way2muchcoffee

Animatic

You need to get your facts straight on your first 2 points

He was elected 2 times in consecutive elections. (whether by vote buying which is irrelevant as all the parties are corrupt and open to bribes and vote payments).

He was the duly elected Prime minister at the time of the 2006 Coup

All your other facts are irrelevant.

HRM Has no option but to sign these types of documents when presented to him (Constitutional Monarch).

K. Thaksin had called snap elections in Feb'2006, elections to be held in April 2006, invalidated and new planned for end of the year. K. Thaksin was care-taker PM till the elections in April. No idea what legal status after, but certainly not PM. He stepped down voluntarily in February after only a bit more than a year. Tactics to confuse the raising voices against his dictatorial style.

Then why have a coup??

Because a few days after stepping down he changed his mind. At this point he was a usurper because he had already resigned the position.

Do you believe civil engineers should have degrees in their field?

Read The Fountainhead by Ann Rand.

Good suggestion. That has long been on my list of required reading. It has been recommended to me many times. I simply haven't made the time to read it as there are many books that fall into the same category. I shall do so soon. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

And frankly, most [legit] things the government deals with doesn't require a degree OR does infact require a PH.D. or more in economics if you expect the MPs to themselves formulate economical theories. But we don't, we just require them to listen and chose the most applicable one.

Perhaps that is part of the problem.

Degrees are often thought absolutely necessary to those whose entire early life was centred around achieving one and not much else and completely unnecessary by those who have managed to surpass themselves without one.

I see your point. As a counterpoint though consider the following questions.

1) Do you think doctors should have a medical degree?

2) Do you believe civil engineers should have degrees in their field?

3) Would you hire a lawyer without a juris doctor?

If any of the answers to these questions are no then why would you want a person forming national policy who has no education and training in relevant areas?

As another point, the people you mention grew up in a time when a much lower percentage of the population attended university. Times have changed since then.

President Truman and PM John Major disagree with you.

So will others. I'm okay with that. Many will also agree. Such is the nature of life.

Who cares? It's just a bit of fun. Nothing more. People will still bicker. People will still come to the aid of 'allies'. People will lie, scold, manipulate, propagandize. Nothing really changes. I like it, for no other reason than it adds another dynamic to an already interesting forum.

Those Americans most conversant in the Metric system ( Weights and measure at any rate) are/were in the drug-trafficking trade.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Perhaps you are forgetting about the scientists, doctors, engineers, technicians, mechanics, etc.

Why not ???

I would love to see an impartial, detailed and thorough enquiry attaching blame and responsibility to all culpable parties and then seeking to compensate all injured parties, be they army, red or anyone else.

In my opinion such an enquiry is the correct and perhaps only way forwards and the best way of avoiding a repetition in the future.

Such an enquiry is obviously possible but clearly will not happen.

The point is that it is the Government and the authorities who do not want such an enquiry.

But then again, I doubt if they want to be formally remembered as the first in Thailand to authorise the use of snipers against civilian demonstrators.

I agree with the first part of your post. A full and transparent investigation, with teeth, would be the most effective move toward a real and lasting reconciliation.

I am not certain that a full inquiry would reveal as much as you think though. The confusing circumstances surrounding the deaths are far too complicated to unravel. In my opinion the conclusions of the inquiry would necessarily be limited.

Moreover, I am certain that the redshirts have as much to hide as the government in this matter and would fully obstruct any real inquiry, as would the military.

I know they choose the job but its very scary.

Why do politians have to hold a degree? anyone know the answer to this?

Yes. They don't. Under the present constitution there is no requirement of a university degree for an a person to be an MP.

There is a requirement of a degree for a cabinet member (minster) or the PM.

Oh, so that's ok then .

Absolutely. A minister controls important aspects of the government and the country as a whole. Without an appropriate education he cannot hope to have the knowledge to govern properly. Degrees in economics, political science, finance, history, or other similar fields are reasonable expectations to have of a person controlling the government purse strings and forming national policy.

An MP is responsible to his constituency and is a legislator. An MP is the voice of the people in his constituency, and therefore a formal degree is not necessary. This is a very different role compared with that of a minister in my opinion.

The army murdered over 90 of them - many millions are left and will never give up.

Another bullshitting pro-red propagandist. That 90-odd figure you are quick to throw around INCLUDES murdered army personnel.

Easy boy.It is a matter of record that many unarmed civilians were shot by the army.The question is how many.However in the tradition of the Thai military covering up their crimes unfortunately it seems unlikely there will ever be a credible or thorough investigation.

You can call it bullshitting red propaganda if you like but most reasonable people would just like a proper enquiry.

jayboy and insight both have it right. People were killed. The post insight objected to was exaggerated propaganda and the number of deaths Tallforeigner gave was a lie of exaggeration.

jayboy is also correct that the military will cover it's butt and any damning information they collect will likely be covered up. And reasonable people do in fact want a full and transparent investigation. We all know this won't happen because it will be done Thai style. Everyone on either side are looking to cover their collective <deleted>. That's just how it is.

I know they choose the job but its very scary.

Why do politians have to hold a degree? anyone know the answer to this?

Yes. They don't. Under the present constitution there is no requirement of a university degree for an a person to be an MP.

There is a requirement of a degree for a cabinet member (minster) or the PM.

Are we allowed to take scalps if we join the coup? I always liked lots of scalps on the pole outside my teepee. Bring me much power. Impress squaw.

You should be ashamed of yourself for that comment. Aside from it being wrong, it's downright ignorant.

Scalping was more of a Europeans practice. Both the French and British colonoial occupiers of North America introduced the practice as a means to encourage the killing of natives. The practice was also a means for the French to ensure that the local natives that were hired as mercenaries were really reporting accurate kills. The kills were not paid for unless there was evidence of the kill and this was achieved by bringing back a scalp. You don't know your Canadian history do you? The English set a bounty on scalps taken by settlers in Halifax. They also did the same in the Mohawk wars and against the Dakota nation in western Canada.

Thanks for the history lesson GK. I actually wasn't aware of that. As far as Ian is concerned I'm sure he meant no offense, though it is easy to see how what he wrote could be offensive to some.

Sand bags are messy and laborious, don't work very well and aren't a permanent solution as they disintegrate over time.

They're used all over Thailand, very common in the rainy season in areas that are prone to flooding.

All true. They would make a relatively inexpensive solution for someone who was renting though. We live in BKK. About 4 times per year we will get flooding in our moo baan that comes into the ground floor of our townhouse. There aren't any good solutions that aren't expensive and the landlord isn't interested. So we can either move or find a low-cost solution ourselves. Since moving is a major hassle and we are perfectly located here for my work and social life, sand bags come in near the top of the list.

Up in my wife's village people love eating frogs. When the rains come and the frogs come out fathers and sons will be out catching as many frogs as possible. The delectable taste makes for a welcome break from fish, pork, and chicken.

You will also see people harvesting ant eggs every night from the particular trees the ants make their homes in. I'm told the ants are somewhat sour and they are used to make a spicy sour condiment for rice that is enjoyed by all and sundry.

self deleted

Do you think my experience in the 3rd grade is relevant to my questioning the validity of your arguments, and more specifically to your labeling a post above as 'utter <deleted>'? Let me also remind you that I have already stated that my behavior with respect to children and students is perfectly in accordance with your beliefs.

With regards to ad hominem arguments, allow me to quote wikipedia

An ad hominem, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "to the man"), is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise.[1] The ad hominem is a classic logical fallacy.[2] The argumentum ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.[3]

So you can see that your objection to my labeling your question as ad hominem is invalid. Note that I did not say your argument was fallacious.

Moreover, I strongly suspect that your general question to the board was intended to discredit the validity of my posts due to some event that you imagined may have occurred in my past, but of which you had no knowledge. Do you deny it?

I think way2much was caned as a kid- don't you?

Indeed. I was struck once in the 3rd grade for beating up a 5th grader who was picking on a girl in my class. He pushed her into a mud puddle and I didn't like it. He was a bully and I felt compelled to put a stop to his actions.

My mother was a fire inspector with friends in city hall and she marched down to the school and made it clear to the principal that if he ever laid a hand on me again she would ensure that he never worked as a school administrator again. In the next year the state I was living in made corporal punishment illegal.

Are you satisfied?

I would suggest that the question you posed to the board was a veiled ad hominem attack on me. Perhaps you could use reasoned argument in the future.

Oh really ? Why he so at defensive ?

Is his conscience hurting ?

Killing innocents periodically just to justify a continued reign of terror and blame the opposition for that...

If I were to call you a pedophile would you not be defensive?

Being defensive against an untrue accusation is not an indication of guilt.

I'm not angry - this will hurt me more than it'll hurt you.......yeah, right!

Is it so hard to believe that others, in perfectly good faith, had beliefs that differed from yours and then acted properly in accordance with their beliefs, and completely without malice?

"as practiced in the schools of yore, was NOT in anger. No good headmaster ever caned a student in anger. It was a well-considered and stern act of disciplining. " - utter <deleted>!

I believe he said "No good headmaster..."

This does not mean that there were no bad headmasters who did cane students in anger. If I am not mistaken this means that the poster believes good headmasters used caning as a disciplinary tool. Implicit in this is that the good headmasters thought that caning is both appropriate and effective in curbing antisocial behaviors.

You may well have a different opinion. I do not deny that your opinions on this matter could very well be true. But your knee-jerk reaction is noted.

I give a bit more credibility to the people of the Nelson Mandela Foundation than to the people of the Nation and the Thaksin haters (hence people who work for the government or on government projects) on this forum:

Indeed. Every person on Earth (or on this forum) who does not support Thaksin is indeed on government payroll. How could it be otherwise?

self deleted

"But there were signs after the Economic Cabinet meeting that the Bhum Jai Thai Party was not happy with the high-speed train project. The prime minister had to try to clear it up with Bhum Jai Thai. As a result, the brakes were put on high-speed train proposal on the following Tuesday. Abhisit gave an interview saying that the Transport Ministry instead would propose the project next Tuesday (September 7)," a Cabinet source said.

To what party does the Transport Minister belong? The Bhum Jai Thai party, by any chance? I can't find it with a Google search.

The Transport Minister is named Sophon. He is a BJT member.

Coup poo. Why have a coup when they had one in May.....emergency degree, bulging military budgets, censorship gone mad......all the pluses without the international minuses of saying it was a coup.

Almost. We did have an attempted coup that resulted in the burning, pillaging, and rape of Bangkok. Fortunately the marauders were stopped and the damage contained.

Makes perfect sense. Develop a system that triples the commute time for hundreds of thousands while halving it for tens of thousands.