way2muchcoffee

You see, that's the problem with your point of view on this. Lioness said something you don't like, so now you call her rude and disrespectful and hypocritical and "impugning the beliefs of others out of hand". Based on your point of view, why isn't she perfectly right in saying what she said?

Years ago when I was an assistant principal in the States, I would nearly vomit every time the female principal would reprimand a student who had given the finger or used the F word by saying, "Adults never say (or do) that." Well, my view is quite different -- there's a time and place for almost everything. But to be honest, the number of times one must resort to vulgarity and obscenity ought to be rather limited...and if it's not, perhaps what's really limited in that person. Giving the finger or using the "<deleted>" phrase requires not on iota of intelligence. Even Richard Pryor, later in his life, realized that there is wisdom to some restraint: "There are no niggers here. The people here, they still have their self-respect, their pride."

Yes of course you are right. My post smacks of the same hypocrisy I accused lioness of. I won't deny that. An alternate interpretation is that I wasn't really offended, and that I was only pointing out the inconsistency in lioness' position and her actions.

Please don't get me wrong. I don't go around calling people retards or flipping the bird at the slightest provocation. I'm from Seattle, which has to be one of the most PC-minded cities in the world. I was raised with it. I have been trained to withhold my tongue and speak with caution and deliberation so thoroughly that it is second nature. Nevertheless, I have come to believe that the PC madness has gone way too far. I believe that it now serves to stifle conversation, and makes the English language so full of euphemisms that original meaning gets lost.

Interesting.

If you take the coordintes from the google maps link above, and copy and past them into google earth, then go there.

Zoom in (to the temple area where all the blue squares which are photographs are) and then, holding down your shift key while scrolling with your mouse scroller, (the whole terrain shifts into a profile view) you can see that the boundary line basically goes up the ridge on the East/Northeast side.

Then when it almost gets to the peak of the mountain, it gets moved way over to the advantage of Cambodia.

Not so easy to explain. Better if you do it yourself and see what I mean.

Of course, Google is not the judge. Nor I.

But, I believe if Solomen were to look at it this way, Cambodia already seems to have gotten more than they deserve.

just my opinion of course

I certainly get a kick out of those blaming this on Taksin

Yes. I see what you mean. On the other hand, if you zoom out a bit and look at the flow of the border there is a larger deviation of the boundary that seems to significantly advantage Thailand in the demarcation.

For once, I'll say "well done to Bangkok's finest"

Finest? <deleted>! Once in a lifetime they seize a reasonable shipment, through an undercover sting, not exactly the French Connection?

Do you honestly believe that ALL the drugs seized went to the Police Station? Nice little 'earner' for the 'finest'

However credit where credit is due, and I am happy that it is off the streets, but really its not like they arrested anyone of significance!

I'm not one to defend the Thai police, but do you have any evidence whatsoever to support your assertion that drugs from this seizure are turned back out on the streets for personal profit?

There are several things that are being missed.

If he must chose his home country (according to the laws of that country), he doesn't lose his US citizenship.

That may be true, but the home country has the right to respond by revoking citizenship in that circumstance.

I am 25 and I will not date a woman long term that has tatoos. Also, if I marry a girl with long hair, it better stay long.

That's up to you entirely. We like what we like. Personally I like tattoos. I also like unblemished skin. I like long and short hair. Physical attraction is important initially, but emotional attraction will always be more important in the long run.

What a load of Twaddle, scraping the barrel now just for something to say.

Simply because we disagree fundamentally is no reason to be rude or disrespectful. Isn't that what this thread is about after all? And aren't you promoting strict rules for human interactions in order not to offend?

It would be less hypocritical if you would address and argue points from your perspective rather than impugning the beliefs of others out of hand.

Not limited to Thailand, but here we are.

Makeup is another huge issue for me. Too many women wear way too much makeup. Sometimes the face cake is so thick that I can't bear to look. This happens mostly with women in their 30's or 40's, but is definitely not limited to that age group. Personally I prefer a very light application of makeup that accentuates the natural features, or even better no makeup at all.

When a group of private citizens form a private army it is not necessarily illegal. Militias etc. are somewhat acceptable.

When a group of private citizens form a private army with the intent to overthrow the government it is called treason. Said army would be immediately put down.

In any case, this all seems to be a non-issue at this point.

It is common place among very common people. Among many groups of people it is not common place at all.

There is no need to make people feel uncomfortable. It's called self-restraint. We had "mildly mentally retarded" students in our school. Do you know how they felt when they were called "retards"?

Yes. I understand. Among many 'civilized' people the flipping the bird could result in the loss of your life.

Retarded and 'retard' is not the same thing. One is an adjective and the other is a noun. One is descriptive and the other is a label. To retard means to slow. If something or someone is retarded it means they are slow or in the case of a person not able to process information quickly. Are mentally disable people not 'slow to process information'? To me it is the same.

I realize that people refuse to be labeled by others, but why? Is my self worth tied to your referring to me with a label? If so, isn't it me who had better wise up and realize that your opinion of me has nothing to do with my opinion of myself? Or, should we simply sanitize the entire world so that nobody has an opportunity to take offense at anything?

I believe people express a false outrage at descriptive language (and gestures) simply because they are taught to, without any analysis or understanding of what exactly they are being offended by. If people would lighten up a bit they just might realize that most of the PC stuff is just that - political.

That's rubbish.

In Thailand it means that people expect more respectful behaviour. There is a total lack of respect in the West nowadays and it`s not welcome here. This is what makes Thailand such a great place to live.

Why would anyone want to make these sorts of gestures?

When Farangs move to Thailand they need to lose their Western aggression, as it`s not tolerated in Thailand.

I was trying to think of a suitable reply, but you have got it down perfectly. Generally the people who want to make these sort of gestures are illbread and uneducated in my book.

I completely disagree. Flipping the bird is a commonplace expression of annoyance and irritation. If a person reacts violently to it, then it is that person who is ill bread and uneducated.

It reminds me of the censoring of the 'f' word or the use of euphemisms in the PC generation. What is wrong with a word? Retarded versus mentally disabled - the unfortunate person is still impaired in some way. Their situation is not changed one way or the other by the word. Ridiculous stuff really.

You say darn, I say dam_n. You say ouch, sh_it. You say 'I'm annoyed', I say 'fu_ck you'. I really don't see the difference. The emotion expressed is the same. It is the reaction to that expression shows the measure of the person.

It really is amazing that some of you like to come across and intelligent yet choose to read things that are not actually there. Let me riterate, at no point do I advocate civil war and at no point do I say I want civil war. I simply point out that maybe it is what Thailand needs to move forward. For me to be advocating civil war I would need to say I agree with civil war.

I am sure there are good online dictionaries, maybe you can look up the word 'advocate', actually no need, I have done it for you just in case you got stuck trying to do this simple task,

<h2 class="me">ad⋅vo⋅cate</h2> AC_FL_RunContent = 0;var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://sp.ask.com/dictstatic/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "15", " /v. ˈædvəˌkeɪt; n. ˈædvəkɪt, -ˌkeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [v. ad-vuh-keyt; n. ad-vuh-kit, -keyt] Show IPA verb, -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing, noun –verb (used with object) 1. to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument; recommend publicly: He advocated higher salaries for teachers. –noun 2. a person who speaks or writes in support or defense of a person, cause, etc. (usually fol. by of): an advocate of peace. 3. a person who pleads for or in behalf of another; intercessor. 4. a person who pleads the cause of another in a court of law.

Hopefully now this is clear and at no point do I say I am in support of civil war, I simply suggest that it maybe what is needed for Thailand to move forward, that is neither condoning nor condemning it. It is as neutral as one can be.

Maybe I need to write disclaimers after every post for the hard of thinking. Hopefully the thread can get back on topic now.

So you are not speaking or writing in favor of, or supporting or urging by argument, or recommending publicly? OK.

Many people would take your suggestion as advocacy. On the other hand I would agree that you are not clearly advocating civil war in your earlier post. You are right, there is a difference. Perhaps people are interpreting your statement as more than you intended. You have now clarified your feelings and ideas on the matter so there should be no further misunderstanding.

IMHO civil war is the only chance for the oppressed Thais to be freed. Let's hope Thaksin succeed in his revolution

You can't possibly be serious. Have you any idea what a true civil war would do to the country of Thailand? What a completely irresponsible thing to say.

A little slow out the gate I reckon, given that the the red shirt violence and propaganda has been an ongoing saga of malicious half-truths and outright lies for months. Look no further than TVF for the red smear campaign that has ramped up in recent weeks.

Current Foreign Minster Kasit (a dedicated yellow-shirt airport-hugger) even said that the poor north/north-eastern voters should not have a right to vote because they don't know who they're voting for. Back then he wasn't Foreign Minister yet. After that comment, Abhisit made him Foreign Minister.

I don't remember this. Could you provide a reference please?

I tend to support Abhisit, but believe appointing Kasit as Foreign Minister was his biggest mistake.

All very good points nfs. Your argument of capital punishment on the basis of allowing the victim to move on in their life is for me far more compelling than the argument of deterrence or revenge.

The argument may be compelling but it raises many difficult questions.

What if the relatives of the victim do not believe in the death penalty and prefer that the killer spend life in prison?

What if the various relatives are divided in their opinion on this?

Is a wife's vote more important than a child's or mother' or brother's or sister's?

Who should decide, the state or the bereaved?

Is it appropriate, within legal frameworks, for the families of the victims to make this decision?

In what ways should other crime victims be given a more active role in the sentencing phase of the judicial process?

How is a family member's life improved by the execution of the killer of a loved one?

Can this be measured? How could this be studied objectively?

What does 'improved' mean?

Will it still be 'improved' if the family member is given power the life or death of another human?

I can't except the argument based on just those issues above, and I'm sure there are more.

the ideal would be a fixed reasonable size for a house with garden, but stop foreigners buying two plots next to each other to stop them amassing too much land on one plot

I agree, but would further require that the foreigner is married to a Thai national at time of land purchase.

There could also be a second mechanism for financially secure foreign seniors in retirement.

Would you care to share the amount agreed on previously and the new amount requested? It might help give us a sense of the true situation.

Some things to consider:

1) Your wife will be influenced by her parents, probably until they die. Most Thai women are, and very few are truly independent.

2) It is not uncommon for Thai men to borrow money from their parents to help with the Sin Sod and wedding costs.

3) It is not uncommon for most of the Sin Sod money to be kept by the wife's parents, but it is better if they return most or all of it.

My condolences to the friends and family of those killed. I hope those injured make a speedy recovery.

Unfortunately, bus drivers are sometimes under additional stress to get students to school on time. The schools in the area where I live have to make two runs in the morning. The second one is when they encounter heavy morning rush-hour traffic. They then do some very unsafe things. This isn't an excuse for them, but an explanation. I've seen them catching right-royal hel_l from the school administration for being late.

God forbid they should miss standing smartly for the National Anthem.

Condolences also to the families and the injured.

Scott - I don't see any validity to your defense given that the vans could start 30 minutes earlier and there would be no problem whatsoever with getting the kids in on time.

oooo seems I have a forum nemesis, how exciting.

although the failure to see the link between two houses having excrement thrown over the wall has obviously gone astray and my comments to my neighbours about about being men was not meant as macho, it was meant to embarrass them for their actions, I was not threatening fisticuffs but ho hum, you keep stalking me round the forum and trying to belittle me because I disagreed with your comments another thread, there's a good boy.

some people take themselves way too seriously on here and think their opinion is oh so important to others

No stalking mate. Just that I call B.S. on specious arguments when I see them. Perhaps there is an unusual amount of it coming from you through your posts. I'm an equal opportunity commenter....

someone threw shit at my house one night, said my dogs had shit on the estate (which they had not as I walk them off the estate another english cocker spaniel is walked on the estate and is the guilty party). No senior policeman came rushing to my house to investigate (probably because I never called them but i expect i will in the future knowing the fantastic response I will get).

I waited until the next village meeting and asked which coward lowered themselves to pick up dog shit, carry it through the estate at night and throw it at the wrong house, and I asked the coward to be a man and stand up now and talk to me, I then pointed out which dog it was and the guards confirmed i walk my dogs off the estate (I live near the guard house). surprise surprise nobody took up my offer of discussing the matter.

And while your story is interesting and confirms you are a macho man, I don't see that it bears any relevance whatsoever on the case here.

If the judges do their job properly, they got nothing to worry about.

Unfortunately, the way I see it, their defensiveness and anxiety pretty much speaks for itself.

I expect the judges will do exactly what the King indirectly instructed them to do - be just.

Whatever the ruling is, it is guaranteed that some group or other will see injustice in the decision. People will be angry and violence could result.

The kind of person who can't bear not getting 1000 bt per head?

Disgusting indeed.

A thoroughly appropriate gift for Abhisit.

I suggest you head home for a quick holiday trip and try this at the private home of the head of government in your country. I think you'll find out rather quickly just how appropriate this kind of behavior is.

well in your opinion it went downhill after 2005, in my opinion it went downhill after the coup.

sneaking in the back door is exactly what the dems did, they would not win an election, just as they have failed to win one for the past decade at least, they were put into power by the actions of the PAD and as a result were duty bound to give cabinet positions, hence kasit, do you really thing anyone in their right mind would have this clown in a position of authority otherwise?

I already know the difference between PAD and the dems as you rightly point out but I disagree that there is just a weak connection between the PAD and the dems, the link has become more tenuous ad time has gone on but initially there was a stronger link.

the election can be called anytime, should the reds do as you have suggested then in reality is this any different to the PAD forcing opposition parties to not stand when Thaksin did the correct democratic thing and call and election before the coup.

You reap what you sew in life and everything that people accuse one colour of doing the other colour did just as bad.

I never called you a hypocrite personally so don't get so defensive, I am merely pointing pout the lack of comments about Thaksin serving his sentence from the Thaier than Thai yellow shirt posters on here since sondhi was given his sentence, hopefully this will be followed up by more when/if he gets to trial for his airport and GH takeovers.

as for the PAD being a grassroots organisation, lets be frank here, they were created because one ego maniac could not handle being cast aside by another egomaniac leading the country into freefall.

opinions are like &lt;deleted&gt; mate, we all have them and we can all get them to make different sounds

Thank you for the well-balanced and articulate comment. Greatly appreciated.

I am the OP.

Moderators, could we please close this thread ? I think it's all been said, and it seems the thread is taking on a life of it's own.....it's getting so long that there are people posting who don't realize I have resolved the issue, because they have not read all the pages.

Thanks to all for your input; there has been some very good advice.

It does seem to be an Issan custom, sometimes expected, sometimes not....according to the family involved.

Yes. A Thai custom for the first marriage only, and often returned in part or full so that the new family can start their lives together or hold it as a kind of financial security. Nevertheless, you refuse to understand Thai culture in this circumstance because it would mean accepting that your fiance and her family are trying to scam you. I wish you luck in your lives together though. One day you will understand.