be putting more thought into the words than the person who spoke them. For further entertainment along these lines give a listen to Tom Waits's 'Step Right Up.'

This is like all those conservative guys in the US denouncing elites while they themselves make millions per year for spouting their drivel. Taksin has definitely taken a few notes from these guys. Redshirts equate to the US Teabaggers.

Anyway, what class? These Issani bumpkins don't seem to have much class at all. Oops, does saying that make me an elite?

"Elite"? - no. "Bigot"? - yes.

Why? A bumpkin is an unsophisticated person. How many of the redshirts presently demonstrating would know which fork to use at a fine dining restaurant? It isn't a criticism, it's a fact. hel_l, my wife is a bumpkin. She's from rural Thailand and prefers that when we go out we stay away from the best restaurants because it makes her feel awkward. No problem. I like burgers and pad khrapow as much as the next guy.

yes one of the biggest injustice is certainly the access to a proper Education. The quality of the Issan educational system is far below Bangkok and if you are a poor farmer you have no choice:

- you cannot pay the Bangkokian fees (+ boarding). Your children have to go to the local school.

Concerning the leaders, a lot of examples in History demonstrates that it is often Middle class people who are leading (at least initially) the 'War of Class'.

- A lot of examples shows equally that the result is often the replacement of an "Elite" by a "Nomenklatura".

So maybe better to find middle ways and consensus on society reforms,and to negotiate...

Most Bangkokian kids go to 'local' government schools that are not much better, if at all, than the Issan ones.

How did he get that house then in Sukhumvit Soi 31? With 36 million Baht he couldn't even pay the land his house stands on.

How do you know it wasn't family property? I know a family of doctors with a compound on sukhumvit that is larger than Abhisit's. They certainly couldn't afford that land today, but the area wasn't very developed 50 years ago when the purchase took place.

Gosh you assume that Somchai was some kind of robot, and the red shirts the same ?

Its always the same here ....

Were you here then? Somchai was exactly a robot. To argue otherwise is laughable.

The AOT closed the airport, after the Thaksin government did not evict them. Thaksin's fault.

More tosh - he wasn't the Prime Minister then.

He most certainly was - just not in title. The reality is that the Somchai government acted at the beck and call of Mr. T.

Plots? More like just rumors - this is just plain rubbish. I quite imagine there are plots against Khun T - I think I even read a few plots on TV that members would like to off the lad. Just shows you - anything can make the news even if its not factually true.

Actually brit you have absolutely no idea what the intelligence analysts and authorities here have learned. Neither do I. So your rejection of this is based not in fact but on your political persuasion.

I am sure the elite abisit will be well familiar with the phrase " what goes round comes round" from his days at Eton.

You are advocating the assassination of Thailand's P.M.

Really? Disgusting.

And of course the whole country loses the EXPENSE of running those unnecessary by elections.

So many things to fix and pay for in a just recovering economic situation, and they want to throw

more money away in making their point.

Elections are an unnecessary expense???????

Wow. Your true position comes through doesn't it?

Yes, elections are an expense, but an election is sort of a fundamental part of a democracy isn't it?

No need for an election in your world it seems.

A depressing sentiment, and puts you in the company of some wonderful despots. Perhaps you wish to reconsider your statement?

Oh please. Elections now are an unnecessary expense because there is a legitimate government in place, with the PM elected by parliament. The next elections will be in approximately 20 months. Should there be an election every time 80,000 protesters gather? Your attempt to smear is at best disingenuous.

You are getting 24 km/liter? Amazing. Best I can do in my Dmax is 14 km/l

Like I said , I drive slowww. I once drove Bangkok 35-4-41-401 to Nakhon Si Thammarat,

in 4,1 l/100km av. Pretty good road except for the bad stretch from Prachuap KK to north Surat.

Bangkok - Chiang Mai av 4,6. More mountains and via the 11 not the bad 1.

You're me here. Of course I'm a bit of a leadfoot. I average about 120 km/h and love to push 150-160 km/h in safe stretches with little traffic. Needless to say I average about 12 km/l.

Seems people have forgotten about a certain airport seizure, and stranding vacationers in Thailand for weeks. Oh, oops, that was ok, since that wasn't the Reds. My bad.

Is it really to much to ask for people to be honest? Weeks? 9 Days is more like it. The airport takeover was deplorable, but at least get the facts right.

Funny how when the yellows were doing it you didnt hear a peep from the same people that are fervently denouncing the same behaviour of the reds.

True. But the reds here were screaming like banshees. Double standards?

Thanks,

Good to hear that after Chonburi there are no toll booths. Yes the 7 is already packed with heavy traffic.

I've just read that the last piece near Pattaya is opening soon.

By the way , I drive slow and on a nice highway , I can keep my Dmax on 4,2l/100km av.

That is about 1,2 B/km with price of diesel around 29B/l.

You are getting 24 km/liter? Amazing. Best I can do in my Dmax is 14 km/l

My three cents: Trying to be positive and to improve the situation:

First, the split between rural and urban population: it is a direct consequence of the (too) fast industrialisation. I understand the Bangkokians and their focus on the economy performances, but they have also to give answers to their rural fellow citizens. They cannot build the 22th Century Thailand and let half of the population behind.... (Europeans, Americans, we have known such situations one or two generations ago, nothing new on this planet)

Secondly, immediately, the government (of any colour) has to give answers to rice and rubber prices stability, drought (irrigation projects are far to be taken seriously and implemented)...Also Rural population needs that part of the cake is invested for improving their welfare and incomes, do not forget them in your modernisation and expansion projects. Not everything on grandiose projects. Elite...you have to share ....If not you will be swept sooner or later....

Thirdly, if the Rural population is poorly educated, is not it a failure of the current system? Please do not insult your fellow citizens, some people have some responsibility in maintaining them at this very low educational level, is not it? But maybe, some people want to perpetuate this situation?

Yes, the rural population have difficulties to express their issues; they have only found one politician who has listened to them: this man is far to be perfect, but he has been smart enough to listen to 50% of the Thai population.

Listen to each other and share the progress.. in order to build a modern Thailand of which, together –rural and urban people- tomorrow you will be proud of your Country

Well stated.

Would you believe me if I told you I know people who were paid to vote for the Dems.

Of course I would. I already agreed that some Democrat MPs engaged in vote buying. Those MPs were punished accordingly. Same with the PPP. But this isn't why the PPP was dissolved. The PPP was dissolved because the party leadership engaged in electoral fraud. This is something the Democrat party leadership did not do.

The army is and always has been in control.

I think most people would agree that Thailand and Burma are very different.

The real issue is>

PPP the government at the time were kicked out of office for vote buying.

Democrats were not banned for vote buying although everybody knows they did.

its so simple

also if Thaksin was only caretaker PM why the coupe?

PPP MPs were yellow carded and red carded and were dealt with on a case by case basis

Democrat MPs were yellow carded and red carded and were dealt with on a case by case basis

Democrat Executive MPs were not found to be guilty of electoral fraud and thus the Dems remained a legal party

PPP Executive MPs were found to be guilty of electoral fraud and thus the PPP was dissolved

Yes and that's why the reds are screaming DOUBLE STANDARDS!

Also if elections were due then why the coupe? they didn't need one.

Was it to first get rid of the opposition? which they did

Good idea get rid of the opposition and you are bound to win right?

But even then they lost

Instead of screaming double standards they might try to clean up their act and stop committing electoral fraud.

This is all propaganda and scare mongering. The red shirts are going to sieze the 11th infantry battalion please...... We are educated farangs.... Who is throwing out all these wierd and wonderful fairy tales. This is propoganda spread by the elite yellow.... and yes yellow which means frightened.

Yes it is scaremongering. The redshirts are making these announcements on stage in public in front of tens of thousands of people and yes, even TV cameras. Scaremongering is indeed occurring. Mostly, however, it is redshirt leaders trying to scare the residents of Bangkok.

The real issue is>

PPP the government at the time were kicked out of office for vote buying.

Democrats were not banned for vote buying although everybody knows they did.

its so simple

also if Thaksin was only caretaker PM why the coupe?

PPP MPs were yellow carded and red carded and were dealt with on a case by case basis

Democrat MPs were yellow carded and red carded and were dealt with on a case by case basis

Democrat Executive MPs were not found to be guilty of electoral fraud and thus the Dems remained a legal party

PPP Executive MPs were found to be guilty of electoral fraud and thus the PPP was dissolved

It is a genuine question. Where is he? This is the final push. He's paying for most of it. He's been twittering for weeks. He's loudly proclaimed that this is his fight, but he is conspicuously absent.

He promised a phone-in for earlier this evening. Does anyone know if this occurred?

Where is Thaksin?

Agree. Throw all the red and yellow shirt leaders (everyone of them who took to the stage) in jail and throw away the key.

Now we're talking, and it's really that simple.

throw the people that staged the coup in jail and their active supporters. ban the silent supporters of the coup from politics for a couple of years.

give the no-coup activist a democracy award and the respect they deserve.

no-coup is the basic solution and the lesson people have to learn if they wanna have a prosperous future. the current situation is part of that lesson.

You can't be serious. What you describe will surely cause the coup you aim to prevent.

Who do you believe are the active supporters? Who are the silent supporters?

How many of the 60 million chose to vote Abhisit into power?

Results of the one-man-one vote party list election in 2007

Democrats: 14,084,265 39.63%

PTP: 14,071,799 39.60%