way2muchcoffee

Well, what's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Difficult question. I haven't decided on a final position in this matter. Personally, I won't use any form of corporal punishment on a child ever, so my sympathies lean heavily toward this position. But at the same time I am not convinced that banning corporal punishment is the only correct position to hold.

Interesting thought carvets - Do you suggest that we should enforce the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

What's your thought on that matter? Do we enforce or fight the violence in those children by imposing more violence on them?

Interesting point. Isn't that what we do with adults? Incarcerating someone is violent. Prisons are violent places. Perhaps we should just talk kindly to the and hope they will change.

I live on one of these lines. I am opposed to the whole notion. It doubles or triples a commute time for perhaps 200,000 people while only helping 20,000. Stupid idea for a city like Bangkok, notorious for terrible traffic and the low percentage of street-covered surface area.

way2muchcoffee, Your response was excellent and well presented. And yet I must respectfully, disagree with you.... Not, with what you directly said which, from an historical and even present day perspective, cannot be denied.

But, in respect of violence against kids, what matters is how we go from here. it's about building the future. Do we really want to continue to be as the savages of past, and inflict violence against others just accepting our instinctual urges ? We cannot deny having violent urges, but we sure as can, as a society, and as individuals seek to find more constructive ways to resolve our differences without violence, whether in the classroom or beyond.

I hope attitudes towards the acceptance of using violence against each other do change for the better, at the very least on an inter-personal level. Idealistic ? Quite possibly, but it's got to start somewhere. Please consider how, as modern societies, our attitudes have changed for the positive against slavery, apartheid, gay bashing to name just a few. We can collectively change our views about what's acceptable in our societies. When it comes to physical child abuse, irrespective of our primal instincts, I already say NO !

I agree with everything you've written. I am a teacher with 12 years of classroom experience. I have never hit a child and I never will. Also my wife and I became guardians for my wife's 3 1/2 year old niece about a month ago. This girl will never be hit again, at least not by us.

We have no children of our own and we hope to be able to provide the stable and nurturing environment that this girl never had. I refuse to use physical punishment with her and have convinced my wife not to as well.

I guess I just find it offensive when people are labeled as 'sick' or 'deranged' when they are acting in ways that are perfectly natural, even when those actions are no longer considered 'normal' or acceptable.

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

Actually it is you who appears to have the behavioral problem. Your beliefs are predicated on the outright denial that humans are by their very nature violent. This violence gets stamped out by society in most people, but it is there in all of us. It simmers under the surface of political correctness - contained, constrained, repressed, ignored, rejected. It rebels at the strictures of modern society. It is pathological to deny these basic facts.

Kids understand violence as do adults. All humans do, along with the animals. Pain equals bad. Pain equals don't repeat the behavior that brought it about. You claim to know all the answers. You vilify those who do not believe as you do. And yet your answers are only found in the modern psychology and education theory unleashed on the world in the last several decades. The world isn't much better now than it was in the past, only people today deny their natural instincts to an extent unimaginable even to our most recent ancestors.

These theories are also highly self-serving in that they only apply when the overall goal is socialization and forcing people to ignore, deny, and repress their violent nature. So yes, if the goal is to produce an unnatural child in an unnatural environment (which in the end we all must do) then the conclusions of modern psychology are relevant.

No matter what society and psychology tells us, people are still humans. We harbor violent tendencies. We respond to violence and learn from it as well. This is not about a behavioral disorder in any way. It is the natural way that humans have lived for tens of thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands.

Please understand, I am not in any way condoning the teacher's actions. Those actions are illegal. Laws are a forced agreement imposed upon all members of any society. Laws exist to protect us from the natural inclinations of other people and from our own natural inclinations. For a smooth functioning society laws are necessary. This teacher knew the societal rules and, arguably, violated them. There are consequences for such violations. But this does not mean that the teacher was in any way sick or deranged. He simply utilized the behavior modification methods he learned as a child. He is also quite likely to have witnessed the caning of students by many of his peers, due to the prevalence of corporal punishment in schools here. He probably believed he was doing the right thing.

Sounds as if you are overreacting here, but I suspect what you have posted comes after a lengthy list of other things that have happened where you feel unappreciated and taken advantage of. All I can suggest is to set your boundaries and stick to them. Communicate your feelings with your wife. Take time for yourself. And hope for the best.

I find this kind of punishment in the 21st century absolutely outrageous, it could almost have been a scene from Dickens ' Bleak House '. Now, if you really want to put the fear of God into the little monkeys.......... show them the taser !!!

I'm not sure the tazer would faze them. I once walked into an M6 classroom after a break to find a group of boys taking turns tazering each other in the 'family jewels'. They seemed to be enjoying themselves as it was all smiles and laughter. Obviously I put a stop to it, but I couldn't help but chuckle. Boys will be boys.

no sympathy for smokers whatsoever....I think they should all be made to buy a smoking permit at 10,000 baht/year for locals or tourists 10,000 baht per entry into Thailand......anyone without a permit gets fined 100,000 baht ......use the fees to help build schools and other infrastructure

Yep. Then we will need to initiate an alcohol permit, a sugary food or beverage permit, a fatty foods permit, a foul smelling food permit, a 'gassy' food permit, and what the heck we should charge 100,000 per instance for anyone using any form of motorized transport.

In the UK if you hand in "found" items to the police they will

be returned to you if not claimed within 3 months............

1. Money is hard to identify.

2. Does the Thai police have the same procedure.

I suspect that if the Thai police did have such a policy you would find that 100% of all items turned in would be claimed by their 'rightful owner'.

Yes I think one needs to.Most of us would agree that the Thai security forces need more training to deal with instances of civil disorder.That's not I think seriously disputed.The other issue however is the complete lack of accountability when things do go wrong.

This lack of accountability is endemic here in Thailand. It seems nobody is ever guilty of anything. Nobody is ever mistaken. Nobody is responsible.

I partly agree with you.Where I disagree is that I think a more professional approach could have cleared the area without deaths or even serious injury.The problem you correctly identify was to allow the situation to fester and become too prolonged.Once again the precedent was set by the yellow demonstrations.Be that as it may the fact remains that the deaths of unarmed civilians will never be properly investigated in Thailand when the security forces are involved.In other countries this would carry a political price.In Thailand it still might but one doubts it somehow.

I agree with the bulk of what you say here.

We will have to disagree on our speculation about the ability of a trained force to disperse an armed and violent mob without death or serious injury. I do agree that a specially trained force would done the job with significantly fewer casualties.

Kudos to the man for following his passion. On the negative side, the way he phrased his comments regarding Americans of mixed ethnic background sounds a bit racist to me.

100 bt and up I would pocket it. I would make a show of picking it up. I would hold it visibly and look around to see if anyone had dropped it. If nobody looked in my direction I would put it in my wallet and walk away.

JohnLeech, I think you are mistaken on a number of points.

Schooling above high school level is way beyond most financially.

Not true. Student loans are available all and sundry. There is no financial requirement for parents. A rajabhat or rajamangala costs very little and the debt burden would not be high for graduate. Universities are a little more expensive, but not exorbitantly so. The loan scheme is there for all who are willing to borrow for their education and future.

Universal health care is only available to tax-payers.

Not true at all. Universal health care is available to every Thai citizen whether they pay taxes or not. You are misinformed.

The 30 baht (yellow card) scheme is strictly limited not only in what it covers but, more importantly, where it can be used - it only provides cover in the area where the card is issued and the holder resident.

Not true. The card can be used at any government or military hospital in the country. Under the 30-bt Thaksin scheme what you are saying was true. However, this has been changed under the current government.

The one thing that Thailand doesn't do that could make a huge difference to less well off people is to provide a state pension for the elderly.

They do this already, though the sum is a meager 500 bt per month. It is also provided to disabled people.

I have to think that growing up in BKK or at least the doing high school at ISB would definitely impact underage drinking as well as prescription drug abuse. So sad and tragic, and actually surprising common story when you look closely at the international school scene here in BKK

It does tend to fall on the parenting. Note that the children from certain ethnic groups (Korean, Indian, and to a lesser extent Japanese) tend to avoid these pitfalls of modern teen life. Westerners and Thais tend to be the most heavily involved in drink and drugs.

This is not to say that Nicole was in any way a wayward child. My condolences go out to the family in this truly difficult time.

That English Teacher salary sure looks better now, doesn't it!

Sorry, but I remember the smug eeejots who laughed at teachers. Seems if the Dollar tanks, they are going to be the new arristocracy! 555+

im sure the schools will find an excuse to cut their salary regardless of enrollment rates.

I doubt it. You may be surprised to know that some EPs in Thai schools (not counting the international schools) pay as much as 100,000 bt/month after you have been there a bit. That is more than starting teacher pay in many western nations, even more so at current exchange rates.

Everyone's a wannabe Herashio these days. Crime busting lark all looks so easy. Some people seem to think it really is.

The fact remains that if the murder of civilians on this scale (with the security forces involved) had occurred in Tokyo,London,Washington or Paris the investigation would be well under way and would have credibility.

Here nobody in power gives a toss.They were only rough peasants after all.

Perhaps. But you also know that the kind of demonstration that the redshirts engaged in, armed and n defiance of the law, would have been dispersed within a day or two. The dispersal would have been completed by police forces trained to do this. There would have been injuries, and possibly deaths. And had the demonstrators used their weapons on the police forces there most certainly would have been many deaths amongst the protesters. And yes, these deaths would have been thoroughly investigated.

Jayboy - How about addressing the lies pointed out above instead of throwing up a red herring to divert attention.

Bitching about Amsterdam or Jatuporn or to discuss Bout and that strange question by his visitor MP Sirichoke? Or the records vs. tapes issue, Goebbels vs. eastern philosophy? What is the red herring here?

Please read the posts above. You will see that jayboy didn't bother to respond to the catalog of Amsterdam's lies presented.

This is one of the reasons why the USA is described as an insular Country is the low ownership of Passports.

I believe the figures (I am sure someone can come up with them) are around 30% of the population for USA Citizens who hold Passports and around 90% for British Citizens who hold passports.

Consider the typical American. There are only two countries bordering the US. Many US citizens have been to one or the other of these. To reach any other country is very expensive as one needs to travel some 5-15,000 km. Heck, you have to travel nearly nearly 5,000 km from from Washington state to reach Florida. In between are many many interesting holiday venues, natural wonders, and places of interest. It is no wonder most Americans choose to explore the US first.

Now consider a typical European. Europe has loads of countries all within easy reach of each other by train or a short plane trip. To visit Germany from the UK is about 1000 km. This distance won't even get you halfway across the US. This situation makes any comparison between the travel habits of Americans and Europeans somewhat ridiculous.

Alla Bout was reading that Sirichoke asked Viktor Bout for his advice on how to "intercept" Dr. Shinawatra's airplane and how to catch him. Later the translator specified that the Russian word Viktor Bout used for "intercept" also has the meaning of shooting down an aircraft.

This is inconsistent. If intercept was meant to be shooting down, why questions about how to 'catch' Thaksin? Catch means to bring him into custody. Intercept means to find and force to the ground.

Mountains and molehills. Biases abound. Propaganda from every side is designed to confuse.

Perhaps term limits have have been abandoned, and maybe this is the source of the confusion.

Someone who knows the answer definitively will probably find this thread and clear it up for us.

I think you are mistaken. There is a mandatory retirement age, but regular elections are still held for the village head positions, at least in my wife's part of the country.

Do you have any links or other verifiable information to support your assertion that village head positions are now 'for life'? This doesn't sound right.

Elections in my wife's village are held every 4 years. There are no term limits though. So a popular pu yai baan could be reelected as many times as the village appreciates his leadership, up until he reaches 60 years old.

It happened to me once here. I withdrew 10,000 from an atm. The transaction never showed up. I figured that there was a glitch and it would eventually catch up with me, but it never did. Don't know how it happened. I never asked about it.